[PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Andi Gutmans schrieb: Hi, I thought I may have brought this up a long time ago but couldn't find anything in the archives. For a long time already I've been thinking about possibly adding a new syntax for array(...) which would be shorter. I'd suggest [...]. While I am usually not in favor of having more than one way to do things, I think it'd look much more elegant especially (but not only) for nested arrays. So what I'm thinking of is: array(1, 2, 3) == [1, 2, 3] array(1, 2, array(foo, bar)) == [1, 2, [foo, bar]] array(key = 1, key2 = 2) == [key = 1, key2 = 2] $arr = [1, 2, 3] vs. $arr = array(1, 2, 3) Well enough examples given :) I think it's not worth doing unless there's overwhelming support as it's not desperately needed. But I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. It seems implementation shouldn't be an issue but I'd have to dive a bit deeper. Andi Well, this discussion is really a stupid discussion. Obviously, there are some people, who likes this syntax ( in list() and array() form) but there are some people, who dislike it. But I have to ask: what's the matter. A good programming language should not force the developer to program as the language wants. A good programming language should support the developer in writing code he likes, the way he likes. Of course there could be problems with new developers. But the question is: is this relevant? - Should php as programming language only provide one syntax only because new developers could have problems (or not, I don't think, that would be a great problem, because in other languages, this syntax is already usable). - Should php only support one syntax so that every code is easier to maintain (if this is your only problem with foreign code, you are a really lucky guy!) It don't think so: PHP is a good language, but writing code in PHP is sometimes awful. This could be improved by an alternative syntax. This could help new developers who are coming from another language. This could make coding funnier for some developers. So: what's the matter? The idea of [] does not harm existent code. Everyone who does not like this syntax can avoid it in his code. But please don't tell others how they have to write their code! Let them write! Mathias -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Mathias Bank wrote: It don't think so: PHP is a good language, but writing code in PHP is sometimes awful. This could be improved by an alternative syntax. This could help new developers who are coming from another language. This could make coding funnier for some developers. Alternative syntax is what makes reading someone else's Perl code funny ... ;( So: what's the matter? The idea of [] does not harm existent code. Everyone who does not like this syntax can avoid it in his code. But please don't tell others how they have to write their code! Let them write! This violates a simple but important principle: The burden shall be on the writer, not the readers. As long as you write code all by yourself and never share it in any way your argument may hold true. The very second your code needs to be read or even maintained by others alternative syntax choices quickly become a nightmare. So you have to agree on one form or the other and add yet another item to your coding style rules list. So you even have to bother *more* about telling others (or yourself) how to write code than you had to with only one syntax alternative. As a matter of taste i do prefer the [] alternative over the current array()/list() approach. But we can't get rid of array() or list() any time soon, even if we would decide to deprecate them now in favor of []. So we're stuck with them and the nicer syntax does not justify the can of worms opened by introducing an alternative syntax for an already existing feature. So if we were designing PHP today i'd be all for [] and [] only, but as things are my vote is mostly against it even though i sort of like the syntax. So from my side a -0.8 -- Hartmut Holzgraefe, Senior Support Engineer. MySQL AB, www.mysql.com -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
But I have to ask: what's the matter. A good programming language should not force the developer to program as the language wants. A good programming language should support the developer in writing code he likes, the way he likes. So, you are new to php internal huh? =) Seriously, the language can not be adapted to every whim of every developer. Adding several ways to do things was fine when PHP was a neat tool to mess around with. Now people's paychecks depend on it. IMO, it's a slippery slope to just add things because you can. This could be improved by an alternative syntax. Ah, but not all see it as an improvement. Peronsally, every time I see this type of syntax in perl or javascript, I cringe. Luckily I don't do much perl. When I see it in JS, I change it. The funny thing is that Andi probably could have just commited this to the PHP6 tree and made an announcement. There would have been ~4 replies and it would have been over with. -- Brian Moon - http://dealnews.com/ It's good to be cheap =) -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
