Re: [Kicad-developers] New border/title blocks?

[Nick Østergaard]

I don't really use the page templates myself much. But I think it may
be time to rethink the page template concept to help it be easier for
the user to also select the correct paper size matching the template.
But I think that is better kept in an issue, but I guess keeping the
thoughts here are fine as we are in lp vs gitlab limbo right now.

But maybe a start could be to make the "Select Page Layout Description
File" open the templates folder in the installation directory if it
exists? Although this can conflict with the behaviour of the dialog
opening where last browsed. This is just an idea, not a "this is how I
think it should be in the end".

On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 at 05:18, Evan Shultz  wrote:
>
> My original request was misinterpreted or otherwise derailed and I'd like to 
> refocus things back to my original question.
>
> It was: "Is there a path to get these worksheets added into KiCad so they 
> appear along with the other options in the 'Size' pulldown menu in the Page 
> Settings dialog in Eeschema?"
>
> Having the new worksheets somewhere in the install directory is nice but it's 
> not very discoverable. Giving nice templates that match industry standard 
> convention the same visibility as the existing worksheets would be the most 
> salient way for KiCad users to take advantage of these new worksheets. In my 
> opinion, anyway.
>
> So, is it possible to make that happen? If so, what is the process? As I 
> said, I'm not very familiar with the code base and I couldn't find files for 
> the existing worksheets in that dialog when I looked around; but if I can get 
> a few pointers about what to do I would be happy to submit a PR.
>
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 2:51 PM Nick Østergaard  wrote:
>>
>> Summa sumarum, from a packaging point of view it is included as it is
>> on other platforms.
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 23:42, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
>> >
>> > I downloaded and installed 5.1.5 on my windows box and it looked like
>> > these worksheets were in the template folder.  I didn't check the entire
>> > list so maybe I got it wrong.
>> >
>> > On 12/1/19 5:34 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
>> > > The templates are packaged like everything else with cmake, so if it is
>> > > not included it is a bug in the templates repo.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 03:16, Ian McInerney > > > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > They appear to be packaged in the update to Fedora, but I don't have
>> > > a Windows install handy to test on to verify what I see there:
>> > >
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/demos/interf_u/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > 
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_landscape.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_portrait.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_default.kicad_wks
>> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
>> > >
>> > > -Ian
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 12:08 AM Evan Shultz > > > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > In 5.1.5_2, on Windows, I don't see these new page layouts. So
>> > > at least in Windows this wasn't packaged. I don't know about
>> > > other OSes.
>> > >
>> > > Perhaps there's a way to make this more obvious so that when new
>> > > page layouts are available all packagers are aware? The
>> > > discussion above reads to me like the KiCad project has 

Re: [Kicad-developers] kicad-i18n on gitlab

[Nick Østergaard]

Are you re-adding it under code?

On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 at 05:38, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
>
> On 2019-12-01 13:43, Nick Østergaard wrote:
>
> > The one under code
> >
> > søn. 1. dec. 2019 22.40 skrev Steven A. Falco :
> >
> >> I see two separate projects for kicad-i18n on gitlab:
> >>
> >> g...@gitlab.com:kicad/code/kicad-i18n.git
> >>
> >> g...@gitlab.com:kicad/kicad-translations/kicad-i18n.git
> >>
> >> They have two different project IDs, so they appear to be different
> >> repositories.  Which one should we pull from when building KiCad?
> >>
> >> Steve
>
> Sorry, I was still sorting the translations.  I previously imported it
> under code but deleted (I thought) and re-imported using KiCad Bot under
> "Translations".  The thinking here was that it was not code and there is
> a different group of committers generally responsible for it.
>
> I'm happy to take other suggestions.
>
> I'm removing the one under code (again) as it has me tagged for missing
> individuals rather than KiCad Bot.
>
> Best-
> Seth
>
> Seth Hillbrand
> KiCad Services Corporation
> https://www.kipro-pcb.com
> +1 530 302 5483 | +1 212 603 9372
>
> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Alexander Shuklin]

Hi all,
I would say, pin swapping is just will be an another tool (you
probably need some specific piece of GUI for that).
The reason I want back-annotation is to have proper geometrical
(geographical) re-annotation. We have contractor who ask if possible
renumber passive components in geometrical order, otherwise assembly
man will get mad when try to solder that by hand.

On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 at 01:17, Vesa Solonen  wrote:
>
> Andy Peters kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 21.45:
>
> > Anyway, it’s a lot easier to update the schematic with the new part and 
> > then forward-annotate, and this keeps both schematic and layout in sync.
>
> Assuming there is the schematic to start with. Sometimes it happens that
> there is just PCB data and one has to go backwards. Commercially that
> rarely makes sense and one may buy pretty extensive reverse engineering
> service form dedicated operators.
>
> > Pin-swapping and gate-swapping are much more important. The pin swapping 
> > makes for an interesting problem, which is making sure the resulting 
> > schematic isn’t a mess. Most likely an informal (or required) “rule” would 
> > be that you draw a net from each pin that can be swapped and you give them 
> > net labels, but you don’t draw that net to any other pin.
>
> Yes. This is exactly why I see value in a completely bilateral system.
> Drawing a schematic would benefit just as much autorouter as well as
> rubberbanding.
>
> > Thanks to everyone involved in adding the back-annotation feature!
>
> Indeed!
>
> -Vesa
>
> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] kicad-i18n on gitlab

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 2019-12-01 13:43, Nick Østergaard wrote:


The one under code

søn. 1. dec. 2019 22.40 skrev Steven A. Falco :


I see two separate projects for kicad-i18n on gitlab:

g...@gitlab.com:kicad/code/kicad-i18n.git

g...@gitlab.com:kicad/kicad-translations/kicad-i18n.git

They have two different project IDs, so they appear to be different 
repositories.  Which one should we pull from when building KiCad?


