Re: Big Hairy Audacious Goal: Privacy Software

[Dr.-Ing. Christoph Cullmann]

Hi,

> On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:58:32 +0200
> Alexander Neundorf  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017 M08 18, Fri 18:14:22 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
>> > "In 5 years, KDE software enables and promotes privacy"
>> 
>>  ... does that kind of imply that we need to offer a range of
>> applications which cover the most privacy-sensitive topics, e.g. a
>> competetive web browser ?
> 
> On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, our goal should be realistic,
> and I don't think "offering our own competitive web browser" ticks that
> box. We've been there, we've done that, we succeeded to some degree in
> the most spectacular way (think where KHTML successors are shipped and
> what they brought to the eco system) and failed in other dimensions
> (think about the state of KHTML and our own web browser offering
> nowadays).
> 
> What's probably a lot more realistic and worthwhile is
> to we make integration for web browsers that do respect privacy work
> really well. Integrating Tor really well would also be a good idea in
> that regard.
Actually, we are ATM trying to incubate a new "browser" as replacement for
the old Konqueror that is more or less unmaintained and will then vanish.

(was discussed during the konqueror BoF at Akademy this year)

It is QWebEngine based, see

http://blog.qupzilla.com/2017/08/qupzilla-is-moving-under-kde-and.html
https://community.kde.org/Incubator/Projects/QupZilla

But this process is only at its early stage.

Greetings
Christoph

-- 
- Dr.-Ing. Christoph Cullmann -
AbsInt Angewandte Informatik GmbH  Email: cullm...@absint.com
Science Park 1 Tel:   +49-681-38360-22
66123 Saarbrücken  Fax:   +49-681-38360-20
GERMANYWWW:   http://www.AbsInt.com

Geschäftsführung: Dr.-Ing. Christian Ferdinand
Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Saarbrücken, HRB 11234

Re: Big Hairy Audacious Goal: Privacy Software

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:58:32 +0200
Alexander Neundorf  wrote:

> On 2017 M08 18, Fri 18:14:22 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > "In 5 years, KDE software enables and promotes privacy"  
> 
>  ... does that kind of imply that we need to offer a range of
> applications which cover the most privacy-sensitive topics, e.g. a
> competetive web browser ?

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, our goal should be realistic,
and I don't think "offering our own competitive web browser" ticks that
box. We've been there, we've done that, we succeeded to some degree in
the most spectacular way (think where KHTML successors are shipped and
what they brought to the eco system) and failed in other dimensions
(think about the state of KHTML and our own web browser offering
nowadays). 

What's probably a lot more realistic and worthwhile is
to we make integration for web browsers that do respect privacy work
really well. Integrating Tor really well would also be a good idea in
that regard.
-- 
sebas

http://vizZzion.org   ⦿http://www.kde.org

Re: Mission has been accepted

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Sebastian Kügler  wrote:
> On maandag 21 augustus 2017 10:48:06 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
>> What's a bit unclear to me: Is the strategy as we put it into the wiki also
>> considered "Accepted"? To me, it is, with a big *but*: While it is too
>> vague, we need to figure out how *exactly* we want to fulfill our mission,
>> and we're doing so with the goals we started working on.
>>
>> So, the whole Wiki page is "accepted", not just the "Mission" bit, right?

Yes. Sorry, should have been clearer.

> Moreover, we should publicize this, who wants to work on this? (I'm thinking
> primarily a Dot story, but also how it should be presented on KDE's web
> presence. Ken, any ideas?)

Agreed. Does anyone in the promo team want to take this on?


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
KDE e.V. Board of Directors / KDE Community Working Group
http://kde.org - http://open-advice.org

Re: Big Hairy Audacious Goal: Privacy Software

[Agustin Benito (toscalix)]

Hi,

when talking about privacy / security, it comes to my mind the idea of
trustable software: https://trustable.gitlab.io/

Best Regards
Agustin Benito (toscalix)
KDE eV member
Profile: http://es.linkedin.com/in/toscalix


