Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-11 Thread Tom Beecher via juniper-nsp 
>
> I am aware of a few major orders of the ACX7024 that Juniper are working
> on. Of course, none of it will become materially evidential until the
> end of 2024. That said, I think HP will give the box a chance, as there
> is a market for it. They might just put a time line on it.
>

I doubt this deal closes before Q4, and neither party is legally allowed to
do anything prior to close under the assumption it will. So nothing really
will change near-ish term.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:25 AM Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp <
juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/11/24 02:56, Chris Kawchuk via juniper-nsp wrote:
>
> > Shall we start taking bets on what stays, and what goes?
>
> I'm glad that Rami gets to stay as CEO for the networking side of
> things. Good lad, that...
> > Again, ACX was never a competitor to the ASR920 which I know Mr Tinka
> was very fond of. And the NCS540 "is the new ASR920”. There’s some long
> roads ahead for JNPR to wrestle back some of that marketshare.
>
> The whole Metro-E industry is currently a balls-up. All vendors seem to
> have met at a secret location that served 20-year old wine and agreed
> not to pursue any Metro-E platforms built around custom silicon.
>
> So really, what you are buying from either Cisco, Juniper, Nokia, Arista
> or Arrcus will be code maturity. No other differentiator.
>
> > ACX also did a ‘reboot’ of the product line in the 7000-series when they
> went Jericho, versus ACX5000 which (correct me if I’m wrong) that was
> QFX/Trident/Trident+ based and earlier ACX series which were
> $no-idea-i-didnt-look-very-hard-at-them…. so its almost “a new product”
> which may not have a lot of customer nor market traction; thus easier to
> kill off. Yes — even though previous generations of ACX did exist and
> likely had some customers..somewhere…., I know of absolutely nobody that
> bought them nor used them in anger for a large Metro-E/MPLS/eVPN/SR network
> role.
> >
> > I'm happy to be proven wrong on ACX; as I don’t like the idea of handing
> an entire market segment to a single vendor.
>
> I am aware of a few major orders of the ACX7024 that Juniper are working
> on. Of course, none of it will become materially evidential until the
> end of 2024. That said, I think HP will give the box a chance, as there
> is a market for it. They might just put a time line on it.
>
> And for once in Juniper's history, they are beginning to take the
> Metro-E network a little seriously, although probably a tad later than
> they should have.
>
> Mark.
> ___
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> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
>
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-11 Thread Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 



On 1/11/24 02:56, Chris Kawchuk via juniper-nsp wrote:


Shall we start taking bets on what stays, and what goes?


I'm glad that Rami gets to stay as CEO for the networking side of 
things. Good lad, that...

Again, ACX was never a competitor to the ASR920 which I know Mr Tinka was very fond 
of. And the NCS540 "is the new ASR920”. There’s some long roads ahead for JNPR 
to wrestle back some of that marketshare.


The whole Metro-E industry is currently a balls-up. All vendors seem to 
have met at a secret location that served 20-year old wine and agreed 
not to pursue any Metro-E platforms built around custom silicon.


So really, what you are buying from either Cisco, Juniper, Nokia, Arista 
or Arrcus will be code maturity. No other differentiator.



ACX also did a ‘reboot’ of the product line in the 7000-series when they went 
Jericho, versus ACX5000 which (correct me if I’m wrong) that was 
QFX/Trident/Trident+ based and earlier ACX series which were 
$no-idea-i-didnt-look-very-hard-at-them…. so its almost “a new product” which 
may not have a lot of customer nor market traction; thus easier to kill off. 
Yes — even though previous generations of ACX did exist and likely had some 
customers..somewhere…., I know of absolutely nobody that bought them nor used 
them in anger for a large Metro-E/MPLS/eVPN/SR network role.

I'm happy to be proven wrong on ACX; as I don’t like the idea of handing an 
entire market segment to a single vendor.


I am aware of a few major orders of the ACX7024 that Juniper are working 
on. Of course, none of it will become materially evidential until the 
end of 2024. That said, I think HP will give the box a chance, as there 
is a market for it. They might just put a time line on it.


