Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-30 Thread Patrick Martin 
Artifacts or Harmonics, whatever their reasoning, they are two very gifted CEs 
and it is their ears, not mine. One referred to them as digital harmonics and 
they bother his ears, where analog doesn't. Apparently he has quite a high 
range that most do not have.

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> From: charle...@msn.com
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 05:29:19 +
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test    
> Results
> 
> I'll put their opinions in the trash can where they belong, as there is no 
> such thing as a "digital harmonic" and - assuming they mean simply 
> "harmonic", harmonics are not the issue with digital codecs. It's rather the 
> artifacts of the compression that cause the odd swirls, muffling and 
> artificial sound. None of that has anything to do with harmonics.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Patrick Martin 
> <mwd...@webtv.net>
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 4:53 AM
> To: IRCA
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> Two broadcasting engineers I know, both in CA state that they have acute 
> hearing and to them, the digital harmonics drive them nuts, if they have to 
> monitor IBOC audio too long. It is quite personal to them. Some people like 
> vinyl as the audio has the "warmth" that digital audio lacks. I kind of agree 
> with that, as I have compared both many times. An album sounds better to me, 
> if played through a good sound system. My hearing is not that acute that 
> affects me listening to digital. IBOC audio sounds fine to me as well as the 
> streaming audio, but to some digital audio is not to their liking.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
> 
> > From: charle...@msn.com
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:38:55 +
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> >   Results
> >
> > Patrick:
> >
> > Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's 
> > why professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, 
> > old and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the 
> > IBOC audio quality report.
> >
> > And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a 
> > lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if 
> > they have an agenda.
> >
> > As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the 
> > hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most 
> > streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below 
> > analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming 
> > channels.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > 
> > From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Patrick Martin 
> > <mwd...@webtv.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM
> > To: IRCA
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test 
> > Results
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that 
> > hates digital audio, especially IBOC.
> >
> > Patrick Martin
> > Seaside OR
> > KGED QSL Manager
> >
> > > From: charle...@msn.com
> > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +
> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab 
> > > TestResults
> > >
> > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid 
> > > IBOC and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to 
> > > spark more interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the 
> > > FCC does something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given 
> > > their lack of desire so far.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
> > > <wb2...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
> > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> > > Results
> > >
> > > Going to all digital might or mig

Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Chuck Hutton 
I'll put their opinions in the trash can where they belong, as there is no such 
thing as a "digital harmonic" and - assuming they mean simply "harmonic", 
harmonics are not the issue with digital codecs. It's rather the artifacts of 
the compression that cause the odd swirls, muffling and artificial sound. None 
of that has anything to do with harmonics.

Chuck


From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Patrick Martin 
<mwd...@webtv.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 4:53 AM
To: IRCA
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

Chuck,

Two broadcasting engineers I know, both in CA state that they have acute 
hearing and to them, the digital harmonics drive them nuts, if they have to 
monitor IBOC audio too long. It is quite personal to them. Some people like 
vinyl as the audio has the "warmth" that digital audio lacks. I kind of agree 
with that, as I have compared both many times. An album sounds better to me, if 
played through a good sound system. My hearing is not that acute that affects 
me listening to digital. IBOC audio sounds fine to me as well as the streaming 
audio, but to some digital audio is not to their liking.

Patrick

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> From: charle...@msn.com
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:38:55 +0000
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
>
> Patrick:
>
> Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's why 
> professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, old 
> and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the IBOC 
> audio quality report.
>
> And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a 
> lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if 
> they have an agenda.
>
> As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the 
> hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most 
> streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below 
> analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming channels.
>
> Chuck
>
> 
> From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Patrick Martin 
> <mwd...@webtv.net>
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM
> To: IRCA
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
>
> Chuck,
>
> I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that 
> hates digital audio, especially IBOC.
>
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
>
> > From: charle...@msn.com
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> >   Results
> >
> > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC 
> > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more 
> > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does 
> > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of 
> > desire so far.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > ________________________
> > From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
> > <wb2...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
> > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> > Results
> >
> > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
> > cost for stations to do so
> > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
> > indeed likely be the final
> > nail in the coffin.
> >
> > Russ Edmunds
> > 15 mi NW Phila
> > Grid FN20id
> > <wb2...@gmail.com>
> >
> > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
> > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
> > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
> > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:
> >
> > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> > > moving to streaming.
> > >
> > > Patrick Martin
> > &

Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Patrick Martin 
Chuck,

Two broadcasting engineers I know, both in CA state that they have acute 
hearing and to them, the digital harmonics drive them nuts, if they have to 
monitor IBOC audio too long. It is quite personal to them. Some people like 
vinyl as the audio has the "warmth" that digital audio lacks. I kind of agree 
with that, as I have compared both many times. An album sounds better to me, if 
played through a good sound system. My hearing is not that acute that affects 
me listening to digital. IBOC audio sounds fine to me as well as the streaming 
audio, but to some digital audio is not to their liking.

Patrick

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> From: charle...@msn.com
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:38:55 +0000
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
> 
> Patrick:
> 
> Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's why 
> professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, old 
> and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the IBOC 
> audio quality report.
> 
> And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a 
> lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if 
> they have an agenda.
> 
> As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the 
> hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most 
> streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below 
> analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming channels.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Patrick Martin 
> <mwd...@webtv.net>
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM
> To: IRCA
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that 
> hates digital audio, especially IBOC.
> 
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
> 
> > From: charle...@msn.com
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> >   Results
> >
> > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC 
> > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more 
> > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does 
> > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of 
> > desire so far.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > ________
> > From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
> > <wb2...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
> > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> > Results
> >
> > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
> > cost for stations to do so
> > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
> > indeed likely be the final
> > nail in the coffin.
> >
> > Russ Edmunds
> > 15 mi NW Phila
> > Grid FN20id
> > <wb2...@gmail.com>
> >
> > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
> > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
> > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
> > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:
> >
> > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> > > moving to streaming.
> > >
> > > Patrick Martin
> > > Seaside OR
> > > KGED QSL Manager
> > >
> > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> > > Results
> > > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > ___
> > > > IRCA m

Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Chuck Hutton 
Patrick:

Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's why 
professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, old and 
youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the IBOC audio 
quality report.

And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a lot 
of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if they 
have an agenda.

As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the 
hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most 
streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below 
analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming channels.

Chuck


From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Patrick Martin 
<mwd...@webtv.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM
To: IRCA
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

Chuck,

I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that 
hates digital audio, especially IBOC.

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> From: charle...@msn.com
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +0000
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
>
> It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC 
> and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more 
> interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does 
> something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of 
> desire so far.
>
> Chuck
>
> 
> From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> Results
>
> Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
> cost for stations to do so
> coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
> indeed likely be the final
> nail in the coffin.
>
> Russ Edmunds
> 15 mi NW Phila
> Grid FN20id
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
>
> AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
> Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
> modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
> Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> > moving to streaming.
> >
> > Patrick Martin
> > Seaside OR
> > KGED QSL Manager
> >
> > > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> > Results
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > > ___
> > > IRCA mailing list
> > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> > >
> > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > > Registration info:
> > > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> > >
> > >
> > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> > >
> > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> > >
> > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > IRCA mailing list
> > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> >
> > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> > Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > Registration info:
> > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> >
> >
> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> > IRCA, its editors

Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Patrick Martin 
Russ,

I totally agree. If AM goes completely digital, you might as well shut off the 
transmitters. No one is listening and no one cares. Except for a few 
automobiles , I am the only one around here with an IBOC radio. The only reason 
I have the Sony, is a friend gave it to me.

