Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 2023-11-13 23:03, Harald Sitter wrote: On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:45 PM wrote: Baloo is under-maintained and it was never in any good state as the initial author left it in an state of limbo and vanished. A bit off topic but maybe it'd be a good idea to talk to the tracker developers about pooling resources and join their efforts. Having two desktop indexers on Linux seems a bit of a waste. Like even if baloo was perfect it'd still be building a completely moot second database when you use Elisa under GNOME. Hi, That is a good idea, I tried years ago after fixing 'some' Baloo bugs myself to write some tracker based variant https://invent.kde.org/cullmann/baloo-tbaloo It never took of, but yes, tracker has at least more contributors. Greetings Christoph HS
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:45 PM wrote: > Baloo is under-maintained and it was never in any good state as the > initial author left it in an state of limbo and vanished. A bit off topic but maybe it'd be a good idea to talk to the tracker developers about pooling resources and join their efforts. Having two desktop indexers on Linux seems a bit of a waste. Like even if baloo was perfect it'd still be building a completely moot second database when you use Elisa under GNOME. HS
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 2023-11-13 09:45, Matthieu Gallien wrote: On dimanche 5 novembre 2023 18:01:38 CET Nate Graham wrote: On 11/5/23 07:42, Kevin Ottens wrote: > I was clumsily advocating for this Akademy 2021 or 2022 (can't remember > which). > > This way it's clearer to application authors when they tie themselves to a > given workspace or not. > > Also, isn't Elisa able to work without Baloo? It even seems to do the right > thing if I trust its CMakeLists.txt. It has Baloo as a recommended but > optional dependency, and disable it altogether for Win32 builds. Yes, Elisa also includes an internal indexer, for use on Windows and Android, or on *Nix when Baloo isn't installed or is disabled. I think the original idea for the app was to delegate all the indexing heavy lifting to Baloo to avoid internal complication, but clearly this has not worked out in practice, since to be truly cross-platform, it can't assume that Baloo is present and active and does need its own indexer. So maybe the best course of action is actually to remove Baloo support entirely and always use the internal indexer, so that we don't have two different code paths. From my memory, linking to Baloo was needed to query its database providing much faster discovery of your music files (and the main reason od a files indexer). From a user perspective, reusing the files indexer database makes for a smoother experience. I would prefer to be able to also leverage files indexer services on other platforms rather than tying us to the old way of having each application scans files on its own (and monitor file system changes, ...). That said, maybe there is a way to query baloo database without linking to the library. Hi, that idea is nice, but for me, that didn't work out. Baloo is under-maintained and it was never in any good state as the initial author left it in an state of limbo and vanished. Just looking at https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__=frameworks-baloo and the state of https://invent.kde.org/frameworks/baloo/-/merge_requests tells me that one should just stay away from using it, if we can't get more manpower to fix at least the most prominent cashes. I don't say that people working on it miss skills or passion, just that not enough people work on it to get this fixed. But that is naturally just my opinion. Greetings Christoph Nate Best -- Matthieu
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On dimanche 5 novembre 2023 18:01:38 CET Nate Graham wrote: > On 11/5/23 07:42, Kevin Ottens wrote: > > I was clumsily advocating for this Akademy 2021 or 2022 (can't remember > > which). > > > > This way it's clearer to application authors when they tie themselves to a > > given workspace or not. > > > > Also, isn't Elisa able to work without Baloo? It even seems to do the right > > thing if I trust its CMakeLists.txt. It has Baloo as a recommended but > > optional dependency, and disable it altogether for Win32 builds. > > Yes, Elisa also includes an internal indexer, for use on Windows and > Android, or on *Nix when Baloo isn't installed or is disabled. > > I think the original idea for the app was to delegate all the indexing > heavy lifting to Baloo to avoid internal complication, but clearly this > has not worked out in practice, since to be truly cross-platform, it > can't assume that Baloo is present and active and does need its own > indexer. So maybe the best course of action is actually to remove Baloo > support entirely and always use the internal indexer, so that we don't > have two different code paths. >From my memory, linking to Baloo was needed to query its database providing >much faster discovery of your music files (and the main reason od a files >indexer). >From a user perspective, reusing the files indexer database makes for a >smoother experience. I would prefer to be able to also leverage files indexer services on other platforms rather than tying us to the old way of having each application scans files on its own (and monitor file system changes, ...). That said, maybe there is a way to query baloo database without linking to the library. > Nate > Best -- Matthieu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 2023-11-05 18:35, christ...