Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-22 Thread Wayne Stambaugh 
Patch committed in r6403.  Thanks.

On 12/16/2015 9:45 AM, Simon Wells wrote:
> Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not
> time to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is
> a bit confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as
> its name as well.
> 
> The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that
> i could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from
> CANVAS_DEFAULT
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-18 Thread Lorenzo Marcantonio 
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 08:39:53PM +0100, Timofonic wrote:

> What about systems lacking 3D acceleration? Are those going to be not
> supported after total GAL tension? Are there some planning to make an
> alternative renderer with low CPU platforms and usable on slow
> hardware from embedded platforms to old desktops?

At the moment you need at least an Intel HD to work efficiently with
GAL. It needs fragment shaders.

*if* someone made a DC based GAL painter however*hint*hint*

-- 
Lorenzo Marcantonio
CZ Srl - Parma

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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-18 Thread Nick Østergaard 
I have started to tag such things missing-gal-tool on the bug tracker. Feel
free to creat new tickets with this tag when you notice tools or features
that have not been ported and should be.
Den 17/12/2015 22.42 skrev "Jean-Paul Louis" :

> Is there a place where we can find the list of features that are Legacy
> only?
> That should help to focus on porting those features to GAL / Cairo.
>
> Just my $0.02,
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL / ex AC9GH
>
> > On Dec 17, 2015, at 2:39 PM, Timofonic  wrote:
> >
> > Are there plans to make an official deadline to make KiCad GAL-only
> deadline and remove the legacy code?
> >
> > View to encourage the implementation of missing features in GAL vs
> Legacy Canvas?
> >
> > Can ir be made usable in low end platforms without crippling
> functionalities and make good use of the advantages of higher end systems?
> I imagine using KiCad on a very low power ARM/MIPS device, or even a
> phone/tablet if the UI could be adapted to make it usable.
> >
> > What about systems lacking 3D acceleration? Are those going to be not
> supported after total GAL tension? Are there some planning to make an
> alternative renderer with low CPU platforms and usable on slow hardware
> from embedded platforms to old desktops?
> >
> > On December 16, 2015 4:45:42 PM CET, "Nick Østergaard" <
> oe.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was thinking it could just be a small description in on of the blog
> > posts, alternatively an addition to one of the existing ones or just a
> > completely new one.  GAL versus default.
> >
> > 2015-12-16 16:40 GMT+01:00 Mark Roszko :
> >  That's something that should be in the documentation not website. We
> >  shouldn't be keeping documentation in two places.
> >
> >  On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Nick Østergaard 
> wrote:
> >  I think this is good, partly because I think calling it legacy canvas
> >  is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it always) and it
> >  is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side note to this,
> >  I think
> > we might need to actually describe a bit better what the
> >
> >  difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at doing such
> >  things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers could easily
> >  become confused.
> >
> >  2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells :
> >  Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not
> time
> >  to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a
> bit
> >  confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its
> name as
> >  well.
> >
> >  The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that
> i
> >  could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from
> CANVAS_DEFAULT
> >
> >
> >  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >  Post to
> > : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> >
> >  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
> >
> >  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >  Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> >  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> >  Mark
> >
> >
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> > --
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> brevedad.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-18 Thread louijp 


Thanks, Nick.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Nick Østergaard <oe.n...@gmail.com> 
Date: 2015/12/18  3:46 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: Jean-Paul Louis <lou...@yahoo.com> 
Cc: KiCad Developers <kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>, timofonic 
timofonic <timofo...@gmail.com>, Simon Wells <swel...@gmail.com>, Mark Roszko 
<mark.ros...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies. 

I have started to tag such things missing-gal-tool on the bug tracker. Feel 
free to creat new tickets with this tag when you notice tools or features that 
have not been ported and should be.
Den 17/12/2015 22.42 skrev "Jean-Paul Louis" <lou...@yahoo.com>:
Is there a place where we can find the list of features that are Legacy only?

That should help to focus on porting those features to GAL / Cairo.



Just my $0.02,

Jean-Paul

N1JPL / ex AC9GH



> On Dec 17, 2015, at 2:39 PM, Timofonic <timofo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Are there plans to make an official deadline to make KiCad GAL-only deadline 
> and remove the legacy code?

>

> View to encourage the implementation of missing features in GAL vs Legacy 
> Canvas?

>

> Can ir be made usable in low end platforms without crippling functionalities 
> and make good use of the advantages of higher end systems? I imagine using 
> KiCad on a very low power ARM/MIPS device, or even a phone/tablet if the UI 
> could be adapted to make it usable.

>

> What about systems lacking 3D acceleration? Are those going to be not 
> supported after total GAL tension? Are there some planning to make an 
> alternative renderer with low CPU platforms and usable on slow hardware from 
> embedded platforms to old desktops?

>

> On December 16, 2015 4:45:42 PM CET, "Nick Østergaard" <oe.n...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:

> I was thinking it could just be a small description in on of the blog

> posts, alternatively an addition to one of the existing ones or just a

> completely new one.  GAL versus default.