And for once in Juniper's history, they are beginning to take the 
Metro-E network a little seriously, although probably a tad later than 
they should have.


Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 




On 1/10/24 21:30, Aaron Gould via juniper-nsp wrote:
https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/ 



Glad to see Rami will be staying on.

Considering Juniper's current market cap of US$9.5 billion, that US$14 
billion price tag is rather hefty.


Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Chris Kawchuk via juniper-nsp 
Shall we start taking bets on what stays, and what goes? 

Here’s my List:

Stays:
PE/Edge Routing (MX/Trio) - Stays and continues development. Reasons stated 
already in this thread. It’s the Swiss army knife to solve 
$things-you-didn’t-even-know-you-needed-to-do for some future corner case, and 
is a market leader.
P/Core Routing (PTX/Express) - Stays, mainly as it’s also a good border router 
too. Lots of DC people using it for massive eBGP at scale, but don’t need the 
HQoS and Subscriber-y stuff that MX can do. 
DC Switching (QFX/Trident) - Stays - Nice product HPE can sell to enterprise 
customers. QFabric lives again in new forms (I'm looking at you VCF). Cheap and 
cheerful high speed switching doesn’t go out of style.

Questionable:
EX - Does it make sense to have EX and QFX? or roll them into one? Dunno. I 
like them when "i just need a switch there” which doesn’t sound like a Boeing 
747 on takeoff. I’d like it to stay.
SRX - HPE can have a good security story now, but SRX needs an uplift versus 
what competitor’s NGFWs are up to these days (and no, Contrail isn’t the answer)

So — where does that leave ACX (Jericho2/2c+/Qumran)? My suspicions HPE says 
“What is this metro-E eVPN/VPWS MPLS aggregation stuff?". It doesn’t address 
any Enterprise solution for HPE that I can think of that couldn’t be covered by 
QFX/EX. It also is lagging behind Cisco NCS5700/NCS540 in both product 
maturity, and product breadth. i.e. If you want a nice small MPLS/SR capable 
pizza box that various form factors, power draw, faceplates, PFE speed, 
physical depth and size, etc... theres an NCS540 already built that does that. 
Contrast with… ACX7024 and the 7100. Basically 2 form factors from JNPR 
versus.. 12-15 different NCS540 and umpteen NCS5700 models and variants.

Again, ACX was never a competitor to the ASR920 which I know Mr Tinka was very 
fond of. And the NCS540 "is the new ASR920”. There’s some long roads ahead for 
JNPR to wrestle back some of that marketshare.

ACX also did a ‘reboot’ of the product line in the 7000-series when they went 
Jericho, versus ACX5000 which (correct me if I’m wrong) that was 
QFX/Trident/Trident+ based and earlier ACX series which were 
$no-idea-i-didnt-look-very-hard-at-them…. so its almost “a new product” which 
may not have a lot of customer nor market traction; thus easier to kill off. 
Yes — even though previous generations of ACX did exist and likely had some 
customers..somewhere…., I know of absolutely nobody that bought them nor used 
them in anger for a large Metro-E/MPLS/eVPN/SR network role.

I'm happy to be proven wrong on ACX; as I don’t like the idea of handing an 
entire market segment to a single vendor.

My $0.02

- CK.



> On 11 Jan 2024, at 9:15 am, Richard McGovern via juniper-nsp 
>  wrote:
> 
> #1 jewel HPE (Aruba) is interested in is Juniper/MIST AI. MIST AI and ML is 
> also being integrated into many other facets of Juniper, one being Apstra. 
> See this in announcement - 
> https://www.barrons.com/articles/cisco-stock-arista-juniper-hp-enterprise-acquisition-b94d6024
>  
> 
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Tom Beecher via juniper-nsp 
>
> HPE will turn Juniper just like they turn 3com.
>

3Com's death started almost a decade before HP acquired them. They were
pretty much dead by the time that happened,



On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:38 PM Alexandre Figueira Guimaraes via
juniper-nsp  wrote:

