Re: [Kicad-developers] Hating wx configuration more than ever...
On 05/07/2012 11:10 PM, Lorenzo Marcantonio wrote: On Mon, May 07, 2012 at 02:25:44PM -0500, Dick Hollenbeck wrote: But I cannot tell you what a wxChar* means THIS MONTH. The best thing the wxWidgets folks could do is to start with this line: typedef std::string wxString and then go fix all the compile errors after that. wxString has served too many masters and its biggest mistake was coming into existence. That last sentence was not fair of me, since std::string did not exist when wxString was written. But I retain my other point of view that wxString is no longer needed, and wxWidgets could be done with std::string and an elaborate std::string factory class. With latest wx, wxString is a container holding a std::string holding characters encoded as UTF8 bytes on linux and OSX. Windows is unknown. See: http://docs.wxwidgets.org/2.9.3/overview_changes_since28.html#overview_changes_unicode which says: For example, the notorious (due to the confusion they created) macros |wxT() http://docs.wxwidgets.org/2.9.3/group__group__funcmacro__string.html#ga437ea6ba615b75dac8603e96ec864160| and |_T() http://docs.wxwidgets.org/2.9.3/group__group__funcmacro__string.html#ga7dfc2888539861afe6c4337ef315472b| are not needed at all any longer. This means that we eventually, we'll no longer need all the wxT() stuff, since we basically never put anything but ASCII characters in those wrappers and to convert from an ASCII string to UTF8 is simply a matter of copying bytes without any conversion at all. And converting ASCII bytes to UTF16 characters is simply a matter of zeroing out the upper byte. So eventually we can go back and remove all the wxT() wrappers. I think all their APIs would be better off using UTF8 encoded std::strings, they could convert to any other required encoding behind their public APIs, as they do now from wxString. wxChar* in such a world, typedef-ed to a pointer to a 32 bit character, should not be needed much for strings anyways in the future. Single characters yes, strings not so much. wxString feels a lot like the 80's and 90's now, which I characterize as let's watch Microsoft learn how to program, as they lead us into the future, constantly changing directions, constantly costing developers money chasing a new fad, zigging left, then right, but always wanting to lead, not knowing where they are going. Dick The wx wiki *explicitly* tells to use fscking wxString instead of std::string! Note that it is recommended to use wxString as much as possible. Do no use char* or std::string unless you use a third-party library that requires you to do so. Since I didn't passed --disable-unicode, wxChar* should be a wchar_t*. Also the operator const wxChar * is present... maybe the culprit is lacking the const bit somehow. Also the 'fun' thing in the wx trunk doc is this: The wxString class has been completely rewritten for wxWidgets 3.0 and this change was actually the main reason for the calling that version wxWidgets 3.0. wxString is a class representing a Unicode character string. wxString uses std::basic_string internally (even if wxUSE_STL is not defined) to store its content (unless this is not supported by the compiler or disabled specifically when building wxWidgets) and it therefore inherits many features from std::basic_string. (Note that most implementations of std::basic_string are thread-safe and don't use reference counting.) So at least part of your suggestion was taken in account... (I'd rather have junked it wxString completely) also part of the fun is that wxString USES std::basic_string not wxString EXTENDS std::basic_string. Yay a PART-OF instead of IS-A relationship... I don't actually care about 2.9 at the moment... ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Hating wx configuration more than ever...
