Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
<<< Wishful thinking, I guess, Gary. Now, is there a simple way of converting the failed FSL/FLG 100 combo to the traditional setup? Is it simply a matter of switching out the FLG and replacing it with a variable capacitor? 73,...Walt >>> Yes, conversion back to a tunable FSL model would be easy-- by replacement of the FLG100 with a tuning capacitor. But if you really want to transform the antenna into a hot little performer I would recommend replacement of the 660/46 Litz wire with the ultra-sensitive new 1162/46 wire. This is the Litz wire used on all the recent Oregon Cliff DXpedition FSL antennas. 73, Gary - Original Message - From: "Walter Salmaniw" To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19:11 PM Subject: Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version Wishful thinking, I guess, Gary. Now, is there a simple way of converting the failed FSL/FLG 100 combo to the traditional setup? Is it simply a matter of switching out the FLG and replacing it with a variable capacitor? 73,...Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 3:48 AM, wrote: > Hi Walt, > > <<< Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > what we know today? >>> > > Thanks for your comments. > > Although these hard-wired FSL antennas perform exceptionally well in the > PL-380 model, they can do this only because the radio has a Silicon Labs' > Si4734 DSP chip with an antenna-tuning function. Whenever the DXer changes > frequency the DSP chip automatically responds by peaking sensitivity for > the new frequency, eliminating the need for the DXer to peak a variable > capacitor (as with traditional FSL antennas). > > Since the Perseus-SDR and other spectrum capture receivers don't have > this critical component, hard-wiring those 7" FSL antennas into their > circuitry wouldn't really accomplish anything (except maybe melting down > the Perseus' front end with an RF overload). The hard-wired FSL's do behave > somewhat like broadband antennas in the PL-380, but that's only because of > the DSP chip's antenna tuning function. The combination essentially becomes > single-optimized frequency reception from 531-1701 kHz, selectable by the > DXer. > > 73, Gary > > > > - Original Message ----- > > From: "Walter Salmaniw" > To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" < > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:52:37 PM > Subject: Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > > Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > what we know today? 73,...Walt > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 12:37 AM, wrote: > > > Hi Guy, > > > > Thanks for your comments. > > > > <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, > > regarding > > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. >>> > > > > Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really > > created a new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different > league > > than the loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are > two > > primary reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely > isolated > > away from the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor > > to upset their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil > > for reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under > > laboratory-perfect conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna > > designs were limited either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable > > tuning capacitor to upset the RF symmetry, or both. > > > &
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
So true! I sat down last night and built a couple more matching transformers. I had none to spare before I left, so now I'm back up numbers. They're easier to make in bulk, it seems! 73,...Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Nick Hall-Patch wrote: > A matching transformer might have helped Walt, though a separate ground on > the antenna side would help further. A ground rod in your luggage might > raise questions also, hi. > > best wishes, > > Nick > > > > At 07:15 24-01-16, Walt wrote: > >> That was my mistake. A 30 ' random wire fed into the SDR IQ yielded only >> a handful of 9 kHz split stations, and lots of noise. Next time! >> 73,Walt >> > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
A matching transformer might have helped Walt, though a separate ground on the antenna side would help further. A ground rod in your luggage might raise questions also, hi. best wishes, Nick At 07:15 24-01-16, Walt wrote: That was my mistake. A 30 ' random wire fed into the SDR IQ yielded only a handful of 9 kHz split stations, and lots of noise. Next time! 73,Walt ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
This isn't much different from comparing a 'traditional' tuned air core loop to a similarly sized broadband loop. The signal strength on peak is very different, however the tuned loop also is better at nulling, in part at least due to design differences. The broadband loop of course can be used with an SDR without retuning. ( I don't know of anyone who has reported on using a tuned air core loop with an SDR. Russ Edmunds 15 mi NW Phila Grid FN20id AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 11:16 PM, Guy Atkins wrote: > Hi Walt, > > To my knowledge no one has perfected a broad band FSL that works with > anything close to the performance of a single channel, carefully peaked > version. This has often been a topic of discussion between Gary and myself. > The broad band FSL I made a few years ago in the end turned out to be FAR > below the sensitivity of a tuned FSL. This FSL used a Wellbrook FLG100 > module as a matching device and amplifier. In use at home I thought it was > working well, but on a DXpedition it was sorely lacking vs. a Wellbrook > 1-meter active broad band loop. > > Different matching ratio transformers have been tried without much success. > A tuned FSL is like any other inductively coupled loop in that it's a > resonant circuit, and gain goes up sharply at the expense of bandwidth... > not of much use for broad spectrum SDR captures! > > 73, > > Guy Atkins > Puyallup, WA > > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > From: Walter Salmaniw > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < > > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > > Cc: > > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 01:52:37 + > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] > > > > "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > > Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you > recall, > > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > > what we know today? 