Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
thanks for the answer Mike, seeing that we currently have no up to date documentation on how to develop extensions and lacking a proper user usable plugin manager, i'd rather have it in CORE for now. alternatively we might ask them, as it is very small to simply add it to their jdbc jar? let's see how they react and go from there.. ede On 24.05.2021 13:47, Michaud Michael wrote: > Ede, > > Sorry if my response was premature. It seemed to me that you would have > reacted to Jukka's and my answer if you had arguments against. > > Anyway, I understand your arguments even if I think that the difference > betweeen "adding the jdbc driver" and "adding the jdbc driver + the oj > extension" is negligible. > > My main point is that OpenJUMP code tends to be fat and messy just because it > is generally easier to add new capabilities to the core than to keep it > modular. Having the possibility to extend OpenJUMP through extensions is a > great feature and IMHO we should use it more, not less. > > That said, I don't know how you want to proceed now that we have arguments > from all of us. I let you decide if the proposition I made to Ocient has to > be changed. > > Michaël > > > > >> envoyé : 23 mai 2021 à 18:37 >> de : edgar.sol...@web.de >> à : OpenJump develop and use >> objet : Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support >> >> >> hey Mike, >> >> just saw your answer to the github ticket and noticed that i didn't voice my >> concerns about an extension so far. well one concern, maintainability. while >> i notice your concerns about closed source systems and at least for now >> exotic systems i don#t think that the little code provided warrants an >> extension for now. especially as it'll need a jdbc driver anyway. so some >> points >> 1. the whole extension packaging shebang and distro providing (extra work, >> not sure Ocient will provide it) >> 2. user friendlyness. adding a jdbc jar will be easier than having to add >> jdbc + extension.jar >> 3. maybe this db connector will promote OJ to users formerly not knowing >> about OJ in the first place >> 4. Ocient being closed source backend OJ will provide a way to convert data >> to free formats >> >> in summary, i'd rather have it in CORE for easy maintainability. it's small >> enough too. if the startup goes bust in 2 years, we'll just remove it again, >> no harm done! ..ede >> >> On 04.05.2021 10:40, Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> Ocient DB feels rather exotic for most OpenJUMP users. Installation as an >>> extension with a separate jar feels reasonable if it would be simple, like >>> dropping a new jar into \lib\ext\dbdatastore. >>> >>> >>> >>> But I can see that for making a new database to appear in the UI at least >>> this file must be prepared to handle the driver >>> https://github.com/openjump-gis/openjump/blob/0111cb03027b5fccb3de897d6a873b3d0910508e/src/com/vividsolutions/jump/workbench/ui/plugin/datastore/ConnectionManagerPanel.java >>> >>> <https://github.com/openjump-gis/openjump/blob/0111cb03027b5fccb3de897d6a873b3d0910508e/src/com/vividsolutions/jump/workbench/ui/plugin/datastore/ConnectionManagerPanel.java> >>> >>> and I can see there options that are normally not visible (H2, Oracle, the >>> disabled MSSQL). I suppose that they become usable when something extra is >>> added somewhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> Do you mean that Ocient would not be integrated with other databases but it >>> would have an own user interface, like the DB Query Plugin has, and Oracle >>> would also be extracted from the common DB framework? >>> >>> >>> >>> -Jukka- >>> >>> >>> >>> *Lähettäjä:*Michaud Michael >>> *Lähetetty:* perjantai 30. huhtikuuta 2021 10.19 >>> *Vastaanottaja:* OpenJump develop and use >>> ; edgar.sol...@web.de >>> *Aihe:* Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> It is nice to already have such a contribution. On the other hand, such a >>> plugin will only be used by users having a ocient database which is a big >>> proprietary system. From my point of view, an extension in a separate jar >>> would be more appropriate. My opinion is the same for Oracle. Anyway, these >>> plugins can only be used if the driver is added to the distribution, so >>> that I think it does not ma
Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
Ede,Sorry if my response was premature. It seemed to me that you would have reacted to Jukka's and my answer if you had arguments against. Anyway, I understand your arguments even if I think that the difference betweeen "adding the jdbc driver" and "adding the jdbc driver + the oj extension" is negligible.My main point is that OpenJUMP code tends to be fat and messy just because it is generally easier to add new capabilities to the core than to keep it modular. Having the possibility to extend OpenJUMP through extensions is a great feature and IMHO we should use it more, not less.That said, I don't know how you want to proceed now that we have arguments from all of us. I let you decide if the proposition I made to Ocient has to be changed.Michaëlenvoyé : 23 mai 2021 à 18:37de : edgar.sol...