I for one cringe when I see list(), and I'd love to see [$a, $b] = array(...) become an alternative to that. Can't say I care that much about an alternative syntax for dealing with array creation, but I wouldn't mind. [] already suggests array, and I guess existing developers will have no problem picking it up. Newbies would bump into the docs just as they currently bump into the array section. I don't see how an addition like this could affect people's paychecks. V Brian Moon wrote: But I have to ask: what's the matter. A good programming language should not force the developer to program as the language wants. A good programming language should support the developer in writing code he likes, the way he likes. So, you are new to php internal huh? =) Seriously, the language can not be adapted to every whim of every developer. Adding several ways to do things was fine when PHP was a neat tool to mess around with. Now people's paychecks depend on it. IMO, it's a slippery slope to just add things because you can. This could be improved by an alternative syntax. Ah, but not all see it as an improvement. Peronsally, every time I see this type of syntax in perl or javascript, I cringe. Luckily I don't do much perl. When I see it in JS, I change it. The funny thing is that Andi probably could have just commited this to the PHP6 tree and made an announcement. There would have been ~4 replies and it would have been over with. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] RE : [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
From: Richard Lynch How many newbies will be trying: array[1, 2, 3]; and left scratching their heads when it doesn't work? Yes, even if I am in favor of the [] syntax, it is a good argument: 'array[ 1, 2, 3]' can become a very common error, and not especially among newbies! Maybe I am wrong, but would it be possible to accept all these syntaxes : array(1, 2, 3) (RHS only) [ 1, 2, 3 ] (RHS=array / LHS=list, I especially like: '$x = [ $a, $b ] = f()' :) list($a, $b)(LHS only) array[1, 2, 3] (RHS only) For this purpose, we could say that the [] notation is optionally preceded by 'array'. Another idea if you want to make it easier to understand for newbies: make array() and list() synonyms, so that array() behaves as list() when LHS, and list() behaves as array() when RHS. IMHO, it would become simpler to explain. If we implement both, we can even suppport 'list[ 1, 2, 3 ]'. How can we be more permissive? Regards Francois -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
That's because you wouldn't be using those words with a newbie, if you are smart. You'd simply say it works like list() here and it works like array() here. -Andrei On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Richard Lynch wrote: On Mon, February 5, 2007 12:06 pm, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Richard Lynch wrote: E! So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which *sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to de-construct an array into individual variables? That's just disgusting, imho. -1 !!! The way I view [] is that it creates an array context. When the context is an RHS, it instantiates an array. When it's an LHS, the context deconstructs the array. I can 'splain list() to a newbie and get them to understand it as an array deconstructor function thingie, and usually succeed in one or two tries to get it into their heads. I don't think I can do that with [] and LHS and RHS in anything like 2 tries... More like 10 times, probably. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Now you're just grandstanding.
-Andrei
On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Richard Lynch wrote:
More edge cases:
$foo = array(1, 2, 3];
$bar = [1, 2, 3);
Syntax error because it's unbalancedO
Or kosher, because the choice of start/end delimiters should be up to
the user?
Should it match whatever rule is in place for:
if (...){
endif;
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Actually, this one was prompted by seeing a bug fix or changelog about
requiring { } and : endif; to match up, rather than accepting
either/or in balance.
Synchronicity that I even saw that item, but there it is.
I would HOPE that they'd have to balance, but if they don't for the
long block syntax instead of braces, maybe they shouldn't.
Once you have two ways to delimit start and end, you ought to nail
down what does or doesn't work.
The Regex thing with and for start/end delimiters is also a
counter-example of what other people seem to like.
I prefer not to take things for granted when defining new syntax,
personally.
On Tue, February 6, 2007 11:28 am, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
Now you're just grandstanding.
-Andrei
On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Richard Lynch wrote:
More edge cases:
$foo = array(1, 2, 3];
$bar = [1, 2, 3);
Syntax error because it's unbalancedO
Or kosher, because the choice of start/end delimiters should be up
to
the user?
Should it match whatever rule is in place for:
if (...){
endif;
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Re: [PHP-DEV] RE : [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Tue, February 6, 2007 8:17 am, LAUPRETRE François (P) wrote: From: Richard Lynch How many newbies will be trying: array[1, 2, 3]; and left scratching their heads when it doesn't work? Yes, even if I am in favor of the [] syntax, it is a good argument: 'array[ 1, 2, 3]' can become a very common error, and not especially among newbies! Maybe I am wrong, but would it be possible to accept all these syntaxes : array(1, 2, 3) (RHS only) [ 1, 2, 3 ] (RHS=array / LHS=list, I especially like: '$x = [ $a, $b ] = f()' :) list($a, $b)(LHS only) array[1, 2, 3] (RHS only) For this purpose, we could say that the [] notation is optionally preceded by 'array'. Another idea if you want to make it easier to understand for newbies: make array() and list() synonyms, so that array() behaves as list() when LHS, and list() behaves as array() when RHS. IMHO, it would become simpler to explain. If we implement both, we can even suppport 'list[ 1, 2, 3 ]'. How can we be more permissive? I probably needn't even post this, but: -1 Having even more ways to do everything is just confusing, not handy. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Richard Lynch wrote:
So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which
*sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to
de-construct an array into individual variables?