73,...Walt > > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Not only that, the ALA can reject a whack of the RFI and QRN... Colin Newell - CoffeeCrew.com - VA7WWV - Victoria - BC > On Jan 23, 2016, at 11:15 PM, Walter Salmaniw wrote: > > That was my mistake. A 30 ' random wire fed into the SDR IQ yielded only a > handful of 9 kHz split stations, and lots of noise. Next time! > 73,Walt > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 7:01 AM, coffee_canuck > wrote: > >> Whenever I've taken an ALA100 to Hawaii I've been overwhelmed with its >> performance - 2 to 4 stations on every 9 kHz split -- and just using a 9 - >> 12 foot loop of wire... >> >> Colin Newell - CoffeeCrew.com - VA7WWV - Victoria - BC >> >>> On Jan 23, 2016, at 10:10 PM, Walter Salmaniw wrote: >>> >>> Sigh! A good idea, but as you say, a small diameter Wellbrook loop fits >>> the bill nicely, except for the lack of backside suppression, which is >> less >>> of an issue at Rockwork. After my poor experience of a random wire to a >>> SDR-IQ in Hawaii, I'm going to seriously look at bring a Wellbrook along >> on >>> my next exotic trip. I'm sure the results will be far better. >> 73,...Walt >>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Guy Atkins wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Walt, >>>> >>>> To my knowledge no one has perfected a broad band FSL that works with >>>> anything close to the performance of a single channel, carefully peaked >>>> version. This has often been a topic of discussion between Gary and >> myself. >>>> The broad band FSL I made a few years ago in the end turned out to be >> FAR >>>> below the sensitivity of a tuned FSL. This FSL used a Wellbrook FLG100 >>>> module as a matching device and amplifier. In use at home I thought it >> was >>>> working well, but on a DXpedition it was sorely lacking vs. a Wellbrook >>>> 1-meter active broad band loop. >>>> >>>> Different matching ratio transformers have been tried without much >> success. >>>> A tuned FSL is like any other inductively coupled loop in that it's a >>>> resonant circuit, and gain goes up sharply at the expense of >> bandwidth... >>>> not of much use for broad spectrum SDR captures! >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> >>>> Guy Atkins >>>> Puyallup, WA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- Forwarded message -- >>>>> From: Walter Salmaniw >>>>> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < >>>>> irca@hard-core-dx.com> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 01:52:37 + >>>>> Subject: Re: [IRCA] >>>>> >>>>> "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version >>>>> Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning >>>>> capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you >>>> recall, >>>>> a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was >>>>> sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been >>>>> variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared >> to >>>>> what we know today? 73,...Walt >>>> ___ >>>> IRCA mailing list >>>> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >>>> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca >>>> >>>> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >>>> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the >>>> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers >>>> >>>> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org >>>> >>>> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com >>> ___ >>> IRCA mailing list >>> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >>> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca >>> >>> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the >> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers >>> >>> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org >>> >>> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com >> ___ >> IRCA mailing list >> IRCA@hard-c
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
That was my mistake. A 30 ' random wire fed into the SDR IQ yielded only a handful of 9 kHz split stations, and lots of noise. Next time! 73,Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 7:01 AM, coffee_canuck wrote: > Whenever I've taken an ALA100 to Hawaii I've been overwhelmed with its > performance - 2 to 4 stations on every 9 kHz split -- and just using a 9 - > 12 foot loop of wire... > > Colin Newell - CoffeeCrew.com - VA7WWV - Victoria - BC > > > On Jan 23, 2016, at 10:10 PM, Walter Salmaniw wrote: > > > > Sigh! A good idea, but as you say, a small diameter Wellbrook loop fits > > the bill nicely, except for the lack of backside suppression, which is > less > > of an issue at Rockwork. After my poor experience of a random wire to a > > SDR-IQ in Hawaii, I'm going to seriously look at bring a Wellbrook along > on > > my next exotic trip. I'm sure the results will be far better. > 73,...Walt > > > >> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Guy Atkins wrote: > >> > >> Hi Walt, > >> > >> To my knowledge no one has perfected a broad band FSL that works with > >> anything close to the performance of a single channel, carefully peaked > >> version. This has often been a topic of discussion between Gary and > myself. > >> The broad band FSL I made a few years ago in the end turned out to be > FAR > >> below the sensitivity of a tuned FSL. This FSL used a Wellbrook FLG100 > >> module as a matching device and amplifier. In use at home I thought it > was > >> working well, but on a DXpedition it was sorely lacking vs. a Wellbrook > >> 1-meter active broad band loop. > >> > >> Different matching ratio transformers have been tried without much > success. > >> A tuned FSL is like any other inductively coupled loop in that it's a > >> resonant circuit, and gain goes up sharply at the expense of > bandwidth... > >> not of much use for broad spectrum SDR captures! > >> > >> 73, > >> > >> Guy Atkins > >> Puyallup, WA > >> > >> > >> > >>> -- Forwarded message -- > >>> From: Walter Salmaniw > >>> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < > >>> irca@hard-core-dx.com> > >>> Cc: > >>> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 01:52:37 + > >>> Subject: Re: [IRCA] > >>> > >>> "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > >>> Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > >>> capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you > >> recall, > >>> a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > >>> sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > >>> variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared > to > >>> what we know today? 73,...Walt > >> ___ > >> IRCA mailing list > >> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > >> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > >> > >> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > >> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > >> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > >> > >> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > >> > >> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Whenever I've taken an ALA100 to Hawaii I've been overwhelmed with its performance - 2 to 4 stations on every 9 kHz split -- and just using a 9 - 12 foot loop of wire... Colin Newell - CoffeeCrew.com - VA7WWV - Victoria - BC > On Jan 23, 2016, at 10:10 PM, Walter Salmaniw wrote: > > Sigh! A good idea, but as you say, a small diameter Wellbrook loop fits > the bill nicely, except for the lack of backside suppression, which is less > of an issue at Rockwork. After my poor experience of a random wire to a > SDR-IQ in Hawaii, I'm going to seriously look at bring a Wellbrook along on > my next exotic trip. I'm sure the results will be far better. 