[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Saturday 05 March 2011 17:57:10 Duncan wrote: Dotan Cohen posted on Sat, 05 Mar 2011 16:07:56 +0200 as excerpted: I have two separate cases where seniors using KDE like to open many instances of the same application rather than use the already-open application. This is a user problem, not a KDE problem, but I wonder if there is technical solution. These users click the application's menu item to start using the application, even if there is already an open instance in the Taskbar or in the System Tray. Examples include Firefox, Skype, Solitaire (Windows executable running in Wine), and some others. Therefore, I'd like to write a wrapper script for each of these apps to check if there exists a running instance. If not, then open the application. If yes, then bring the running application to the foreground. If this is a general problem built into 4. KDE I will be going else where. I often have several spread sheets, pdf's and all sorts of things open in the way you describe ie. several instances. Under 3.xxx any number of instances of kde programs are fine. ( ;-) Other than mail for slightly understandable reasons ) Some browsers such a firefox are ok but opera will only fire up once. If KDE has dropped to this sort of level it really is a rather sad because if it's a general thing it's a sign of extremely badly conceived software organisation. Instances should run entirely independently of each other. Bit difficult with mail but not so hard on most other things. John ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
kde posted on Sun, 06 Mar 2011 01:31:16 + as excerpted: On Saturday 05 March 2011 17:57:10 Duncan wrote: Dotan Cohen posted on Sat, 05 Mar 2011 16:07:56 +0200 as excerpted: I have two separate cases where seniors using KDE like to open many instances of the same application rather than use the already-open application. This is a user problem, not a KDE problem, but I wonder if there is technical solution. These users click the application's menu item to start using the application, even if there is already an open instance in the Taskbar or in the System Tray. If this is a general problem built into 4. KDE I will be going else where. I often have several spread sheets, pdf's and all sorts of things open in the way you describe ie. several instances. Under 3.xxx any number of instances of kde programs are fine. ( ;-) Other than mail for slightly understandable reasons ) If KDE has dropped to this sort of level it really is a rather sad because if it's a general thing it's a sign of extremely badly conceived software organisation. Instances should run entirely independently of each other. Bit difficult with mail but not so hard on most other things. Don't worry, then. kde4 still runs fine with multiple instances of apps running. In fact, that's what Dotan C. was asking about, as that's what is causing the confusion with his senior users. But you shouldn't have a problem running more than one instance of an app if you want, and you're not the only one that would be going elsewhere, were that to become a kde restriction. Rest assured on that! =:^) ... Dotan, while writing the above, I thought of another angle, as well. Perhaps part of the problem for your seniors is kde's session management. If they quit kde with several app instances running and kde restarts them when it comes back up, but they don't understand that, they may be starting a new instance each time, not thinking that kde might have remembered what was running the last time and restarted it, so the instances gradually build up... Of course, you can make kde start with a clean session each time, if you wish. That would cure that issue. But what about going about it from the other angle? Have kde start all the apps they need, then save that as their session, and hide the launcher, so all they have is the taskbar. You could take the close button off the title bar too, making it more difficult to close the apps, and if they did, they'd only have to restart kde to have the pre-set session come back with all their apps. It may or may not work in practice, but it's certainly thinking about the problem from outside the box. Reverse the problem and it goes away. =:^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 03:16:34PM +, Duncan wrote: kde posted on Sun, 06 Mar 2011 01:31:16 + as excerpted: Perhaps part of the problem for your seniors is kde's session management. If they quit kde with several app instances running and kde restarts them when it comes back up, but they don't understand that, they may be starting a new instance each time, not thinking that kde might have remembered what was running the last time and restarted it, so the instances gradually build up... Of course, you can make kde start with a clean session each time, if you wish. That would cure that issue. But what about going about it from the other angle? Have kde start all the apps they need, then save that as their session, and hide the launcher, so all they have is the taskbar. You could take the close button off the title bar too, making it more difficult to close the apps, and if they did, they'd only have to restart kde to have the pre-set session come back with all their apps. It may or may not work in practice, but it's certainly thinking about the problem from outside the box. Reverse the problem and it goes away. =:^) Would this be a workable approach for the OP - wrap the app launch in a generalized mechanism, let's call the mechanism Larry (as I abhor the imprecision that comes with it, and have no better name). Larry handles each attempted application launch for the seniors. Here's what I envision happening: Larry looks at the proposed app, and if that app has one or more running instances, display a dialog, with a suitably large font, with a clickable list that distinguishes each running instance of the app. At one end of the list, distinguished visually in some way from other items in the list, is a nope, none of these, start a fresh new instance list item. Clicking a list item or using the arrow keys and the enter-key would switch to that instance or launch a new instance of the app. Larry should have a way to back-out of any action at all - cancel. And a Help button that has both an icon (I favor a question mark) and a (largish) text label to go with it. Larry could be assembled using bash, kdialog, and some tools such as xmumble and grep, right? (Mumble is a place-holder for an actual executable name. This isn't a fully worked example). #!