> HPE will turn Juniper just like they turn 3com.
>
> you know the results.
>
>
>
> att
> Alexandre
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> De: juniper-nsp  em nome de Aaron
> Gould via juniper-nsp 
> Enviado: quarta-feira, 10 de janeiro de 2024 16:30
> Para: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net 
> Assunto: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/__;!!M3gv20Gt!cY_tIELb_GnFbX25Rob0JdOOa-DCsw5rdrDXQLZCHc5pbquwHK0zxmd1eBGJkltMjQg9rRZ5_SLSka5e9RqBfwazhmC0uXDs$
>
> an MX with an HP label on it will seem so weird
>
>
> On 1/9/2024 2:55 AM, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:
> > What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?
> >
> >
> > I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
> > dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
> > sustainable in the way we model our economy.
> >
> > Out of all possible outcomes:
> > - JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
> > - JNPR defaults
> > - JNPR gets acquired
> >
> > It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
> > worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
> > several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
> > then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
> > device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
> > Nokia, Huawei.
> >
> > I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
> > long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
> > also the side of JNPR that has USP.
> >
> > What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
> > would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
> > RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
> > savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
> > on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
> > mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.
> >
> > I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
> > is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
> > always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
> > maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
> > Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
> > ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
> > features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
> > NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.
> >
> --
> -Aaron
>
> ___
> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
>
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Chris Morrow via juniper-nsp 
On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:10:09 +,
"Giuliano C. Medalha via juniper-nsp"  wrote:

> JUNIPER has 2 very powerful jewels that don't make any sense for HPe to throw 
> them away.

you know every conpany that's acquired things this sort of thing about 
themselves...
RARELY is it the reality that the other party is also imagining...

> One of them is the JUNOS operating system and now the JUNOS-EVO.
> 
> The other thing is related to the JUNIPER NPUs: TRIO and Express (
> to compete with other vendors - cisco, arista, nokia - and now with
> nvidia )

It may be the case that things go as folk on this list hope (me to, I suppose!)
it may also be that the purchaser here sees something completely different
and that the end result is vastly out of the reality discussed.

good times a-comin'!
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Giuliano C. Medalha via juniper-nsp 
Yes definitely.

And it doesn't make any sense to just take the first jewel (MIST / ML) and not 
take advantage of the other 2  (JUNOS and NPUs) ... and simply discard them.

Even because there are many large customers in the world who are using the 
"other" 2 jewels.


From: Richard McGovern 
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 7:16 PM
To: Giuliano C. Medalha ; Alexandre Guimaraes 
; juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net; Aaron Gould 

Subject: Re: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

#1 jewel HPE (Aruba) is interested in is Juniper/MIST AI. MIST AI and ML is 
also being integrated into many other facets of Juniper, one being Apstra. See 
this in announcement - 
https://www.barrons.com/articles/cisco-stock-arista-juniper-hp-enterprise-acquisition-b94d6024

FYI only, Rich

Richard McGovern
Sr Sales Engineer, Juniper Networks
978-618-3342

I'd rather be lucky than good, as I know I am not good
I don't make the news, I just report it




Juniper Business Use Only
On 1/10/24, 5:10 PM, "Giuliano C. Medalha" 
mailto:giuli...@wztech.com.br>> wrote:
Alexandre,

Goodnight.

JUNIPER has 2 very powerful jewels that don't make any sense for HPe to throw 
them away.

One of them is the JUNOS operating system and now the JUNOS-EVO.

The other thing is related to the JUNIPER NPUs: TRIO and Express ( to compete 
with other vendors - cisco, arista, nokia - and now with nvidia )

The technology of these JUNIPER NPUs is very great. Both shipping and 
manufacturing.  There is the issue today of low energy consumption too.

And there is the entire JUNIPER engineering team that has enormous value.

HPe must have a huge interest in JUNIPER NPUs for High Performance Computing 
(HPC) ... as investments in HPC for AI processing are extremely high today.

And HPe certainly has its eye on this market... being able to supply servers 
with Nvidia's HG100 cards (example) and the entire network part with the 
appropriate NPU to run the necessary communication for AI and ML.

So I don't believe that wasting a huge chance like that, especially in the 
American market, is something they are not thinking about.  Quite the opposite.

Besides 5G and Edge Computing ... and other projects.

