Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Kevin Cozens]

On 2020-10-14 10:51 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
"Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including references and 
values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the simplified objects 
panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1


Perhaps it would help if the label said "All Footprint Text".

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
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| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Brian Piccioni]

I just find it unclear at the moment and thought I'd mention it.

As Jon says things will change before release so I'll wait till then.


On 2020-10-14 11:12 a.m., Ruth Ivimey-Cook wrote:


I sympathise with the issue. How about the 'hidden' state is like the 
current hidden icon but about 1/2 the current height, so almost a 
horizontal line?


Ruth


On 14/10/2020 16:05, Brian Piccioni wrote:


Perhaps eye / no eye?

The thing is, the difference between on and off is eyelashes + 
contrast. Depending on the display that can be pretty hard to 
differentiate.



On 2020-10-14 11:00 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
> FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to 
differentiate. I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.


The icons are being tweaked before release.  The problem with the 
checkboxes is that they look different on every platform and it's 
not as clear that they are visibility controls -- normally 
checkboxes are for enabling/disabling things.



On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ian McInerney 
mailto:ian.s.mciner...@ieee.org>> wrote:




On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans mailto:j...@craftyjon.com>> wrote:

"Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including
references and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry
that the simplified objects panel has made it more confusing
than it was in 5.1


This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will
still be included in the plot output if the actual text is
marked "Show" in the dialog.


Yes

We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual
override for the Values and References controls to make this
more clear...


Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text"
visibility changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but
those two can still be changed separately? (e.g. to allow
showing only the references text from footprints).


That's what I was proposing

-Jon


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Kliment (Future Bits)]

Another application I use has eye (oval outline, circular pupil, no
eyelashes) for visible and eye outline (no pupil) with crossout line
diagonally across it for not visible. Works pretty well.

On 14.10.20 17:07, Jon Evans wrote:
> (The contrast for the current icons is worse on Windows than on other
> platforms because the default Windows application color theme uses a
> darker panel background)
> 
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Jon Evans  > wrote:
> 
> Like I said, the icons (visual style and color) will be changed
> before release
> 
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:05 AM Brian Piccioni
> mailto:br...@documenteddesigns.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps eye / no eye?
> 
> The thing is, the difference between on and off is eyelashes +
> contrast. Depending on the display that can be pretty hard to
> differentiate.
> 
> 
> On 2020-10-14 11:00 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
>> > FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to
>> differentiate. I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.
>>
>> The icons are being tweaked before release.  The problem with
>> the checkboxes is that they look different on every platform
>> and it's not as clear that they are visibility controls --
>> normally checkboxes are for enabling/disabling things.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ian McInerney
>> mailto:ian.s.mciner...@ieee.org>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans
>> mailto:j...@craftyjon.com>> wrote:
>>
>> "Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text,
>> including references and values.  This isn't new
>> behavior but I worry that the simplified objects panel
>> has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1
>>
>>
>> This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It
>> will still be included in the plot output if the actual
>> text is marked "Show" in the dialog.
>>
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>  
>>
>> We could have the Footprint Text control act as a
>> visual override for the Values and References controls
>> to make this more clear...
>>
>>
>> Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint
>> Text" visibility changes the "references" and "values"
>> visibility, but those two can still be changed separately?
>> (e.g. to allow showing only the references text from
>> footprints).
>>
>>
>> That's what I was proposing
>>
>> -Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Jon Evans]

(The contrast for the current icons is worse on Windows than on other
platforms because the default Windows application color theme uses a darker
panel background)

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Jon Evans  wrote:

> Like I said, the icons (visual style and color) will be changed before
> release
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:05 AM Brian Piccioni <
> br...@documenteddesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps eye / no eye?
>>
>> The thing is, the difference between on and off is eyelashes + contrast.
>> Depending on the display that can be pretty hard to differentiate.
>>
>>
>> On 2020-10-14 11:00 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
>>
>> > FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to differentiate.
>> I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.
>>
>> The icons are being tweaked before release.  The problem with the
>> checkboxes is that they look different on every platform and it's not as
>> clear that they are visibility controls -- normally checkboxes are for
>> enabling/disabling things.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ian McInerney 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans  wrote:
>>>
 "Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including references
 and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the simplified
 objects panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1


>>> This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will still be
>>> included in the plot output if the actual text is marked "Show" in the
>>> dialog.
>>>
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>>>
 We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override for
 the Values and References controls to make this more clear...

>>>
>>> Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text"
>>> visibility changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but those two
>>> can still be changed separately? (e.g. to allow showing only the references
>>> text from footprints).
>>>
>>
>> That's what I was proposing
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Jon Evans]

Like I said, the icons (visual style and color) will be changed before
release

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:05 AM Brian Piccioni 
wrote:

> Perhaps eye / no eye?
>
> The thing is, the difference between on and off is eyelashes + contrast.
> Depending on the display that can be pretty hard to differentiate.
>
>
> On 2020-10-14 11:00 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to differentiate.
> I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.
>
> The icons are being tweaked before release.  The problem with the
> checkboxes is that they look different on every platform and it's not as
> clear that they are visibility controls -- normally checkboxes are for
> enabling/disabling things.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ian McInerney 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans  wrote:
>>
>>> "Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including references
>>> and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the simplified
>>> objects panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1
>>>
>>>
>> This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will still be
>> included in the plot output if the actual text is marked "Show" in the
>> dialog.
>>
>
> Yes
>
>
>>
>>> We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override for
>>> the Values and References controls to make this more clear...
>>>
>>
>> Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text"
>> visibility changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but those two
>> can still be changed separately? (e.g. to allow showing only the references
>> text from footprints).
>>
>
> That's what I was proposing
>
> -Jon
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Brian Piccioni]

Perhaps eye / no eye?

