Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 10:37:59, ianseeks wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=KDE-Applications-15.08 Ahead of the Plasma 5.4 release later this month and after last week's KDE Frameworks 5.13 release is KDE Applications 15.08. How am I supposed to keep track of these things?! Thats a lot of numbers to keep your eye on when reading about KDE From my point of view these kind of comments are very close to troll territory. So there is one version for KDE's desktop product and one version for *all* application products. How do users of vendors cope who do not release all their applications in one go? How, for example, do users of Microsoft Office cope with the problem that Windows has a different version number than Office? Are they in panic when Skype does not share the version of one of these two? Are they close to dispair when .Net or Visual Studio bring in even more version numbers to the mix? Assuming they cope just fine, only keeping track of versions of products they themselves use, why would users of KDE software be incapable of doing the same? For sure users of KDE software have the same intelectual capacity as users of Microsoft software, do they not? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday 20 August 2015 11:44:32 John Layt wrote: On 20 August 2015 at 16:15, J. Leslie Turriff jlturr...@mail.com wrote: Another of the many good reasons to stay on KDE3. Now that is just trolling :-) True. I'm still really unhappy about the KDE4 upgrade fiasco and the lost functionality that still plagues KDE beyond KDE3. -- A Caution to Everybody Consider the Auk; Becoming extinct because he forgot how to fly, and could only walk. Consider man, who may well become extinct Because he forgot how to walk and learned how to fly before he thinked. -- Ogden Nash ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 13:10 -0500, J. Leslie Turriff wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2015 11:44:32 John Layt wrote: On 20 August 2015 at 16:15, J. Leslie Turriff jlturr...@mail.com wrote: Another of the many good reasons to stay on KDE3. Now that is just trolling :-) True. I'm still really unhappy about the KDE4 upgrade fiasco and the lost functionality that still plagues KDE beyond KDE3. what functionality did KDE4 miss? Things improved heavily throughout KDE4 lifecycle especially after the switch to baloo. I found KDE4 by 4.14.xx (with the patched akonadi) to be as perfect as a desktop can be (It ranked up there with XPSP3). I used to have weeks of uptime without memory increases or crashes or anything. The system resources footprint was minimal too. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 14:47:30, ianseeks wrote: On Thursday 20 Aug 2015 14:06:34 Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 10:37:59, ianseeks wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=KDE-Applications-15.0 8 Ahead of the Plasma 5.4 release later this month and after last week's KDE Frameworks 5.13 release is KDE Applications 15.08. How am I supposed to keep track of these things?! Thats a lot of numbers to keep your eye on when reading about KDE From my point of view these kind of comments are very close to troll territory. I don't see it as that. I just thought it was an interesting take on what someone was reading and how they saw it. I can understand that there is a certain mental step involved in realizing that a vendor can in fact have more than one product. What I do not understand is why other vendors would be allowed to have multiple products but KDE would not. Why KDE should cease to develop applications and soley work on a desktop shell. Why Qt application developers should not benefit from third party Qt libraries and restrict themselves to those provided by the Qt project. The different version numbers are a constant reminder to those who would rather see application development to be stoppped and libraries to be kept internal that their wished are just not the reality. IMHO this allegeded difficulty is just an attempt to gather support for their goal of having KDE deliver a desktop and nothing else. Its just the version numbering has a chance of getting out of hand and not being linked to each other. E.g. does the 5 in plasma 5.4 relate to the 5 in Frameworks 5.13? If so, what does the KDE-Applications-15.08 relate to regarding Frameworks etc. One of the initial proposals for the next Plasma version was Plasma 2, as this is what it would have been. There was concern that would cause confusion since many people equate the desktop with KDE itself, so that would have been KDE 2, which was already taken. So to allow people who only use KDE's desktop product to refer to it as KDE or Plasma with the same version number, 5 was chosen as the base version for what is actually Plasma 2. Similar reason for the Framework version, to avoid them being called KDE Libs 1. Seems this alternative naming wasn't used at all, so yes, it could have been KDE Frameworks 1. As for KDE Applications, being a bundle, similar to a Linux distribution being a collection of individual software items, the version chosen reflects the point in time of the release. Its version does not relate to any of the libraries being used by the applications it contains, it would be impossible to do that given the number of libraries involved. Would it be an idea to prefix all sub projects of KDE with a unified number relating to the framework it depends on so as an example, KDE 5 is made up of Plasma 5.5.4., Frameworks 5.13, KDE Applications 5.15.08. This will make it easier for us outside the development world to see a link between the sub projects. What would be the benefit of that. This would only artifically suggest relation where there is none. Microsoft Office 2015 is not called Microsoft Office 10.2015 just because it happens to be released at the time when Windows 10 is the vendor's current desktop product. Users could be confused, guess a relation and assume Office 2015 can only be used on Windows 10. While Microsoft would gladly have as many Windows users as possible to upgrade to Windows 10, they have abstained from creating this mental bridge. Most likely because they rather have people get Office 2015 even if they are just on Windows 7 or 8. Exactly why KDE Applications has a very different version scheme, to avoid people mistakingly assume a connection between the applications and Plasma desktop when there is none as far as using the applications is concerned. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday 20 August 2015 2:06:34 PM Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 10:37:59, ianseeks wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=KDE-Applications-15.08 Ahead of the Plasma 5.4 release later this month and after last week's KDE Frameworks 5.13 release is KDE Applications 15.08. How am I supposed to keep track of these things?! Thats a lot of numbers to keep your eye on when reading about KDE From my point of view these kind of comments are very close to troll territory. So there is one version for KDE's desktop product and one version for *all* application products. How do users of vendors cope who do not release all their applications in one go? How, for example, do users of Microsoft Office cope with the problem that Windows has a different version number than Office? Are they in panic when Skype does not share the version of one of these two? Are they close to dispair when .Net or Visual Studio bring in even more version numbers to the mix? Assuming they cope just fine, only keeping track of versions of products they themselves use, why would users of KDE software be incapable of doing the same? For sure users of KDE software have the same intelectual capacity as users of Microsoft software, do they not? In all honesty it is a bit confusing and your comparison does not quite hold as MS Office is an application you choose/buy, not part of the whole package so to speak. I am just beginning to get the whole concept myself but of course different release dates, different numbering and so on does not help. kind regards, Sinclair___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 14:28:28, O.Sinclair wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2015 2:06:34 PM Kevin Krammer wrote: So there is one version for KDE's desktop product and one version for *all* application products. How do users of vendors cope who do not release all their applications in one go? How, for example, do users of Microsoft Office cope with the problem that Windows has a different version number than Office? Are they in panic when Skype does not share the version of one of these two? Are they close to dispair when .Net or Visual Studio bring in even more version numbers to the mix? Assuming they cope just fine, only keeping track of versions of products they themselves use, why would users of KDE software be incapable of doing the same? For sure users of KDE software have the same intelectual capacity as users of Microsoft software, do they not? In all honesty it is a bit confusing and your comparison does not quite hold as MS Office is an application you choose/buy, not part of the whole package so to speak. I am just beginning to get the whole concept myself but of course different release dates, different numbering and so on does not help. I am afraid I do not follow. MS Office is an application bundle that you can or can not choose/buy. KDE Applications is an application bundle that you can or can not choose. So the difference is that you buy one and not the other? What about Skype then? As far as I know it is still gratis. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 08:32:57, Alex Barry wrote: I do agree that it's a non-issue, but from another perspective, linux is notorious for version compatibility issues on a large-ish scale, so it makes the concept of version numbers to be a little scary, especially for non-developers. I am not sure that is a contributing factor. On Linux one traditionally cares even less about version numbers, because the distributor chooses which version to package. Also, if we take applications with different versions from another vendor, I've not heard anyone being scared, little or otherwise, of Firefox and Thunderbird having different version numbers. That's not to say that the Phoronix post is right or wrong, but maybe the KDE dev team needs to have a friendlier way to describe why some version numbers bump? Looking at large changelog-style lists isn't always the best reading material, and maybe that's the scarier part for end-users. They just want to know if they update if that will break everything they have set up, or if it's worth upgrading to get feature x. A new release gets a new version number. Is there any software vendor, commercial or community, who keeps the same version number when doing a new release? If the changelog for the application bundle is to big, then releasing each application independently would help, but apparently different versions for different things are even more scary. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