At.te

Giuliano


Take a look 


Sharada Yeluri articles:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gpu-fabrics-genai-workloads-sharada-yeluri-j8ghc?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKNxHYZLW$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/pulse/gpu-fabrics-genai-workloads-sharada-yeluri-j8ghc?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKNxHYZLW$>

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chiplets-inevitable-transition-sharada-yeluri?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKGpRuQPN$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/pulse/chiplets-inevitable-transition-sharada-yeluri?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKGpRuQPN$>


MIT AI:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://people.csail.mit.edu/ghobadi/papers/trio_sigcomm_2022.pdf__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKBhUJIPe$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/people.csail.mit.edu/ghobadi/papers/trio_sigcomm_2022.pdf__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKBhUJIPe$>


AKAMAI EDGE:

https://www.juniper.net/us/en/customers/akamai-technologies-case-study.html ( 
JCO400 + MX304 + PTX )



-Original Message-
From: juniper-nsp 
mailto:juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net>>
 On Behalf Of Alexandre Figueira Guimaraes via juniper-nsp
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 4:38 PM
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net<mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>; Aaron 
Gould mailto:aar...@gvtc.com>>
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

HPE will turn Juniper just like they turn 3com.

you know the results.



att
Alexandre







De: juniper-nsp 
mailto:juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net>>
 em nome de Aaron Gould via juniper-nsp 
mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>>
Enviado: quarta-feira, 10 de janeiro de 2024 16:30
Para: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net<mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net> 
mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>>
Assunto: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/__;!!M3gv20Gt!cY_tIELb_GnFbX25Rob0JdOOa-DCsw5rdrDXQLZCHc5pb

Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Richard McGovern via juniper-nsp 
#1 jewel HPE (Aruba) is interested in is Juniper/MIST AI. MIST AI and ML is 
also being integrated into many other facets of Juniper, one being Apstra. See 
this in announcement - 
https://www.barrons.com/articles/cisco-stock-arista-juniper-hp-enterprise-acquisition-b94d6024

FYI only, Rich

Richard McGovern
Sr Sales Engineer, Juniper Networks
978-618-3342

I’d rather be lucky than good, as I know I am not good
I don’t make the news, I just report it




Juniper Business Use Only

On 1/10/24, 5:10 PM, "Giuliano C. Medalha"  wrote:
Alexandre,

Goodnight.

JUNIPER has 2 very powerful jewels that don't make any sense for HPe to throw 
them away.

One of them is the JUNOS operating system and now the JUNOS-EVO.

The other thing is related to the JUNIPER NPUs: TRIO and Express ( to compete 
with other vendors - cisco, arista, nokia - and now with nvidia )

The technology of these JUNIPER NPUs is very great. Both shipping and 
manufacturing.  There is the issue today of low energy consumption too.

And there is the entire JUNIPER engineering team that has enormous value.

HPe must have a huge interest in JUNIPER NPUs for High Performance Computing 
(HPC) ... as investments in HPC for AI processing are extremely high today.

And HPe certainly has its eye on this market... being able to supply servers 
with Nvidia's HG100 cards (example) and the entire network part with the 
appropriate NPU to run the necessary communication for AI and ML.

So I don't believe that wasting a huge chance like that, especially in the 
American market, is something they are not thinking about.  Quite the opposite.

Besides 5G and Edge Computing ... and other projects.

At.te

Giuliano


Take a look 


Sharada Yeluri articles:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gpu-fabrics-genai-workloads-sharada-yeluri-j8ghc?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKNxHYZLW$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/pulse/gpu-fabrics-genai-workloads-sharada-yeluri-j8ghc?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKNxHYZLW$>

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chiplets-inevitable-transition-sharada-yeluri?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKGpRuQPN$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/pulse/chiplets-inevitable-transition-sharada-yeluri?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKGpRuQPN$>


MIT AI:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://people.csail.mit.edu/ghobadi/papers/trio_sigcomm_2022.pdf__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKBhUJIPe$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/people.csail.mit.edu/ghobadi/papers/trio_sigcomm_2022.pdf__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HQROn9iGp4UvBkIlPTpyFN3tHCur82IRLhMj2HcS56qjKND36LA46zPvEikfsSpdYFnKJfz3cUTcL6mDjp7THMIoKBhUJIPe$>