73,...Walt > >> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Guy Atkins wrote: >> >> Hi Walt, >> >> To my knowledge no one has perfected a broad band FSL that works with >> anything close to the performance of a single channel, carefully peaked >> version. This has often been a topic of discussion between Gary and myself. >> The broad band FSL I made a few years ago in the end turned out to be FAR >> below the sensitivity of a tuned FSL. This FSL used a Wellbrook FLG100 >> module as a matching device and amplifier. In use at home I thought it was >> working well, but on a DXpedition it was sorely lacking vs. a Wellbrook >> 1-meter active broad band loop. >> >> Different matching ratio transformers have been tried without much success. >> A tuned FSL is like any other inductively coupled loop in that it's a >> resonant circuit, and gain goes up sharply at the expense of bandwidth... >> not of much use for broad spectrum SDR captures! >> >> 73, >> >> Guy Atkins >> Puyallup, WA >> >> >> >>> -- Forwarded message -- >>> From: Walter Salmaniw >>> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < >>> irca@hard-core-dx.com> >>> Cc: >>> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 01:52:37 + >>> Subject: Re: [IRCA] >>> >>> "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version >>> Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning >>> capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you >> recall, >>> a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was >>> sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been >>> variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to >>> what we know today? 73,...Walt >> ___ >> IRCA mailing list >> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca >> >> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the >> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers >> >> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org >> >> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original > contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its > editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Wishful thinking, I guess, Gary. Now, is there a simple way of converting the failed FSL/FLG 100 combo to the traditional setup? Is it simply a matter of switching out the FLG and replacing it with a variable capacitor? 73,...Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 3:48 AM, wrote: > Hi Walt, > > <<< Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > what we know today? >>> > > Thanks for your comments. > > Although these hard-wired FSL antennas perform exceptionally well in the > PL-380 model, they can do this only because the radio has a Silicon Labs' > Si4734 DSP chip with an antenna-tuning function. Whenever the DXer changes > frequency the DSP chip automatically responds by peaking sensitivity for > the new frequency, eliminating the need for the DXer to peak a variable > capacitor (as with traditional FSL antennas). > > Since the Perseus-SDR and other spectrum capture receivers don't have > this critical component, hard-wiring those 7" FSL antennas into their > circuitry wouldn't really accomplish anything (except maybe melting down > the Perseus' front end with an RF overload). The hard-wired FSL's do behave > somewhat like broadband antennas in the PL-380, but that's only because of > the DSP chip's antenna tuning function. The combination essentially becomes > single-optimized frequency reception from 531-1701 kHz, selectable by the > DXer. > > 73, Gary > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Walter Salmaniw" > To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" < > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:52:37 PM > Subject: Re: [IRCA]"Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > > Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > what we know today? 73,...Walt > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 12:37 AM, wrote: > > > Hi Guy, > > > > Thanks for your comments. > > > > <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, > > regarding > > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand.>>> > > > > Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really > > created a new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different > league > > than the loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are > two > > primary reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely > isolated > > away from the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor > > to upset their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil > > for reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under > > laboratory-perfect conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna > > designs were limited either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable > > tuning capacitor to upset the RF symmetry, or both. > > > > <<< I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL > vs > > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you > finding > > better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? >>> > > > > Yes, there is now no doubt that the shorter and stubbier a hard-wired FSL > > coil becomes, the greater its nulling capability will be-- so long as the > > RF design is completely isolated , and completely symmetrical. > > > > <<< Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin > > Schanilec built > > inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were > > excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing > > indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High > > performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors!>>> > > > > All traditional FSL's (i
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Sigh! A good idea, but as you say, a small diameter Wellbrook loop fits the bill nicely, except for the lack of backside suppression, which is less of an issue at Rockwork. After my poor experience of a random wire to a SDR-IQ in Hawaii, I'm going to seriously look at bring a Wellbrook along on my next exotic trip. I'm sure the results will be far better. 73,...Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Guy Atkins wrote: > Hi Walt, > > To my knowledge no one has perfected a broad band FSL that works with > anything close to the performance of a single channel, carefully peaked > version. This has often been a topic of discussion between Gary and myself. > The broad band FSL I made a few years ago in the end turned out to be FAR > below the sensitivity of a tuned FSL. This FSL used a Wellbrook FLG100 > module as a matching device and amplifier. In use at home I thought it was > working well, but on a DXpedition it was sorely lacking vs. a Wellbrook > 1-meter active broad band loop. > > Different matching ratio transformers have been tried without much success. > A tuned FSL is like any other inductively coupled loop in that it's a > resonant circuit, and gain goes up sharply at the expense of bandwidth... > not of much use for broad spectrum SDR captures! > > 73, > > Guy Atkins > Puyallup, WA > > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > From: Walter Salmaniw > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < > > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > > Cc: > > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 01:52:37 + > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] > > > > "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > > Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you > recall, > > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > > what we know today? 