On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 01:01:07AM -0500, Dick Hollenbeck wrote: With latest wx, wxString is a container holding a std::string holding characters encoded as UTF8 bytes on linux and OSX. Windows is unknown. UTF8? not wide chars? Strange, the C++ approach is usually using wchar_t, not MBCS... there *is* a configure option for using UTF8 in 2.9, maybe that's active in your build. This would actually break every indexed access to the string (unless they abstracted it with huge performance penalties, having to start from the beginning each time). I see 6GB ram *laptops* around. I think these days string processing (i.e. not only copying strings from a place to another) in core is more convenient with wchars... -- Lorenzo Marcantonio Logos Srl ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad library format
Hello, I am afraid that I am not as goog programmer as it may look. I use documentation a lot, because of little experience. But I have a goal and I am going towards it. An I will get there :-) I will do as much I can to help. And will release the source too. Milan P.S. I'd like to buy beginners package of worms ;-) Dne 8.5.2012 10:00, Miguel Angel Ajo Pelayo napsal(a): Milan, Interesting project, Wouldn't you be interested in joining the scripting taskforce, right? I've been thinking during last days about schema footprint visualization in the python scripting we're building, and one thing is the visualization to UI, that reusing the current KiCad code would be the cleanest/fastest/easier to maintain, but... Then something else comes to my mind (for web app building, and even for desktop apps), some kind of render painters (in python) capable of taking a BOARD MODULE (later schematic parts and schematics) and spiting out a .svg or .png : just imagine a web app doing a: painter = pcbnew.PAINTER(my_module) my_svg = painter.GetSVG() my_png = painter.GetPNG() That could be of great reuse in many places, with the new PLUGIN architecture, it could even be reused to paint the new format files, eagle (when available), altium orcad? if there is some brave man around :-) 2012/5/7 Dick Hollenbeck d...@softplc.com mailto:d...@softplc.com Do you want to buy some worms? Good accomplishment. Hello, not to give a fish but teach how to fish instead :-) Found it in sources and it is pretty self explanatory. Thank you guys and thank you for all the work you do. Milan Dne 6.5.2012 16:12, Dick Hollenbeck napsal(a): On 05/06/2012 08:23 AM, Milan Horák wrote: Hi gentlemen, I'm working on my fun project - KiCad file visualiser (http://kicad.picaxe.cz/kifivi/index.php). I have a question about KiCad component library format. Documentation says that ALIAS line has to be the second line right after DEF line, but in the default device.lib from package it is not this way. I.e. CP component - ALIAS line follows fields F1 line. What is the right way then? Tkanks for any answer. Milan Sometimes even a developer, or even the original author, may not carry this information in his/her head. So to answer the question, he/she would have to look at the source. This is perhaps something you can do to? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Miguel Angel Ajo Pelayo http://www.nbee.es +34 636 52 25 69 skype: ajoajoajo ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Errors compiling revision 3543
On 5 May 2012 13:29, Wayne Stambaugh stambau...@verizon.net wrote: On 5/5/2012 7:57 AM, David J S Briscoe wrote: On 05/05/2012 12:02, Lorenzo Marcantonio wrote: On Sat, May 05, 2012 at 11:42:05AM +0100, David J S Briscoe wrote: If you need any more info I will be pleased to supply it. Thanks It would be useful to actually know what the error was... are you sure there isn't more detail in the logs? Also it's strange, that file IIRC only contains an array declaration for the image... Hi, Turns out it was the same problem as last time (detailed in this email reply) Wayne, Thanks for your reply. David, Your welcome. I'm glad I could help out. libgmp-10.dll is present in C:\kicad-winbuilder\kicad-winbuilder\mingw\bin I have just added this directory to my path manually and the error has disappeared. This is the first time that I have had this problem. I think Brian is the person to sort this out, as it's his script. I don't want to take up any more of your time as I'm sure you have enough on your plate writing code for KiCAD. David. There have been some recent changes to mingw-get which Brian's script uses to pull MinGW that may require some updates to his build script. I've never used the Windows builder but I have plenty of experience with MinGW so I'm pretty versed on it's strengths and weaknesses. Wayne I did the same thing again and it's compiling OK as I write this. I have 2 copies of the MinGW compiler on my system and the script finds the directory that does not contain the above file first and then complains. The reason I've had to do this again is because I've removed/reinstalled the other copy of MinGW a few times as well a the Kicad-winbuilder script. I think that's the reason, could be wrong. I will move a copy of this file to the other installation to make sure. David. Hi David, You can always file bugs like this against the kicad-winbuilder project on launchpad so that I can address the problems. I am currently rolling a new release of kicad-winbuilder so that it is a complete sandbox environment. This will include cmake and bazaar installs, so there will be no dependacies (it is essentially a portable binary release). This should fix all issues like this, and problems with having msys installed (or WinAvr which has msys components in it's install). Thanks for replying to this Wayne. Best Regards, Brian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] You wanted multipage PDFs...
On 2 May 2012 21:01, Lorenzo Marcantonio l.marcanto...@logossrl.com wrote: ... you got multipage PDFs! ... -- Lorenzo Marcantonio Logos Srl Fantastic work Lorenzo!! Thanks very much for this update! Best Regards, Brian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Hating wx configuration more than ever...