>

> 2015-12-16 16:40 GMT+01:00 Mark Roszko <mark.ros...@gmail.com>:

>  That's something that should be in the documentation not website. We

>  shouldn't be keeping documentation in two places.

>

>  On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Nick Østergaard <oe.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  I think this is good, partly because I think calling it legacy canvas

>  is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it always) and it

>  is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side note to this,

>  I think

> we might need to actually describe a bit better what the

>

>  difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at doing such

>  things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers could easily

>  become confused.

>

>  2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells <swel...@gmail.com>:

>  Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not time

>  to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a bit

>  confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its name as

>  well.

>

>  The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that i

>  could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from CANVAS_DEFAULT

>

>

>  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers

>  Post to

>     : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net

>

>  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers

>  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

>

>

>

>  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers

>  Post to     : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net

>  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers

>  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

>

>

>

>  --

>  Mark

>

>

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>

> --

> Enviado desde mi dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Por favor disculpa mi 
> brevedad.

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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-18 Thread Vesa Solonen 
17/12/15, 21:39, Timofonic kirjoitti:

> I imagine using KiCad on a very low power ARM/MIPS device, or
> even a phone/tablet if the UI could be adapted to make it usable.
> 
> What about systems lacking 3D acceleration?

If you have a look at the specs of any phone/tablet SoCs you will notice
that some form of 3D-accelerator is always available. IMO it's better to
concentrate on making OpenGL backend in GAL more flexible in regards of
OpenGL-profiles than to spend time longing after CPU-based renderes...

-Vesa


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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-17 Thread Jean-Paul Louis 
Is there a place where we can find the list of features that are Legacy only?
That should help to focus on porting those features to GAL / Cairo.

Just my $0.02,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL / ex AC9GH

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 2:39 PM, Timofonic  wrote:
> 
> Are there plans to make an official deadline to make KiCad GAL-only deadline 
> and remove the legacy code?
> 
> View to encourage the implementation of missing features in GAL vs Legacy 
> Canvas? 
> 
> Can ir be made usable in low end platforms without crippling functionalities 
> and make good use of the advantages of higher end systems? I imagine using 
> KiCad on a very low power ARM/MIPS device, or even a phone/tablet if the UI 
> could be adapted to make it usable. 
> 
> What about systems lacking 3D acceleration? Are those going to be not 
> supported after total GAL tension? Are there some planning to make an 
> alternative renderer with low CPU platforms and usable on slow hardware from 
> embedded platforms to old desktops? 
> 
> On December 16, 2015 4:45:42 PM CET, "Nick Østergaard"  
> wrote:
> I was thinking it could just be a small description in on of the blog
> posts, alternatively an addition to one of the existing ones or just a
> completely new one.  GAL versus default.
> 
> 2015-12-16 16:40 GMT+01:00 Mark Roszko :
>  That's something that should be in the documentation not website. We
>  shouldn't be keeping documentation in two places.
> 
>  On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Nick Østergaard  wrote:
>  I think this is good, partly because I think calling it legacy canvas
>  is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it always) and it
>  is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side note to this,
>  I think
> we might need to actually describe a bit better what the
> 
>  difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at doing such
>  things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers could easily
>  become confused.
> 
>  2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells :
>  Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not time
>  to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a bit
>  confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its name as
>  well.
> 
>  The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that i
>  could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from CANVAS_DEFAULT
> 
> 
>  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>  Post to
> : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> 
>  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> 
> 
> 
>  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>  Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> 
> 
> 
>  --
>  Mark
> 
> 
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> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> 
> -- 
> Enviado desde mi dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Por favor disculpa mi 
> brevedad.
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-17 Thread Wayne Stambaugh 
On 12/17/2015 2:39 PM, Timofonic wrote:
> Are there plans to make an official deadline to make KiCad GAL-only
> deadline and remove the legacy code?

No.  It will be done when it's done.  The goal is before the next stable
release but there are no guarantees.

> 
> View to encourage the implementation of missing features in GAL vs
> Legacy Canvas?
> 
> Can ir be made usable in low end platforms without crippling
> functionalities and make good use of the advantages of higher end
> systems? I imagine using KiCad on a very low power ARM/MIPS device, or
> even a phone/tablet if the UI could be adapted to make it usable.

I will not allow kicad to become all things to all people.  We do not
have the manpower to focus on every single wannabe computing platform.
We need to hit the largest user group we can.  Users computing on the
extremes will have to fend for themselves.

> 
> What about systems lacking 3D acceleration? Are those going to be not
> supported after total GAL tension? Are there some planning to make an
> alternative renderer with low CPU platforms and usable on slow hardware
> from embedded platforms to old desktops?

We have discussed porting wxDC to GAL if we cannot get acceptable
performance from the Cairo canvas on slower hardware.  I will not allow
the legacy canvas to be deprecated until one of these two solutions are
implemented.