73,...Walt > > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Hi Walt, To my knowledge no one has perfected a broad band FSL that works with anything close to the performance of a single channel, carefully peaked version. This has often been a topic of discussion between Gary and myself. The broad band FSL I made a few years ago in the end turned out to be FAR below the sensitivity of a tuned FSL. This FSL used a Wellbrook FLG100 module as a matching device and amplifier. In use at home I thought it was working well, but on a DXpedition it was sorely lacking vs. a Wellbrook 1-meter active broad band loop. Different matching ratio transformers have been tried without much success. A tuned FSL is like any other inductively coupled loop in that it's a resonant circuit, and gain goes up sharply at the expense of bandwidth... not of much use for broad spectrum SDR captures! 73, Guy Atkins Puyallup, WA > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Walter Salmaniw > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 01:52:37 + > Subject: Re: [IRCA] > > "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning > capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, > a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was > sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been > variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to > what we know today? 73,...Walt > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Hi Les, Thanks for this message, and also your earlier one regarding this topic. As for updating the original "Science Fiction PL-380" construction article with an addendum to include construction of this "Pest Control" version, it is scheduled for next week. Actually, the "Pest Control" FSL version is easier to construct than the original article version, since 22 of the Russian surplus 62mm bars fit exactly on a larger size of Funnoodle, with no compression required. As such, the smaller plastic tie wraps are not required. <<< Fascinating discussion. I’m now wondering if it would be possible to feed a short, stubby FSL with 50 Ohm coax—perhaps through an isolator—then mount it outdoors on a rotor? If the FSL were mounted high above the rotor on PVC pipe, and supported by either wood or PVC, with the coax running at a right angle to the FSL, could this work? As a dedicated domestic DX’er, anything that will null local and semi-local pests is worth trying! >>> There is no doubt that this "Pest Control" hard-wired FSL PL-380 version sets a new standard for nulling capability, but just how this new capability will shake out in future experimentation is still unknown. This is one of three versions planned for the current hard-wired FSL experimentation (original 3" article version, "Pest Control" and Longwave), and I'm trying to wrap up this hard-wired FSL experimentation this month (before moving back to the "Baby FSL" external models, which are also fascinating). Unfortunately, there isn't enough time to check out all possible ramifications for each hard-wired FSL version-- hopefully some other interested hobbyists can pick up the ball, and try these out. It's a great time to be a DXer! 73, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA) - Original Message - From: "Les Rayburn" To: "IRCA Radio List - irca@hard-core-dx_com" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 7:18:22 PM Subject: Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version Fascinating discussion. I’m now wondering if it would be possible to feed a short, stubby FSL with 50 Ohm coax—perhaps through an isolator—then mount it outdoors on a rotor? If the FSL were mounted high above the rotor on PVC pipe, and supported by either wood or PVC, with the coax running at a right angle to the FSL, could this work? As a dedicated domestic DX’er, anything that will null local and semi-local pests is worth trying! 73, Les N1LF Les Rayburn, director High Noon Media Services 130 1st Avenue West Alabaster, AL 35007-8536 205-621-7500 205-621-7505 FAX 205-253-4867 CELL highnoonfilm.com [This message and any attached documents contain information from the sender that may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message. Thank you.] > On Jan 23, 2016, at 6:37 PM, d1028g...@comcast.net wrote: > > Hi Guy, > > Thanks for your comments. > > <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, > regarding > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. >>> > > Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really created a > new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different league than the > loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are two primary > reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely isolated away from > the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor to upset > their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil for > reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under laboratory-perfect > conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna designs were limited > either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable tuning capacitor to upset > the RF symmetry, or both. > > <<< I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding > better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? >>> > > Yes, there is now no doubt that the shorter and stubbier a hard-wired FSL > coil becomes, the greater its nulling capability will be-- so long as the RF > design is completely isolated , and completely symmetrical. > > <<< Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin Schanilec > built > inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models wer
