Re: Formal complaint concerning the use of the name System Settings by GNOME
Il giorno lun, 25/07/2011 alle 12.56 +0200, Markus Slopianka ha scritto: Which settings don't they follow? Apart from theme (as there is no gtk3 engine written in Qt yet) Why do theme engines have to be written for Qt in order to let GTK apps at least integrate visually into a Qt environment. There should be a Qt theme loader in GTK just as there is a GTK theme loader in Qt. Well, I think that an hypothetical KDE-looking GTK theme would use Qt calls to paint widget, same as the GNOME-looking Qt theme paints using gtk_paint_*. Well, other than that: GNOME/GTK apps don't integrate with the Notifications panel, File Type Associations, Icon theme, CDDB config (for media players or CD rippers), ... Gtk apps normally use either libnotify, libappindicator or GtkStatusIcon (systray protocol). All of them are supported by KDE, AFAIK. File type associations are from xdg-mime/shared-mime-info, and should be shared by all freedesktop toolkits. Icon theme is taken from XSettings, you just need to export it, like Xfce and Lxde do. As for CDDB config, I don't think GNOME as something shared across the desktop for that. Giovanni signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Formal complaint concerning the use of the name System Settings by GNOME
Il giorno dom, 24/07/2011 alle 22.17 +0200, Aurélien Gâteau ha scritto: Le 24/07/2011 17:11, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit : GTK+ applications use the XSETTINGS keys: http://standards.freedesktop.org/xsettings-spec/xsettings-spec-0.5.html so every key that is shared using that specification is picked up automatically by GTK+ applications. we can definitely talk about extending the set of shared keys: we routinely do that on xdg-list -- for instance when the sound theme spec was introduced. The spec does not provide a list of shared keys, does such a list exist? If there is no such list I don't see how we could share anything. http://wiki.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/XSettingsRegistry I don't know what is shared right now but it is definitely not enough: a GTK application running on a KDE workspace does not follow KDE keybindings, palette, fonts, icon theme, label alignment or dialog button order. Additionally I don't believe a shared keys system is enough to share a widget theme. Otherwise the Oxygen devs probably wouldn't have created the Oxygen GTK theme. Of course, you would need to create a KDE theme. XSettings is just for choosing which theme among many. Giovanni signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Formal complaint concerning the use of the name System Settings by GNOME
Il giorno dom, 24/07/2011 alle 21.00 +1200, Ben Cooksley ha scritto: 2011/7/24 Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com: hi; 2011/7/24 Aurélien Gâteau agat...@kde.org: Most distributions split KDE packages so if you get a pre-installed computer with Gnome and a few KDE applications installed, KDE System Settings would not be installed. You are only likely to get both System Settings pre-installed if your computer was shipped with both KDE and Gnome desktops. In this situation, I assume you would be provided with some explanation as to what KDE and Gnome are. installing both Gnome and KDE is not equivalent to running both at the same time. if you managed to get yourself into the scenario where KDE and Gnome have been installed at the same time then the KDE system settings shell should be marked as NotShowIn=Gnome, and the Gnome one should be NotShowIn=KDE. currently, gnome-control-center uses: OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Unity; so a menu rendered under KDE won't show it. now, googling a bit I found this: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/102038/ which is, I guess, what really prompted this thread. so, if the KDE system settings shell appears alongside any other system settings shell it means that the users are not running KDE, but are running any other XDG-recognised desktop. there is no here and now — that would be a hack. I hardly think we have to solve this *quickly*, so we should solve it correctly. Releases are conflicting right *now*, so yes, I think there is a need to solve it quickly, even if the first fix is a short-term one. the short-term fix is to make the KDE system settings OnlyShowIn=KDE, so that users running KDE will not have any issue, and every other desktop will correctly not show the KDE system settings shell. Wrong. Emmanuele, read my initial email to see why that is not an acceptable solution under any circumstances. It has to be shown in some form, regardless of the name, under all desktop environments. Again, no. There is nothing you want to configure, running under GNOME, in KDE system settings. Qt apps, running under GNOME, should use Gtk+ style (already done by Qt), GNOME preferred apps and mime-type associations (already done by shared-mime-info), GNOME networking preferences (already done by NetworkManager and libproxy), GNOME fonts (already done by fontconfig). Everything else (desktop effects, hardware settings, date and time, users...) should not be configurable by KDE system settings, and will likely conflict if changed. Giovanni signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Formal complaint concerning the use of the name System Settings by GNOME