Hussam Al-Tayeb composed on 2015-08-20 21:27 (UTC+0300): On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 13:10 -0500, J. Leslie Turriff wrote: John Layt wrote: J. Leslie Turriff wrote: Another of the many good reasons to stay on KDE3. Now that is just trolling :-) True. I'm still really unhappy about the KDE4 upgrade fiasco and the lost functionality that still plagues KDE beyond KDE3. what functionality did KDE4 miss? At what point in time? It took years to get only most of it back, only to have KDE4 go into feature freeze/out of support with only a very buggy v5 to take its place. Things improved heavily throughout KDE4 lifecycle But it took a long time to get v4 nearly to the same quality of v3, well beyond .3 and .4, beyond .8, and beyond. Meanwhile, many of those dependent on what was missing. and who were able to, needed to stick with or revert to v3 or switch to TDE. I found KDE4 by 4.14.xx (with the patched akonadi) to be as perfect as a desktop can be (It ranked up there with XPSP3). Some v3 feature loss and original v4 bugs yet remain open, or got wontfixed: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158556 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166565 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=234943 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=262695 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283366 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297217 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297219 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321781 While others make migration to v5 painful to varying degrees individually, more seriously collectively: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341143 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343246 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346059 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346122 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350853 This 24/7 system is running KDE3. Only my far less used installations run v4, and v5 here gets similarly little. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday 20 Aug 2015 16:29:07 Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 14:47:30, ianseeks wrote: On Thursday 20 Aug 2015 14:06:34 Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 10:37:59, ianseeks wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=KDE-Applications-15 .0 8 Ahead of the Plasma 5.4 release later this month and after last week's KDE Frameworks 5.13 release is KDE Applications 15.08. How am I supposed to keep track of these things?! Thats a lot of numbers to keep your eye on when reading about KDE From my point of view these kind of comments are very close to troll territory. I don't see it as that. I just thought it was an interesting take on what someone was reading and how they saw it. I can understand that there is a certain mental step involved in realizing that a vendor can in fact have more than one product. What I do not understand is why other vendors would be allowed to have multiple products but KDE would not. Why KDE should cease to develop applications and soley work on a desktop shell. Why Qt application developers should not benefit from third party Qt libraries and restrict themselves to those provided by the Qt project. i don't think thats being suggested or meant. I'm seeing this from a users point of view, not a developer. Simplicity is best from the users perspective. Maybe its the way the headline in the article was put together implying that that they all depended on each other but there seemed to be no common link. The different version numbers are a constant reminder to those who would rather see application development to be stoppped and libraries to be kept internal that their wished are just not the reality. IMHO this allegeded difficulty is just an attempt to gather support for their goal of having KDE deliver a desktop and nothing else. I don't see that intention or conclusion at all. I was just asking if a project is dependent on a fundamental part of the plumbing, should the version number reflect it? Its just the version numbering has a chance of getting out of hand and not being linked to each other. E.g. does the 5 in plasma 5.4 relate to the 5 in Frameworks 5.13? If so, what does the KDE-Applications-15.08 relate to regarding Frameworks etc. One of the initial proposals for the next Plasma version was Plasma 2, as this is what it would have been. There was concern that would cause confusion since many people equate the desktop with KDE itself, so that would have been KDE 2, which was already taken. So to allow people who only use KDE's desktop product to refer to it as KDE or Plasma with the same version number, 5 was chosen as the base version for what is actually Plasma 2. Similar reason for the Framework version, to avoid them being called KDE Libs 1. Seems this alternative naming wasn't used at all, so yes, it could have been KDE Frameworks 1. As for KDE Applications, being a bundle, similar to a Linux distribution being a collection of individual software items, the version chosen reflects the point in time of the release. Its version does not relate to any of the libraries being used by the applications it contains, it would be impossible to do that given the number of libraries involved. Would it be an idea to prefix all sub projects of KDE with a unified number relating to the framework it depends on so as an example, KDE 5 is made up of Plasma 5.5.4., Frameworks 5.13, KDE Applications 5.15.08. This will make it easier for us outside the development world to see a link between the sub projects. What would be the benefit of that. This would only artifically suggest relation where there is none. Microsoft Office 2015 is not called Microsoft Office 10.2015 just because it happens to be released at the time when Windows 10 is the vendor's current desktop product. Users could be confused, guess a relation and assume Office 2015 can only be used on Windows 10. While Microsoft would gladly have as many Windows users as possible to upgrade to Windows 10, they have abstained from creating this mental bridge. Most likely because they rather have people get Office 2015 even if they are just on Windows 7 or 8. I'm not sure if this MS Office is a good example because its a set of programs that are related to a function whereas KDE Applications are a collection of mostly unrelated programs. Will KDEPIM become KDEPIM5 once its all ported to KF5? Exactly why KDE Applications has a very different version scheme, to avoid people mistakingly assume a connection between the applications and Plasma desktop when there is none as far as using the applications is concerned. Cheers, Kevin Have i opened an old wound here with this question? Apologies if i have. regards Ian ___ This message is from the kde mailing list.