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Hi Walt, <<< Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to what we know today? >>> Thanks for your comments. Although these hard-wired FSL antennas perform exceptionally well in the PL-380 model, they can do this only because the radio has a Silicon Labs' Si4734 DSP chip with an antenna-tuning function. Whenever the DXer changes frequency the DSP chip automatically responds by peaking sensitivity for the new frequency, eliminating the need for the DXer to peak a variable capacitor (as with traditional FSL antennas). Since the Perseus-SDR and other spectrum capture receivers don't have this critical component, hard-wiring those 7" FSL antennas into their circuitry wouldn't really accomplish anything (except maybe melting down the Perseus' front end with an RF overload). The hard-wired FSL's do behave somewhat like broadband antennas in the PL-380, but that's only because of the DSP chip's antenna tuning function. The combination essentially becomes single-optimized frequency reception from 531-1701 kHz, selectable by the DXer. 73, Gary - Original Message - From: "Walter Salmaniw" To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:52:37 PM Subject: Re: [IRCA]"Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to what we know today? 73,...Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 12:37 AM, wrote: > Hi Guy, > > Thanks for your comments. > > <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, > regarding > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. >>> > > Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really > created a new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different league > than the loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are two > primary reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely isolated > away from the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor > to upset their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil > for reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under > laboratory-perfect conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna > designs were limited either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable > tuning capacitor to upset the RF symmetry, or both. > > <<< I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding > better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? >>> > > Yes, there is now no doubt that the shorter and stubbier a hard-wired FSL > coil becomes, the greater its nulling capability will be-- so long as the > RF design is completely isolated , and completely symmetrical. > > <<< Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin > Schanilec built > inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were > excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing > indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High > performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors! >>> > > All traditional FSL's (including Kevin's designs) have a variable tuning > capacitor-- which is a distraction from a perfectly symmetrical RF > reception pattern. The larger and clunkier the variable capacitor, the > worse and worse the nulling capability gets. Long hookup wires to a > variable cap also upset the symmetrical RF reception pattern, further > reducing nulling capability. The new hard-wired FSL's avoid both issues > completely-- with perfect symmetry and no variable tuning capacitor. > > By the way, all of the local pests except for 1450-KSUH have been nulled > down into the noise. My guess is that the over-modulated K
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Fascinating discussion. I’m now wondering if it would be possible to feed a short, stubby FSL with 50 Ohm coax—perhaps through an isolator—then mount it outdoors on a rotor? If the FSL were mounted high above the rotor on PVC pipe, and supported by either wood or PVC, with the coax running at a right angle to the FSL, could this work? As a dedicated domestic DX’er, anything that will null local and semi-local pests is worth trying! 73, Les N1LF Les Rayburn, director High Noon Media Services 130 1st Avenue West Alabaster, AL 35007-8536 205-621-7500 205-621-7505 FAX 205-253-4867 CELL highnoonfilm.com [This message and any attached documents contain information from the sender that may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message. Thank you.] > On Jan 23, 2016, at 6:37 PM, d1028g...@comcast.net wrote: > > Hi Guy, > > Thanks for your comments. > > <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, > regarding > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand.>>> > > Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really created a > new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different league than the > loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are two primary > reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely isolated away from > the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor to upset > their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil for > reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under laboratory-perfect > conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna designs were limited > either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable tuning capacitor to upset > the RF symmetry, or both. > > <<< I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding > better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? >>> > > Yes, there is now no doubt that the shorter and stubbier a hard-wired FSL > coil becomes, the greater its nulling capability will be-- so long as the RF > design is completely isolated , and completely symmetrical. > > <<< Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin Schanilec > built > inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were > excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing > indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High > performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors!>>> > > All traditional FSL's (including Kevin's designs) have a variable tuning > capacitor-- which is a distraction from a perfectly symmetrical RF reception > pattern. The larger and clunkier the variable capacitor, the worse and worse > the nulling capability gets. Long hookup wires to a variable cap also upset > the symmetrical RF reception pattern, further reducing nulling capability. > The new hard-wired FSL's avoid both issues completely-- with perfect symmetry > and no variable tuning capacitor. > > By the way, all of the local pests except for 1450-KSUH have been nulled down > into the noise. My guess is that the over-modulated KSUH is broadcasting on > more frequencies than its fundamental, making it tough to null each one :-) > > 73, Gary > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Guy Atkins" > To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 3:02:59 PM > Subject: Re: [IRCA]"Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > >> >> Gary, >> > > I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, regarding > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. > > Do you think the cylindrical (hollow) design of the FSLs changes the > response to a groundwave pest station so that a high diameter-to-length > ratio *FSL* nulls better than a *solid* rod with a high LENGTH-to-diameter > ratio? > > I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Fellas, I'm interested again with the removal of the variable tuning capacitor and use for broad spectrum Perseus SDR captures. As you recall, a number of these early large units were kindly built by Gary. One was sent my way (and I may have the same in Masset). Results have been variable. Would anything different be done with these units compared to what we know today? 73,...Walt On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 12:37 AM, wrote: > Hi Guy, > > Thanks for your comments. > > <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, > regarding > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand.