Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Voting RFC votes closed
*BUMP* It would be really helpful if we could find consensus on this… I feel like the RFC process is stalled until these questions are answered. S On 2011-06-27, at 9:06 PM, Sean Coates wrote: The RFC was accepted. Ok; so is this official now, or does it need to be ratified somehow? If I clean up my RFC (https://wiki.php.net/rfc/objectarrayliterals) and put it to vote, are these now the rules that will be followed? Since I didn't use [RFC] in the original email to internals, do I need to start from the start? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Voting RFC votes closed
hi Sean, In any case I would do it anyway. Whether it can make it to 5.4 or not is another question and I can't give you an answer. But doing it anyway will finally clear this point. We have to re do the short array syntax as well. From my side it will be a -1 as I really don't think having json syntax is a good thing. For the object, why not, but I would love to have a way to do it for all kind of classes, not only stdclass :) But that should be another thread :) On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Sean Coates s...@seancoates.com wrote: *BUMP* It would be really helpful if we could find consensus on this… I feel like the RFC process is stalled until these questions are answered. S On 2011-06-27, at 9:06 PM, Sean Coates wrote: The RFC was accepted. Ok; so is this official now, or does it need to be ratified somehow? If I clean up my RFC (https://wiki.php.net/rfc/objectarrayliterals) and put it to vote, are these now the rules that will be followed? Since I didn't use [RFC] in the original email to internals, do I need to start from the start? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Voting RFC votes closed
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote:
hi Sean,
In any case I would do it anyway.
Whether it can make it to 5.4 or not is another question and I can't
give you an answer. But doing it anyway will finally clear this point.
We have to re do the short array syntax as well.
From my side it will be a -1 as I really don't think having json
syntax is a good thing. For the object, why not, but I would love to
have a way to do it for all kind of classes, not only stdclass :) But
that should be another thread :)
Although I like sean's RFC doc my two cents is:
We already have inline array syntax with array( .. ) wrapped around
it. I still wouldn't mind the [ ... ] syntax.
For stdclass objects we have nothing like this, and would be happy to
see the object literals idea pushed forward even if the array one is
rejected. The wrapper syntax proposed by sean is { ... } just like JS,
however to be consistent with array() I wouldn't mind seeing $o =
object( ) just like $a = array( ... )
Overall, I'm with sean, but wanted to give my opinion on what we
already have and to push the idea of object(...)
Thanks,
Paul Dragoonis.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Sean Coates s...@seancoates.com wrote:
*BUMP*
It would be really helpful if we could find consensus on this… I feel like
the RFC process is stalled until these questions are answered.
S
On 2011-06-27, at 9:06 PM, Sean Coates wrote:
The RFC was accepted.
Ok; so is this official now, or does it need to be ratified somehow?
If I clean up my RFC (https://wiki.php.net/rfc/objectarrayliterals) and put
it to vote, are these now the rules that will be followed?
Since I didn't use [RFC] in the original email to internals, do I need to
start from the start?
--
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Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Voting RFC votes closed
On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 11:15 -0400, Sean Coates wrote: *BUMP* It would be really helpful if we could find consensus on this… I feel like the RFC process is stalled until these questions are answered. I'm not the one who decides this. My personal opinion is that the rules do not apply for RFCs older than the voting and releaseprocess RFC. When the RFC was written and proposed the voting RFC was not accepted and therefore you might have written the RFCs with the intention of following a different way to get it accepted. We cannot apply approved RFCs to older RFCs. This is similar to laws (although RFCs are not laws or anything like that at all). Long story short: you can go on with the RFC the way you want, you don't have to stick to the voting RFC, but I would rather recommend to do it anyway. I personally don't have a problem with not sending the RFC mail again to internals. Just my 50ct S On 2011-06-27, at 9:06 PM, Sean Coates wrote: The RFC was accepted. Ok; so is this official now, or does it need to be ratified somehow? If I clean up my RFC (https://wiki.php.net/rfc/objectarrayliterals) and put it to vote, are these now the rules that will be followed? Since I didn't use [RFC] in the original email to internals, do I need to start from the start? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Voting RFC votes closed
Hi, the voting for the Voting RFC is closed. Results can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote The RFC was accepted. David -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Voting RFC votes closed
The RFC was accepted. Ok; so is this official now, or does it need to be ratified somehow? If I clean up my RFC (https://wiki.php.net/rfc/objectarrayliterals) and put it to vote, are these now the rules that will be followed? Since I didn't use [RFC] in the original email to internals, do I need to start from the start? S -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
I agree that part is uncomfortably vague. To use me as an example, I've been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself. However, I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list. While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal. That probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal representative to this list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-) I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy list. So... would we get a say or not? :-) --Larry Garfield On 06/21/2011 03:52 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: We thought there was no need to over regulate this part. It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option? Contribute! :-) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks arvids.godj...@gmail.com wrote: That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь Philip Olsonphi...@roshambo.org написал: -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