@web.deà : OpenJump develop and use objet : Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB supporthey Mike,just saw your answer to the github ticket and noticed that i didn't voice my concerns about an extension so far. well one concern, maintainability. while i notice your concerns about closed source systems and at least for now exotic systems i don#t think that the little code provided warrants an extension for now. especially as it'll need a jdbc driver anyway. so some points1. the whole extension packaging shebang and distro providing (extra work, not sure Ocient will provide it)2. user friendlyness. adding a jdbc jar will be easier than having to add jdbc + extension.jar3. maybe this db connector will promote OJ to users formerly not knowing about OJ in the first place4. Ocient being closed source backend OJ will provide a way to convert data to free formatsin summary, i'd rather have it in CORE for easy maintainability. it's small enough too. if the startup goes bust in 2 years, we'll just remove it again, no harm done! ..edeOn 04.05.2021 10:40, Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:Hi, Ocient DB feels rather exotic for most OpenJUMP users. Installation as an extension with a separate jar feels reasonable if it would be simple, like dropping a new jar into \lib\ext\dbdatastore. But I can see that for making a new database to appear in the UI at least this file must be prepared to handle the driver https://github.com/openjump-gis/openjump/blob/0111cb03027b5fccb3de897d6a873b3d0910508e/src/com/vividsolutions/jump/workbench/ui/plugin/datastore/ConnectionManagerPanel.java and I can see there options that are normally not visible (H2, Oracle, the disabled MSSQL). I suppose that they become usable when something extra is added somewhere. Do you mean that Ocient would not be integrated with other databases but it would have an own user interface, like the DB Query Plugin has, and Oracle would also be extracted from the common DB framework? -Jukka- *Lähettäjä:*Michaud Michael *Lähetetty:* perjantai 30. huhtikuuta 2021 10.19*Vastaanottaja:* OpenJump develop and use ; edgar.sol...@web.de*Aihe:* Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support Hi all,It is nice to already have such a contribution. On the other hand, such a plugin will only be used by users having a ocient database which is a big proprietary system. From my point of view, an extension in a separate jar would be more appropriate. My opinion is the same for Oracle. Anyway, these plugins can only be used if the driver is added to the distribution, so that I think it does not make much sense to clutter the code base with proprietary database specific code. My proposition would be to repackage the plugin in an extension, but to host in on our github so that it is still easy to find for OpenJUMP community.What's you opinion ?Michaël envoyé : 29 avril 2021 à 20:23 de : edgar.sol...@web.de à : OpenJump develop and use > objet : [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support hey Jukka and All, we've got our first pull request on github ('huzzah' :) and i just wanna ask if someone knows about their background and has an opinion about merging support into OJ Core. have fun.. ede ps. :) - https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-04-25 ___ Jump-pilot-devel mailing list Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel ___Jump-pilot-devel mailing listJump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel
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Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
hey Mike,
just saw your answer to the github ticket and noticed that i didn't voice my
concerns about an extension so far. well one concern, maintainability. while i
notice your concerns about closed source systems and at least for now exotic
systems i don#t think that the little code provided warrants an extension for
now. especially as it'll need a jdbc driver anyway. so some points
1. the whole extension packaging shebang and distro providing (extra work, not
sure Ocient will provide it)
2. user friendlyness. adding a jdbc jar will be easier than having to add jdbc
+ extension.jar
3. maybe this db connector will promote OJ to users formerly not knowing about
OJ in the first place
4. Ocient being closed source backend OJ will provide a way to convert data to
free formats
in summary, i'd rather have it in CORE for easy maintainability. it's small
enough too. if the startup goes bust in 2 years, we'll just remove it again,
no harm done! ..ede
On 04.05.2021 10:40, Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Ocient DB feels rather exotic for most OpenJUMP users. Installation as an
> extension with a separate jar feels reasonable if it would be simple, like
> dropping a new jar into \lib\ext\dbdatastore.
>
>
>
> But I can see that for making a new database to appear in the UI at least
> this file must be prepared to handle the driver
> https://github.com/openjump-gis/openjump/blob/0111cb03027b5fccb3de897d6a873b3d0910508e/src/com/vividsolutions/jump/workbench/ui/plugin/datastore/ConnectionManagerPanel.java
>
> <https://github.com/openjump-gis/openjump/blob/0111cb03027b5fccb3de897d6a873b3d0910508e/src/com/vividsolutions/jump/workbench/ui/plugin/datastore/ConnectionManagerPanel.java>
>
> and I can see there options that are normally not visible (H2, Oracle, the
> disabled MSSQL). I suppose that they become usable when something extra is
> added somewhere.
>
>
>
> Do you mean that Ocient would not be integrated with other databases but it
> would have an own user interface, like the DB Query Plugin has, and Oracle
> would also be extracted from the common DB framework?