Steve


Sorry, I was still sorting the translations.  I previously imported it 
under code but deleted (I thought) and re-imported using KiCad Bot under 
"Translations".  The thinking here was that it was not code and there is 
a different group of committers generally responsible for it.


I'm happy to take other suggestions.

I'm removing the one under code (again) as it has me tagged for missing 
individuals rather than KiCad Bot.


Best-
Seth

Seth Hillbrand
KiCad Services Corporation
https://www.kipro-pcb.com
+1 530 302 5483 | +1 212 603 9372

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Re: [Kicad-developers] New border/title blocks?

[Evan Shultz]

My original request was misinterpreted or otherwise derailed and I'd like
to refocus things back to my original question.

It was: "Is there a path to get these worksheets added into KiCad so they
appear along with the other options in the 'Size' pulldown menu in the Page
Settings dialog in Eeschema?"

Having the new worksheets somewhere in the install directory is nice but
it's not very discoverable. Giving nice templates that match industry
standard convention the same visibility as the existing worksheets would be
the most salient way for KiCad users to take advantage of these new
worksheets. In my opinion, anyway.

So, is it possible to make that happen? If so, what is the process? As I
said, I'm not very familiar with the code base and I couldn't find files
for the existing worksheets in that dialog when I looked around; but if I
can get a few pointers about what to do I would be happy to submit a PR.

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 2:51 PM Nick Østergaard  wrote:

> Summa sumarum, from a packaging point of view it is included as it is
> on other platforms.
>
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 23:42, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
> >
> > I downloaded and installed 5.1.5 on my windows box and it looked like
> > these worksheets were in the template folder.  I didn't check the entire
> > list so maybe I got it wrong.
> >
> > On 12/1/19 5:34 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> > > The templates are packaged like everything else with cmake, so if it is
> > > not included it is a bug in the templates repo.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 03:16, Ian McInerney  > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > They appear to be packaged in the update to Fedora, but I don't
> have
> > > a Windows install handy to test on to verify what I see there:
> > >
> > > /usr/share/kicad/demos/interf_u/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > >
>  
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_landscape.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_portrait.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_default.kicad_wks
> > > /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
> > >
> > > -Ian
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 12:08 AM Evan Shultz <
> evan.shu...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > In 5.1.5_2, on Windows, I don't see these new page layouts. So
> > > at least in Windows this wasn't packaged. I don't know about
> > > other OSes.
> > >
> > > Perhaps there's a way to make this more obvious so that when
> new
> > > page layouts are available all packagers are aware? The
> > > discussion above reads to me like the KiCad project has no
> > > control over this and my expectation would be that page
> layouts,
> > > templates, and other "extras" that are in the official repos
> > > would be included and consistent in all KiCad installs across
> > > all OSes.
> > >
> > > Nick, is packaging Windows your domain? Is there any way I
> could
> > > help to get them included in an updated 5.1.5 release or 5.1.6?
> > > I know the GitLab stuff is taking a lot of time from everybody
> > > but I don't want to let this wither away.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 8:52 AM Evan Shultz
> > > mailto:evan.shu...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Seth! It would be great to have more templates
> > > available for KiCad users. You can ping me for the review
> > > when you post the 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Space used on server

[Nick Østergaard]

Hi Tedd^2

Yeah, I probably didn't specify a proper ttl for some objects in some
directories, but you should definitely architect your mirroring
solution to handle that upstream has more data than you would like to
mirror, if it is an issue for you to keep up with the amount of data
upstream.

On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 at 11:26, tedd.t...@gmail.com  wrote:
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> I'm not asking for anything. Just, I'm using a hacky way to mirror the
> downloads to Sourceforge, involving storing a complete copy locally.
> I'm definitely going to architect a solution that doesn't require that
> if it becomes a problem for me, but I thought I'd let the list know
> just in case no-one's aware.
>
> Thanks,
> Tedd
>
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 at 20:17, Nick Østergaard  wrote:
> >
> > What are you asking?
> >
> > On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 at 10:44, tedd.t...@gmail.com  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Just a quick note in case no-one's aware. I remember before the move
> > > to CERN's infrastructure, the server hosting all the builds had a
> > > script to delete old testing builds, presumably to keep space used in
> > > check.
> > >
> > > Since the move, there hasn't been any deletions of testing builds, and
> > > as of now, is coming up to 900GB, increasing about 100GB a month.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Tedd
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fixes for Visual Studio / vcpkg build

[Nick Østergaard]

It uses -G "Visual Studio 15 2017" as the generator.

On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 23:45, Jon Evans  wrote:
>
> What environment does that build use? My patches were necessary for VS2019 
> using default compiler settings
>
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 17:32 Nick Østergaard  wrote:
>>
>> Oh, ok. Then I wonder why Jon needed to patch it.
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 20:14, Simon Richter  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Nick,
>> >
>> > On 01.12.19 20:07, Nick Østergaard wrote:
>> >
>> > > OK, cool, it looks like the msvc builds on jenkins are back in green 
>> > > again :)
>> >
>> > > https://jenkins.simonrichter.eu/job/windows-kicad-msvc-head/
>> >
>> > They were broken at the same time as the Linux builds :)
>> >
>> >Simon
>> >
>> > ___
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>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New border/title blocks?

[Nick Østergaard]

Summa sumarum, from a packaging point of view it is included as it is
on other platforms.