2011/6/23 Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com: I agree that part is uncomfortably vague. To use me as an example, I've been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself. However, I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list. While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal. That probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal representative to this list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-) I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy list. So... would we get a say or not? :-) --Larry Garfield On 06/21/2011 03:52 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: We thought there was no need to over regulate this part. It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option? Contribute! :-) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks arvids.godj...@gmail.com wrote: That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь Philip Olsonphi...@roshambo.org написал: Whilst it may be democratic to allow 1 person 1 vote, I would honestly hope that my vote, as a non-core developer, would count less then say, Zeev or Rasmus. Simply because my bread and butter is NOT in the core and my understanding of the finer points may (and in all honestly will be) lost to me. Until I can prove to the community a clear understanding and provable technical ability to affect core without completely breaking everything, then it would be unfair to pollute the vote, but my vote should still be recorded at a secondary level. Maybe as an interested party. The main vote has to be amongst those capable of effecting the change. At least in principle by having php-src karma if a major language change or pecl karma for pecl+core related changes. Maybe there should be some different voting criteria, or the ability to create a specific voting criteria per vote. Internal only (something that won't affect userland code - a new memory manager or a significant change in internal mechanisms) Affects PECL (a change in the core that will have an impact on multiple PECL extensions) Userland Change (something that will alter an existing feature - obviously, this could be a BC). Userland Enhancement / New Feature (something that will work in a new version of PHP - possible name collision to existing userland code). -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
2011/6/23 Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com: I agree that part is uncomfortably vague. To use me as an example, I've been on this list for a few years, post periodically but not super-frequently, and haven't written any C code for PHP itself. However, I'm one of only two people from the Drupal project I know of on this list. While I'm not the project lead (he isn't on this list), I'm one of the leading developers, such as it is in an amorphous project like Drupal. That probably makes me the closest there is to a Drupal representative to this list, given that Drupal doesn't officialize much of anything. :-) As I said in my reply, it is not always necessary to over regulate something. And for your case, it is pretty easy to find developers to second you (you have one with me already). Same from me for a couple of other drupal devs active in bugs (be bugs.php.net or pecl), for example. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
Hi! 2011/6/23 Larry Garfieldla...@garfieldtech.com: I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy list. So... would we get a say or not? :-) You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important - it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing people's opinions. Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core developers and broader community. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.comwrote: Hi! 2011/6/23 Larry Garfieldlarry@garfieldtech.**comla...@garfieldtech.com : I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy list. So... would we get a say or not? :-) You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important - it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing people's opinions. Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core developers and broader community. anybody can register on the wiki, so I think you should clarify on that part. Tyrael
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Ferenc Kovacs tyr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.comwrote: Hi! 2011/6/23 Larry Garfieldlarry@garfieldtech.**comla...@garfieldtech.com : I'm sure there are other projects with a vested interest whose people don't know C well enough to engage in most conversations on this frequently busy list. So... would we get a say or not? :-) You have a say - you did that right now on the list :) However, in a company there's a difference between company's customers, employees and management, and though PHP is a volunteer and rather informal project, I think there are some decisions that should be taken by people that have good understanding of all effects and consequences of it and that will actually be bound by it. That doesn't mean the opinion of others is not important - it is important, and we have the list exactly for discussing and hearing people's opinions. Current voting system allows 2 levels of vote - anybody can vote or only people with wiki account (which is roughly equal to php/pecl committer account, though not exactly) can vote. Depending on the question, we can use the appropriate voting mode or even have 2 votes in parallel - for core developers and broader community. anybody can register on the wiki, so I think you should clarify on that part. Again, not everybody can vote. It has been explained enough already. This is clear. There may be a config issue if a registered user can vote but that's fixable (as not being a svn authenticated user). -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:52:31 +0200, Pierre Joye wrote: We thought there was no need to over regulate this part. It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option? Contribute! :-) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks arvids.godj...@gmail.com wrote: That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org написал: I think the main point is that with a wiki account, you can technically vote. Filtering must be done afterwards. Checking svn account would be easy but verifying each time internals discussions will be painful. But perhaps there's already some sort of ACL on the wiki which handle the vote submitting in which case ignore my comment ;-) Bruno -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