AKAMAI EDGE:

https://www.juniper.net/us/en/customers/akamai-technologies-case-study.html ( 
JCO400 + MX304 + PTX )



-Original Message-
From: juniper-nsp 
mailto:juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net>>
 On Behalf Of Alexandre Figueira Guimaraes via juniper-nsp
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 4:38 PM
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net<mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>; Aaron 
Gould mailto:aar...@gvtc.com>>
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

HPE will turn Juniper just like they turn 3com.

you know the results.



att
Alexandre







De: juniper-nsp 
mailto:juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net>>
 em nome de Aaron Gould via juniper-nsp 
mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>>
Enviado: quarta-feira, 10 de janeiro de 2024 16:30
Para: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net<mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net> 
mailto:juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>>
Assunto: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/__;!!M3gv20Gt!cY_tIELb_GnFbX25Rob0JdOOa-DCsw5rdrDXQLZCHc5pbquwHK0zxmd1eBGJkltMjQg9rRZ5_SLSka5e9RqBfwazhmC0uXDs$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/__;!!M3gv20Gt!cY_tIELb_GnFbX25Rob0JdOOa-DCsw5rdrDXQLZCHc5pbquwHK0zxmd1eBGJkltMjQg9rRZ5_SLSka5e9RqBfwazhmC0uXDs$>

an MX with an HP label on it will seem so weird


On 1/9/2024 2:55 AM, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:
> What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?
>
>
> I guess it was given that something

Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Giuliano C. Medalha via juniper-nsp 
Alexandre,

Goodnight.

JUNIPER has 2 very powerful jewels that don't make any sense for HPe to throw 
them away.

One of them is the JUNOS operating system and now the JUNOS-EVO.

The other thing is related to the JUNIPER NPUs: TRIO and Express ( to compete 
with other vendors - cisco, arista, nokia - and now with nvidia )

The technology of these JUNIPER NPUs is very great. Both shipping and 
manufacturing.  There is the issue today of low energy consumption too.

And there is the entire JUNIPER engineering team that has enormous value.

HPe must have a huge interest in JUNIPER NPUs for High Performance Computing 
(HPC) ... as investments in HPC for AI processing are extremely high today.

And HPe certainly has its eye on this market... being able to supply servers 
with Nvidia's HG100 cards (example) and the entire network part with the 
appropriate NPU to run the necessary communication for AI and ML.

So I don't believe that wasting a huge chance like that, especially in the 
American market, is something they are not thinking about.  Quite the opposite.

Besides 5G and Edge Computing ... and other projects.

At.te

Giuliano


Take a look 


Sharada Yeluri articles:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gpu-fabrics-genai-workloads-sharada-yeluri-j8ghc?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chiplets-inevitable-transition-sharada-yeluri?utm_source=share_medium=member_ios_campaign=share_via


MIT AI:

https://people.csail.mit.edu/ghobadi/papers/trio_sigcomm_2022.pdf


AKAMAI EDGE:

https://www.juniper.net/us/en/customers/akamai-technologies-case-study.html ( 
JCO400 + MX304 + PTX )



-Original Message-
From: juniper-nsp  On Behalf Of Alexandre 
Figueira Guimaraes via juniper-nsp
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 4:38 PM
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net; Aaron Gould 
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

HPE will turn Juniper just like they turn 3com.

you know the results.



att
Alexandre







De: juniper-nsp  em nome de Aaron Gould 
via juniper-nsp 
Enviado: quarta-feira, 10 de janeiro de 2024 16:30
Para: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net 
Assunto: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/__;!!M3gv20Gt!cY_tIELb_GnFbX25Rob0JdOOa-DCsw5rdrDXQLZCHc5pbquwHK0zxmd1eBGJkltMjQg9rRZ5_SLSka5e9RqBfwazhmC0uXDs$

an MX with an HP label on it will seem so weird


On 1/9/2024 2:55 AM, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:
> What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?
>
>
> I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
> dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
> sustainable in the way we model our economy.
>
> Out of all possible outcomes:
> - JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
> - JNPR defaults
> - JNPR gets acquired
>
> It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
> worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
> several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
> then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
> device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
> Nokia, Huawei.
>
> I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
> long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
> also the side of JNPR that has USP.
>
> What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
> would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
> RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
> savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
> on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
> mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.
>
> I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
> is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
> always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
> maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
> Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
> ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
> features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
> NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.
>
--
-Aaron