The thing is, the difference between on and off is eyelashes + contrast. 
Depending on the display that can be pretty hard to differentiate.



On 2020-10-14 11:00 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
> FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to 
differentiate. I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.


The icons are being tweaked before release.  The problem with the 
checkboxes is that they look different on every platform and it's not 
as clear that they are visibility controls -- normally checkboxes are 
for enabling/disabling things.



On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ian McInerney 
mailto:ian.s.mciner...@ieee.org>> wrote:




On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans mailto:j...@craftyjon.com>> wrote:

"Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including
references and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry
that the simplified objects panel has made it more confusing
than it was in 5.1


This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will
still be included in the plot output if the actual text is marked
"Show" in the dialog.


Yes

We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual
override for the Values and References controls to make this
more clear...


Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text"
visibility changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but
those two can still be changed separately? (e.g. to allow showing
only the references text from footprints).


That's what I was proposing

-Jon
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Jon Evans]

> FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to differentiate.
I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.

The icons are being tweaked before release.  The problem with the
checkboxes is that they look different on every platform and it's not as
clear that they are visibility controls -- normally checkboxes are for
enabling/disabling things.


On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM Ian McInerney 
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans  wrote:
>
>> "Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including references
>> and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the simplified
>> objects panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1
>>
>>
> This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will still be
> included in the plot output if the actual text is marked "Show" in the
> dialog.
>

Yes


>
>> We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override for the
>> Values and References controls to make this more clear...
>>
>
> Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text"
> visibility changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but those two
> can still be changed separately? (e.g. to allow showing only the references
> text from footprints).
>

That's what I was proposing

-Jon
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Brian Piccioni]

I think that would make a lot of sense from a usability perspective, or 
grey out related options (reference, value) when set.


On 2020-10-14 10:57 a.m., Ian McInerney wrote:



On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans > wrote:


"Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including
references and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that
the simplified objects panel has made it more confusing than it
was in 5.1


This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will still 
be included in the plot output if the actual text is marked "Show" in 
the dialog.


We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override
for the Values and References controls to make this more clear...


Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text" 
visibility changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but those 
two can still be changed separately? (e.g. to allow showing only the 
references text from footprints).


-Ian


On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:49 AM Brian Piccioni
mailto:br...@documenteddesigns.com>>
wrote:

I am working on a PCB with PCBNew from a couple days ago.

I can't see the references. Silkscreen is on and the little
eye is open but the references don't show up.

If I edit a reference it is on the right layer and show is
clicked.


What am I doing wrong?

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Ian McInerney]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jon Evans  wrote:

> "Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including references
> and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the simplified
> objects panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1
>
>
This only turns it off when viewing the board, correct? It will still be
included in the plot output if the actual text is marked "Show" in the
dialog.


> We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override for the
> Values and References controls to make this more clear...
>

Can we link these controls so that changing the "Footprint Text" visibility
changes the "references" and "values" visibility, but those two can still
be changed separately? (e.g. to allow showing only the references text from
footprints).

-Ian


>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:49 AM Brian Piccioni <
> br...@documenteddesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> I am working on a PCB with PCBNew from a couple days ago.
>>
>> I can't see the references. Silkscreen is on and the little eye is open
>> but the references don't show up.
>>
>> If I edit a reference it is on the right layer and show is clicked.
>>
>>
>> What am I doing wrong?
>> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Brian Piccioni]

Thanks! Sorry about that. You never know with a nightly. I am using the 
latest distributions as a product tester.


FWIW, I find the "open eye", "closed eye" a bit hard to differentiate. 
I'd prefer something like an X or check mark.




On 2020-10-14 10:51 a.m., Jon Evans wrote:
"Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including 
references and values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the 
simplified objects panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1


We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override for 
the Values and References controls to make this more clear...


On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:49 AM Brian Piccioni 
mailto:br...@documenteddesigns.com>> wrote:


I am working on a PCB with PCBNew from a couple days ago.

I can't see the references. Silkscreen is on and the little eye is
open but the references don't show up.

If I edit a reference it is on the right layer and show is clicked.


What am I doing wrong?

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Jon Evans]

"Footprint Text" off turns off all footprint text, including references and
values.  This isn't new behavior but I worry that the simplified objects
panel has made it more confusing than it was in 5.1

We could have the Footprint Text control act as a visual override for the
Values and References controls to make this more clear...

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:49 AM Brian Piccioni 
wrote:

> I am working on a PCB with PCBNew from a couple days ago.
>
> I can't see the references. Silkscreen is on and the little eye is open
> but the references don't show up.
>
> If I edit a reference it is on the right layer and show is clicked.
>
>
> What am I doing wrong?
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[Kicad-developers] Can't see references - V5.99 what am I doing wrong?

[Brian Piccioni]

I am working on a PCB with PCBNew from a couple days ago.

I can't see the references. Silkscreen is on and the little eye is open 
but the references don't show up.


If I edit a reference it is on the right layer and show is clicked.


What am I doing wrong?

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