@cullmann.io wrote: On 2023-11-05 18:01, Nate Graham wrote: On 11/5/23 07:42, Kevin Ottens wrote: I was clumsily advocating for this Akademy 2021 or 2022 (can't remember which). This way it's clearer to application authors when they tie themselves to a given workspace or not. Also, isn't Elisa able to work without Baloo? It even seems to do the right thing if I trust its CMakeLists.txt. It has Baloo as a recommended but optional dependency, and disable it altogether for Win32 builds. Yes, Elisa also includes an internal indexer, for use on Windows and Android, or on *Nix when Baloo isn't installed or is disabled. I think the original idea for the app was to delegate all the indexing heavy lifting to Baloo to avoid internal complication, but clearly this has not worked out in practice, since to be truly cross-platform, it can't assume that Baloo is present and active and does need its own indexer. So maybe the best course of action is actually to remove Baloo support entirely and always use the internal indexer, so that we don't have two different code paths. Hi, sounds for me a lot easier to test with just one variant. And one would always use the variant Windows uses. Hi, any more feedback about this? Greetings Christoph Greetings Christoph Nate
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 2023-11-05 18:01, Nate Graham wrote: On 11/5/23 07:42, Kevin Ottens wrote: I was clumsily advocating for this Akademy 2021 or 2022 (can't remember which). This way it's clearer to application authors when they tie themselves to a given workspace or not. Also, isn't Elisa able to work without Baloo? It even seems to do the right thing if I trust its CMakeLists.txt. It has Baloo as a recommended but optional dependency, and disable it altogether for Win32 builds. Yes, Elisa also includes an internal indexer, for use on Windows and Android, or on *Nix when Baloo isn't installed or is disabled. I think the original idea for the app was to delegate all the indexing heavy lifting to Baloo to avoid internal complication, but clearly this has not worked out in practice, since to be truly cross-platform, it can't assume that Baloo is present and active and does need its own indexer. So maybe the best course of action is actually to remove Baloo support entirely and always use the internal indexer, so that we don't have two different code paths. Hi, sounds for me a lot easier to test with just one variant. And one would always use the variant Windows uses. Greetings Christoph Nate
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 11/5/23 07:42, Kevin Ottens wrote: I was clumsily advocating for this Akademy 2021 or 2022 (can't remember which). This way it's clearer to application authors when they tie themselves to a given workspace or not. Also, isn't Elisa able to work without Baloo? It even seems to do the right thing if I trust its CMakeLists.txt. It has Baloo as a recommended but optional dependency, and disable it altogether for Win32 builds. Yes, Elisa also includes an internal indexer, for use on Windows and Android, or on *Nix when Baloo isn't installed or is disabled. I think the original idea for the app was to delegate all the indexing heavy lifting to Baloo to avoid internal complication, but clearly this has not worked out in practice, since to be truly cross-platform, it can't assume that Baloo is present and active and does need its own indexer. So maybe the best course of action is actually to remove Baloo support entirely and always use the internal indexer, so that we don't have two different code paths. Nate
Move krunner also to plasma bundle? (was: Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now)
Am Sonntag, 5. November 2023, 15:32:21 CET schrieb christ...@cullmann.io: > On 2023-11-05 15:11, Nate Graham wrote: > > On 11/5/23 07:09, christ...@cullmann.io wrote: > >> if we are atm moving stuff, might it make sense to move Baloo, too, > >> given it only > >> is usable with the daemon inside Plasma more or less, too? > >> > >> Greetings > >> Christoph > > > > Baloo is linked by some apps, e.g. Elisa, and I wouldn't like to make > > them haul in Plasma stuff. > > Hi, > > some applications link to kactivities, too. > I think it just makes it more clear that this will just work with > Plasma. > > But I can live with the status quo, too, just thought it would be > cleaner. While at it: would KRunner not also be a good candidate to bundle with Plasma instead of KF? (to repeat some old record :P) AFAIK the only programs hosting KRunner plugins are Plasma ones, everyone else just provides plugins. So similar to Plasma-Frameworks. Bundling KRunner libraries with Plasma would allow to develop the search/query system in-sync, and plugin developers would just expect the plugin API to be stable. Cheers Friedrich
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