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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Alexandre Figueira Guimaraes via juniper-nsp 
HPE will turn Juniper just like they turn 3com.

you know the results.



att
Alexandre







De: juniper-nsp  em nome de Aaron Gould 
via juniper-nsp 
Enviado: quarta-feira, 10 de janeiro de 2024 16:30
Para: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net 
Assunto: Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/__;!!M3gv20Gt!cY_tIELb_GnFbX25Rob0JdOOa-DCsw5rdrDXQLZCHc5pbquwHK0zxmd1eBGJkltMjQg9rRZ5_SLSka5e9RqBfwazhmC0uXDs$

an MX with an HP label on it will seem so weird


On 1/9/2024 2:55 AM, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:
> What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?
>
>
> I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
> dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
> sustainable in the way we model our economy.
>
> Out of all possible outcomes:
> - JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
> - JNPR defaults
> - JNPR gets acquired
>
> It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
> worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
> several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
> then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
> device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
> Nokia, Huawei.
>
> I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
> long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
> also the side of JNPR that has USP.
>
> What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
> would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
> RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
> savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
> on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
> mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.
>
> I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
> is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
> always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
> maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
> Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
> ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
> features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
> NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.
>
--
-Aaron

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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Aaron Gould via juniper-nsp 

https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/

an MX with an HP label on it will seem so weird


On 1/9/2024 2:55 AM, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:

What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?


I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
sustainable in the way we model our economy.

Out of all possible outcomes:
- JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
- JNPR defaults
- JNPR gets acquired

It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
Nokia, Huawei.

I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
also the side of JNPR that has USP.

What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.

I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.


--
-Aaron

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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 



On 1/10/24 18:22, Tom Beecher wrote:



I wouldn't necessarily agree that was the wrong *technical* decision. 
Unfortunately, it was a perfect scenario to be exploited for the 
MBA-ification of everything that has greatly expanded in the past decade.


I agree.

Kind of like "not making a mistake of it, but being wrong at the same 
time", if you know what I mean :-).


Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-10 Thread Tom Beecher via juniper-nsp 
>
> In our hubris to "decouple the control plane from the data plane (tm)",
> we, instead, decoupled the software/hardware integration from a single
> vendor.
>

I wouldn't necessarily agree that was the wrong *technical* decision.
Unfortunately, it was a perfect scenario to be exploited for the
MBA-ification of everything that has greatly expanded in the past decade.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:24 AM Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp <
juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/10/24 09:04, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> > I find it frustrating that things one would expect to be included in
> > any layer 3 switch has become additional revenue opportunities.
> >
> > "The switch hardware is $x.  Oh you want the software too?  Oh,
> > that's an additional cost.   L3 switching?  Oh,  that's an extra
> > feature.  OSPF? Oh that's not included with the L3 license so that
> > will be extra too. Oh and by the way,  you aren't buying a perpetual
> > license anymore so be sure to pay us the fees for all the software
> > functionality every year".
> >
> > Yes I know the above isn't completely 100% accurate but it definitely
> > is how it seems anymore.
> >
> > I get charging extra for advanced features,  but when basic features
> > that pretty much everyone wants and uses becomes an add-on and not
> > perpetual,  it tends to make me start looking for a different vendor.
>
> In our hubris to "decouple the control plane from the data plane (tm)",
> we, instead, decoupled the software/hardware integration from a single
> vendor.
>
> So hardware folk make their own cut, and software folk make their own
> cut. And they are not the same people.
>
> Welcome to the "white box" and "software-only" era.
>
> Mark.
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 



On 1/10/24 09:04, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I find it frustrating that things one would expect to be included in 
any layer 3 switch has become additional revenue opportunities.


