Re: Small rant: installer environment size
On Friday, December 9, 2022, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2022-12-09 at 12:04 +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: > > * Richard W. M. Jones: > > > > > You only need network / wifi firmware blobs (although I'm sure they > > > are in themselves large) and then you can fetch anything else needed > > > for the hardware including graphics, right? > > > > I think you need graphics to set up wifi. > > Yeah, this is an awkward chicken-and-egg problem. Even if we assume > you're on a wired network, kernel modules generally - AIUI - try to > load the firmware once, on initial module load, and if they can't find > it, just give up, right? So we still have an ordering problem: how can > we delay the loading of modules that need firmware until the network is > up for us to be able to access the firmware files? > > Maybe I'm missing something that would help there, but it seems > tricky... > > Looking at sizes, iwlwifi firmware alone is 75M(!) ath10k is 6.8M, > ath11k is 12M, ath6k is 812K, so that's nearly another 20M. brcm/ is > another 6.4M and I *think* that's all wifi. There's a few other minor > ones, but that's a little over 100M of just wifi, with Intel by a huge > margin the worst offender. > > Does anyone know anyone we can talk to at Intel about this? It's pretty > obnoxious. > > In terms of what the other big space takers are in general: > > * amdgpu/ (AMD video cards) is ~20M > * intel/ (mainly Intel bluetooth) is ~15M [0] > * qed/ (some very high-end QLogic network cards) is ~10M [0] > * i915/ (Intel video firmware) is 8.4M > * mediatek/ is 7.7M [1] > * qcom/ is 7.3M > > Then it trails off from there. Just the wifi plus those 6 things are > around 170M, so the large majority of all the space taken. > > [0] No, we can't lose this - people install with Bluetooth > mice/keyboards > [1] For a quick win right now possibly we could assume nobody's going > to use one of those as the interface for a Fedora install and drop > that, not sure if it's a safe assumption > It's not given that AMD wifi is rebranded mediatek, meaning it will drop wifi for lots of newer AMD laptops. ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [OS-BUILD PATCH] redhat: Remove cpupower files
From: Justin M. Forbes on gitlab.com https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/merge_requests/2125#note_1203675945 ``` error: File not found: /builddir/build/BUILDROOT/kernel-6.1.0-0.rc8.20221209gi t0d1409e4ff08.62.eln124.aarch64/usr/lib/systemd/system/cpupower.service error: File not found: /builddir/build/BUILDROOT/kernel-6.1.0-0.rc8.20221209gi t0d1409e4ff08.62.eln124.aarch64/etc/sysconfig/cpupower ``` ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [OS-BUILD PATCHv2] Check for kernel config git-push failures
From: Don Zickus on gitlab.com https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/merge_requests/2165#note_1203488108 created !2183 with 'touch' fix ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [OS-BUILD PATCHv2] Check for kernel config git-push failures
From: Don Zickus on gitlab.com https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/merge_requests/2165#note_1203471910 ugh how dumb of me. I can create an MR that 'touch'es or 'rm -f'. Any preference @jmflinuxtx @ptalbert ? ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [OS-BUILD PATCHv2] Check for kernel config git-push failures
From: Patrick Talbert on gitlab.com https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/merge_requests/2165#note_1203367314 Afaict we just need to touch the `.push-warnings` file? ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: [OS-BUILD PATCHv2] Check for kernel config git-push failures
From: Justin M. Forbes on gitlab.com https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/merge_requests/2165#note_1203309926 So it seems this will now fail if we have no warnings. ``` No new configuration values exposed from merging master into os-build 232Pushing branch os-build to g...@gitlab.com:cki-project/kernel-ark.git 233Everything up-to-date 234Pushing config update branches 235grep: .push-warnings: No such file or directory 236rm: cannot remove '.push-warnings': No such file or directory 237make[1]: *** [Makefile:734: dist-merge-upstream] Error 1 238make[1]: Leaving directory '/builds/53/kernel-ark/redhat' 239make: *** [makefile:12: dist-merge-upstream-push] Error 2 241 Cleaning up project directory and file based variables 00:01 243ERROR: Job failed: exit code 1 ``` ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Small rant: installer environment size