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Alexander Neundorf  wrote:
> On 2017 M08 18, Fri 18:14:22 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I spent some time thinking and working on a proposal for the big hairy
>> audacious goal (1), the goal that the KDE community sets for itself to
>> strive for in the next five years. (Context: re-read the thread started
>> by Kevin with the subject "Proposal: Have the Community Set Ambitious
>> Goals for Itself".
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Hairy_Audacious_Goal
>>
>> I'll try to keep this email short, but I guess I won't be able to,
>> given scope, importance, complexity and the general mess in my head
>> regarding this topic.
>>
>> What I wanted to do...
>>
>> I wanted to write a goal that is snappy to read, easy to understand,
>> engaging, worthwhile and measurable. What I came up with so far is:
>>
>> "In 5 years, KDE software enables and promotes privacy"
>
>  ... does that kind of imply that we need to offer a range of applications
> which cover the most privacy-sensitive topics, e.g. a competetive web browser
> ?
>
> Alex
>

Re: Big Hairy Audacious Goal: Privacy Software

[Alexander Neundorf]

On 2017 M08 18, Fri 18:14:22 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I spent some time thinking and working on a proposal for the big hairy
> audacious goal (1), the goal that the KDE community sets for itself to
> strive for in the next five years. (Context: re-read the thread started
> by Kevin with the subject "Proposal: Have the Community Set Ambitious
> Goals for Itself".
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Hairy_Audacious_Goal
> 
> I'll try to keep this email short, but I guess I won't be able to,
> given scope, importance, complexity and the general mess in my head
> regarding this topic.
> 
> What I wanted to do...
> 
> I wanted to write a goal that is snappy to read, easy to understand,
> engaging, worthwhile and measurable. What I came up with so far is:
> 
> "In 5 years, KDE software enables and promotes privacy"

 ... does that kind of imply that we need to offer a range of applications 
which cover the most privacy-sensitive topics, e.g. a competetive web browser 
?

Alex

Re: KDE exhibiting at freenode live in Bristol, maybe?

[Boudewijn Rempt]

That sounds like a lot of fun! I've already entered for the qt world summit,
though, and this is awfully close. I wonder whether we can figure out whether
we can reuse the assets we're creating for the qt world summit for this...

I'm also wondering whether I and Irina can manage to do go there... I can do
booth duty, and we could possibly tack on a week of vacation time in England,
in another place than London. Would be a first for me.

Anyway, I'd like KDE to show up there.

Boud

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017, Christian Loosli wrote:

> Dear list, 
> 
> I hope this is not considered spam, as it is me somewhat wearing multiple 
> hats 
> (freenode and KDE): 
> 
> freenode has a live conference, called freenode #live, taking place at At-
> Bristol Science Centre in Bristol, UK, October 28-29th 2017 - https://
> freenode.net/news/freenode-live-exhibit and  https://freenode.live/ has 
> further details. 
> 
> Among speakers we also have room for exhibitors. Knowing that KDE in the past 
> did exhibit at other conferences like FOSDEM:  would it make sense to have a 
> KDE stand there, with some promo  / stuff to show? 
> 
> It's the first time #live takes place, so obviously it is a lot smaller than 
> e.g. FOSDEM, but I think we already have an interesting list of speakers and 
> thus hope to attract people from various FOSS projects, developers, users, 
> translators and just people interested, to drop by. So of course it would be 
> fancy if KDE also had some presence there. 
> 
> If you are interested or need more details, feel free to poke me either via E-
> Mail or of course on IRC.  I'll also gladly lend a helping hand, but I assume 
> I'll be mostly busy doing exactly that on a larger scale, so I e.g. can't do 
> the stand myself. 
> 
> Thanks in advance, kind regards, 
> 
> Christian   (Fuchs on freenode)
> 

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.krita.org, http://www.valdyas.org

KDE exhibiting at freenode live in Bristol, maybe?

[Christian Loosli]

Dear list, 

I hope this is not considered spam, as it is me somewhat wearing multiple hats 
(freenode and KDE): 

freenode has a live conference, called freenode #live, taking place at At-
Bristol Science Centre in Bristol, UK, October 28-29th 2017 - https://
freenode.net/news/freenode-live-exhibit and  https://freenode.live/ has 
further details. 

Among speakers we also have room for exhibitors. Knowing that KDE in the past 
did exhibit at other conferences like FOSDEM:  would it make sense to have a 
KDE stand there, with some promo  / stuff to show? 

