[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #25 from Claudius Ellsel --- (In reply to Carlos from comment #24) > Cludius: I don't understand your second experiment quite well. When you > upscaled x2 you just took the small icons and duplicated everything? If > that's the case, it might be worth for comparative purposes but I don't > think as a scaling technique that would improve too much on plain upscaling, > since it's not adding any new information (like, say, a handcrafted version > or an upscaled svg version). You mean my first experiment? I upscaled in the first series and for the second series I downscaled (after learning that icons are at least in theory only downscaled), both times starting with (I think) a screenshot of a desktop with 1x or 2x scale factor respectively. The tray icons in the second approach's 2x source are just looking that small originally. Does that help? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 Carlos changed: What|Removed |Added CC||carlosjosep...@gmail.com --- Comment #24 from Carlos --- > Linear looks to me even better. I believe both Mutter and Sway use linear but fallback to nearest for the special case of integer scaling (see [1] and [2]). xrandr uses bicubic (although that can be changed to nearest [3]). I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, but I find all of them work rather fine compared to how tray icons scale in Plasma panel. We are probably seeing upscaling there and I suppose there are no handcrafted 2x icons to downscale from. Cludius: I don't understand your second experiment quite well. When you upscaled x2 you just took the small icons and duplicated everything? If that's the case, it might be worth for comparative purposes but I don't think as a scaling technique that would improve too much on plain upscaling, since it's not adding any new information (like, say, a handcrafted version or an upscaled svg version). --- [1] https://github.com/swaywm/wlroots/issues/1770 [2] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/845 [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/comments/90bras/tip_nearestneighbor_xrandr_display_scaling/ -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 soredake changed: What|Removed |Added CC||ndrzj1...@relay.firefox.com -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 Claudius Ellsel changed: What|Removed |Added Resolution|WAITINGFORINFO |--- Status|NEEDSINFO |REPORTED --- Comment #23 from Claudius Ellsel --- Setting back to "reported" as I think I provided all required information. Did not know that I am supposed to change the state myself and did not want to come off rude by changing it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #22 from Bug Janitor Service --- Dear Bug Submitter, This bug has been in NEEDSINFO status with no change for at least 15 days. Please provide the requested information as soon as possible and set the bug status as REPORTED. Due to regular bug tracker maintenance, if the bug is still in NEEDSINFO status with no change in 30 days the bug will be closed as RESOLVED > WORKSFORME due to lack of needed information. For more information about our bug triaging procedures please read the wiki located here: https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Bug_triaging If you have already provided the requested information, please mark the bug as REPORTED so that the KDE team knows that the bug is ready to be confirmed. Thank you for helping us make KDE software even better for everyone! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #21 from Claudius Ellsel --- (In reply to Roman Gilg from comment #20) > Interesting comparison. Linear looks to me even better. Might there be other > algorithms improving upon that though? Yes, there might. Although from what I read NoHalo in GIMP already seems to do a pretty decent job for most cases (https://www.gimpusers.com/system/tutorial_steps/3061/sampling-original.jpg), although that might not cover the special use case of KDE. There seems to have also been a LoBlur algorithm be planned for GIMP (https://www.gimpusers.com/tutorials/whats-new-in-gimp-2-10 point 4) in 2012, which is not available today. Since GIMP is probably only using known approaches, there might be already at least theoretical algorithms out there for this use case. Also another reference for the NoHalo algorithm in GIMP: http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/advanced-samplers-for-gegl-to-be-crowdfunded -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #20 from Roman Gilg --- Interesting comparison. Linear looks to me even better. Might there be other algorithms improving upon that though? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #18 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130786 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130786=edit Downscaling with linear algorithm -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #19 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130787 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130787=edit Downscaling with NoHalo algorithm -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #17 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130785 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130785=edit Original used for downscaling -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #16 from Claudius Ellsel --- Alright, I have done some testing with the downscaling from a 2x version (took a screenshot on X11 with that scale factor, had to manually double the size of the panel, too). Did not work to take that screenshot on Wayland due to https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425226. I tested Linear against NoHalo scaling the version down by a factor of roughly 0.6 and there is almost no noticeable difference. So it seems that downscaling works good in this use case pretty much regardless of which algorithm is used. The reason why I opened this was https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408215. This might have a different root cause, though. Also there is a noticeable blurred notification tray icon in the panel on Wayland with fractional scaling applied. This might also be related to some different root cause, though. Unfortunately, due to https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425226 I cannot create a screenshot depicting the problem. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #15 from Claudius Ellsel --- (In reply to Nate Graham from comment #14) > David, I think Claudius is using the term "scaling" as a user understands > the term, not as a KWin developer understands the term. Looking at the > attachments, clearly there are differences in the different ways that images > can be scaled up. Knowing that fractional scaling downscales from a doubled > pixel-perfect version, it might be interesting to repeat the tests with > downscaled images. Ah, I see my mistake now. Roman Gilg already pointed that out, but I did not understand it then. I just assumed it would be scaled up. Downscaling obviously is the better approach to implementation, since no information has to be interpolated, so that makes sense. This renders the different algorithm comparisons I posted rather pointless. However, I read the the NoHalo algorithms were actually developed for downscaling in particular and that blurriness can also happen when scaling down. So the general idea that there might be better algorithms still seems to be valid. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #14 from Nate Graham --- David, I think Claudius is using the term "scaling" as a user understands the term, not as a KWin developer understands the term. Looking at the attachments, clearly there are differences in the different ways that images can be scaled up. Knowing that fractional scaling downscales from a doubled pixel-perfect version, it might be interesting to repeat the tests with downscaled images. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #13 from David Edmundson --- I said the specific thing in your screenshot shouldn't be upscaled. If fractional scaling was applied that could result in a downscale of the original client texture. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #12 from Claudius Ellsel --- (In reply to Roman Gilg from comment #11) > (In reply to Claudius Ellsel from comment #10) > > So when applying fractional scaling, say a factor of 1.25 the icons, mouse > > cursor etc. are not upscaled? > > They are rendered at 2-times the normal size and then downscaled. That's the > theory, in practice there can always be issues. Do you mean upscaled? A factor of 1.25 increases the size of the icons. This was my whole question, as David Edmundson stated there wouldn't be upscaling. > I believe sometimes Qt Wayland clients do not update their size when > changing the scale factor. And then there is of course Xwayland. The size is updated properly, only they are blurred. This is what this issue is about. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 Roman Gilg changed: What|Removed |Added CC||subd...@gmail.com --- Comment #11 from Roman Gilg --- (In reply to Claudius Ellsel from comment #10) > So when applying fractional scaling, say a factor of 1.25 the icons, mouse > cursor etc. are not upscaled? They are rendered at 2-times the normal size and then downscaled. That's the theory, in practice there can always be issues. I believe sometimes Qt Wayland clients do not update their size when changing the scale factor. And then there is of course Xwayland. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #10 from Claudius Ellsel --- (In reply to Christoph Feck from comment #8) > Is this with Wayland? KWin on X11 doesn't scale. Yes this is on Wayland. As I said, this is about fractional scaling set in the view settings. KWin might be the wrong product to file this. (In reply to David Edmundson from comment #9) > There is no upscaling. If there is you've got a different bug. Please check So when applying fractional scaling, say a factor of 1.25 the icons, mouse cursor etc. are not upscaled? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 David Edmundson changed: What|Removed |Added Status|REPORTED|NEEDSINFO CC||k...@davidedmundson.co.uk Resolution|--- |WAITINGFORINFO --- Comment #9 from David Edmundson --- There is no upscaling. If there is you've got a different bug. Please check -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #8 from Christoph Feck --- Is this with Wayland? KWin on X11 doesn't scale. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added CC||n...@kde.org --- Comment #7 from Nate Graham --- This might be done at the Qt level, in fact. But I'll let the KWin developers give you the truth since that's just speculation. :) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #6 from Claudius Ellsel --- More general comparison and background: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_gallery_of_image_scaling_algorithms - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel-art_scaling_algorithms#/media/File:Pixel-Art_Scaling_Comparison.png - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #3 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130757 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130757=edit Cubic algorithm -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #5 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130759 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130759=edit LoHalo algorithm -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #4 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130758 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130758=edit NoHalo algorithm -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #1 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130755 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130755=edit No algorithm for scaling selected -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[kwin] [Bug 425190] Improve scaling of the desktop
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425190 --- Comment #2 from Claudius Ellsel --- Created attachment 130756 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=130756=edit Linear algorithm -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