On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 12:04:24PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Richard W. M. Jones: > > > You only need network / wifi firmware blobs (although I'm sure they > > are in themselves large) and then you can fetch anything else needed > > for the hardware including graphics, right? > > I think you need graphics to set up wifi. I long for old school text mode installers ... At least you knew that the tab key would always work. Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com virt-builder quickly builds VMs from scratch http://libguestfs.org/virt-builder.1.html ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Small rant: installer environment size
On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 4:56 PM Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Thu, 2022-12-08 at 12:58 +, Peter Robinson wrote: > > > > I've done a few passes, dropping a bunch of older firmware upstream > > that are no longer supported in any stable kernel release, also a > > bunch of de-dupe and linking of files rather than shipping of multiple > > copies of the same firmware. It's improved things a bit, unfortunately > > a lot of the dead firmware was tiny compared to say average modern > > devices like GPUs or WiFI. > > > > The problem with a lot of the firmware, and with the new nvidia "open > > driver" which shoves a lot of stuff into firmware in order to have an > > upstreamable driver apparently the firmwares there are going to be > > 30+Mb each, is that they're needed to bring up graphics/network etc to > > even just install so I don't know how we can get around this and still > > have a device work enough to be able to install the needed firmware > > across the network. > > > > Ideas on how to solve that problem welcome. > > Sorry if this is way off, but - do we need the GPU firmwares to run a > graphical install on the fallback path, just using the framebuffer set > up by the firmware? How crazy would it be to just do that - ship the > installer env with no GPU firmware? That has crossed my mind, and with simpledrm that may be more straight forward now, but TBH it's not something I am skilled enough to deal with, nor have the resources to test, or actually care enough about, but the big GPU firmwares are now all split out so that should be much more straightforward for someone with the resources to investigate. ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Small rant: installer environment size
* Richard W. M. Jones: > You only need network / wifi firmware blobs (although I'm sure they > are in themselves large) and then you can fetch anything else needed > for the hardware including graphics, right? I think you need graphics to set up wifi. Thanks, Florian ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Small rant: installer environment size
On Thu, Dec 08, 2022 at 11:49:16AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2022-12-08 at 20:23 +0100, drago01 wrote: > > The problem I see here is not the presence of the firmware on the > > image, > > but the fact that it seems to be loaded into memory despite not being > > used. > > This is the direction Daniel was thinking down. I'm waiting for someone > with more expertise to reply, but I suspect the reply is going to be > along the lines of "yes, we *can* do that, but it's somewhat tricky > work that involves thinking about lots of paths that aren't obvious, > and somebody would need to dedicate their time to working on that". Split install.img into install.img + firmware.img? I think we already have support for multiple images (I see requests for updates.img when watching httpd logs while doing network installs), so the split should be easy. The somewhat more tricky part is probably to figure whenever we need the firmware or not. take care, Gerd ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Small rant: installer environment size
On Wed, Dec 07, 2022 at 04:42:05PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > I've moaned about the sheer amount and size of firmware blobs in other > forums before, but 214M compressed is *really* obnoxious. We must be > able to do something to clean this up (further than it's already > cleaned up - this is *after* we dropped low-hanging fruit like > enterprise switch 'firmwares' and garbage like that; most of the > remaining size seems to be huge amounts of probably-very-similar > firmware files for AMD graphics adapters and Intel wireless adapters). > I know some folks were trying to work on this (there was talk that we > could drop quite a lot of files that would only be loaded by older > kernels no longer in Fedora); any news on how far along that effort is? You only need network / wifi firmware blobs (although I'm sure they are in themselves large) and then you can fetch anything else needed for the hardware including graphics, right? Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com virt-builder quickly builds VMs from scratch http://libguestfs.org/virt-builder.1.html ___ kernel mailing list -- kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to kernel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
