[plasmashell] [Bug 433281] Always-visible buttons cover information and are distracting

2021-03-01 Thread Nate Graham
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433281

--- Comment #4 from Nate Graham  ---
I opened a Phab task about this so we can have the discussion in one place
rather than scattered around all over the place. Everyone is invited to
participate, of course! However as this is a place for developer discussions,
please think before you post and try to honestly and openly consider other
people's points of view. :)

Also try to avoid walls of text as people don't tend to read them. :) Brevity
is appreciated!


https://phabricator.kde.org/T14172

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[plasmashell] [Bug 433281] Always-visible buttons cover information and are distracting

2021-02-26 Thread Riccardo Robecchi
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433281

--- Comment #3 from Riccardo Robecchi  ---
I understand the point made in the other bug report, but I think there is a
problem with that line of reasoning. Do we have buttons on windows that say
"close", "maximise" and "minimise"? No, because we expect the user to either:
A: be familiar with how window controls work;
B: try a few actions and learn by themselves how things work.
The first option assumes that you have gone through the second one or that
someone else told you how things work. The second one is how we learn in
general.
The same happens with tray icons: they're not stylised as buttons. They're just
icons. How can a person know they are supposed to click on them to get access
to the related features? I'll make an example regarding this using mobile
platforms: on Android and iOS they're just icons, so you're not supposed to do
anything with them. By fiddling around, you can discover that doing a downward
gesture opens the notification shade and that from there you can do a few
things. You can imagine my surprise, then, when I used Ubuntu Touch for the
first time and I discovered that on that platform the icons are actually meant
to be used a bit like on KDE! Discoverability on Android, iOS and Ubuntu is
zero - you have to try for yourself to learn how things work.
My point is that finding the action buttons might be difficult the first time
you use them, but from then on it's pretty logical and easy to find and use
them. So yes, discoverability for the first use might be an issue but, if
hovering is used, then I can argue that the action required to discover the
features is not a very complex and long one that requires lots of effort and
dedication from the user. It's the simplest you can think.
Moreover, hovering actions are quite common among user interfaces. We might say
that the equivalent in the mobile space is a long-press: it may not be
immediately, unequivocally clear that you need to perform that action in order
for the thing you want to happen, but after the first time you experience it it
is quite self-evident.
As you say, hovering is used in multiple places throughout Plasma (the first
example that comes to my mind is the "colours" section of the settings), so
it's not a concept that is only and exclusively used here. It's one that most
people that have used a computer in their lives are familiar with.
To wrap it all up, I think we have two options:
- provide better discoverability for a basic feature that is widely used
throughout the rest of the Plasma experience at the expense of readability,
clarity and access to parts of the UI;
- provide better readability, clarity and full access to the UI at the expense
of the feature not being immediately discoverable to the few people who have
rarely used a computer in the past 20 years (now that might be a bit of an
exaggeration, but the concept of hovering was there well before Windows 2000
and its use is extensive on any platform and UI concept out there).
I stand with the second option.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 433281] Always-visible buttons cover information and are distracting

2021-02-26 Thread Nate Graham
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433281

--- Comment #2 from Nate Graham  ---
I'm tempted to just revert the "no more hover" change because we use hover all
over the place already and it already does handle touch.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 433281] Always-visible buttons cover information and are distracting

2021-02-26 Thread Nate Graham
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433281

Nate Graham  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REPORTED|CONFIRMED
   See Also||https://bugs.kde.org/show_b
   ||ug.cgi?id=428624
   Keywords||usability
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #1 from Nate Graham  ---
This was changed in response to a request in Bug 428624. We can revert the
change, but then we will have to re-open that bug report.

I sort of agree with you on the issue at hand: having all these always-visible
buttons is kind of ugly, and causes long text to be elided. That's all true.

However making them appear only on hover re-introduces issues with
discoverability, particularly on touch for 2-in-1 devices in tablet mode, since
there is no concept of hover there.

I'm sort of at a loss for what to do. VDG input would be appreciated.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 433281] Always-visible buttons cover information and are distracting

2021-02-19 Thread Riccardo Robecchi
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433281

Riccardo Robecchi  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||n...@kde.org

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