Il giorno dom, 24/07/2011 alle 22.37 +1200, Ben Cooksley ha scritto: On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Giovanni Campagna scampa.giova...@gmail.com wrote: Il giorno dom, 24/07/2011 alle 21.00 +1200, Ben Cooksley ha scritto: 2011/7/24 Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com: hi; 2011/7/24 Aurélien Gâteau agat...@kde.org: Most distributions split KDE packages so if you get a pre-installed computer with Gnome and a few KDE applications installed, KDE System Settings would not be installed. You are only likely to get both System Settings pre-installed if your computer was shipped with both KDE and Gnome desktops. In this situation, I assume you would be provided with some explanation as to what KDE and Gnome are. installing both Gnome and KDE is not equivalent to running both at the same time. if you managed to get yourself into the scenario where KDE and Gnome have been installed at the same time then the KDE system settings shell should be marked as NotShowIn=Gnome, and the Gnome one should be NotShowIn=KDE. currently, gnome-control-center uses: OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Unity; so a menu rendered under KDE won't show it. now, googling a bit I found this: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/102038/ which is, I guess, what really prompted this thread. so, if the KDE system settings shell appears alongside any other system settings shell it means that the users are not running KDE, but are running any other XDG-recognised desktop. there is no here and now — that would be a hack. I hardly think we have to solve this *quickly*, so we should solve it correctly. Releases are conflicting right *now*, so yes, I think there is a need to solve it quickly, even if the first fix is a short-term one. the short-term fix is to make the KDE system settings OnlyShowIn=KDE, so that users running KDE will not have any issue, and every other desktop will correctly not show the KDE system settings shell. Wrong. Emmanuele, read my initial email to see why that is not an acceptable solution under any circumstances. It has to be shown in some form, regardless of the name, under all desktop environments. Again, no. There is nothing you want to configure, running under GNOME, in KDE system settings. Qt apps, running under GNOME, should use Gtk+ style (already done by Qt), GNOME preferred apps and mime-type associations (already done by shared-mime-info), GNOME networking preferences (already done by NetworkManager and libproxy), GNOME fonts (already done by fontconfig). Everything else (desktop effects, hardware settings, date and time, users...) should not be configurable by KDE system settings, and will likely conflict if changed. Wrong, wrong and wrong. Phonon backend cannot be configured without System Settings. And that's a feature, I suppose. As a GNOME user, I want GStreamer at all times (and as a Fedora user, I can't even install xine). Standard keyboard shortcuts for KDE applications cannot be configured without System Settings. Which is a KDE bug. You should use GNOME shortcuts when possible. I mean, Gtk has emacs and Mac OS modes for keybindings, I doubt Qt hasn't something similar. We don't share Date/Time/Localisation/etc - you need System Settings for that. You don't have $LANG? or org.freedesktop.Accounts? Both are KDE bugs. Theme - we both have our own stores of it - you need System Settings again (in case you don't believe me, read ~/.gtk2rc) It is true that you can change KDE theme without changing the GTK one, but why would one want that? I want the look and feel of my system to be consistent, even when different apps or toolkits are used, and I want one place to configure the theme. (or none, if I'm using GNOME3 /rant) KDE Wallet has some of it's configuration stored in System Settings too - and it is used by KDE applications even outside KDE for secure password storage. KDE apps under GNOME should use gnome-keyring, not kwallet: that's what org.freedesktop.Secrets is for. Giovanni signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