On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 23:42, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
>
> I downloaded and installed 5.1.5 on my windows box and it looked like
> these worksheets were in the template folder.  I didn't check the entire
> list so maybe I got it wrong.
>
> On 12/1/19 5:34 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> > The templates are packaged like everything else with cmake, so if it is
> > not included it is a bug in the templates repo.
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 03:16, Ian McInerney  > > wrote:
> >
> > They appear to be packaged in the update to Fedora, but I don't have
> > a Windows install handy to test on to verify what I see there:
> >
> > /usr/share/kicad/demos/interf_u/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> > 
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_landscape.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_portrait.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_default.kicad_wks
> > /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
> >
> > -Ian
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 12:08 AM Evan Shultz  > > wrote:
> >
> > In 5.1.5_2, on Windows, I don't see these new page layouts. So
> > at least in Windows this wasn't packaged. I don't know about
> > other OSes.
> >
> > Perhaps there's a way to make this more obvious so that when new
> > page layouts are available all packagers are aware? The
> > discussion above reads to me like the KiCad project has no
> > control over this and my expectation would be that page layouts,
> > templates, and other "extras" that are in the official repos
> > would be included and consistent in all KiCad installs across
> > all OSes.
> >
> > Nick, is packaging Windows your domain? Is there any way I could
> > help to get them included in an updated 5.1.5 release or 5.1.6?
> > I know the GitLab stuff is taking a lot of time from everybody
> > but I don't want to let this wither away.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 8:52 AM Evan Shultz
> > mailto:evan.shu...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Seth! It would be great to have more templates
> > available for KiCad users. You can ping me for the review
> > when you post the PR.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 9:44 PM Seth Hillbrand
> > mailto:s...@kipro-pcb.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 2019-11-13 15:54, Evan Shultz wrote:
> >
> >> The contributor submitted ISO templates and the
> >> librarians have access to those standards, thus the
> >> review and merge could proceed.
> >
> > Fair enough
> >
> >> None of the librarians have access to the ASME
> >> standards and thus we could not properly review and
> >> vet them even if they were contributed. Should ASME
> >> templates be contributed that can be reviewed, they
> >> would be welcomed.
> >
> > OK, I can handle the ASME template submission.  If you
> > run into standards in the future that the
> > librarians don't have access to, feel free to ping the
> > dev list.  We have a fair cross section of engineers who
> > can help with reviews although we 

Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fixes for Visual Studio / vcpkg build

[Jon Evans]

What environment does that build use? My patches were necessary for VS2019
using default compiler settings

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 17:32 Nick Østergaard  wrote:

> Oh, ok. Then I wonder why Jon needed to patch it.
>
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 20:14, Simon Richter 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Nick,
> >
> > On 01.12.19 20:07, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> >
> > > OK, cool, it looks like the msvc builds on jenkins are back in green
> again :)
> >
> > > https://jenkins.simonrichter.eu/job/windows-kicad-msvc-head/
> >
> > They were broken at the same time as the Linux builds :)
> >
> >Simon
> >
> > ___
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> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New border/title blocks?

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I downloaded and installed 5.1.5 on my windows box and it looked like
these worksheets were in the template folder.  I didn't check the entire
list so maybe I got it wrong.

On 12/1/19 5:34 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> The templates are packaged like everything else with cmake, so if it is
> not included it is a bug in the templates repo.
> 
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 03:16, Ian McInerney  > wrote:
> 
> They appear to be packaged in the update to Fedora, but I don't have
> a Windows install handy to test on to verify what I see there:
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/demos/interf_u/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
> 
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_landscape.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_portrait.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_default.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
> 
> -Ian
> 
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 12:08 AM Evan Shultz  > wrote:
> 
> In 5.1.5_2, on Windows, I don't see these new page layouts. So
> at least in Windows this wasn't packaged. I don't know about
> other OSes.
> 
> Perhaps there's a way to make this more obvious so that when new
> page layouts are available all packagers are aware? The
> discussion above reads to me like the KiCad project has no
> control over this and my expectation would be that page layouts,
> templates, and other "extras" that are in the official repos
> would be included and consistent in all KiCad installs across
> all OSes.
> 
> Nick, is packaging Windows your domain? Is there any way I could
> help to get them included in an updated 5.1.5 release or 5.1.6?
> I know the GitLab stuff is taking a lot of time from everybody
> but I don't want to let this wither away.
> 
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 8:52 AM Evan Shultz
> mailto:evan.shu...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Seth! It would be great to have more templates
> available for KiCad users. You can ping me for the review
> when you post the PR.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 9:44 PM Seth Hillbrand
> mailto:s...@kipro-pcb.com>> wrote:
> 
> On 2019-11-13 15:54, Evan Shultz wrote:
> 
>> The contributor submitted ISO templates and the
>> librarians have access to those standards, thus the
>> review and merge could proceed.
>  
> Fair enough
>  
>> None of the librarians have access to the ASME
>> standards and thus we could not properly review and
>> vet them even if they were contributed. Should ASME
>> templates be contributed that can be reviewed, they
>> would be welcomed.
>  
> OK, I can handle the ASME template submission.  If you
> run into standards in the future that the
> librarians don't have access to, feel free to ping the
> dev list.  We have a fair cross section of engineers who
> can help with reviews although we don't always follow
> the PRs at GitHub.
>  
>  
> -Seth
>  
>  
> KiCad Services Corporation KiCad Services Corporation Logo
> Seth Hillbrand
>  

Re: [Kicad-developers] New border/title blocks?

[Nick Østergaard]

The templates are packaged like everything else with cmake, so if it is not
included it is a bug in the templates repo.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 03:16, Ian McInerney 
wrote:

> They appear to be packaged in the update to Fedora, but I don't have a
> Windows install handy to test on to verify what I see there:
>
> /usr/share/kicad/demos/interf_u/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A2_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A3_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4-portrait_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004-compact_EN.kicad_wks
>
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_ASMEY1435-2014_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/A4_ISO5457-1999_ISO7200-2004_EN.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_landscape.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/gost_portrait.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_default.kicad_wks
> /usr/share/kicad/template/pagelayout_logo.kicad_wks
>
> -Ian
>
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 12:08 AM Evan Shultz 
> wrote:
>
>> In 5.1.5_2, on Windows, I don't see these new page layouts. So at least
>> in Windows this wasn't packaged. I don't know about other OSes.
>>
>> Perhaps there's a way to make this more obvious so that when new page
>> layouts are available all packagers are aware? The discussion above reads
>> to me like the KiCad project has no control over this and my expectation
>> would be that page layouts, templates, and other "extras" that are in the
>> official repos would be included and consistent in all KiCad installs
>> across all OSes.
>>
>> Nick, is packaging Windows your domain? Is there any way I could help to
>> get them included in an updated 5.1.5 release or 5.1.6? I know the GitLab
>> stuff is taking a lot of time from everybody but I don't want to let this
>> wither away.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 8:52 AM Evan Shultz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Seth! It would be great to have more templates available for
>>> KiCad users. You can ping me for the review when you post the PR.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 9:44 PM Seth Hillbrand 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On 2019-11-13 15:54, Evan Shultz wrote:

 The contributor submitted ISO templates and the librarians have access
 to those standards, thus the review and merge could proceed.