> 
> On December 16, 2015 4:45:42 PM CET, "Nick Østergaard"
>  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking it could just be a small description in on of the blog
> posts, alternatively an addition to one of the existing ones or just a
> completely new one.  GAL versus default.
> 
> 2015-12-16 16:40 GMT+01:00 Mark Roszko :
> 
> That's something that should be in the documentation not website. We
> shouldn't be keeping documentation in two places.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Nick Østergaard
>  wrote:
> 
> I think this is good, partly because I think calling it
> legacy canvas
> is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it
> always) and it
> is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side
> note to this,
> I think we might need to actually describe a bit better what the
> difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at
> doing such
> things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers
> could easily
> become confused.
> 
> 2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells :
> 
> Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy
> Canvas" is it not time
> to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default
> canvas also is a bit
> confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one
> listed as its name as
> well.
> 
> The patch i have attached changes all references to
> Default canvas that i
> could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY
> from CANVAS_DEFAULT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Enviado desde mi dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Por favor disculpa mi
> brevedad.
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-16 Thread Nick Østergaard 
I think this is good, partly because I think calling it legacy canvas
is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it always) and it
is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side note to this,
I think we might need to actually describe a bit better what the
difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at doing such
things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers could easily
become confused.

2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells :
> Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not time
> to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a bit
> confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its name as
> well.
>
> The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that i
> could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from CANVAS_DEFAULT
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-16 Thread Simon Wells 
Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not time
to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a bit
confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its name as
well.

The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that i
could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from CANVAS_DEFAULT


legacy-canvas.patch
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-16 Thread Nick Østergaard 
I was thinking it could just be a small description in on of the blog
posts, alternatively an addition to one of the existing ones or just a
completely new one.  GAL versus default.

2015-12-16 16:40 GMT+01:00 Mark Roszko :
> That's something that should be in the documentation not website. We
> shouldn't be keeping documentation in two places.
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Nick Østergaard  wrote:
>> I think this is good, partly because I think calling it legacy canvas
>> is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it always) and it
>> is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side note to this,
>> I think we might need to actually describe a bit better what the
>> difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at doing such
>> things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers could easily
>> become confused.
>>
>> 2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells :
>>> Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not time
>>> to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a bit
>>> confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its name as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that i
>>> could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from CANVAS_DEFAULT
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
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>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> Mark

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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-16 Thread Mark Roszko 
That's something that should be in the documentation not website. We
shouldn't be keeping documentation in two places.

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Nick Østergaard  wrote:
> I think this is good, partly because I think calling it legacy canvas
> is more accurate (hence that is what I have called it always) and it
> is a stronger indicator that it is deprecated. On a side note to this,
> I think we might need to actually describe a bit better what the
> difference is on the kicad website, but I am really bad at doing such
> things so I have not done it. I guess a lot of newcomers could easily
> become confused.
>
> 2015-12-16 15:45 GMT+01:00 Simon Wells :
>> Due to the "Default Canvas" being called the "Legacy Canvas" is it not time
>> to change it in kicad. The current naming of Default canvas also is a bit
>> confusing as you would normally see the "Default" one listed as its name as
>> well.
>>
>> The patch i have attached changes all references to Default canvas that i
>> could find, and also changes the enums to CANVAS_LEGACY from CANVAS_DEFAULT
>>
>> ___
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>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
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-- 
Mark

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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-14 Thread Mark Roszko 
I assume I have to update the libcurl patch to add to the
CopyVersionInfoToClipboard mess.

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[Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-14 Thread Wayne Stambaugh 
Now that the series 4 stable release is out an we are starting to move
forward again with new development, I have two policy announcements
regarding KiCad development moving forward.

1) It will no longer be acceptable to allow new features to be added to
only the Pcbnew legacy canvas.  The acceptable options are either gal
canvas only or gal and legacy canvases.  Please keep in mind that the
goal is to eventually remove the legacy canvas once all of the editing
tools are ported to the gal canvas.

2) Now that I have begun to remove the dependency builders from the
kicad build configuration, I am making it mandatory that any new
dependency and it's version information be add to the version
information string (see EDA_BASE_FRAME::CopyVersionInfoToClipboard() in
common/basicframe.cpp).  The reason I'm making this mandatory is I
foresee the potential of more dependency library version related bugs
and asking users to figure out which version of a dependency library
they are using in a bug report is a bit unrealistic.  I'll add the
missing information for the existing dependencies (although I wont be
offended if someone can get to it before I do) when I get a chance.

At some point I will create some type of policy document and add it to
the dev docs.  Thank you for your cooperation .

Cheers,

Wayne

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Re: [Kicad-developers] New development policies.

2015-12-14 Thread Wayne Stambaugh 
On 12/14/2015 11:20 AM, Mark Roszko wrote:
> I assume I have to update the libcurl patch to add to the
> CopyVersionInfoToClipboard mess.
> 

Yes please.  CopyVersionInfoToClipboard may be a mess but it's damn
useful mess.  Before it's existence, getting worth while build and
platform information from users was a painful experience.  If you can
figure out how to make it less messy, I'm open to suggestion.  Be
careful with the wxWidgets stuff because the default information
provided by wxWidgets is incomplete.  That's why all of the wxWidgets
stringization macro ugliness is in there.

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