>
>
>
> -Jukka-
>
>
>
> *Lähettäjä:*Michaud Michael
> *Lähetetty:* perjantai 30. huhtikuuta 2021 10.19
> *Vastaanottaja:* OpenJump develop and use
> ; edgar.sol...@web.de
> *Aihe:* Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> It is nice to already have such a contribution. On the other hand, such a
> plugin will only be used by users having a ocient database which is a big
> proprietary system. From my point of view, an extension in a separate jar
> would be more appropriate. My opinion is the same for Oracle. Anyway, these
> plugins can only be used if the driver is added to the distribution, so that
> I think it does not make much sense to clutter the code base with proprietary
> database specific code. My proposition would be to repackage the plugin in an
> extension, but to host in on our github so that it is still easy to find for
> OpenJUMP community.
>
> What's you opinion ?
>
> Michaël
>
> envoyé : 29 avril 2021 à 20:23
> de : edgar.sol...@web.de <mailto:edgar.sol...@web.de>
> à : OpenJump develop and use <mailto:jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>>
> objet : [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
>
>
> hey Jukka and All,
>
> we've got our first pull request on github ('huzzah' :) and i just wanna
> ask if someone knows about their background and has an opinion about merging
> support into OJ Core.
>
> have fun.. ede
>
> ps. :) - https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-04-25
> <https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-04-25>
>
>
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Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
Hi,
Ocient DB feels rather exotic for most OpenJUMP users. Installation as an
extension with a separate jar feels reasonable if it would be simple, like
dropping a new jar into \lib\ext\dbdatastore.
But I can see that for making a new database to appear in the UI at least this
file must be prepared to handle the driver
https://github.com/openjump-gis/openjump/blob/0111cb03027b5fccb3de897d6a873b3d0910508e/src/com/vividsolutions/jump/workbench/ui/plugin/datastore/ConnectionManagerPanel.java
and I can see there options that are normally not visible (H2, Oracle, the
disabled MSSQL). I suppose that they become usable when something extra is
added somewhere.
Do you mean that Ocient would not be integrated with other databases but it
would have an own user interface, like the DB Query Plugin has, and Oracle
would also be extracted from the common DB framework?
-Jukka-
Lähettäjä: Michaud Michael
Lähetetty: perjantai 30. huhtikuuta 2021 10.19
Vastaanottaja: OpenJump develop and use
; edgar.sol...@web.de
Aihe: Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
Hi all,
It is nice to already have such a contribution. On the other hand, such a
plugin will only be used by users having a ocient database which is a big
proprietary system. From my point of view, an extension in a separate jar would
be more appropriate. My opinion is the same for Oracle. Anyway, these plugins
can only be used if the driver is added to the distribution, so that I think it
does not make much sense to clutter the code base with proprietary database
specific code. My proposition would be to repackage the plugin in an extension,
but to host in on our github so that it is still easy to find for OpenJUMP
community.
What's you opinion ?
Michaël
envoyé : 29 avril 2021 à 20:23
de : edgar.sol...@web.de<mailto:edgar.sol...@web.de>
à : OpenJump develop and use
mailto:jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>>
objet : [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
hey Jukka and All,
we've got our first pull request on github ('huzzah' :) and i just wanna ask if
someone knows about their background and has an opinion about merging support
into OJ Core.
have fun.. ede
ps. :) - https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-04-25
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Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
On 30.04.2021 09:18, Michaud Michael wrote: > Hi all, > > It is nice to already have such a contribution. On the other hand, such a > plugin will only be used by users having a ocient database which is a big > proprietary system. From my point of view, an extension in a separate jar > would be more appropriate. My opinion is the same for Oracle. Anyway, these > plugins can only be used if the driver is added to the distribution, so that > I think it does not make much sense to clutter the code base with proprietary > database specific code. My proposition would be to repackage the plugin in an > extension, but to host in on our github so that it is still easy to find for > OpenJUMP community. > > What's you opinion ? I'm really interested in Jukka's opinion here before i want to make up my mind .. ede ___ Jump-pilot-devel mailing list Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel
Re: [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
Hi all,It is nice to already have such a contribution. On the other hand, such a plugin will only be used by users having a ocient database which is a big proprietary system. From my point of view, an extension in a separate jar would be more appropriate. My opinion is the same for Oracle. Anyway, these plugins can only be used if the driver is added to the distribution, so that I think it does not make much sense to clutter the code base with proprietary database specific code. My proposition would be to repackage the plugin in an extension, but to host in on our github so that it is still easy to find for OpenJUMP community.What's you opinion ?Michaël envoyé : 29 avril 2021 à 20:23de : edgar.sol...@web.deà : OpenJump develop and use objet : [JPP-Devel] Ocient DB supporthey Jukka and All,we've got our first pull request on github ('huzzah' :) and i just wanna ask if someone knows about their background and has an opinion about merging support into OJ Core.have fun.. edeps. :) - https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-04-25___Jump-pilot-devel mailing listJump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel
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[JPP-Devel] Ocient DB support
hey Jukka and All,
we've got our first pull request on github ('huzzah' :) and i just wanna ask if
someone knows about their background and has an opinion about merging support
into OJ Core.
have fun.. ede
ps. :) - https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-04-25
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