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:45:42 -0400
> From: wb2...@gmail.com
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test    
> Results
> 
> Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
> cost for stations to do so
> coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
> indeed likely be the final
> nail in the coffin.
> 
> Russ Edmunds
> 15 mi NW Phila
> Grid FN20id
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
> 
> AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
> Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
> modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
> Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:
> 
> > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> > moving to streaming.
> >
> > Patrick Martin
> > Seaside OR
> > KGED QSL Manager
> >
> > > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> > Results
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > > ___
> > > IRCA mailing list
> > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> > >
> > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > > Registration info:
> > > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> > >
> > >
> > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> > >
> > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> > >
> > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > IRCA mailing list
> > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> >
> > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> > Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > Registration info:
> > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> >
> >
> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> >
> > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> >
> > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> >
> >
> ___
> IRCA mailing list
> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> 
> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> Registration info:
> http://www.nrcdxas.org
> 
> 
> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original 
> contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its 
> editors, publishing staff, or officers
> 
> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> 
> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> 
  
___
IRCA mailing list
IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca

Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
Registration info:
http://www.nrcdxas.org


Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original 
contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its 
editors, publishing staff, or officers

For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org

To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com

Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Patrick Martin 
Chuck,

I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that 
hates digital audio, especially IBOC.

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> From: charle...@msn.com
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test    
> Results
> 
> It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC 
> and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more 
> interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does 
> something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of 
> desire so far.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> Results
> 
> Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
> cost for stations to do so
> coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
> indeed likely be the final
> nail in the coffin.
> 
> Russ Edmunds
> 15 mi NW Phila
> Grid FN20id
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
> 
> AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
> Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
> modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
> Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:
> 
> > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> > moving to streaming.
> >
> > Patrick Martin
> > Seaside OR
> > KGED QSL Manager
> >
> > > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> > Results
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > > ___
> > > IRCA mailing list
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Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Chuck Hutton 
Rick:

Hybrid AM IBOC uses a 20 kv/s codec. In testing, about half of listeners said 
they would discontinue listening to it.

All digital IBOC AM  can use a 40 or 60 kb/s codec. The quality is distinctly 
better for the 60 kb/s coder: only 1 in 7 listeners would discontinue listening 
to it.
 
There's a sharp increase in perceived quality at 48 jb/s and up.

I don't know what mode (40 or 60 kb/s) was used for the KRKO tests. I'm not 
sure they revealed that info but I no longer have any professional ties to that 
arena so didn't read every word.

Chuck

From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Rick Lewis 
<rick...@shellworld.net>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 6:25 PM
To: 'Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America'
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel   Lab     Test
Results

Hi Chuck,
More robust? I'll grant that. But in the demonstrations done here, I didn't
find the sound to be better. The same? Yes. Better, no.
Unless those tests weren't done in a way that would show the potential of
all-digital IBOC.
--
Rick

-Original Message-
From: IRCA [mailto:irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hutton
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:34 AM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
<irca@hard-core-dx.com>
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
Results

It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC
and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more
interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does
something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of
desire so far.

Chuck


From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds
<wb2...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
Results

Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
cost for stations to do so coupled with the lack of interest already and the
lack of receivers would indeed likely be the final nail in the coffin.

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2...@gmail.com>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun
PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip;
modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:

> My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more
> is moving to streaming.
>
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
>
> > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
> >
> >
> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital
> -am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
> > IRCA mailing list
> > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> >
> > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City,
> > September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > Registration info:
> > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> >
> >
> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of
> the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> >
> > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> >
> > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> >
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Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Rick Lewis 
Hi Chuck,
More robust? I'll grant that. But in the demonstrations done here, I didn't
find the sound to be better. The same? Yes. Better, no.
Unless those tests weren't done in a way that would show the potential of
all-digital IBOC.
--
Rick

-Original Message-
From: IRCA [mailto:irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hutton
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:34 AM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
<irca@hard-core-dx.com>
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
Results

It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC
and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more
interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does
something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of
desire so far.

Chuck


From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds
<wb2...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
Results

Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
cost for stations to do so coupled with the lack of interest already and the
lack of receivers would indeed likely be the final nail in the coffin.