"The switch hardware is $x.  Oh you want the software too?  Oh,  
that's an additional cost.   L3 switching?  Oh,  that's an extra 
feature.  OSPF? Oh that's not included with the L3 license so that 
will be extra too. Oh and by the way,  you aren't buying a perpetual 
license anymore so be sure to pay us the fees for all the software 
functionality every year".


Yes I know the above isn't completely 100% accurate but it definitely 
is how it seems anymore.


I get charging extra for advanced features,  but when basic features 
that pretty much everyone wants and uses becomes an add-on and not 
perpetual,  it tends to make me start looking for a different vendor.


In our hubris to "decouple the control plane from the data plane (tm)", 
we, instead, decoupled the software/hardware integration from a single 
vendor.


So hardware folk make their own cut, and software folk make their own 
cut. And they are not the same people.


Welcome to the "white box" and "software-only" era.

Mark.

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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account) via juniper-nsp 
On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 4:22 AM Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp <
juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net> wrote:

> There is no shortage of cheap ports. The issue is how useful those ports
> are beyond just "speed".
>

I find it frustrating that things one would expect to be included in any
layer 3 switch has become additional revenue opportunities.

"The switch hardware is $x.  Oh you want the software too?  Oh,  that's an
additional cost.   L3 switching?  Oh,  that's an extra feature.  OSPF? Oh
that's not included with the L3 license so that will be extra too. Oh and
by the way,  you aren't buying a perpetual license anymore so be sure to
pay us the fees for all the software functionality every year".

Yes I know the above isn't completely 100% accurate but it definitely is
how it seems anymore.

I get charging extra for advanced features,  but when basic features that
pretty much everyone wants and uses becomes an add-on and not perpetual,
it tends to make me start looking for a different vendor.
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Rob Foehl via juniper-nsp 
On Tue, 2024-01-09 at 10:55 +0200, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:
> What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?

I'm just hoping the port checker gets updated to show which slots will
accept a fresh magenta cartridge in order to bring BGP back up...

(Just kidding -- but only because it's the wrong HP for that particular
manifestation of the current rent-seeking licensing trajectory.)

-Rob
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Jared Mauch via juniper-nsp 



> On Jan 9, 2024, at 7:22 AM, Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/9/24 11:47, Roger Wiklund wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Yeah the ISP business is no fun, I feel like everyone secretly wishes they 
>> can start buying Huawei again, It seems it's all about the lowest price per 
>> 100G/400G port.
> 
> There is no shortage of cheap ports. The issue is how useful those ports are 
> beyond just "speed".
> 
> This is where Trio does well, but this may not be enough to save the day.


I expect they would move their HP networking under Juniper due to the brand 
value.  To bring on all their devices JunOS and that value would be worthwhile. 
 Lets see what happens if it gets folded underneath or is independent.

- Jared 
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 



On 1/9/24 11:47, Roger Wiklund wrote:



Yeah the ISP business is no fun, I feel like everyone secretly wishes 
they can start buying Huawei again, It seems it's all about the 
lowest price per 100G/400G port.


There is no shortage of cheap ports. The issue is how useful those ports 
are beyond just "speed".


This is where Trio does well, but this may not be enough to save the day.

Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Roger Wiklund via juniper-nsp 
Not the first rumour of Juniper getting acquired. Last time it was Ericsson
and before that I think it was IBM or EMC, but perhaps this time it's the
real deal.

Juniper has been very successful in Enterprise with the Mist acquisition,
so I'm a bit surprised that the stock price is still stale.
Perhaps there's not enough money there or it's too little too late.

I wonder how they would merge Mist and Aruba, the top wifi players on the
market. Usually you acquire a company to fill a gap in the portfolio. But
perhaps that's primarily done for Junipers routing/dc/switching stuff then.

Yeah the ISP business is no fun, I feel like everyone secretly wishes they
can start buying Huawei again, It seems it's all about the lowest price per
100G/400G port.