>>> > > Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really > created a new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different league > than the loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are two > primary reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely isolated > away from the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor > to upset their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil > for reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under > laboratory-perfect conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna > designs were limited either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable > tuning capacitor to upset the RF symmetry, or both. > > <<< I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding > better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? >>> > > Yes, there is now no doubt that the shorter and stubbier a hard-wired FSL > coil becomes, the greater its nulling capability will be-- so long as the > RF design is completely isolated , and completely symmetrical. > > <<< Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin > Schanilec built > inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were > excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing > indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High > performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors!>>> > > All traditional FSL's (including Kevin's designs) have a variable tuning > capacitor-- which is a distraction from a perfectly symmetrical RF > reception pattern. The larger and clunkier the variable capacitor, the > worse and worse the nulling capability gets. Long hookup wires to a > variable cap also upset the symmetrical RF reception pattern, further > reducing nulling capability. The new hard-wired FSL's avoid both issues > completely-- with perfect symmetry and no variable tuning capacitor. > > By the way, all of the local pests except for 1450-KSUH have been nulled > down into the noise. My guess is that the over-modulated KSUH is > broadcasting on more frequencies than its fundamental, making it tough to > null each one :-) > > 73, Gary > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Guy Atkins" > To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" < > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 3:02:59 PM > Subject: Re: [IRCA]"Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > > > > > Gary, > > > > I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, regarding > diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas > such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the > "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. > > Do you think the cylindrical (hollow) design of the FSLs changes the > response to a groundwave pest station so that a high diameter-to-length > ratio *FSL* nulls better than a *solid* rod with a high LENGTH-to-diameter > ratio? > > I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs > traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding > better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? > > Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin Schanilec built > inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were > excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing > indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High > performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors! > > 73, > > Guy Atkins > Puyallup, WA > > > > > > > > >
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Hi Guy, Thanks for your comments. <<< I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, regarding diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. >>> Guy, there's no doubt that the stubby, hard-wired FSL's have really created a new level of nulling capability-- in an entirely different league than the loopsticks or long ferrite rods that preceded them. There are two primary reasons for this. The new hard-wired FSL's are completely isolated away from the radio circuitry, and they have no variable tuning capacitor to upset their RF symmetry. They present a completely symmetrical RF coil for reception purposes, which can null out pest stations under laboratory-perfect conditions every time. All of the preceding antenna designs were limited either by surrounding radio circuitry, a variable tuning capacitor to upset the RF symmetry, or both. <<< I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? >>> Yes, there is now no doubt that the shorter and stubbier a hard-wired FSL coil becomes, the greater its nulling capability will be-- so long as the RF design is completely isolated , and completely symmetrical. <<< Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin Schanilec built inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors! >>> All traditional FSL's (including Kevin's designs) have a variable tuning capacitor-- which is a distraction from a perfectly symmetrical RF reception pattern. The larger and clunkier the variable capacitor, the worse and worse the nulling capability gets. Long hookup wires to a variable cap also upset the symmetrical RF reception pattern, further reducing nulling capability. The new hard-wired FSL's avoid both issues completely-- with perfect symmetry and no variable tuning capacitor. By the way, all of the local pests except for 1450-KSUH have been nulled down into the noise. My guess is that the over-modulated KSUH is broadcasting on more frequencies than its fundamental, making it tough to null each one :-) 73, Gary - Original Message - From: "Guy Atkins" To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 3:02:59 PM Subject: Re: [IRCA]"Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > > Gary, > I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, regarding diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. Do you think the cylindrical (hollow) design of the FSLs changes the response to a groundwave pest station so that a high diameter-to-length ratio *FSL* nulls better than a *solid* rod with a high LENGTH-to-diameter ratio? I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin Schanilec built inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors! 73, Guy Atkins Puyallup, WA > > > > -- Forwarded message - > From: d1028g...@comcast.net > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > Cc: > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:40:28 + (UTC) > Subject: [IRCA] > > "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > Hello All, > > The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to have > an unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. With a "short and > stubby" FSL design that emphasizes symmetry, isolation and a tidy RF > reception pattern, this model can put all of my semi-locals (Seattle and > Tacoma) down in the noise-- and even receive a few competing stations on > their fundamental frequencies. Using 22 of the commonly available Russian &
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
