Re: Apology
Hi Niccolò, On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:26 PM Niccolò Ve wrote: > Hi. > > > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. > > This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic. > The KDE Community list exists, according to the subscription page: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community The purpose of the mailing list is to provide a place for non-technical > information and discussions which are relevant to the KDE community as a > whole. All people who consider themselves to be part of the KDE community > are invited to join. Conversations on the mailing list are respectful, > considerate, polite and constructive following our KDE Code of Conduct. > The list collects announcements, information and results from discussions > in other places and offers a place to get feedback on non-technical > questions or plans of relevance for the whole KDE community. Anything else is off-topic. > A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic. > The original post was about the FSF and their governance. Unfortunately "RMS pro/con" hijacked that thread and caused this list to be moderated. > If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say so. > I did so. > The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...) does not > change that > the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10 hours *before* > this apology. > It was rejected just* now.* As offtopic. > I live in the US; most of the other mods live in Europe. If they had wanted to act on your email they could have done so, but I believe I was the one to reject your post. There was nothing time-sensitive in it. I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is plain out > bad. This apology > mail only made things worse. If I did not know about KDE, I'd say that > they are censoring > the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed. > Requiring lists to be on-topic is not censorship, which *governments* do. We're volunteers trying to keep lists "respectful, considerate, polite and constructive." Had the discussion kept to that, even though off-topic, it probably could have been solved by a warning. Even the original motivation for putting the ML under moderation could've > been worded better, > it raised complaints from some people I know. > Yes, I should have followed my own advice and removed my personal thoughts. That was not constructive. Putting an email under manual moderation requires that manual moderation to > happen much, > much faster than 10 hours. If help is needed in moderating, please say so. > If you want to shutdown the discussion about RMS, say it was getting too > aggressive, not that > it's "offtopic". > > Niccolò > We're all volunteers. Help is always welcome! List administration is not the most interesting job, but it is not usually difficult either. If you are interested, write to "$listname-ow...@kde.org" (in this case, kde-community-owner at kde.org) and volunteer your services. Valorie > > Il giorno ven 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman < > valorie.zimmer...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> Hello my friends, >> >> When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was >> necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as >> possible. >> >> I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't >> die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and >> walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a >> personal opinion. >> >> While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, >> he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the >> more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to >> the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very >> worrying. >> >> My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that >> I am truly sorry. >> >> Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. >> >> Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this. >> >> All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software >> communities, >> >> Valorie >> >> -- >> http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her >> > > > -- > Niccolò Venerandi > > -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
Re: On the reappointment of Richard Stallman as a director of the FSF
On Donnerstag, 25. März 2021 08:53:31 CET Patrick Spendrin wrote: > Am 24.03.2021 um 23:26 schrieb Aleix Pol: > > Dear community, > > From the KDE e.V. we followed closely the discussions on the last few > > days regarding this recent decision within the Free Software > > Foundation's leadership. > > > > We have tried to sum up our thoughts in the following announcement > > with the hope to foster collectively the Free Software leadership we > > need. > > https://ev.kde.org/2021/03/24/on-the-reappointment-of-rms-fsf/ > > > > Looking forward to a more inclusive discussion that will shape the > > Free Software movement of tomorrow. > > > > Best regards, > > Aleix Pol with the KDE e.V. Board of Directors > > That is a statement I can subscribe to. Same for me :-) Alex
Re: Apology
Hi. > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic. A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic. If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say so. The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...) does not change that the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10 hours *before* this apology. It was rejected just* now.* As offtopic. I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is plain out bad. This apology mail only made things worse. If I did not know about KDE, I'd say that they are censoring the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed. Even the original motivation for putting the ML under moderation could've been worded better, it raised complaints from some people I know. Putting an email under manual moderation requires that manual moderation to happen much, much faster than 10 hours. If help is needed in moderating, please say so. If you want to shutdown the discussion about RMS, say it was getting too aggressive, not that it's "offtopic". Niccolò Il giorno ven 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman < valorie.zimmer...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > Hello my friends, > > When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was > necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as > possible. > > I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't > die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and > walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a > personal opinion. > > While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, > he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the > more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to > the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very > worrying. > > My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that I > am truly sorry. > > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. > > Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this. > > All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software > communities, > > Valorie > > -- > http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her > -- Niccolò Venerandi
Re: This list is now on emergency moderation
Valorie Zimmerman - 25.03.21, 22:03:40 CET: > Thank you for speaking up. I will do better in the future. Thank you Valorie for your willingness to reflect on your own behavior. I think such willingness helps a lot in the current situation in so many ways, no matter you how see the situation. -- Martin
Apology
Hello my friends, When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as possible. I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a personal opinion. While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very worrying. My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that I am truly sorry. Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this. All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software communities, Valorie -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