 Fair enough


 None of the librarians have access to the ASME standards and thus we
 could not properly review and vet them even if they were contributed.
 Should ASME templates be contributed that can be reviewed, they would be
 welcomed.


 OK, I can handle the ASME template submission.  If you run into
 standards in the future that the librarians don't have access to, feel free
 to ping the dev list.  We have a fair cross section of engineers who can
 help with reviews although we don't always follow the PRs at GitHub.


 -Seth


 KiCad Services Corporation [image: KiCad Services Corporation Logo]
 Seth Hillbrand
 *Lead Developer*
 +1-530-302-5483‬ <+12126039372>
 Davis, CA
 www.kipro-pcb.comi...@kipro-pcb.com
 https://twitter.com/KiProEDA 
 https://www.linkedin.com/company/kicad
 

>>> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fixes for Visual Studio / vcpkg build

[Nick Østergaard]

Oh, ok. Then I wonder why Jon needed to patch it.

On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 20:14, Simon Richter  wrote:
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> On 01.12.19 20:07, Nick Østergaard wrote:
>
> > OK, cool, it looks like the msvc builds on jenkins are back in green again 
> > :)
>
> > https://jenkins.simonrichter.eu/job/windows-kicad-msvc-head/
>
> They were broken at the same time as the Linux builds :)
>
>Simon
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Vesa Solonen]

Andy Peters kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 21.45:

> Anyway, it’s a lot easier to update the schematic with the new part and then 
> forward-annotate, and this keeps both schematic and layout in sync.

Assuming there is the schematic to start with. Sometimes it happens that
there is just PCB data and one has to go backwards. Commercially that
rarely makes sense and one may buy pretty extensive reverse engineering
service form dedicated operators.

> Pin-swapping and gate-swapping are much more important. The pin swapping 
> makes for an interesting problem, which is making sure the resulting 
> schematic isn’t a mess. Most likely an informal (or required) “rule” would be 
> that you draw a net from each pin that can be swapped and you give them net 
> labels, but you don’t draw that net to any other pin.

Yes. This is exactly why I see value in a completely bilateral system.
Drawing a schematic would benefit just as much autorouter as well as
rubberbanding.

> Thanks to everyone involved in adding the back-annotation feature!

Indeed!

-Vesa

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[ja...@veith.net]

> On 01.12.19 21:06, Jon Evans wrote:


1) 
some cases (critical controlled impedance, small BGA decoupling, etc) we 
may decide during layout that it is best to switch to the "high density" 
(minimal pad size) version of the 0402.


This is alternate footprint. Implementation by reference in new symbol 
library would allow things like automatic footprint change for reflow / 
wave soldering if component pushed from front to back. Schematic is not 
affected and no need for backannotate. Data source should be symbol 
library rather than pcb. Allow workflow using footprints not defined in 
approved symbol lib is a further source for individual issues in the 
design. Kicad also always need generic workflow but avoid discussion 
about atomic lib here.
2) similarly, we might have a design with 0402 passives that we 
determine during layout needs to switch to 0201 in some cases to make 
proper layout possible.


This is a device change what affects schematic BOM. Probably it is 
useful to have a device change dialog for devices using same inherited 
drawable symbol (typical value change) whith/whithout copper changes. 
For intuitive use I would search this dialog in eeschema and it could be 
similar useful than text editor search by regex. For exmaple 
change all pullup resistors from 4k7 to 1k.


Today typical 4k hi-res screens are in use for CAD. I always have the 
schematic on the screen beside PCB while routing. No need for reverse 
workflow. A powerful cross-probe highlight zoom/pan  is the better boost 
of productivity in this stage of the design. Agree with Brian, also my 
circuits have many changes while routing. This may be diffrent for 
contract PCB people what receive "ready" schematic from designer. PCB is 
another view of your schematic what always gives you diffrent insights 
and reasons not to follow the classical waterfall design workflow.


IMHO back annotate is usefull in 4 cases what all belong to the nice to 
have category. Same things can be done already without backannotation 
with only little manual work.


1) Pin swap: For example between the 2 inputs of a 7400 NAND gate
will only change 2 pin numbers in schematic. Using uC/FPGA with visible 
PinNames, these should also change using back annotation.


2) Gate swap: For example swap 2 (of four) NAND gates of a 7400
will change 2x3 pin numbers in schematic. Although Eagle and other Ecad 
is doing so, I would prefer not using A,B,C,D,E suffix to reference.  We 
see the gate position inside IC by pin numbers and all gates including 
power box may have the same reference. Warnings for unused gates is a 
matter of schematic DRC.


3) Intercomponent swap. For example if you have several 7400 in your 
circuit and change two gates between diffrent components. This is 
similar to 2 but reference change (not only reference suffix) is required.