/Roger

On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 10:19 AM Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp <
juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/9/24 10:55, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:
> > What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?
> >
> >
> > I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
> > dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
> > sustainable in the way we model our economy.
> >
> > Out of all possible outcomes:
> > - JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
> > - JNPR defaults
> > - JNPR gets acquired
> >
> > It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
> > worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
> > several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
> > then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
> > device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
> > Nokia, Huawei.
> >
> > I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
> > long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
> > also the side of JNPR that has USP.
> >
> > What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
> > would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
> > RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
> > savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
> > on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
> > mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.
> >
> > I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
> > is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
> > always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
> > maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
> > Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
> > ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
> > features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
> > NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.
>
> HP could do what Geely did for Volvo - give them cash, leave them alone,
> but force them to wake up and get into the real world.
>
> I don't think HP can match Juniper intellectually in the networking
> space, so perhaps they add another sort of credibility to Juniper, as
> long as Juniper realize that they need to get cleverer at staying in
> business than just being technically smart.
>
> I am concerned that if we lose Trio, it would be the end of half-decent
> line-rate networking, which would level the playing field around
> Broadcom... good for them, but perhaps not so great for operators. On
> the other hand, as you say, the ISP business is in a terrible place
> right now, and not looking to get any better as the core of the Internet
> continues to be owned by a small % of the content crew.
>
> And then there was this, hehe:
>
>  https://hpjuniper.com/en/signature-gin/
>
> Hehe.
>
> Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Mark Tinka via juniper-nsp 



On 1/9/24 10:55, Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp wrote:

What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?


I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
sustainable in the way we model our economy.

Out of all possible outcomes:
- JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
- JNPR defaults
- JNPR gets acquired

It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
Nokia, Huawei.

I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
also the side of JNPR that has USP.

What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.

I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.


HP could do what Geely did for Volvo - give them cash, leave them alone, 
but force them to wake up and get into the real world.


I don't think HP can match Juniper intellectually in the networking 
space, so perhaps they add another sort of credibility to Juniper, as 
long as Juniper realize that they need to get cleverer at staying in 
business than just being technically smart.


I am concerned that if we lose Trio, it would be the end of half-decent 
line-rate networking, which would level the playing field around 
Broadcom... good for them, but perhaps not so great for operators. On 
the other hand, as you say, the ISP business is in a terrible place 
right now, and not looking to get any better as the core of the Internet 
continues to be owned by a small % of the content crew.


And then there was this, hehe:

    https://hpjuniper.com/en/signature-gin/

Hehe.

Mark.
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[j-nsp] Thanks for all the fish

2024-01-09 Thread Saku Ytti via juniper-nsp 
What do we think of HPE acquiring JNPR?


I guess it was given that something's gotta give, JNPR has lost to
dollar as an investment for more than 2 decades, which is not
sustainable in the way we model our economy.

Out of all possible outcomes:
   - JNPR suddenly starts to grow (how?)
   - JNPR defaults
   - JNPR gets acquired

It's not the worst outcome, and from who acquires them, HPE isn't the
worst option, nor the best. I guess the best option would have been,
several large telcos buying it through a co-owned sister company, who
then are less interested in profits, and more interested in having a
device that works for them. Worst would probably have been Cisco,
Nokia, Huawei.

I think the main concern is that SP business is kinda shitty business,
long sales times, low sales volumes, high requirements. But that's
also the side of JNPR that has USP.

What is the future of NPU (Trio) and Pipeline (Paradise/Triton), why
would I, as HP exec, keep them alive? I need JNPR to put QFX in my DC
RFPs, I don't really care about SP markets, and I can realise some
savings by axing chip design and support. I think Trio is the best NPU
on the market, and I think we may have a real risk losing it, and no
mechanism that would guarantee new players surfacing to replace it.

I do wish that JNPR had been more serious about how unsustainable it
is to lose to the dollar, and had tried more to capture markets. I
always suggested why not try Trio-PCI in newegg. Long tail is long,
maybe if you could buy it for 2-3k, there would be a new market of
Linux PCI users who want wire rate programmable features for multiple
ports? Maybe ESXi server integration for various pre-VPC protection
features at wire-rate? I think there might be a lot of potential in
NPU-PCI, perhaps even FAB-PCI, to have more ports than single NPU-PCI.

-- 
  ++ytti
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