Hi! Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in the page with rfc? Under the block Table of contents, for example. Just now green link Votes are open is not so noticeable, so having a chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to take part in voting process. 2011/6/20 David Soria Parra d...@php.net: Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Thank you David -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Regards, Shein Alexey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now. On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Alexey Shein con...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in the page with rfc? Under the block Table of contents, for example. Just now green link Votes are open is not so noticeable, so having a chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to take part in voting process. 2011/6/20 David Soria Parra d...@php.net: Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Thank you David -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Regards, Shein Alexey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
2011/6/21 Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com: added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now. Thank you. But why not just place doodle plugin in the bottom of the page with rfc? This will give some chances that people will read rfc till the end before voting. What's the idea behind keeping 2 separate pages for rfc and voting? On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Alexey Shein con...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! Wouldn't it be better if wiki voting mechanism would be embedded in the page with rfc? Under the block Table of contents, for example. Just now green link Votes are open is not so noticeable, so having a chance to vote without leaving the page would better inspire people to take part in voting process. 2011/6/20 David Soria Parra d...@php.net: Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Thank you David -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Regards, Shein Alexey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- Regards, Shein Alexey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Alexey Shein con...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/6/21 Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com: added a link to the vote page. It should be more clear now. Thank you. But why not just place doodle plugin in the bottom of the page with rfc? This will give some chances that people will read rfc till the end before voting. What's the idea behind keeping 2 separate pages for rfc and voting? Find nicer and clearer on a separate page, but it could be done on the same page too... Not that it is that important we should not change it now. -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
On Jun 20, 2011, at 5:15 AM, David Soria Parra wrote: Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Please clarify the who can vote aspect of this RFC, which is: The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting process: * People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP * Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those with php.net SVN accounts * Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.) * regular participant of internals discussions Does this mean that a php.net account holder must have 1+ commits? How are Lead developers determined exactly? Do they nominate themselves? Does each name require an official vote with a two week waiting period? And what's a regular participant of internal discussions? One post per week/month/year? And only the internals@lists.php.net mailing list applies? I voted against this RFC partly because the above is not clear. Regards, Philip -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org написал: On Jun 20, 2011, at 5:15 AM, David Soria Parra wrote: Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Please clarify the who can vote aspect of this RFC, which is: The proposal here is for two audiences to participate in the voting process: * People with php.net SVN accounts that have contributed code to PHP * Representatives from the PHP community, that will be chosen by those with php.net SVN accounts * Lead developers of PHP based projects (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.) * regular participant of internals discussions Does this mean that a php.net account holder must have 1+ commits? How are Lead developers determined exactly? Do they nominate themselves? Does each name require an official vote with a two week waiting period? And what's a regular participant of internal discussions? One post per week/month/year? And only the internals@lists.php.net mailing list applies? I voted against this RFC partly because the above is not clear. Regards, Philip -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
We thought there was no need to over regulate this part. It is something like mentors, if you just come in, post a couple of times or daily but nobody can second you and you lead zero OSS project, then the chance that you can vote will be rather low. Your option? Contribute! :-) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Arvids Godjuks arvids.godj...@gmail.com wrote: That really neads clearing, because if i understand correctly, I should get ability to vote (userland developer activly reading the list and writing to list on some maters). So the question - do i get a vote ability? :-) 21.06.2011 17:36 пользователь Philip Olson phi...@roshambo.org написал: -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] [VOTE] voting rfc
Hi Internals, we have been working on getting an rfc together on how to deal with votes on rfcs. We aim to provide a simple mechaism for votes while still maintaining freedom on how to do votes and how to work on rfcs. I want to move forward on the voting and release RFCs, so we can move forward on the 5.4 process. Therefore I call for votes on the voting RFC. The RFC can be found here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting You can vote here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting/vote Votes are open until Monday 27.06.2011. Thank you David -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