The distinction you are making is from an implementation point of view.
From a language users point of view you're just dealing with arrays.
Some people consider the distinction of the two a feature, some consider
it a bug.
That's just disgusting, imho.
To me it makes array usage more orthogonal and hence simpler, but that's
obviously a matter of taste.
What's also beautiful about [] IMHO is the symmetry of the syntax,
list() and array() are asymmetrical which I always found inferior.
- func('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...) equivalent to
func(array('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...), see
http://cschneid.com/php/ for more info
Again, saving 5 characters just to confuse the hell out of idiots like
me does not seem like a win for PHP. :-v
It is NOT about saving characters. If is about less clutter. The more
important saving for us is the removal of an additional pair of parens
which look like line-noise when nested. Funnily enough I forgot the
closing parens of array() in my example above :-)
I agree that our function call syntax is somewhat magical as it
automatically starts and stops the array-composition when encountering
key = value pairs so I wasn't really expecting much love for this from
the list. But one can dream :-)
Anyway, back to the main topic: I'm surprised how much hate a syntactic
change like the one proposed by Andi still provokes nowadays when well
established languages like C, C++, Javascript, Python and Ruby seem to
successfully use [] or {} to construct arrays.
My personal summary of this thread is: We won't have syntactic sugar for
common things like arrays, named parameter emulation and the like ever
because it will be killed by the we already have a way of doing this
and the you cannot look it up argument. Shame, that would be the tiny
language development I'd personally benefit from.
Regards,
- Chris
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Christian Schneider wrote: My personal summary of this thread is: We won't have syntactic sugar for common things like arrays, named parameter emulation and the like ever because it will be killed by the we already have a way of doing this and the you cannot look it up argument. Shame, that would be the tiny language development I'd personally benefit from. Named parameters is not just syntax sugar, as they would make it possible to get compiler errors and phpoc support automatically over having to implement some array based solution to trigger errors and some other formatting standard for phpdoc. Then again we had this discussion before as well, and unfortunately it was shot down (IIRC mainly because people to think that named parameters should then be implemented for all existing functions as well, which would be too much work .. then again unicode conversion might (have been) the perfect time to do this). regards, Lukas -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
From: Christian Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What's also beautiful about [] IMHO is the symmetry of the syntax,
list() and array() are asymmetrical which I always found inferior.
Agree. +1 for me, especially for this reason, even after reading Greg's
examples :) IMO, it is
more important to provide an elegant alternative to list() than a new syntax
for array().
- func('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...) equivalent to
func(array('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...)
Argh! Reading such a line, I think of named parameters, not an array. Ugly,
confusing. -1 for
me. Definitely.
May I add that, as I regularly write multi-layer arrays as SOAP return values,
I personnaly
like this proposed syntax.
Francois
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
That would be very handy. As I code frequently JavaScript and ActionScript, I
will use this feature
with pleasure. +2 for me :D The array(), especially for more-than-1 dimensional
arrays is very
cumbersome.
Best Regards,
Ivailo Karamanolev
On Monday, February 5, 2007, 12:53:44 PM, LAUPRETRE François[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
From: Christian Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What's also beautiful about [] IMHO is the symmetry of the syntax,
list() and array() are asymmetrical which I always found inferior.
Agree. +1 for me, especially for this reason, even after reading Greg's
examples :) IMO, it is
more important to provide an elegant alternative to list() than a new syntax
for array().
- func('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...) equivalent to
func(array('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...)
Argh! Reading such a line, I think of named parameters, not an array. Ugly,
confusing. -1 for
me. Definitely.
May I add that, as I regularly write multi-layer arrays as SOAP return
values, I personnaly
like this proposed syntax.
Francois
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On 05/02/07, LAUPRETRE François (P) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Christian Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- func('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...) equivalent to
func(array('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...)
Argh! Reading such a line, I think of named parameters, not an array. Ugly,
confusing. -1 for
me. Definitely.
I agree with Francois here. Other than looking STRONLY like named
parameters, surely there is a flaw if a declaration is ...
function convert(array $from, array $to)
If the calling code is ...
convert('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...)
where is the boundaries for the 2 arrays?
There would need to be SOMETHING.
convert('foo'
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Standing on the shoulders of some very clever giants!