<<< Once again, congratulations Gary, better nulling than the 100mm length one, but somewhat larger diameter, is that correct? How does the weight and balance vs. the PL-380 compare? >>> Thanks for your comments, Nick. As we discussed earlier, the "short and stubby" antenna design proved to be the key for breakthrough pest nulling-- as long as everything is kept perfectly symmetrical and isolated. The design of this new 4.25" FSL was simply a mathematical re-design of an earlier 3" FSL made with the 62mm ferrite bars-- increasing the diameter but reducing the number of turns. As it turns out the weight and ergonomics of this new "pest control" version is about the same as the "article version" 3" bar FSL-- which is reasonably convenient and suitable for portable DXing as long as suitable care is taken to avoid accidents. The weight of both the PL-380 and attached FSL is still much less than a full-sized portable like the ICF-2010 or ICF-S5W. This morning it was tough to go to sleep after the all-night session, with semi-locals like 570-KVI, 950-KJR, 1300-KKOL and 1360-KMO all biting the dust completely to allow competing stations to be heard right on their own frequencies. Bizarre! 73, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA) - Original Message - From: "Nick Hall-Patch" To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:12:21 AM Subject: Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version Once again, congratulations Gary, better nulling than the 100mm length one, but somewhat larger diameter, is that correct? How does the weight and balance vs. the PL-380 compare? Amazing stuff to be sure. best wishes, Nick At 13:40 23-01-16, Gary wrote: >Hello All, The first of the new hard-wired FSL >models specifically designed to have an >unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. ... ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Dittos. Such fantastic work Gary. One super minor suggestion. The part number on the Ace Hardware level could be helpful in case a local store might need to order and maybe a shot of what it looks like "on the shelf" Amazing work and attention to detail 73 Russ Johnson K3Pi On Saturday, January 23, 2016, Kraig wrote: > Gary, > This, to me, is absolutely fantastic. Even if I never build the FSL I > still appreciate reading and learning. > > Thank you. > > 73, > > Kraig, KG4LAC > > On 1/23/2016 8:40 AM, d1028g...@comcast.net wrote: > >> Hello All, >>The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to >> have an unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. With a "short >> and stubby" FSL design that emphasizes symmetry, isolation and a tidy RF >> reception pattern, this model can put all of my semi-locals (Seattle and >> Tacoma) down in the noise-- and even receive a few competing stations on >> their fundamental frequencies. Using 22 of the commonly available Russian >> surplus 62mm x 12mm x 4mm bars, this model is one of the "spinoff" versions >> of the 3" Bar FSL PL-380 model (for which the 15-page "Heathkit-like" >> construction article was posted at >> http://www.mediafire.com/view/w0gcek56f6aq7kr/3_Inch_FSL_Tecsun_PL.doc >> ), and has an FSL "sensitivity score" (coil diameter x ferrite length) of >> 264-- pretty close to the 300 point score of the article version (with >> 100mm ferrite bars). The advantage of this model is that there is a huge >> supply of the Russian surplus 62mm ferrite bars, currently sold on eBay by >> two >> > different sellers. You can get 20 of them for $13-- including shipping > from Lithuania. > >>Construction of this model is identical to the article version, except >> for the FSL construction (which may be added as an addendum). All of the >> construction parts are readily available, also. Unless you live practically >> next door to a local pest, this "pest control" model should cut your >> offenders way down to size. A photo of the new model is posted at >> https://app.box.com/s/5r95oxc9v24vm9hbpe2w1g800lbt4d3b >>73 and Good DX, >> Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA) >> ___ >> IRCA mailing list >> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca >> >> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the >> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers >> >> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org >> >> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com >> >> > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > -- *"The beginning of wisdom is to recognize the world as it is, not as what we wish it to be"* *"The lack of information coupled with imagination is a deadly combination"* ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
> > Gary, > I'm still puzzled as to the best way to go for nulling of pests, regarding diameter vs length proportions. Initially the "long and skinny" antennas such as in the SRF-T615 were praised for their nulling, but now the "stubby" FSLs appear to have the upper hand. Do you think the cylindrical (hollow) design of the FSLs changes the response to a groundwave pest station so that a high diameter-to-length ratio *FSL* nulls better than a *solid* rod with a high LENGTH-to-diameter ratio? I guess this is an unfair apples to oranges comparison (hollow FSL vs traditional solid rod antenna). To compare FSL to FSL then, are you finding better nulling the "stubbier" you make the antennas? Do you recall the large diameter, short rod FSLs that Kevin Schanilec built inside of Christmas wreath containers? I wonder if those models were excellent at nulling. I do remember that he did a lot of his testing indoors, which can screw up nulls and reception completely. High performance ferrite antennas CANNOT be reliably evaluated indoors! 73, Guy Atkins Puyallup, WA > > > > -- Forwarded message - > From: d1028g...@comcast.net > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America < > irca@hard-core-dx.com> > Cc: > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:40:28 + (UTC) > Subject: [IRCA] > > "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version > Hello All, > > The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to have > an unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. With a "short and > stubby" FSL design that emphasizes symmetry, isolation and a tidy RF > reception pattern, this model can put all of my semi-locals (Seattle and > Tacoma) down in the noise-- and even receive a few competing stations on > their fundamental frequencies. Using 22 of the commonly available Russian > surplus 62mm x 12mm x 4mm bars, this model is one of the "spinoff" versions > of the 3" Bar FSL PL-380 model (for which the 15-page "Heathkit-like" > construction article was posted at > http://www.mediafire.com/view/w0gcek56f6aq7kr/3_Inch_FSL_Tecsun_PL.doc > ), and has an FSL "sensitivity score" (coil diameter x ferrite length) of > 264-- pretty close to the 300 point score of the article version (with > 100mm ferrite bars). The advantage of this model is that there is a huge > supply of the Russian surplus 62mm ferrite bars, currently sold on eBay by > two different sellers. You can get 20 of them for $13-- including shipping > from Lithuania. > > Construction of this model is identical to the article version, except for > the FSL construction (which may be added as an addendum). All of the > construction parts are readily available, also. Unless you live practically > next door to a local pest, this "pest control" model should cut > your offenders way down to size. A photo of the new model is posted at > https://app.box.com/s/5r95oxc9v24vm9hbpe2w1g800lbt4d3b > > 73 and Good DX, > Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA) > > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Gary, This, to me, is absolutely fantastic. Even if I never build the FSL I still appreciate reading and learning. Thank you. 73, Kraig, KG4LAC On 1/23/2016 8:40 AM, d1028g...