4) geo or partitial manual renumber

Assume all, backanotate only needs Reference, PinNumber, PinName.
I dont see any disadvantage if backannotation writes changes to file(s) 
what are executed later on demand like forward annotate or netload is 
now. This allows to try several swap configurations and then 
backannotate after decision for best variant is done.


best
Jan

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[Kicad-developers] kicad-i18n on gitlab

[Steven A. Falco]

I see two separate projects for kicad-i18n on gitlab:

g...@gitlab.com:kicad/code/kicad-i18n.git

g...@gitlab.com:kicad/kicad-translations/kicad-i18n.git

They have two different project IDs, so they appear to be different 
repositories.  Which one should we pull from when building KiCad?

Steve

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Brian Piccioni]

As a complete amateur user I change footprints in layout all the time in order to experiment with spacing, how things look, modfy footprints, etc.. Sometimes you want to make a change to a library part, flag that part as a new part (I.e. BriansSOIC8), then update all SOIC8 in the layout.  The way I see it (and, again, as an amateur) is that making a change in the PCB then having to manually update the schematic is fraught with potential issues. Since we *can* change the footprint in the PCB it should be as easy as possible to then update the schematic with no error. Nobody would be forcing anybody to change their workflow: just making whatever method works best work better. Brian From: Jon EvansSent: December 1, 2019 3:06 PMTo: Andy PetersCc: KiCad DevelopersSubject: Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB From another professional user, I have to disagree. There are at least two cases I can think of where changing the footprint during layout is important: 1) In my experience, it's common to keep multiple variants of IPC standard SMD footprints, especially for passives. By default, we specify the "medium density" variant of an 0402 resistor or capacitor, but in some cases (critical controlled impedance, small BGA decoupling, etc) we may decide during layout that it is best to switch to the "high density" (minimal pad size) version of the 0402. 2) similarly, we might have a design with 0402 passives that we determine during layout needs to switch to 0201 in some cases to make proper layout possible. In this case, it's indeed an entirely different part, not just a variant footprint for the same part, but the decision is made at layout time and back-annotated onto the schematic (which will then drive the BOM).  Neither of these workflows is particularly easy in KiCad today, but I'm mostly talking about my experience with commercial tools here.  This isn't necessarily me saying that these workflows need to be supported by this current back-annotation effort (I think they also depend on several other large future changes), just saying they are valid in my opinion.  -Jon On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 14:46 Andy Peters  wrote:> On Dec 1, 2019, at 6:59 AM, Vesa Solonen  wrote:> > Eeli Kaikkonen kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 0.08:> >> BTW, about the possibility of changing the footprint - I have always found>> being able to change footprints in pcbnew strange because then it's out of>> sync with the schematic and it has to be changed in the schematic manually>> and updated to layout anyways. Being able to update it from the layout to>> the schematic looks like an obvious missing feature.> > I would consider it a missing feature that the schematic-layout path is> anything but completely bilateral. Everything should be editable and> propagated both ways and question remains does it even make sense to> have different files. If a footprint is added or gate/pin swapped on the> PCB side the changes should show as rubber bands on the schematic, just> like it works from update PCB form schematic. Proper back annotation is> a good middle target, but having complete seamless bilateral data and> action model is way more usable albeit complex.I want to add the perspective of a professional user. We don’t change footprints in the layout editor. Why? Because NE5532D in SOIC-8 is not the same part as NE5532P in PDIP-8. Going backwards in this manner blows up the BOM, unless you can work out some way of back-annotating a different part number for each instance of this device without making mistakes. The footprints in pcbnew have no knowledge of a part number, so there is no way of changing that in layout and bringing it back to schematic.(I assume that most people use the schematic as the “master source,” and BOMs and such are generated from it, not layout.)The "house part number” decouples a thing on your schematic from what you order. There are a dozen resistor manufacturers, so rather than putting “manufacturer=Panasonic” and “base part number=ERJ-“ in the symbol, you can just put a house part number in a PN field and then a downstream database can map it to what your purchasing person can order.Anyway, it’s a lot easier to update the schematic with the new part and then forward-annotate, and this keeps both schematic and layout in sync.Pin-swapping and gate-swapping are much more important. The pin swapping makes for an interesting problem, which is making sure the resulting schematic isn’t a mess. Most likely an informal (or required) “rule” would be that you draw a net from each pin that can be swapped and you give them net labels, but you don’t draw that net to any other pin.Thanks to everyone involved in adding the back-annotation feature!-a___Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersPost to     : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developersMore help   : 

Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Three new source types added to DIALOG_SPICE_MODEL

[Sylwester Kocjan]

Hi,

Evan's patch was merged, but mine with code change for those sources is 
not included in master currently. Can I kindly ask for update, is there 
something wrong with my code?


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x_YDsIw6FhgJFEsDgteEl5L5PGwSsCiz/view?usp=sharing 



Best regards,
Sylwester

On 13/11/2019 22:48, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:

Hi Evan,

I think keeping the included project symbol library is the safest bet in
case the global library changes.  We had to continually update demos in
the past so this is the path of least resistance.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 11/13/19 4:24 PM, Evan Shultz wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Thanks!

Yes it is! It was merged in the GH PR I sent above, and is currently
at https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols and
mirrored at http://kicad-pcb.org/libraries/download/ from the main KiCad
website. So you can merge to 5.1.

Would it be accepted if I updated the existing demo projects with
symbols from this lib instead of the "unique" symbols used in the demo
projects now?

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 1:18 PM Wayne Stambaugh mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 Hi Evan,

 I merged your patch into the master branch.  Thank you for your
 contribution to KiCad.  Just out of curiosity, is the Simulation_SPICE
 library shipped with the 5.1 build?  If so, I can merger this demo into
 the 5.1 branch.  Users might find it useful to demo the sources provided
 by this library.  If not, then there is no reason to merge it into 5.1.