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Richard Lynch wrote: E! So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which *sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to de-construct an array into individual variables? That's just disgusting, imho. -1 !!! The way I view [] is that it creates an array context. When the context is an RHS, it instantiates an array. When it's an LHS, the context deconstructs the array. -Andrei -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which *sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to de-construct an array into individual variables? Yep. We also have an invisible magical operator (), which sometimes means function definition, sometimes means expression grouping, sometimes means delimiter, sometimes means function call and sometimes means regular expression grouping. How do we manage? ;) -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Products Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Would this be legal?
function f() {
return [ 1, 2 ];
}
$x = [ $a, $b ] = f();
In the end, would we have...?
$a = 1;
$b = 2;
$x = array(1,2);
I'm not trying to be positive or negative about the
syntax. I'm just testing somewhat edge cases.
- Todd
On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 10:06 -0800, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
...
The way I view [] is that it creates an array context. When the
context is an RHS, it instantiates an array. When it's an LHS, the
context deconstructs the array.
-Andrei
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Good question. If it's possible to make it behave this way, I don't see
why not. On the other hand, if you take list(), it can't be used in
RHS.
-Andrei
On Feb 5, 2007, at 10:28 AM, Todd Ruth wrote:
Would this be legal?
function f() {
return [ 1, 2 ];
}
$x = [ $a, $b ] = f();
In the end, would we have...?
$a = 1;
$b = 2;
$x = array(1,2);
I'm not trying to be positive or negative about the
syntax. I'm just testing somewhat edge cases.
- Todd
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Mon, February 5, 2007 12:06 pm, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Richard Lynch wrote: E! So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which *sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to de-construct an array into individual variables? That's just disgusting, imho. -1 !!! The way I view [] is that it creates an array context. When the context is an RHS, it instantiates an array. When it's an LHS, the context deconstructs the array. I can 'splain list() to a newbie and get them to understand it as an array deconstructor function thingie, and usually succeed in one or two tries to get it into their heads. I don't think I can do that with [] and LHS and RHS in anything like 2 tries... More like 10 times, probably. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Mon, February 5, 2007 12:05 pm, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which *sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to de-construct an array into individual variables? Yep. We also have an invisible magical operator (), which sometimes means function definition, sometimes means expression grouping, sometimes means delimiter, sometimes means function call and sometimes means regular expression grouping. How do we manage? ;) How you manage is that a zillion newbies use: include(foo.inc); echo(foo.inc); and they don't even realize that the () doesn't mean what they think it means, and it just works because it's a no-op. *THAT* is harder to explain than just about anything in PHP syntax. How many newbies will be trying: array[1, 2, 3]; and left scratching their heads when it doesn't work? -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
More edge cases:
$foo = array(1, 2, 3];
$bar = [1, 2, 3);
Syntax error because it's unbalancedO
Or kosher, because the choice of start/end delimiters should be up to
the user?
Should it match whatever rule is in place for:
if (...){
endif;
--
Some people have a gift link here.
Know what I want?
I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist.
http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch
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RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Richard Lynch wrote:
More edge cases:
$foo = array(1, 2, 3];
$bar = [1, 2, 3);
Syntax error because it's unbalancedO
Or kosher, because the choice of start/end delimiters should
be up to the user?
Should it match whatever rule is in place for:
if (...){
endif;
echo(foo.inc);
echo foo.inc;
$foo = array(1,2,3);
$foo = [1,2,3];
echo $foo[0];
echo $foo{0};
$foo = [1,2,3); // parse error
echo(foo.inc; // parse error
Come on. This isn't rocket science, even for newcomers.
It certainly isn't worthy of the [awesome] level of analysis it's getting.
Holy smokes.
Best,
Mike Robinson
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 17:46 -0600, Richard Lynch wrote: On Mon, February 5, 2007 12:05 pm, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which *sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to de-construct an array into individual variables? Yep. We also have an invisible magical operator (), which sometimes means function definition, sometimes means expression grouping, sometimes means delimiter, sometimes means function call and sometimes means regular expression grouping. How do we manage? ;) How you manage is that a zillion newbies use: include(foo.inc); echo(foo.inc); and they don't even realize that the () doesn't mean what they think it means, and it just works because it's a no-op. It's not a no-op, I'm sure it actually applies parenthesis precedence on the expression foo.inc :) Personally, I use the parenthesis when using include and require because I prefer it that way... though I don't doubt some newbies think it's a function *heh*. Cheers, Rob. -- .. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `' -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
I would argue that list() (and [] when used like list()) should remain a
terminal expression. Yes it's possible to make it non-terminal, but I
don't like what the resulting syntax winds up looking like.
-Sara
Good question. If it's possible to make it behave this way, I don't see
why not. On the other hand, if you take list(), it can't be used in RHS.