It's the first time #live takes place, so obviously it is a lot smaller than 
e.g. FOSDEM, but I think we already have an interesting list of speakers and 
thus hope to attract people from various FOSS projects, developers, users, 
translators and just people interested, to drop by. So of course it would be 
fancy if KDE also had some presence there. 

If you are interested or need more details, feel free to poke me either via E-
Mail or of course on IRC.  I'll also gladly lend a helping hand, but I assume 
I'll be mostly busy doing exactly that on a larger scale, so I e.g. can't do 
the stand myself. 

Thanks in advance, kind regards, 

Christian   (Fuchs on freenode)

Re: QtWS 2017 update: team rally call; asset prep; Telegram group

[Paul Brown]

On Monday, 21 August 2017 13:10:27 CEST Eike Hein wrote:
> On 08/21/2017 06:13 PM, Paul Brown wrote:
> > We'll co-ordinate with Jens so that the content matches the format of the
> > flyer.
> 
> Here's the Phab task used for coordination:
> 
> https://phabricator.kde.org/T6840
> 
> Everyone interested in working on flyer/demo content or expecting to do
> booth duty and needing to know the party line: Please participate and/or
> check and catch up occasionally!
> 
> > Paul
> 
> Cheers,
> Eike

Flyer subtask: https://phabricator.kde.org/T6841

Booth subtask: https://phabricator.kde.org/T6846

Wall posters subtask: https://phabricator.kde.org/T6845

Demo loops subtask: https://phabricator.kde.org/T6844
-- 
Promotion & Communication

www: http://kde.org
Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity



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Re: KDE at Qt World Summit 2017 - let's make it the best yet!

[David Edmundson]

​If there's sitll space, I'm happy to come help out.

David

Re: QtWS 2017 update: team rally call; asset prep; Telegram group

[Eike Hein]

On 08/21/2017 06:13 PM, Paul Brown wrote:
> We'll co-ordinate with Jens so that the content matches the format of the 
> flyer.

Here's the Phab task used for coordination:

https://phabricator.kde.org/T6840

Everyone interested in working on flyer/demo content or expecting to do
booth duty and needing to know the party line: Please participate and/or
check and catch up occasionally!


> Paul

Cheers,
Eike

Re: KDE at Qt World Summit 2017 - let's make it the best yet!

[Eike Hein]

Heya,

Paul opened a Phab task on the KDE Promo workboard which I think
we can use to coordinate content:

https://phabricator.kde.org/T6840

I've added a few people there and seeded the ticket with a recap
of what I think we need to communicate to the audience at QtWS.

If you're interested in working on the flyer/demos/banners/etc
or expect to do booth duty and need to know the party line, please
participate in and/or frequently check the ticket!


Cheers,
Eike

Re: KDE at Qt World Summit 2017 - let's make it the best yet!

[Jens]

I am all up for doing promo material as stated. Do we have a theme we wanna go 
with (that usually help), I mean with the KDE Mission now moving quickly 
through we could do something based on that? Or is it something we specifically 
wanna push for, KDE's direct connection to Qt perhaps?