 Cheers,

 Wayne

 On 11/12/19 2:55 PM, Evan Shultz wrote:
 > Hi Wayne,
 >
 > Attached is the patch for the new V and I source simulation demo
 project
 > I mentioned. For reference, it was initially posted
 > at https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/pull/1473.
 >
 > If you like, I can also update the existing simulation demos with
 > 'standard' library components in the Simulation_SPICE directory
 instead
 > of the 'one-off' symbols used now.
 >
 > Sorry for the hijacking.
 >
 > Evan
 >
 > On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 5:31 AM Wayne Stambaugh
 mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 >     Hi Even,
 >
 >     I was cleaning my inbox and I noticed I hadn't commented on your
 >     request.  If you have a demo project that utilizes the spice
 library
 >     changes you made, I would be more than happy to include it in
 master.
 >     Please send a patch with demo project and I will merge it
 after I've
 >     tested it and made any comments.
 >
 >     Cheers,
 >
 >     Wayne
 >
 >     On 10/23/19 3:55 PM, Evan Shultz wrote:
 >     > Hi,
 >     >
 >     > Apologies for the slight tangent...
 >     >
 >     > When I submitted symbols for all V and I sources supported
 by ngspice
 >     > at https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/pull/1473, I created a
 >     > simulation schematic to show off their output waveforms.
 Some of them
 >     > can use the source control features here. I thought this
 might be
 >     > helpful when testing this patch
 >     >
 >     > It may also be useful to include the SPICE source simulation
 as a
 >     demo.
 >     > If so, should I make a bug on launchpad?
 >     >
 >     > On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 2:00 PM Sylwester Kocjan
 mailto:s.koc...@o2.pl>
 >     >
 >     > 
      >
 >     >     On 20/10/2019 20:53, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
 >     >     > On 2019-10-20 08:36, Sylwester Kocjan wrote:
 >     >     >> Hi,
 >     >     >>
 >     >     >> Here is a patch with three additional source models
 >     implemented:
 >     >     SFFM,
 >     >     >> AM and Random.
 >     >     >>
 >     >     >> I hope this looks ok, cause I had troubles with
 configuring
 >     >     >> clang-format on Windows. If no, I can correct.
 >     >     >>
 >     >     >> Best regards,
 >     >     >> Sylwester
 >     >     >>
 >     >     >> ___
 >     >     >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
 >     >     >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
 
 >     >
 >     >     
 >     >>
 >     >     >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
 >     >     >> More help   : 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Which GitLab issues tracker are we going to use?

[Jeff Young]

Ahh… yes, if you try to log a but at the top level you get a green button 
“Select project to create issue”.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 1 Dec 2019, at 20:54, Ian McInerney  wrote:
> 
> Issues must live in a project, so the issues for the KiCad code must go in 
> the Kicad/code/kicad list. The other lists (KiCad and KiCad/code) just show 
> all issues for all the projects underneath that folder.
> 
> -Ian
> 
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jeff Young  > wrote:
> Kicad, Kicad/code or Kicad/code/kicad?
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Which GitLab issues tracker are we going to use?

[Ian McInerney]

Issues must live in a project, so the issues for the KiCad code must go in
the Kicad/code/kicad list. The other lists (KiCad and KiCad/code) just show
all issues for all the projects underneath that folder.

-Ian

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jeff Young  wrote:

> Kicad, Kicad/code or Kicad/code/kicad?
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Which GitLab issues tracker are we going to use?

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I would think kicad/code/kicad for KiCad source issues.  It looks to me
like ./kicad is all of the issues for all of the repos but maybe I'm not
seeing this correctly.

On 12/1/19 3:51 PM, Jeff Young wrote:
> Kicad, Kicad/code or Kicad/code/kicad?
> 
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[Kicad-developers] Which GitLab issues tracker are we going to use?

[Jeff Young]

Kicad, Kicad/code or Kicad/code/kicad?

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Andy Peters]

> On Dec 1, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Jon Evans  wrote:
> 
> From another professional user, I have to disagree. There are at least two 
> cases I can think of where changing the footprint during layout is important:
> 
> 1) In my experience, it's common to keep multiple variants of IPC standard 
> SMD footprints, especially for passives. By default, we specify the "medium 
> density" variant of an 0402 resistor or capacitor, but in some cases 
> (critical controlled impedance, small BGA decoupling, etc) we may decide 
> during layout that it is best to switch to the "high density" (minimal pad 
> size) version of the 0402.

> 2) similarly, we might have a design with 0402 passives that we determine 
> during layout needs to switch to 0201 in some cases to make proper layout 
> possible. In this case, it's indeed an entirely different part, not just a 
> variant footprint for the same part, but the decision is made at layout time 
> and back-annotated onto the schematic (which will then drive the BOM). 
> 
> Neither of these workflows is particularly easy in KiCad today, but I'm 
> mostly talking about my experience with commercial tools here. 
> 
> This isn't necessarily me saying that these workflows need to be supported by 
> this current back-annotation effort (I think they also depend on several 
> other large future changes), just saying they are valid in my opinion. 

We do both of what you mention. But (and this is with Altium at the day job) 
when those footprint-change decisions are made, the layout guy finds it easier 
to update the schematics with the correct part and go forward. We do have 
symbols for the same part that call out the different footprints as needed for 
fab reasons.

Our main layout guy has access to the schematics and he keeps both the layout 
and the schematic on screen while working. So sure, a change like this is made 
at layout time, but it certainly seems easier to just change the schematic and 
go forward. Especially since you can do searches in the schematic editor for 
any set of parameters you like and let it change them all at the same time.

But of course everyone has methods that work for them.