/bin/bash itemlist=`xmumble | grep mumble | sort | ...` myitem=$(kdialog --menu Click what you want $itemlist) # activate the selection or launch new app /usr/bin/mumble myitem ... -- Charles Polisher ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 17:59, Charles Polisher cpol...@surewest.net wrote: Would this be a workable approach for the OP - wrap the app launch in a generalized mechanism, let's call the mechanism Larry (as I abhor the imprecision that comes with it, and have no better name). Larry handles each attempted application launch for the seniors. Here's what I envision happening: Larry looks at the proposed app, and if that app has one or more running instances, display a dialog, with a suitably large font, with a clickable list that distinguishes each running instance of the app. At one end of the list, distinguished visually in some way from other items in the list, is a nope, none of these, start a fresh new instance list item. Clicking a list item or using the arrow keys and the enter-key would switch to that instance or launch a new instance of the app. Larry should have a way to back-out of any action at all - cancel. And a Help button that has both an icon (I favor a question mark) and a (largish) text label to go with it. Larry could be assembled using bash, kdialog, and some tools such as xmumble and grep, right? (Mumble is a place-holder for an actual executable name. This isn't a fully worked example). #!/bin/bash itemlist=`xmumble | grep mumble | sort | ...` myitem=$(kdialog --menu Click what you want $itemlist) # activate the selection or launch new app /usr/bin/mumble myitem ... Charles, the only problem is brining the active window to the foreground. xdotool will bring to the foreground a window from the taskbar, but won't open a Skype window if Skype is running in the system tray. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
Dotan Cohen writes: That's actually not a bad idea! I already run a fix-kde script when they log into to reset the damage that they've done to the panel the last time: #!/bin/bash kbuildsycoca4 kquitapp plasma-desktop cp $HOME/.bin/kde-fix/plasma-desktoprc $HOME/.kde/share/config/plasma-desktoprc cp $HOME/.bin/kde-fix/plasma-desktop-appletsrc $HOME/.kde/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc kstart plasma-desktop Nice, I will use that, too. Until now I copied the files manually from by backup when logged out. Plasma gets corrupted fairly often here, the plasma stuff appears on the wrong desktops, or plasmoids are missing. I also make a backup of .kde4 before I dare to save the session, because this also often corrupts the session. Wonko ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
Dotan Cohen writes: That's actually not a bad idea! I already run a fix-kde script when they log into to reset the damage that they've done to the panel the last time: #!/bin/bash kbuildsycoca4 kquitapp plasma-desktop cp $HOME/.bin/kde-fix/plasma-desktoprc $HOME/.kde/share/config/plasma-desktoprc cp $HOME/.bin/kde-fix/plasma-desktop-appletsrc $HOME/.kde/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc kstart plasma-desktop Nice, I will use that, too. Until now I copied the files manually from by backup when logged out. Plasma gets corrupted fairly often here, the plasma stuff appears on the wrong desktops, or plasmoids are missing. I also make a backup of .kde4 before I dare to save the session, because this also often corrupts the session. Wonko ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On 5 March 2011 20:31, kde@mail.kde.org wrote: On Saturday 05 March 2011 17:57:10 Duncan wrote: Dotan Cohen posted on Sat, 05 Mar 2011 16:07:56 +0200 as excerpted: I have two separate cases where seniors using KDE like to open many instances of the same application rather than use the already-open application. This is a user problem, not a KDE problem, but I wonder if there is technical solution. These users click the application's menu item to start using the application, even if there is already an open instance in the Taskbar or in the System Tray. Examples include Firefox, Skype, Solitaire (Windows executable running in Wine), and some others. Therefore, I'd like to write a wrapper script for each of these apps to check if there exists a running instance. If not, then open the application. If yes, then bring the running application to the foreground. If this is a general problem built into 4. KDE I will be going else where. I often have several spread sheets, pdf's and all sorts of things open in the way you describe ie. several instances. Under 3.xxx any number of instances of kde programs are fine. ( ;-) Other than mail for slightly understandable reasons ) Some browsers such a firefox are ok but opera will only fire up once. Just as an aside, this is an Opera thing. Opera never likes opening multiple windows of itself. I just tried opening a new instance of Opera now, but it only opened a new tab. If KDE has dropped to this sort of level it really is a rather sad because if it's a general thing it's a sign of extremely badly conceived software organisation. Instances should run entirely independently of each other. Bit difficult with mail but not so hard on most other things. John ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:30:51 +0530, Steven Sroka sroka.ste...@gmail.com wrote: Just as an aside, this is an Opera thing. Opera never likes opening multiple windows of itself. I just tried opening a new instance of Opera now, but it only opened a new tab. that's the default behavior which can be changed at tools-preferences-advanced-tabs-additional tab options-open windows instead of tabs or if you click ctrl + n in a running opera instance, a new one is created. i don't use that much, prefer my tabs in the same window, but didn't see any indication that opera never likes this. -- phani. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