On Tuesday, 8 August 2017 19.18.04 CEST Eike Hein wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Berlin, Germany will once again host a Qt World Summit this year, on
> October 10th through 12th. This follows on from the Qt Contributor
> Summit on October 9th and 10th.
> 
> As in previous years, we want KDE To have a strong presence at this
> event, which draws much of the wider Qt community. We're an important
> part of the community and we make lots of things that are interesting
> and useful to Qt developers, so we should be there. It's a great
> opportunity to network as well as watch some interesting talks.
> 
> I've stepped up to coordinate KDE's presence at QtWS this year. Sune,
> who has done it in recent years, is a little to busy this year and
> will be number #2.
> 
> As usual we're going to have table space in the booth area (I did
> some shifts there during QtWS'15, which was a thoroughly good time),
> where we want to promote our products, engage people and answer
> products.
> 
> We also want KDE to appear as a community partner again, and if
> possible place promo materials around the event (e.g. in the
> attendee bag, have our logo slapped on things, etc).
> 
> And since The Qt Company is allowing our team to attend QtWS for
> free, we will likely also chip in with running the event again, e.g.
> by chairing some of the talks on the schedule.
> 
> To make all of this happen we'll need the following:
> 
> - Helpers! Who wants to be an awesome person and go to QtWS and rep
>   KDE there? Who can make it to Berlin in the timeframe? (I know
>   there's a KDE Edu sprint and a Blue Systems dev sprint going on,
>   so no excuses! :P)
> 
>   Everyone interested and willing to commit please speak up, or get
>   in touch with me directly. You will be able to express a pre-
>   ference for booth and talk chairing duty which we'll try to
>   respect when drawing up the duty roster. You'll get lots of karma
>   bonus points if you're willing to help with booth setup and tear
>   down.
> 
>   There will be a limit to how many people we can send, so please
>   don't be upset if we can't bring you along in the end. But please
>   do try!
> 
>   If travel/accomodation expenses would be the only thing keeping
>   you, get in touch and we can look into that.
> 
> - Figure out what we want to show at the booth this year. Who wants
>   to make cool demo loops or slides?
> 
> - Make promo materials. We'll need to review and update our posters
>   (if anyone has the 2015/2016 posters, please link them in reply)
>   and flyers. And do it early enough so we can get them refined and
>   printed in time. Jens Reuterberg has promised to help make things
>   look great!
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Eike

Re: Mission has been accepted

[Sebastian Kügler]

On maandag 21 augustus 2017 10:48:06 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On zaterdag 19 augustus 2017 21:58:26 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> 
> 
> > Given that there were no further comments I have now removed the draft
> > tag from the Mission at https://community.kde.org/KDE/Mission.
> > Thank you everyone for your comments and the fruitful discussion. I am
> > grateful for your input and help in getting this written down. I hope
> > next to the vision and manifesto it will become an important guiding
> > document for us.
> > 
> > The next step is setting big hairy ass goals as we discussed   I'll
> > send the next steps for that tomorrow.
> 
> What's a bit unclear to me: Is the strategy as we put it into the wiki also
> considered "Accepted"? To me, it is, with a big *but*: While it is too
> vague, we need to figure out how *exactly* we want to fulfill our mission,
> and we're doing so with the goals we started working on.
> 
> So, the whole Wiki page is "accepted", not just the "Mission" bit, right?

Moreover, we should publicize this, who wants to work on this? (I'm thinking 
primarily a Dot story, but also how it should be presented on KDE's web 
presence. Ken, any ideas?)

-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org

Re: QtWS 2017 update: team rally call; asset prep; Telegram group

[Paul Brown]

On Monday, 21 August 2017 10:50:53 CEST Eike Hein wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I decided to start a new thread because no one reads monster threads :)
> 
> Things to talk about:
> 
> (1) QtWS KDE team
> 
> Currently I have gotten responses from:
> * Eike (yes I talk to myself)
> * Helio
> * Rohan
> * Adriaan
> * Aleix
> * Sune
> * Mirko
> * Leinir
> * Boud
> * Bhushan
> * Scarlett
> 
> That's 11 people, which is great. We are confirmed to get to have 15
> people with us this year, so there's still a chance to speak up and join
> to help.
> 
> This week I'll be sending everyone a private mail with:
> (a) The QtWS registration code link so you can sign up for your free
> QtWS ticket
> (b) A question about your duty preferences in order (booth, talk
> chairing, talk video camera manning) so I have data to draw up a duty
> roster once we get closer to the event
> 
> So keep your eyes peeled on your inboxes!
> 
> 
> (2) KDE registration desk and booth flyer
> 
> We need a compelling flyer we can stack on the QtWS registration desk
> and our booth. It should recap what KDE is about (we have a great new
> additional source to draw from this year: the KDE Mission statement) and
> what we want to pitch to QtWS attendees.
> 
> Jens, do you want to take charge of layout/integration on this?
> 
> Who wants to work on content?

This a job for the promo/editors/writers team, i.e. Ivana and I.

We'll co-ordinate with Jens so that the content matches the format of the 
flyer.