-a 


> 
> -Jon 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 14:46 Andy Peters  > wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Dec 1, 2019, at 6:59 AM, Vesa Solonen  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Eeli Kaikkonen kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 0.08:
> > 
> >> BTW, about the possibility of changing the footprint - I have always found
> >> being able to change footprints in pcbnew strange because then it's out of
> >> sync with the schematic and it has to be changed in the schematic manually
> >> and updated to layout anyways. Being able to update it from the layout to
> >> the schematic looks like an obvious missing feature.
> > 
> > I would consider it a missing feature that the schematic-layout path is
> > anything but completely bilateral. Everything should be editable and
> > propagated both ways and question remains does it even make sense to
> > have different files. If a footprint is added or gate/pin swapped on the
> > PCB side the changes should show as rubber bands on the schematic, just
> > like it works from update PCB form schematic. Proper back annotation is
> > a good middle target, but having complete seamless bilateral data and
> > action model is way more usable albeit complex.
> 
> I want to add the perspective of a professional user. 
> 
> We don’t change footprints in the layout editor. Why? Because NE5532D in 
> SOIC-8 is not the same part as NE5532P in PDIP-8. Going backwards in this 
> manner blows up the BOM, unless you can work out some way of back-annotating 
> a different part number for each instance of this device without making 
> mistakes. The footprints in pcbnew have no knowledge of a part number, so 
> there is no way of changing that in layout and bringing it back to schematic.
> 
> (I assume that most people use the schematic as the “master source,” and BOMs 
> and such are generated from it, not layout.)
> 
> The "house part number” decouples a thing on your schematic from what you 
> order. There are a dozen resistor manufacturers, so rather than putting 
> “manufacturer=Panasonic” and “base part number=ERJ-“ in the symbol, you can 
> just put a house part number in a PN field and then a downstream database can 
> map it to what your purchasing person can order.
> 
> Anyway, it’s a lot easier to update the schematic with the new part and then 
> forward-annotate, and this keeps both schematic and layout in sync.
> 
> Pin-swapping and gate-swapping are much more important. The pin swapping 
> makes for an interesting problem, which is making sure the resulting 
> schematic isn’t a mess. Most likely an informal (or required) “rule” would be 
> that you draw a net from each pin that can be swapped and you give them net 
> labels, but you don’t draw that net to any other pin.
> 
> Thanks to everyone involved in adding the back-annotation feature!
> 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Jon Evans]

>From another professional user, I have to disagree. There are at least two
cases I can think of where changing the footprint during layout is
important:

1) In my experience, it's common to keep multiple variants of IPC standard
SMD footprints, especially for passives. By default, we specify the "medium
density" variant of an 0402 resistor or capacitor, but in some cases
(critical controlled impedance, small BGA decoupling, etc) we may decide
during layout that it is best to switch to the "high density" (minimal pad
size) version of the 0402.

2) similarly, we might have a design with 0402 passives that we determine
during layout needs to switch to 0201 in some cases to make proper layout
possible. In this case, it's indeed an entirely different part, not just a
variant footprint for the same part, but the decision is made at layout
time and back-annotated onto the schematic (which will then drive the BOM).

Neither of these workflows is particularly easy in KiCad today, but I'm
mostly talking about my experience with commercial tools here.

This isn't necessarily me saying that these workflows need to be supported
by this current back-annotation effort (I think they also depend on several
other large future changes), just saying they are valid in my opinion.

-Jon

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 14:46 Andy Peters  wrote:

>
>
> > On Dec 1, 2019, at 6:59 AM, Vesa Solonen  wrote:
> >
> > Eeli Kaikkonen kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 0.08:
> >
> >> BTW, about the possibility of changing the footprint - I have always
> found
> >> being able to change footprints in pcbnew strange because then it's out
> of
> >> sync with the schematic and it has to be changed in the schematic
> manually
> >> and updated to layout anyways. Being able to update it from the layout
> to
> >> the schematic looks like an obvious missing feature.
> >
> > I would consider it a missing feature that the schematic-layout path is
> > anything but completely bilateral. Everything should be editable and
> > propagated both ways and question remains does it even make sense to
> > have different files. If a footprint is added or gate/pin swapped on the
> > PCB side the changes should show as rubber bands on the schematic, just
> > like it works from update PCB form schematic. Proper back annotation is
> > a good middle target, but having complete seamless bilateral data and
> > action model is way more usable albeit complex.
>
> I want to add the perspective of a professional user.
>
> We don’t change footprints in the layout editor. Why? Because NE5532D in
> SOIC-8 is not the same part as NE5532P in PDIP-8. Going backwards in this
> manner blows up the BOM, unless you can work out some way of
> back-annotating a different part number for each instance of this device
> without making mistakes. The footprints in pcbnew have no knowledge of a
> part number, so there is no way of changing that in layout and bringing it
> back to schematic.
>
> (I assume that most people use the schematic as the “master source,” and
> BOMs and such are generated from it, not layout.)
>
> The "house part number” decouples a thing on your schematic from what you
> order. There are a dozen resistor manufacturers, so rather than putting
> “manufacturer=Panasonic” and “base part number=ERJ-“ in the symbol, you can
> just put a house part number in a PN field and then a downstream database
> can map it to what your purchasing person can order.
>
> Anyway, it’s a lot easier to update the schematic with the new part and
> then forward-annotate, and this keeps both schematic and layout in sync.
>
> Pin-swapping and gate-swapping are much more important. The pin swapping
> makes for an interesting problem, which is making sure the resulting
> schematic isn’t a mess. Most likely an informal (or required) “rule” would
> be that you draw a net from each pin that can be swapped and you give them
> net labels, but you don’t draw that net to any other pin.
>
> Thanks to everyone involved in adding the back-annotation feature!
>
> -a
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Andy Peters]

> On Dec 1, 2019, at 6:59 AM, Vesa Solonen  wrote:
> 
> Eeli Kaikkonen kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 0.08:
> 
>> BTW, about the possibility of changing the footprint - I have always found
>> being able to change footprints in pcbnew strange because then it's out of
>> sync with the schematic and it has to be changed in the schematic manually
>> and updated to layout anyways. Being able to update it from the layout to
>> the schematic looks like an obvious missing feature.
> 
> I would consider it a missing feature that the schematic-layout path is
> anything but completely bilateral. Everything should be editable and
> propagated both ways and question remains does it even make sense to
> have different files. If a footprint is added or gate/pin swapped on the
> PCB side the changes should show as rubber bands on the schematic, just
> like it works from update PCB form schematic. Proper back annotation is
> a good middle target, but having complete seamless bilateral data and
> action model is way more usable albeit complex.