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2...@gmail.com>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun
PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip;
modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:

> My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All 
> digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  
> is moving to streaming.
>
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
>
> > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
> >
> >
> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital
> -am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
> > IRCA mailing list
> > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> >
> > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, 
> > September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > Registration info:
> > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> >
> >
> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of 
> the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> >
> > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> >
> > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> >
>
> ___
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>
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> September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> Registration info:
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>
> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
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Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Bill Whitacre 
There are many parallels to AM IBOC in the U.S. and DRM on shortwave.  Neither 
have ‘revitalized’ the medium though they can produce remarkable reception 
under the right conditions at the expense of other services nearby.

It seems to me counter-productive to keep ‘fighting the flow of technology’ to 
keep pushing these old spectrums to do things they’re not meant to.

It may well be time to put the red wrist band on them, indicating ‘Do Not 
Resuscitate,' and allow them find their own way into history.

---

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Chuck Hutton <charle...@msn.com> wrote:
> 
> It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC 
> and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more 
> interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does 
> something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of 
> desire so far.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
> To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  
> Results
> 
> Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
> cost for stations to do so
> coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
> indeed likely be the final
> nail in the coffin.
> 
> Russ Edmunds
> 15 mi NW Phila
> Grid FN20id
> <wb2...@gmail.com>
> 
> AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
> FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
> Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
> modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
> Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:
> 
>> My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
>> digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
>> moving to streaming.
>> 
>> Patrick Martin
>> Seaside OR
>> KGED QSL Manager
>> 
>>> From: wb6...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
>>> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
>>> Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
>> Results
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> ___
>>> IRCA mailing list
>>> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
>>> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
>>> 
>>> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
>>> Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
>>> Registration info:
>>> http://www.nrcdxas.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
>> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
>> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
>>> 
>>> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
>>> 
>>> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> IRCA mailing list
>> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
>> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
>> 
>> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
>> Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
>> Registration info:
>> http://www.nrcdxas.org
>> 
>> 
>> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
>> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
>> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
>> 
>> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
>> 
>> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
>> 
>> 
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> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
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> 
> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original 
> contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its 
> editors, publishing staff, or officers
> 
> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> 
> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-

Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Chuck Hutton 
It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC and 
is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more 
interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does 
something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of 
desire so far.

Chuck


From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Russ Edmunds 
<wb2...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test  Results

Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
cost for stations to do so
coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
indeed likely be the final
nail in the coffin.

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2...@gmail.com>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:

> My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> moving to streaming.
>
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
>
> > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
> >
> >
> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
> > IRCA mailing list
> > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> >
> > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> > Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > Registration info:
> > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> >
> >
> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> >
> > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> >
> > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> >
>
> ___
> IRCA mailing list
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> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
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>
> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
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>
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Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Russ Edmunds 
Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the
cost for stations to do so
coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would
indeed likely be the final
nail in the coffin.

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id
<wb2...@gmail.com>

AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin <mwd...@webtv.net> wrote:

> My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All
> digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is
> moving to streaming.
>
> Patrick Martin
> Seaside OR
> KGED QSL Manager
>
> > From: wb6...@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test
> Results
> >
> >
> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
> > IRCA mailing list
> > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> >
> > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> > Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> > Registration info:
> > http://www.nrcdxas.org
> >
> >
> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> >
> > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> >
> > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> >
>
> ___
> IRCA mailing list
> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
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>
> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> Registration info:
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>
>
> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
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>
> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
>
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Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-29 Thread Patrick Martin 
My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All digital. Few 
HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more  is moving to 
streaming.

Patrick Martin
Seaside OR
KGED QSL Manager

> From: wb6...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700
> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
> 
> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> IRCA mailing list
> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
> 
> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention
> Kansas City, September 9 to 11.  Hotel space is filling up.
> Registration info:
> http://www.nrcdxas.org
> 
> 
> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original 
> contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its 
> editors, publishing staff, or officers
> 
> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> 
> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> 
  
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Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-28 Thread Russ Edmunds 
I wonder what the results would be if they had tried this in a high-noise
situation ??

Russ Edmunds
15 mi NW Phila
Grid FN20id


AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip
FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder;
Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2);
modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15';
Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Dennis Gibson  wrote:

>
> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709
>
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[IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results

2016-04-28 Thread Dennis Gibson 
http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709

Sent from my iPad
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