Hello, On Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:32:21 CET christ...@cullmann.io wrote: > On 2023-11-05 15:11, Nate Graham wrote: > > Baloo is linked by some apps, e.g. Elisa, and I wouldn't like to make > > them haul in Plasma stuff. > > some applications link to kactivities, too. > I think it just makes it more clear that this will just work with > Plasma. > > But I can live with the status quo, too, just thought it would be > cleaner. Yes, I think it'd make sense to have a clearer and cleaner separation between KDE Frameworks dependencies which can work outside of a Plasma sessions and libraries which require Plasma runtime components. I was clumsily advocating for this Akademy 2021 or 2022 (can't remember which). This way it's clearer to application authors when they tie themselves to a given workspace or not. Also, isn't Elisa able to work without Baloo? It even seems to do the right thing if I trust its CMakeLists.txt. It has Baloo as a recommended but optional dependency, and disable it altogether for Win32 builds. Regards. -- Kevin Ottens, http://ervin.ipsquad.net enioka Haute Couture - proud supporting member of KDE https://hc.enioka.com/en signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 2023-11-05 15:11, Nate Graham wrote: On 11/5/23 07:09, christ...@cullmann.io wrote: On 2023-11-05 12:59, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: Hi, with plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities entering the Plasma product bundle, I assume they also will adapt to Plasma versioning. Hi, if we are atm moving stuff, might it make sense to move Baloo, too, given it only is usable with the daemon inside Plasma more or less, too? Greetings Christoph Baloo is linked by some apps, e.g. Elisa, and I wouldn't like to make them haul in Plasma stuff. Hi, some applications link to kactivities, too. I think it just makes it more clear that this will just work with Plasma. But I can live with the status quo, too, just thought it would be cleaner. Greetings Christoph Nate
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 11/5/23 07:09, christ...@cullmann.io wrote: On 2023-11-05 12:59, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: Hi, with plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities entering the Plasma product bundle, I assume they also will adapt to Plasma versioning. Hi, if we are atm moving stuff, might it make sense to move Baloo, too, given it only is usable with the daemon inside Plasma more or less, too? Greetings Christoph Baloo is linked by some apps, e.g. Elisa, and I wouldn't like to make them haul in Plasma stuff. Nate
Re: plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
On 2023-11-05 12:59, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
Hi,
with plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities entering the Plasma
product
bundle, I assume they also will adapt to Plasma versioning.
Hi,
if we are atm moving stuff, might it make sense to move Baloo, too,
given it only
is usable with the daemon inside Plasma more or less, too?
Greetings
Christoph
Without any de-KF-ication though this will break things though for
building
consumers soonish. Example
--- 8< ---
find_package(KF6 ${KF_MIN_VERSION} REQUIRED COMPONENTS
CoreAddons
Plasma
)
--- 8< ---
* KF6_VERSION will be set by FindKF6.cmake to min component version, so
that
of KF6Plasma
* when setting KF_MIN_VERSION one will only think about KF versions,
not
Plasma versions
Asking people to always know about that trap and remember to always
only do
e.g.
--- 8< ---
find_package(KF6CoreAddons ${KF_MIN_VERSION} REQUIRED)
find_package(KF6Plasma ${PLASMA_MIN_VERSION} REQUIRED)
--- 8< ---
yields rather strange pattern code.
Or think of things like libcolorcorrect/LibColorCorrectConfig.cmake.in:
--- 8< ---
find_dependency(KF6Plasma "@KF6_MIN_VERSION@")
--- 8< ---
Looks fine on first sight, does it? Just, no longer is now.
So not best developer experience here.
Thus, to make it clear to everyone that those 3 libraries are now from
another
product bundle, with own versioning and other own rules, please do not
forget
to adapt
* naming: library names, CMake package names, CMake target names
* version variable setting (PLASMA_MIN_VERSION needed now in consumers)
* documentation: metainfo.yaml entries, references to KDE Frameworks
And yes, while at it some other Plasma bundle things might want to be
unmessy
here as well, e.g. libkscreen :)
Cheers
Friedrich
plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities-stats: please consider proper de-KF-ication now
Hi,
with plasma-framework, kactivities and kactivities entering the Plasma product
bundle, I assume they also will adapt to Plasma versioning.
Without any de-KF-ication though this will break things though for building
consumers soonish. Example
--- 8< ---
find_package(KF6 ${KF_MIN_VERSION} REQUIRED COMPONENTS
CoreAddons
Plasma
)
--- 8< ---
* KF6_VERSION will be set by FindKF6.cmake to min component version, so that
of KF6Plasma
* when setting KF_MIN_VERSION one will only think about KF versions, not
Plasma versions
Asking people to always know about that trap and remember to always only do
e.g.
--- 8< ---
find_package(KF6CoreAddons ${KF_MIN_VERSION} REQUIRED)
find_package(KF6Plasma ${PLASMA_MIN_VERSION} REQUIRED)
--- 8< ---
yields rather strange pattern code.
Or think of things like libcolorcorrect/LibColorCorrectConfig.cmake.in:
--- 8< ---
find_dependency(KF6Plasma "@KF6_MIN_VERSION@")
--- 8< ---
Looks fine on first sight, does it? Just, no longer is now.
So not best developer experience here.
Thus, to make it clear to everyone that those 3 libraries are now from another
product bundle, with own versioning and other own rules, please do not forget
to adapt
* naming: library names, CMake package names, CMake target names
* version variable setting (PLASMA_MIN_VERSION needed now in consumers)
* documentation: metainfo.yaml entries, references to KDE Frameworks
And yes, while at it some other Plasma bundle things might want to be unmessy
here as well, e.g. libkscreen :)
Cheers
Friedrich