@comcast.net wrote: Hello All, The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to have an unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. With a "short and stubby" FSL design that emphasizes symmetry, isolation and a tidy RF reception pattern, this model can put all of my semi-locals (Seattle and Tacoma) down in the noise-- and even receive a few competing stations on their fundamental frequencies. Using 22 of the commonly available Russian surplus 62mm x 12mm x 4mm bars, this model is one of the "spinoff" versions of the 3" Bar FSL PL-380 model (for which the 15-page "Heathkit-like" construction article was posted at http://www.mediafire.com/view/w0gcek56f6aq7kr/3_Inch_FSL_Tecsun_PL.doc ), and has an FSL "sensitivity score" (coil diameter x ferrite length) of 264-- pretty close to the 300 point score of the article version (with 100mm ferrite bars). The advantage of this model is that there is a huge supply of the Russian surplus 62mm ferrite bars, currently sold on eBay by two different sellers. You can get 20 of them for $13-- including shipping from Lithuania. Construction of this model is identical to the article version, except for the FSL construction (which may be added as an addendum). All of the construction parts are readily available, also. Unless you live practically next door to a local pest, this "pest control" model should cut your offenders way down to size. A photo of the new model is posted at https://app.box.com/s/5r95oxc9v24vm9hbpe2w1g800lbt4d3b 73 and Good DX, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA) ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Once again, congratulations Gary, better nulling than the 100mm length one, but somewhat larger diameter, is that correct? How does the weight and balance vs. the PL-380 compare? Amazing stuff to be sure. best wishes, Nick At 13:40 23-01-16, Gary wrote: Hello All, The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to have an unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. ... ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
First a word of sincere thanks to Gary and others who have pioneered the development of the FSL antenna movement. And while I hesitate to add to his “To Do” list, I would like to encourage Gary to write the addendum to the article that details the construction of this version. My primary interest is in DXing domestics, and the ability to null local and semi-local pests is key to those efforts. Sounds like this is the version I need to build. Time to order more ferrite! 73, Les N1LF Les Rayburn, director High Noon Media Services 130 1st Avenue West Alabaster, AL 35007-8536 205-621-7500 205-621-7505 FAX 205-253-4867 CELL highnoonfilm.com [This message and any attached documents contain information from the sender that may be confidential and/or priveleged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message. Thank you.] > On Jan 23, 2016, at 7:40 AM, d1028g...@comcast.net wrote: > > Hello All, > > The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to have an > unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. With a "short and > stubby" FSL design that emphasizes symmetry, isolation and a tidy RF > reception pattern, this model can put all of my semi-locals (Seattle and > Tacoma) down in the noise-- and even receive a few competing stations on > their fundamental frequencies. Using 22 of the commonly available Russian > surplus 62mm x 12mm x 4mm bars, this model is one of the "spinoff" versions > of the 3" Bar FSL PL-380 model (for which the 15-page "Heathkit-like" > construction article was posted at > http://www.mediafire.com/view/w0gcek56f6aq7kr/3_Inch_FSL_Tecsun_PL.doc ), > and has an FSL "sensitivity score" (coil diameter x ferrite length) of 264-- > pretty close to the 300 point score of the article version (with 100mm > ferrite bars). The advantage of this model is that there is a huge supply of > the Russian surplus 62mm ferrite bars, currently sold on eBay by two > different sellers. You can get 20 of them for $13-- including shipping from > Lithuania. > > Construction of this model is identical to the article version, except for > the FSL construction (which may be added as an addendum). All of the > construction parts are readily available, also. Unless you live practically > next door to a local pest, this "pest control" model should cut your > offenders way down to size. A photo of the new model is posted at > https://app.box.com/s/5r95oxc9v24vm9hbpe2w1g800lbt4d3b > > 73 and Good DX, > Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA) > > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original > contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its > editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
[IRCA] "Science Fiction PL-380"-- Pest Control Version
Hello All, The first of the new hard-wired FSL models specifically designed to have an unusually sharp nulling capability is now a reality. With a "short and stubby" FSL design that emphasizes symmetry, isolation and a tidy RF reception pattern, this model can put all of my semi-locals (Seattle and Tacoma) down in the noise-- and even receive a few competing stations on their fundamental frequencies. Using 22 of the commonly available Russian surplus 62mm x 12mm x 4mm bars, this model is one of the "spinoff" versions of the 3" Bar FSL PL-380 model (for which the 15-page "Heathkit-like" construction article was posted at http://www.mediafire.com/view/w0gcek56f6aq7kr/3_Inch_FSL_Tecsun_PL.doc ), and has an FSL "sensitivity score" (coil diameter x ferrite length) of 264-- pretty close to the 300 point score of the article version (with 100mm ferrite bars). The advantage of this model is that there is a huge supply of the Russian surplus 62mm ferrite bars, currently sold on eBay by two different sellers. You can get 20 of them for $13-- including shipping from Lithuania. Construction of this model is identical to the article version, except for the FSL construction (which may be added as an addendum). All of the construction parts are readily available, also. Unless you live practically next door to a local pest, this "pest control" model should cut your offenders way down to size. A photo of the new model is posted at https://app.box.com/s/5r95oxc9v24vm9hbpe2w1g800lbt4d3b 73 and Good DX, Gary DeBock (in Puyallup, WA, USA) ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