On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 08:21:50AM -0500, Dick Hollenbeck wrote: Besides, it gives the computer something to do when it doesn't have anything else to do, which is most of the time. You didn't work with mainframes or embedded system it seems XD Also, remember that you gain in most circumstances since you probably started with serialized bytes. Storage (.e.g. disk or network) is mostly a matter of working with bytes. So this gain tends to balance out the cost you mention with respect to indexing. We are probably burning more cycles converting to 16 or 32 bit characters in KiCad than the cost of indexing for insertion would cost. I specified 'if you aren't only copying them from here to there'. In UTF8 moving forward or backward is O(n) complexity instead of O(1) because character length is variabile. More like a list than an array. a) there is no longer a reason for wxWidgets project to have their own string class. It leads to lack of portability, creates an attachment to wx, and makes folks learn another way of doing something for which there is now a standard in C++. Absolutely concord. b) Microsoft is not a good foundation on which to base any software investment, since they Look at MFC then ATL now .NET :P:P I see 6GB ram *laptops* around. Go buy some, quit whining about opengl. :) We buy laptops second hand because with the ruggeds a 'new' is about 4000 eur :D So now I'm using an original core duo :P:P And Intel GPU is less than stellar with opengl No, that convenience is established by the API. My convenience is not the computer's convenience. Talking in terms of iterator it's more or like the difference between a forward iterator and a random iterator. Said that, people is still doing sorts on mag tape (not really, an equivalent spool), so it's more the algorithms that matter. -- Lorenzo Marcantonio Logos Srl ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad library format
Hello, for now the script can extract all the data from library file and show it in html. Next step is to show every component as a table + zoomable PNG. Milan Dne 8.5.2012 11:23, Milan Horák napsal(a): Hello, I am afraid that I am not as goog programmer as it may look. I use documentation a lot, because of little experience. But I have a goal and I am going towards it. An I will get there :-) I will do as much I can to help. And will release the source too. Milan P.S. I'd like to buy beginners package of worms ;-) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] KiCad library format
I've put the SVG drawing in my scripting wishlist, but it seems like a long task, well, in fact, drawing in any format is a long task :) (or it seems like that to me.) 2012/5/8 Dick Hollenbeck d...@softplc.com On 05/08/2012 02:09 PM, Milan Horák wrote: Hello, for now the script can extract all the data from library file and show it in html. Next step is to show every component as a table + zoomable PNG. The SVG format might be a better idea. Milan Dne 8.5.2012 11:23, Milan Horák napsal(a): Hello, I am afraid that I am not as goog programmer as it may look. I use documentation a lot, because of little experience. But I have a goal and I am going towards it. An I will get there :-) I will do as much I can to help. And will release the source too. Milan P.S. I'd like to buy beginners package of worms ;-) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp . ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Miguel Angel Ajo Pelayo http://www.nbee.es +34 636 52 25 69 skype: ajoajoajo ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Hating wx configuration more than ever...
On 05/08/2012 09:00 AM, Lorenzo Marcantonio wrote: On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 08:21:50AM -0500, Dick Hollenbeck wrote: Besides, it gives the computer something to do when it doesn't have anything else to do, which is most of the time. You didn't work with mainframes or embedded system it seems XD We are not working with embedded systems. We are writing KiCad for computers that have nothing to do except hope you press a key or move a mouse. But I've worked in a number of environments, and about half of it embedded. Embedded software I wrote is used to generate about 3-5% of all the electric power on the power grid in the U.S. now: http://softplc.com/prusace.php The Grand Coulee Dam is the largest power plant in the Unites States. We were chosen in 2008 to replace 40 year old technology. This is the largest power plant in the United States, of any technology, coal, nuclear or other. Its the largest power plant in the U.S. period. Hi hope this qualifies as some embedded experience, because otherwise I would have a more difficult time updating my resume. Also, remember that you gain in most circumstances since you probably started with serialized bytes. Storage (.e.g. disk or network) is mostly a matter of working with bytes. So this gain tends to balance out the cost you mention with respect to indexing. We are probably burning more cycles converting to 16 or 32 bit characters in KiCad than the cost of indexing for insertion would cost. I specified 'if you aren't only copying them from here to there'. In UTF8 moving forward or backward is O(n) complexity instead of O(1) because character length is variabile. More like a list than an array. I agree with this analysis. But as I run KiCad on wx 2.9.HEAD, it is not perceptibly slower than on 2.8. Funny thing. So I don't think O(n) means much here, the computer has nothing else to do. So it is not significantly slower, nor did the wx designers think it would be when they made the choice to use UTF8 inside wxString on linux. So they agree with me that it is a reasonable way to move forward. However, I was just saying that they could have done the whole show using std::string 8 bit, using UTF8, and did not need the extra wxString wrapper. Dick ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