I want to add the perspective of a professional user. 

We don’t change footprints in the layout editor. Why? Because NE5532D in SOIC-8 
is not the same part as NE5532P in PDIP-8. Going backwards in this manner blows 
up the BOM, unless you can work out some way of back-annotating a different 
part number for each instance of this device without making mistakes. The 
footprints in pcbnew have no knowledge of a part number, so there is no way of 
changing that in layout and bringing it back to schematic.

(I assume that most people use the schematic as the “master source,” and BOMs 
and such are generated from it, not layout.)

The "house part number” decouples a thing on your schematic from what you 
order. There are a dozen resistor manufacturers, so rather than putting 
“manufacturer=Panasonic” and “base part number=ERJ-“ in the symbol, you can 
just put a house part number in a PN field and then a downstream database can 
map it to what your purchasing person can order.

Anyway, it’s a lot easier to update the schematic with the new part and then 
forward-annotate, and this keeps both schematic and layout in sync.

Pin-swapping and gate-swapping are much more important. The pin swapping makes 
for an interesting problem, which is making sure the resulting schematic isn’t 
a mess. Most likely an informal (or required) “rule” would be that you draw a 
net from each pin that can be swapped and you give them net labels, but you 
don’t draw that net to any other pin.

Thanks to everyone involved in adding the back-annotation feature!

-a




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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fixes for Visual Studio / vcpkg build

[Simon Richter]

Hi Nick,

On 01.12.19 20:07, Nick Østergaard wrote:

> OK, cool, it looks like the msvc builds on jenkins are back in green again :)

> https://jenkins.simonrichter.eu/job/windows-kicad-msvc-head/

They were broken at the same time as the Linux builds :)

   Simon



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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fixes for Visual Studio / vcpkg build

[Nick Østergaard]

OK, cool, it looks like the msvc builds on jenkins are back in green again :)

https://jenkins.simonrichter.eu/job/windows-kicad-msvc-head/

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 at 03:19, Jon Evans  wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> I will try to write a better guide, especially if I can get a full (all 
> options) KiCad build going rather than a minimal one.
>
> In the meantime, I'm attaching my CMakeSettings.json from VS2019 in case it's 
> helpful.
> It has a hard-coded toolchain path that you'll have to check/update.
>
> I installed all the dependencies that were available in vcpkg, and then 
> disabled whatever was left (ngspice, OCE, and python stuff)
> Then I set up that CMakeSettings and basically things work :)
>
> By the way, I pushed my patches from my earlier email, let me know if anyone 
> has an issue with the change to the CMake script.
>
> Best,
> Jon
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 6:56 PM Brian Piccioni  
> wrote:
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Despite MSVC Community being from MS, I see some advantages in using it, 
>> namely that it is basically a one-package solution: no msys2, no loads of 
>> other tools that have to be updated, etc..
>>
>>
>>
>> My lack of cmake-foo meant I hit a roadblock when trying to build an MSVC 
>> recipe. One time I got so far as to have it crap out on SSL or something 
>> like that but now I’m stuck much earlier.
>>
>>
>>
>> In any event I’m more than happy to experiment with whatever you’ve got, 
>> especially if you can provide some guidance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Jon Evans
>> Sent: November 24, 2019 12:41 PM
>> To: KiCad Developers
>> Subject: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fixes for Visual Studio / vcpkg build
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I got a build working using Visual Studio 2019 and vcpkg.
>>
>> Attached are three patches I needed to make so far.
>>
>> I'd appreciate some double-checking on these since cmake and wxwidgets can 
>> be a bit perilous.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Vesa Solonen]

Eeli Kaikkonen kirjoitti 1.12.2019 klo 0.08:

> BTW, about the possibility of changing the footprint - I have always found
> being able to change footprints in pcbnew strange because then it's out of
> sync with the schematic and it has to be changed in the schematic manually
> and updated to layout anyways. Being able to update it from the layout to
> the schematic looks like an obvious missing feature.

I would consider it a missing feature that the schematic-layout path is
anything but completely bilateral. Everything should be editable and
propagated both ways and question remains does it even make sense to
have different files. If a footprint is added or gate/pin swapped on the
PCB side the changes should show as rubber bands on the schematic, just
like it works from update PCB form schematic. Proper back annotation is
a good middle target, but having complete seamless bilateral data and
action model is way more usable albeit complex.

-Vesa

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB

[Alexander Shuklin]

Hi all,
I moved my patch at the top of kicad master again, so there shouldn't
be build problems anymore.
That's link.
https://github.com/jasuramme/kicad-source-mirror/commit/c00d66bbf943cc29aa2db3b50c6647341ca81969

> I noticed one problem. It's possible to add a footprint to PCB without 
> schematic. Some people might want to do that (e.g. mounting holes or 
> fiducials), yet back-annotate. It's not possible now.
That's good catch, I'll fix it. I think there will be an option like
"ignore footprints with no associated symbol" then.
> Annotation is changing reference designators, right? If changing values and 
> footprints is implemented it's not annotation and clearly shouldn't be in the 
> annotation dialog
Yep, in the beginning I didn't think about back-annotate footprints
and values, that's why it's in the annotation dialog. I will start
making new dialog, and if anybody against, please write in here

On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 02:36, Eeli Kaikkonen  wrote:
>
> su 1. jouluk. 2019 klo 0.27 Alexander Shuklin (jasura...@gmail.com) kirjoitti:
>>
>> Hi Eeli,
>> first of all sorry for problems with compilation.
>
>
> No need to apology. I ran "git rebase origin/master" as Jon told, it worked.
>
> With this Core 2 Duo I know how you feel about compilation time. It just 
> makes unsuccessful compilations quite annoying.
>
> Eeli Kaikkonen
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