Paul
-- 
Promotion & Communication

www: http://kde.org
Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity



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Re: Proposal: Have the Community Set Ambitious Goals for Itself

[Sebastian Kügler]

On maandag 21 augustus 2017 08:42:42 CEST Kevin Ottens wrote:
> On Wednesday, 16 August 2017 12:38:17 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> 
> 
> > On dinsdag 15 augustus 2017 00:47:15 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> 
> 
> > > If I get at least two people to agree in this thread that they will
> > > submit a goal I commit to making the process work according to the
> > > proposed timeline.
> 
> > I'll do that. We probably should coordinate somehow which goals, so we
> > don't end up with almost duplicates, or leave out sensible options.
> 
> I think that's the whole point of working out the proposals + the discussion
> phase during October. It should help a great deal to make sure duplicates
> are known and merged before the poll starts.

I misunderstood the process a bit. I thought a bunch of people would send in 
proposals and then we'd vote, but I was afraid that that would produce crappy 
input for an important process. (Crappy, measured by my first attempt at 
producing something half-decent.) 

It's crystal clear to me now, and I think that that MO should totally work. :)
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org

Re: Telemetry Policy

[Volker Krause]

On Sunday, 20 August 2017 22:29:28 CEST Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
> On 19 August 2017 at 11:39, Volker Krause  wrote:
> > On Friday, 18 August 2017 11:23:49 CEST Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
> > > On 17 August 2017 at 16:19, Volker Krause  wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:35:59 CEST Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
> > > My assumption when started with telemetry was having adequate level of
> > > precision. Assuming no logs are fabricated as fake interesting questions
> > > are for example: how many users actually run supported software and how
> > > many run outdated one? Not how many executions per given period of time
> > > because it may be that old software is executed by a few users very
> > > frequently for some reason. e.g. because 3 years old sofware crashes on 
> > > old OS every minute and restart was needed :)
> > > 
> > > How to know that without unique (anonymous) identification?
> > > Using extra fields such as OS+Desktop type/version would be indeed a
> > > form of cheap UID.
> > > But I would say disclosing OS+Desktop type/version for that discloses
> > > more than the anonymous random UID represents.
> > > In bugzilla and mailing list we're asking for all this information too
> > > anyway and (at least I) do not like supporting anonymous users since I
> > > am not anonymous.
> > 
> > The implementation in KUserFeedback addresses this by fixed interval data
> > submission. If you then aggregate the received data by the same interval,
> > you can see e.g. how ratios of application versions develop over time.
> > 
> > This does have limits of course, you can't distinguish between the same
> > person using the application every sampling interval, or two people using 
> > it every other interval for example. With a sufficiently long sampling 
> > interval the result should nevertheless be sufficiently accurate I think.
> 
> Volker, thanks for sharing this. I don't see how this as an approximation.
> Do you probe in given time intervals and/or measure time spent with the
> application? How do you handle time zones (e.g. zero usage of version X
> that is used only in the USA for some reason)?
> 
> KEXI sends the feedback data on startup only. I have no idea if this is
> compatible with any other approach but this helps to ignore different usage
> patterns, e.g. these two basic and typical to KEXI and many apps:
> 
> - user starts the app and keeps it open for half of the day
> - user frequently starts the app multiple times (for any reason) and has
> multiple instances open
> 
> If I remember correctly we're not measuring how long the app is used, this
> can be perceived as quite private information, by the way. Interesting data
> but so far not collected.
> 
> Moreover based on my specific experience giving up the IDs softens the data
> any more complex than app version: Alice can use module M of the app
> primarily and Bob can use module N mostly. Without IDs we have a set of
> mixed probes that include usage of both modules in no particular order
> (maybe per locale or timezone or other factor but this is not worth
> guessing IMHO). We don't even know if there are module-based preferences
> among the users.

Let's looks at a concrete example:

{
"applicationVersion": {  "value": "2.8.50"  },
"compiler": { "type": "GCC",  "version": "7.1" },
"opengl": {
"glslVersion": "1.30",
"renderer": "Haswell Mobile ",
"type": "GL",
"vendor": "Intel",
"vendorVersion": "Mesa 17.1.4",
"version": "3.0"
},
"platform": {
"os": "linux",
"version": "opensuse-tumbleweed"
},
"qtVersion": { "value": "5.9.2" },
"startCount": { "value": 34 },
"toolRatio": {
"objectinspector": { "property": 0.7619047619047619 },
"quickinspector": { "property": 0.23809523809523808 }
},
"usageTime": { "value": 12113  }
}

This is what a local GammaRay instance on this machine would currently sent 
once a week, if I enable the maximum telemetry level. "Once a week" is the 
approximation I was referring to, as that of course assumes the application is 
actually running. If it isn't, it sends at the next possibility after that. 