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday 20 August 2015 2:55:02 PM Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 14:28:28, O.Sinclair wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2015 2:06:34 PM Kevin Krammer wrote: So there is one version for KDE's desktop product and one version for *all* application products. How do users of vendors cope who do not release all their applications in one go? How, for example, do users of Microsoft Office cope with the problem that Windows has a different version number than Office? Are they in panic when Skype does not share the version of one of these two? Are they close to dispair when .Net or Visual Studio bring in even more version numbers to the mix? Assuming they cope just fine, only keeping track of versions of products they themselves use, why would users of KDE software be incapable of doing the same? For sure users of KDE software have the same intelectual capacity as users of Microsoft software, do they not? In all honesty it is a bit confusing and your comparison does not quite hold as MS Office is an application you choose/buy, not part of the whole package so to speak. I am just beginning to get the whole concept myself but of course different release dates, different numbering and so on does not help. I am afraid I do not follow. MS Office is an application bundle that you can or can not choose/buy. KDE Applications is an application bundle that you can or can not choose. So the difference is that you buy one and not the other? What about Skype then? As far as I know it is still gratis. Cheers, Kevin Am not sure why you keep dragging Microsoft into this but I can safely assure there are users (I know cause I support quite a few of them) who have no inkling of the difference between Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. If I start talking about upgrading to Windows 10 they might very well assume I mean Office and catch a shock when the whole system has changed. And they don't give jack about what version of Skype they have so long as it works. The issue being raised via the forum post and later comments is rather that the current versioning system can be confusing even to some of us who have been around since KDE 3. kind regards, Sinclair ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday 20 August 2015 04:37:59 ianseeks wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=KDE-Applications-15.08 Ahead of the Plasma 5.4 release later this month and after last week's KDE Frameworks 5.13 release is KDE Applications 15.08. How am I supposed to keep track of these things?! Thats a lot of numbers to keep your eye on when reading about KDE Another of the many good reasons to stay on KDE3. -- A Caution to Everybody Consider the Auk; Becoming extinct because he forgot how to fly, and could only walk. Consider man, who may well become extinct Because he forgot how to walk and learned how to fly before he thinked. -- Ogden Nash ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 17:02:45, O.Sinclair wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2015 2:55:02 PM Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 14:28:28, O.Sinclair wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2015 2:06:34 PM Kevin Krammer wrote: So there is one version for KDE's desktop product and one version for *all* application products. How do users of vendors cope who do not release all their applications in one go? How, for example, do users of Microsoft Office cope with the problem that Windows has a different version number than Office? Are they in panic when Skype does not share the version of one of these two? Are they close to dispair when .Net or Visual Studio bring in even more version numbers to the mix? Assuming they cope just fine, only keeping track of versions of products they themselves use, why would users of KDE software be incapable of doing the same? For sure users of KDE software have the same intelectual capacity as users of Microsoft software, do they not? In all honesty it is a bit confusing and your comparison does not quite hold as MS Office is an application you choose/buy, not part of the whole package so to speak. I am just beginning to get the whole concept myself but of course different release dates, different numbering and so on does not help. I am afraid I do not follow. MS Office is an application bundle that you can or can not choose/buy. KDE Applications is an application bundle that you can or can not choose. So the difference is that you buy one and not the other? What about Skype then? As far as I know it is still gratis. Cheers, Kevin Am not sure why you keep dragging Microsoft into this but I can safely assure there are users (I know cause I support quite a few of them) who have no inkling of the difference between Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. I am using Microsoft as an example for a vendor with more than one product who also uses different versions, even also uses different version schemes for its products. While I do not myself frequent forums that discuss released of Microsoft software, I would be surprised if they also see these regular oh my god, this different versions are so complicated comments. But maybe I am wrong and this happens for every vendor. The issue being raised via the forum post and later comments is rather that the current versioning system can be confusing even to some of us who have been around since KDE 3. I can relate to the date based version scheme being uncommon and confusing, but the Plasma version should be pretty straight forward, no? I guess people hoped that the date based scheme was already popular enough due to being used by Ubuntu to not be confusing anymore, but maybe a single incrementing number would have been even better. