Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Kamil Tekiela wrote: >>Do you think there is still demand for such error mode control features? >> >>Personally, I've never seen anyone prefer silent mode, so I think it's worth >>making the drastic change. > > This may be right. There isn't a demand for this in **new** code and I > doubt anyone would come forward with a reason to use silent mode now. > However the purpose of keeping this mode is to enable old legacy code > to run without major refactoring. This is the practice coming from the > days before PHP 5 when using exceptions wasn't common. Plenty of > applications are still running code designed 20 years ago because PHP > keeps as much backward compatibility as possible. The code would > benefit from modernization, but this would require a lot of effort > from its maintainers. > > We may get away with deprecating and removing PDO silent/warning mode > because it's an extension that was introduced in PHP 5 and everyone > was on board with using exception mode. We probably cannot remove > silent mode for other extensions that either mimic older extensions > that didn't use exceptions (e.g. mysqli) or have been introduced > before PHP 5. The reason is that people designed their code using > silent mode and removing it now would cause some serious headaches. > > Another point to consider is that PDO had silent mode as default for a > long time. You may be surprised, but many people weren't aware that it > can throw exceptions. My guess is that's a very small proportion of > all projects though. With PHP 8.0, they just slapped one line of code > and called it a day. Having said that, I think removing PDO's silent > mode is possible soon, even in PHP 9.0, but we may anger some people. > > All warning modes can be deprecated in PHP 8.4 and removed in PHP 9.0. > Silent mode of other extensions should be carefully reviewed one by > one. Deprecation in PHP 9.0 and removal in PHP 10.0 might be a better > option. I would also be fine with deprecating and removing the old/useless error modes, but only if there's a long enough deprecation period. I question if 8.4->9 would be sufficient. I'd be more comfortable with deprecating them now and removing in 10. --Larry Garfield -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
> We may get away with deprecating and removing PDO silent/warning mode because > it's an extension that was introduced in PHP 5 and everyone was on board with > using exception mode. We probably cannot remove silent mode for other > extensions that either mimic older extensions that didn't use exceptions > (e.g. mysqli) or have been introduced before PHP 5. The reason is that people > designed their code using silent mode and removing it now would cause some > serious headaches. > Another point to consider is that PDO had silent mode as default for a long > time. You may be surprised, but many people weren't aware that it can throw > exceptions. My guess is that's a very small proportion of all projects though. > With PHP 8.0, they just slapped one line of code and called it a day. Having > said that, I think removing PDO's silent mode is possible soon, even in PHP > 9.0, but we may anger some people. > All warning modes can be deprecated in PHP 8.4 and removed in PHP 9.0. > Silent mode of other extensions should be carefully reviewed one by one. > Deprecation in PHP 9.0 and removal in PHP 10.0 might be a better option. I see. Certainly, it seems necessary to consider the silent mode of other extensions enough. Agree. This was originally a proposal to solve the situation where PDO's error mode behavior was not well maintained. There are problems such as warnings being displayed even in silent mode, and correct information not being obtained using PDO::errorInfo. It seems like a good option would be to keep all silent modes and deprecate warning mode in 8.4 and remove it in 9.x. And it seems good to fix PDO's silent mode bug in 8.4. What do you think? Regards. Saki -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
>Do you think there is still demand for such error mode control features? > >Personally, I've never seen anyone prefer silent mode, so I think it's worth >making the drastic change. This may be right. There isn't a demand for this in **new** code and I doubt anyone would come forward with a reason to use silent mode now. However the purpose of keeping this mode is to enable old legacy code to run without major refactoring. This is the practice coming from the days before PHP 5 when using exceptions wasn't common. Plenty of applications are still running code designed 20 years ago because PHP keeps as much backward compatibility as possible. The code would benefit from modernization, but this would require a lot of effort from its maintainers. We may get away with deprecating and removing PDO silent/warning mode because it's an extension that was introduced in PHP 5 and everyone was on board with using exception mode. We probably cannot remove silent mode for other extensions that either mimic older extensions that didn't use exceptions (e.g. mysqli) or have been introduced before PHP 5. The reason is that people designed their code using silent mode and removing it now would cause some serious headaches. Another point to consider is that PDO had silent mode as default for a long time. You may be surprised, but many people weren't aware that it can throw exceptions. My guess is that's a very small proportion of all projects though. With PHP 8.0, they just slapped one line of code and called it a day. Having said that, I think removing PDO's silent mode is possible soon, even in PHP 9.0, but we may anger some people. All warning modes can be deprecated in PHP 8.4 and removed in PHP 9.0. Silent mode of other extensions should be carefully reviewed one by one. Deprecation in PHP 9.0 and removal in PHP 10.0 might be a better option. Regards, Kamil -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
> However, if we are going to remove it, it would be nice to have this done > consistently across all bundled extensions. Thank you for confirmation. This is probably not technically difficult, but it does increase the scope of change. However, as you say, the specifications should be unified. Do you think there is still demand for such error mode control features? Personally, I've never seen anyone prefer silent mode, so I think it's worth making the drastic change. regards. Saki -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 14:52, Saki Takamachi wrote: > Hi, internals. > > I thought about various things to improve the current situation where > `PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE` is not working very smartly. > > Exceptions may be thrown regardless of the setting of `PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE`. > https://www.php.net/manual/en/pdo.rollback.php#refsect1-pdo.rollback-errors > > Another annoyance is that `PDO::ERRMODE_SILENT` sometimes gives a warning. > This is an undocumented phenomenon, and it's a 19-year-old vintage bug. > > https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/223fb08819967b3063610289a5783944a85d6d65/ext/pdo/pdo_dbh.c#L74 > > Based on these, I feel that the reliability of the attribute value > PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE is low and there is not much meaning in its existence as > an attribute value. > > Since the default behavior became `PDO::ERRMODE_EXCEPTION` in PHP8.0.0, I > think it would be better to abolish it rather than leave it halfway. > > I think this is a big change, so I'm assuming 9.x+ even if it's > implemented. > I will do the implementation myself. > > Please let me know what you think. > Thank you. > > Saki > I don't know about removing the silent mode altogether, but I think the warning version is pretty useless. However, if we are going to remove it, it would be nice to have this done consistently across all bundled extensions. >From the top of my head, I know SQLite3 and the Intl extension also have such flags, and possibly the DOM extension too. Best regards. George P. Banyard
Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
Does anyone have any opinions regarding this matter? If there is no response after waiting for a certain period of time, I will start preparing an RFC. Saki -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Deprecate PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE [Proposed RFC]
Hi, internals. I thought about various things to improve the current situation where `PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE` is not working very smartly. Exceptions may be thrown regardless of the setting of `PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE`. https://www.php.net/manual/en/pdo.rollback.php#refsect1-pdo.rollback-errors Another annoyance is that `PDO::ERRMODE_SILENT` sometimes gives a warning. This is an undocumented phenomenon, and it's a 19-year-old vintage bug. https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/223fb08819967b3063610289a5783944a85d6d65/ext/pdo/pdo_dbh.c#L74 Based on these, I feel that the reliability of the attribute value PDO::ATTR_ERRMODE is low and there is not much meaning in its existence as an attribute value. Since the default behavior became `PDO::ERRMODE_EXCEPTION` in PHP8.0.0, I think it would be better to abolish it rather than leave it halfway. I think this is a big change, so I'm assuming 9.x+ even if it's implemented. I will do the implementation myself. Please let me know what you think. Thank you. Saki -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