However, this means that when looking at all samples received in one week, I 
can be reasonably sure to only have included each installation at most once.

The data includes the number of application starts, so you can distinguish 
between frequent short users and keep it running all the time users, like you 
mentioned. Either usage pattern doesn't change general statistics though, as 
both submit the same amount of data.

The raw data stays available, aggregation only happens in the analytics tool. 
So you can of course still correlate various values (feature usage depending 
on OS or locale, for example). This also means you can see if features A and B 
are used in equal parts by all users, or half the users use primarily A and 
the other half primarily B.

QtWS 2017 update: team rally call; asset prep; Telegram group

[Eike Hein]

Hi!

I decided to start a new thread because no one reads monster threads :)

Things to talk about:

(1) QtWS KDE team

Currently I have gotten responses from:
* Eike (yes I talk to myself)
* Helio
* Rohan
* Adriaan
* Aleix
* Sune
* Mirko
* Leinir
* Boud
* Bhushan
* Scarlett

That's 11 people, which is great. We are confirmed to get to have 15
people with us this year, so there's still a chance to speak up and join
to help.

This week I'll be sending everyone a private mail with:
(a) The QtWS registration code link so you can sign up for your free
QtWS ticket
(b) A question about your duty preferences in order (booth, talk
chairing, talk video camera manning) so I have data to draw up a duty
roster once we get closer to the event

So keep your eyes peeled on your inboxes!


(2) KDE registration desk and booth flyer

We need a compelling flyer we can stack on the QtWS registration desk
and our booth. It should recap what KDE is about (we have a great new
additional source to draw from this year: the KDE Mission statement) and
what we want to pitch to QtWS attendees.

Jens, do you want to take charge of layout/integration on this?

Who wants to work on content?

We should not be lazy about this so we can figure out printing etc. in
time without crazy chaos.


(3) Posters

In 2015 we had some nice posters on KDE Frameworks and our dev tools.
Who has the files so we can look into if we can reuse or update them?


(4) Demo loops

Leinir, you mentioned wanting to work on demo loops - do you want to
take charge of this now and tell people what help you need to get it done?


(5) Telegram group

In 2015 we used a "KDE@QtWS" Telegram group to coordinate during the
event. As more people use Telegram now, it makes sense to revive this
early also for the prep phase. Go here if so inclined:

https://telegram.me/joinchat/Azsz2AFTa7HE0h8CLPzFpQ


Cheers,
Eike

Re: Mission has been accepted

[Sebastian Kügler]

On zaterdag 19 augustus 2017 21:58:26 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> Given that there were no further comments I have now removed the draft
> tag from the Mission at https://community.kde.org/KDE/Mission.
> Thank you everyone for your comments and the fruitful discussion. I am
> grateful for your input and help in getting this written down. I hope
> next to the vision and manifesto it will become an important guiding
> document for us.
> 
> The next step is setting big hairy ass goals as we discussed   I'll
> send the next steps for that tomorrow.

What's a bit unclear to me: Is the strategy as we put it into the wiki also 
considered "Accepted"? To me, it is, with a big *but*: While it is too vague, 
we need to figure out how *exactly* we want to fulfill our mission, and we're 
doing so with the goals we started working on.

So, the whole Wiki page is "accepted", not just the "Mission" bit, right?
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org

Re: Big Hairy Audacious Goal: Privacy Software

[Sebastian Kügler]

On vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 18:14:22 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> Your thoughts and input?

Thanks all, for the rather useful input! It's definitely something I can work 
with!
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org

Practical Goal: Modern and Global Text Input For Every User (Input Methods, Emoji, Touch)

[Eike Hein]

Hi everyone!

Text input is the foundational means of human-computer interaction: We
configure or systems, program them, and express ourselves through them
by writing text. It's how our software is made, and it's how it's
consumed. It's how users and developers connect with each other.