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday 20 August 2015 13:27:07 Hussam Al-Tayeb wrote: On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 13:10 -0500, J. Leslie Turriff wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2015 11:44:32 John Layt wrote: On 20 August 2015 at 16:15, J. Leslie Turriff jlturr...@mail.com wrote: Another of the many good reasons to stay on KDE3. Now that is just trolling :-) True. I'm still really unhappy about the KDE4 upgrade fiasco and the lost functionality that still plagues KDE beyond KDE3. what functionality did KDE4 miss? Mmm...that was a bad word choice; not so much lost as made more difficult to use. Things that were simple to do, like panel configuration, are now much more complicated; I still haven't figured out how to make their backgrounds totally transparent. Some of the widgets are less configurable (removable media, network manager) than they were... The removal of the Hicolor Classic icon set is very bad IMO; pastel icons are not easy for me to distinguish; everyone's eyesight is not 20/20. I presume that they were removed because they weren't modern-looking enough; but the people who work on the desktop's looks seem to be more interested in artistic effects than usability. Things improved heavily throughout KDE4 lifecycle especially after the switch to baloo. I found KDE4 by 4.14.xx (with the patched akonadi) to be as perfect as a desktop can be (It ranked up there with XPSP3). I used to have weeks of uptime without memory increases or crashes or anything. The system resources footprint was minimal too. Perhaps I will have to try out kmail2 again; that was the big showstopper for me; it turned my i7 system into a boat anchor. I've recently started using KDE4 Plasma again, since I heard it had become more stable, but I still use a lot of the KDE3 apps. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html. -- A Caution to Everybody Consider the Auk; Becoming extinct because he forgot how to fly, and could only walk. Consider man, who may well become extinct Because he forgot how to walk and learned how to fly before he thinked. -- Ogden Nash ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On 20 August 2015 at 10:37, ianseeks ianse...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=KDE-Applications-15.08 Ahead of the Plasma 5.4 release later this month and after last week's KDE Frameworks 5.13 release is KDE Applications 15.08. How am I supposed to keep track of these things?! Thats a lot of numbers to keep your eye on when reading about KDE It's 'worse' than that: the Applications release is actually just a release number, in this case the August 2015 release, the individual apps inside that release can actually have different version numbers depending on what their developer gives them. Most people should just ignore Frameworks, it really doesn't concern end users. Watch the Plasma and individual Application version numbers and you're fine. The only change from our end is perhaps to less emphasise the monthly Frameworks releases in our PR so people don't fixate on their version number Maybe we could make it clearer in the Applications release that's it's just a convenient release cycle not some deep and meaningful version number. Most people don't give a damn what version of Office or Outlook or IE or whatever they have installed on Windows, neither should our users really. John. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On 20 August 2015 at 16:15, J. Leslie Turriff jlturr...@mail.com wrote: Another of the many good reasons to stay on KDE3. Now that is just trolling :-) John. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On 20 August 2015 at 14:47, ianseeks ianse...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Would it be an idea to prefix all sub projects of KDE with a unified number relating to the framework it depends on so as an example, KDE 5 is made up of Plasma 5.5.4., Frameworks 5.13, KDE Applications 5.15.08. This will make it easier for us outside the development world to see a link between the sub projects. Nope, because the Applications release number is just a release cycle number, it doesn't mean all apps are using the same version of our libraries, or even have the same release number. Currently Applications is a mix of KDE4 and KF5 based apps so giving it a 5 prefix makes no sense at all. John. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 17:02 +0200, O.Sinclair wrote: Am not sure why you keep dragging Microsoft into this but I can safely assure there are users (I know cause I support quite a few of them) who have no inkling of the difference between Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. If I start talking about upgrading to Windows 10 they might very well assume I mean Office and catch a shock when the whole system has changed. And they don't give jack about what version of Skype they have so long as it works. The issue being raised via the forum post and later comments is rather that the current versioning system can be confusing even to some of us who have been around since KDE 3. kind regards, Sinclair ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html. Microsoft Windows was designed from the beginning so people simply have to learn how to turn on a computer and they are ready to go. This made it less than necessary to learn computer literacy. I've dealt with Windows issues since before the Windows 95 days. While the situation is different now than it was 20 years ago, a large portion of Windows users don't care what version of software they use as long as it works and can open their files. Why did Windows XP take so long to die? No one cared to upgrade unless software required new versions of Windows. They waited till their old computers died and bought new ones with new versions of Windows pre -installed. Microsoft did try to keep Windows and Office versions synchronized at o ne point with Office 2000/Office XP but that was just a marketing strategy and was abandoned later. With regards to KDE, I think the major versioning change was due to the restructuring of the platform. A large portion of the duplication between kdelibs and Qt was fixed. A lot was upstreamed. The frameworks turned into basic Qt add-ons. Above that are the 'applications' and the 'desktop'. Since those two components don't necessarily require each other but instead depend on the frameworks, they don't need to keep the same versioning pattern. Note that it would imply that everything is ported to KF5 if 'applications' version also started with a 5.x which is not the case yet. I think users will feel better once everything is ported to KF5 and regressions are fixed. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] interesting comment from a poster on phoronix
On Thursday, 2015-08-20, 16:29:27, ianseeks wrote: On Thursday 20 Aug 2015 16:29:07 Kevin Krammer wrote: I can understand that there is a certain mental step involved in realizing that a vendor can in fact have more than one product. What I do not understand is why other vendors would be allowed to have multiple products but KDE would not. Why KDE should cease to develop applications and soley work on a desktop shell. Why Qt application developers should not benefit from third party Qt libraries and restrict themselves to those provided by the Qt project. i don't think thats being suggested or meant. I am not so sure. It is not uncommon to come across postings demanding that application developers stop working on the application they have worked on for years but instead work on whatever the poster in question would prefer. Calling for denying them the option of releasing when they believe it to make sense is very much in line with that. I'm seeing this from a users point of view, not a developer. Simplicity is best from the users perspective. Sure, it would be nice to not have any applications at all, not even have the notion of applications as something that is not part of the operating system or even the device, but this has been the case for decades now and even new platforms such as mobile devices still use it to some extend. I think that people either don't care about the difference of application vs base system or they understand it well enough to handle different release times and resulting different version numbers. Maybe its the way the headline in the article was put together implying that that they all depended on each other but there seemed to be no common link. That might very well be, but the comment did not sound like it was targetted at the article. The fact that you posted the link to a KDE list suggests that you also thought the poster directed it at KDE instead of the source of the confusion (i.e. the article trying to hard to crosslink to other articles at the same site). What would be the benefit of that. This would only artifically suggest relation where there is none. Microsoft Office 2015 is not called Microsoft Office 10.2015 just because it happens to be released at the time when Windows 10 is the vendor's current desktop product. Users could be confused, guess a relation and assume Office 2015 can only be used on Windows 10. While Microsoft would gladly have as many Windows users as possible to upgrade to Windows 10, they have abstained from creating this mental bridge. Most likely because they rather have people get Office 2015 even if they are just on Windows 7 or 8. I'm not sure if this MS Office is a good example because its a set of programs that are related to a function whereas KDE Applications are a collection of mostly unrelated programs. True, but my impression was that the alleged problem was that two products had different version numbers, not that one product was a combination of items. Microsoft is just one of the most well known vendors in a similar situation, so using two of their products as a comparison appeared sensible. The Adobe Creative Suite might be a comparable example for an application bundle, where the version of the bundle also is the version of the applications inside the bundle (apparently not all, the CS6 Master Collection contains mostly CS6 versions but also mentiones Flash Builder 4.6) Will KDEPIM become KDEPIM5 once its all ported to KF5? You mean Kontact? I think it has the version of the bundle it is in. Exactly why KDE Applications has a very different version scheme, to avoid people mistakingly assume a connection between the applications and Plasma desktop when there is none as far as using the applications is concerned. Cheers, Kevin Have i opened an old wound here with this question? Apologies if i have. I find the discussion actually quite valuable. For example I would not have considered that the poster on Phoronix was actually referring to the article as their source of confusion, while this is actually way more likely. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