Dotan Cohen writes: I have two separate cases where seniors using KDE like to open many instances of the same application rather than use the already-open application. This is a user problem, not a KDE problem, but I wonder if there is technical solution. Switching to Gnome, maybe? I think there the default behaviour is to not allow multiple instances of the same application. These users click the application's menu item to start using the application, even if there is already an open instance in the Taskbar or in the System Tray. Examples include Firefox, Skype, Solitaire (Windows executable running in Wine), and some others. Therefore, I'd like to write a wrapper script for each of these apps to check if there exists a running instance. If not, then open the application. If yes, then bring the running application to the foreground. Can this be done? I could probably grep ps aux for the application and to get it's pid, but how to bring it to the foreground? Thanks! You could use xlsclients -al to get the list of running applications and their window IDs, and then xdotool windowactivate windowid to bring it to the foreground. Wonko ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 20:13:37 +0530, Alex Schuster wo...@wonkology.org wrote: Dotan Cohen writes: I have two separate cases where seniors using KDE like to open many instances of the same application rather than use the already-open application. This is a user problem, not a KDE problem, but I wonder if there is technical solution. Switching to Gnome, maybe? I think there the default behaviour is to not allow multiple instances of the same application. doesn't this depend on the application, not the DE? in many cases app.s can be configured via 'settings' or conf. files, what they'll do when they are called while an instance is running already (konqueror, per ex.). in some cases you can add a command line argument to force a certain behavior, like re-use of an existing instance (firefox). with skype i couldn't figure out how to make it re-use it's existing instance, unfortunately. These users click the application's menu item to start using the application, even if there is already an open instance in the Taskbar or in the System Tray. Examples include Firefox, Skype, Solitaire (Windows executable running in Wine), and some others. Therefore, I'd like to write a wrapper script for each of these apps to check if there exists a running instance. If not, then open the application. If yes, then bring the running application to the foreground. Can this be done? I could probably grep ps aux for the application and to get it's pid, but how to bring it to the foreground? Thanks! You could use xlsclients -al to get the list of running applications and their window IDs, and then xdotool windowactivate windowid to bring it to the foreground. gave this a short try, but didn't get anything useful. didn't try very much though; quite possibly this may work if one really tries... -- phani. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
Dotan Cohen posted on Sat, 05 Mar 2011 16:07:56 +0200 as excerpted: I have two separate cases where seniors using KDE like to open many instances of the same application rather than use the already-open application. This is a user problem, not a KDE problem, but I wonder if there is technical solution. These users click the application's menu item to start using the application, even if there is already an open instance in the Taskbar or in the System Tray. Examples include Firefox, Skype, Solitaire (Windows executable running in Wine), and some others. Therefore, I'd like to write a wrapper script for each of these apps to check if there exists a running instance. If not, then open the application. If yes, then bring the running application to the foreground. Can this be done? I could probably grep ps aux for the application and to get it's pid, but how to bring it to the foreground? Thanks! Try the pgrep (process grep) command for your first bit. =:^) But for window manipulation... as it happens I just needed such a thing and thus have the perfect app for you! wmctrl ! It handles... switching to the appropriate desktop, activating, moving/resizing, maximizing X/Y/ both, closing... more. And since it operates with window titles or windowclasses (you can use kwin's window rules click-to-autodetect feature to find this), you shouldn't even need the pgrep step. =:^) Both the above have manpages... and while the wmctrl manpage suggests zenity, a gnome dialog scripting app, for adding more interactivity (wouldn't be needed for your current use, but...), the kde alternative for that is of course kdialog, which I've used myself. kdialog is a bit quirky (reminds me of the MS Windows 2 era), resulting in several successive single-purpose popup windows instead of the more typical multi- purpose dialog window, but it does get the job done, allowing you to present a UI with which to select or type things in, if that's needed. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 16:43, Alex Schuster wo...@wonkology.org wrote: Switching to Gnome, maybe? I think there the default behaviour is to not allow multiple instances of the same application. Thanks. I'll look into that. These users are unsavy enough to not care about their environment. You could use xlsclients -al to get the list of running applications and their window IDs, and then xdotool windowactivate windowid to bring it to the foreground. Thank you! This is going to be a pain as the windowid is not on the same line as the application name, but at least now I have the critical tools that I need. Thank you Alex! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set up Menu items such that if an instance is already running, the running instance is brought to the foreground?
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 15:51, phanisvara das listm...@phanisvara.com wrote: doesn't this depend on the application, not the DE? in many cases app.s can be configured via 'settings' or conf. files, what they'll do when they are called while an instance is running already (konqueror, per ex.). in some cases you can add a command line argument to force a certain behavior, like re-use of an existing instance (firefox). Yes, but not all applications support this. with skype i couldn't figure out how to make it re-use it's existing instance, unfortunately. That is one of the main offenders. They will have over 10 Skype instances running! You could use xlsclients -al to get the list of running applications and their window IDs, and then xdotool windowactivate windowid to bring it to the foreground. gave this a short try, but didn't get anything useful. didn't try very much though; quite possibly this may work if one really tries... I did manage to locate and bring to foreground a Dolphin window with this. It is doable so long as a window is open, I need to check for applications such as Skype that may be running as a service. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