Yet text input in our software is not complete, and it's not as strong
as it could be. Some cannot use our software to write text at all.
Others are not doing it as efficiently as they could be, or with as much
joy.

The good news is that improving this is within our reach. If we care to
do so.

I propose that we spend time and effort on:
* ... enabling more users to write their language in our software
* ... allowing all of our users to input text with greater efficiency
* ... bringing more joy to text input by improving support for emoji
* ... making text input act consistently across different input devices
* ... addressing key defects in our software related to global text

Achieving these goals in all our software will require the involvement
of at least interface designers, artists, translators, shell
programmers, library programmers, application programmers, and users. I
therefore think it's an appropriate goal to set for our community as whole.

Here is what we would do:

(1) Improve support for Input Methods

Input Methods are software that helps convert input events to text
output. Many languages (e.g. a variety of Asian languages) require an
Input Method to be written at all. Others can still benefit from Input
Methods that provide e.g. word completion or spell-checking. Emoji input
can also run through Input Methods.

There is a sizable community that has developed Input Method software
for free systems. KDE/Qt software supports some of this software
already. However, this support is poorly integrated/surfaced. Input
Methods are treated as something that may-be-installed, not as part of
the bedrock our systems rest on. Installation and setup require expert
knowledge - this should not be necessary. Once in use, integration seams
make the user experience very painful.

To improve support for Input Methods, we would:
* Make them a required dependency
* Evolve Plasma's System Settings and panel indicator UIs for keyboard
layout management toward managing input languages and input methods
* Spend time on the UI for managing active input methods at runtime
* Think about how to guide our users toward the use of input methods
that can improve their typing speed and accuracy

It's interesting to add that users who require Input Methods to write
their language are currently under-represented among our users compared
to other systems, because we support them poorly. Fixing this will grow
our community and help us achieve other goals in the future!

(2) Improve support for emoji

Via the improved support for Input Methods, we can add a globally
accessible emoji input panel and also surface it in our libraries and
applications by putting emoji buttons in our line edits and text field
context menus and enabling them in our applications where it makes sense.

(3) Improve the convergent text input experience

Our physical and virtual keyboard systems (on both desktop and mobile)
currently don't have equal support for Input Methods, and they also
behave differently, are configured in different ways, and do not share
any state, so it is sometimes not possible to start text input on one
keyboard and continue it on the other without starting over. This needs
fixing.

(4) Improve global text support in our application software

Many of our apps currently lack key features to make them viable in
certain language spheres, e.g. control over the CJK font or full-fledged
RTL support in text editing applications. Some even have more basic bugs
like search fields that don't search until you type n characters - when
in some writing systems an entire person's name can be just one
character. Or they choke on non-English file names.

Here we should collect common problems and their solutions, form
checklists, and work together to make our software pass them.

---

This is not a vague goal. This is a concrete development drive, with
well-definable work items and clear metrics for measuring success. It's
realistic and achievable in finite time.

It's work that lends itself to both cross-project team-building within
the community and easy distribution of task items to sub-teams or
individuals.

It's work that will grow our skillset and competency as a community in a
new area: It will contribute to our institutional knowledge as a
community of makers.

It's a great fit for a development sprint.

Inclusivity and end-user focus are both emphasized in our KDE Manifesto.
This work will read against both of them, by making text input available
to more users, and making it easier for all.

Doing this will grow our developer and user community.

And it's going to impact every one of the users we already have.

Let's make text rock!


Cheers,
Eike

PS.: 

Re: Proposal: Have the Community Set Ambitious Goals for Itself

[Kevin Ottens]

Hello,

On Wednesday, 16 August 2017 12:38:17 CEST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On dinsdag 15 augustus 2017 00:47:15 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > If I get at least two people to agree in this thread that they will
> > submit a goal I commit to making the process work according to the
> > proposed timeline.
> 
> I'll do that. We probably should coordinate somehow which goals, so we don't
> end up with almost duplicates, or leave out sensible options.

I think that's the whole point of working out the proposals + the discussion 
phase during October. It should help a great deal to make sure duplicates are 
known and merged before the poll starts.

Regards.
-- 
Kévin Ottens, http://ervin.ipsquad.net

KDAB - proud supporter of KDE, http://www.kdab.com



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