-Andrei
On Feb 5, 2007, at 10:28 AM, Todd Ruth wrote:
Would this be legal?
function f() {
return [ 1, 2 ];
}
$x = [ $a, $b ] = f();
In the end, would we have...?
$a = 1;
$b = 2;
$x = array(1,2);
I'm not trying to be positive or negative about the
syntax. I'm just testing somewhat edge cases.
- Todd
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Feb 6, 2007, at 0:46, Richard Lynch wrote: and they don't even realize that the () doesn't mean what they think it means, and it just works because it's a no-op. () is not a no-op. return ($a) vs. return $a could cause PHP to corrupt memory and crash :) Edin -- Edin Kadribasic, Emini A/S Symbion Science Park, Fruebjergvej 3 DK-2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark Phone: +45 3917 8335 Mobile: +45 228 226 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Andi Gutmans wrote:
So what I'm thinking of is:
array(1, 2, 3) == [1, 2, 3]
I like this syntax, more conscise but still clear (and well established
in other languages by now).
Two more thoughts (but please don't kill Andi's proposal because of it,
rather dismiss my comments instead ;-)):
- [$a, $b, $c] = ...equivalent tolist($a, $b, $c) = ...
- func('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...) equivalent to
func(array('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...), see
http://cschneid.com/php/ for more info
Regards,
- Chris
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[PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
So what I'm thinking of is: array(1, 2, 3) == [1, 2, 3] array(1, 2, array(foo, bar)) == [1, 2, [foo, bar]] array(key = 1, key2 = 2) == [key = 1, key2 = 2] An enthusiastic thumbs-sideways. I'll probably use this at some point, but not for anything which needs to be version agnostic. -Sara -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
On Sun, February 4, 2007 8:23 am, Christian Schneider wrote:
Andi Gutmans wrote:
So what I'm thinking of is:
array(1, 2, 3) == [1, 2, 3]
I like this syntax, more conscise but still clear (and well
established
in other languages by now).
Two more thoughts (but please don't kill Andi's proposal because of
it,
rather dismiss my comments instead ;-)):
- [$a, $b, $c] = ...equivalent tolist($a, $b, $c) = ...
E!
So now we have an invisible operator with a magical symbol '[' which
*sometimes* means create an array, but *sometimes* means to
de-construct an array into individual variables?
That's just disgusting, imho.
-1 !!!
- func('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...) equivalent to
func(array('foo' = $foo, 'bar' = $bar, ...), see
http://cschneid.com/php/ for more info
Again, saving 5 characters just to confuse the hell out of idiots like
me does not seem like a win for PHP. :-v
-1
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[PHP-DEV] Re: Syntactic improvement to array
Andi Gutmans wrote: Hi, I thought I may have brought this up a long time ago but couldn't find anything in the archives. For a long time already I've been thinking about possibly adding a new syntax for array(...) which would be shorter. I'd suggest [...]. While I am usually not in favor of having more than one way to do things, I think it'd look much more elegant especially (but not only) for nested arrays. So what I'm thinking of is: array(1, 2, 3) == [1, 2, 3] array(1, 2, array(foo, bar)) == [1, 2, [foo, bar]] array(key = 1, key2 = 2) == [key = 1, key2 = 2] $arr = [1, 2, 3] vs. $arr = array(1, 2, 3) Well enough examples given :) I think it's not worth doing unless there's overwhelming support as it's not desperately needed. But I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. It seems implementation shouldn't be an issue but I'd have to dive a bit deeper. future: ?php $a = [1, 2, 3]; $a[1] = [1]; $a = [1]; [$a] = $a; $a[] = []; echo $a.[1]; // not a parse error ? now: ?php $a = array(1, 2, 3); $a[1] = array(1); $a = array(1); list($a) = $a; $a[] = array(); echo $a.[1]; // now a parse error ? For what it's worth, the examples above show why I'm a strong -1 on this idea. It introduces the possibility of weird misunderstandings that just don't exist now, and also introduces a new way to accidentally break your script that wasn't possible before. The only way I could see solving this would be: 1) [] != list() 2) use a[] as in $a = a[1, 2, 3] but then we might as well stick with array(). Either way, [] is overloaded in the new definition: 1) array access 2) ArrayAccess object offsetGet/offsetSet 3) incremental index ($a[] = 1;) 4) array creation [5) list()] Whereas now, it is only 3 possible meanings, all of which are consistent with a few quirks in the ArrayAccess one as of PHP 5.2. Greg -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
