Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
There are two current reports that I can find requesting that the mouse combinations/modifier keys be user-configurable: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1842967 - Allow the snapping modifier key to be set https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1842337 - Allow a mouse/button pair to pan around -Ian On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 9:04 PM Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: > On 10/09/2019 20:55, Michael Kavanagh wrote: > > There is a subtle difference between Ctrl+Click and Shift+Click for > > adding items to a selection. E.g. in Windows Explorer/macOS Finder/MS > > Office: > > - Ctrl + Click: Add only the clicked item to the selection > > - Shift + Click: Add the clicked item and all the items in between > > the currently selected and clicked item. > > We are not selecting from a list of items/icons/whatever, so there's no > notion of "items in between the currently selected and clicked item". No > graphical editor I know does that. Anyway, Seth's idea of modifier key > customization should fix this for good :) > > T. > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
On 10/09/2019 20:55, Michael Kavanagh wrote: > There is a subtle difference between Ctrl+Click and Shift+Click for > adding items to a selection. E.g. in Windows Explorer/macOS Finder/MS > Office: > - Ctrl + Click: Add only the clicked item to the selection > - Shift + Click: Add the clicked item and all the items in between > the currently selected and clicked item. We are not selecting from a list of items/icons/whatever, so there's no notion of "items in between the currently selected and clicked item". No graphical editor I know does that. Anyway, Seth's idea of modifier key customization should fix this for good :) T. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
> On Sep 10, 2019, at 11:55 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski
> wrote:
>
> On 10/09/2019 20:45, Andy Peters wrote:
>>
>> Ctrl-Click on macOS defaults to right-button click, harkening back to
>> the days of the Mac’s one-button mouse (“one button oughta be enough for
>> everyone!”).
>
> Not much changed since then ("unusable keyboard oughta be enough for
> everyone - all they need is to consume our content anyway" - Macbook
> 2018 sales pitch :-)
Oh, good god, don’t get me started on the shitty keyboard on the 2017 Touch Bar
MacBook Pro on which I type this! But the Mac trackpads are still head and
shoulders above every comer.
(Truth be told, this MBP is a GREAT Kicad machine.)
-a
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
There is a subtle difference between Ctrl+Click and Shift+Click for adding items to a selection. E.g. in Windows Explorer/macOS Finder/MS Office: - Ctrl + Click: Add only the clicked item to the selection - Shift + Click: Add the clicked item and all the items in between the currently selected and clicked item. Cheers, Michael On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 19:35, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: > > On 10/09/2019 18:49, Seth Hillbrand wrote: > > One of our goals for v6 is to standardize the user interface to expected > > UX norms. There will be a number of large changes to accomplish this > > and it will modify some workflows. Moving the whole system to a > > selection-based interface (eeschema, pl editor as well as pcbnew) is > > good for long-term uptake of the system as well as making it easier to > > maintain. > > Well, Ctrl-click to highlight was added by me during early development > of the GAL, because some other tools I'm quite used to have this > shortcut and the legacy highlight tool was a bit awkward for me. > Concerning the UX norms, it's not obvious that Ctrl is the standard way > of adding/removing items from the current selection. A quick test showed > that: > - MS office selection mode (sort of standard for Windows UX), Ctrl and > Shift have the same behaviour. > - LibreOffice ignores Ctrl modifier when selecting, only Shift works > - Same in case of Corel programs. > I know these keys have different function for selection lists (i.e. the > explorer window with folder/file icons), but this is not our case. IMHO > modifier keys (Shift, Alt, Ctrl) in a CAD tool should each have > different frequently used function. > > If nobody opposes, I'll add an option in pcbnew preferences to select > between Ctrl-Click and a keyboard-only shortcut for net highlight. > > Cheers, > Tom > > > > > > -S > > > > On 2019-09-10 12:29, José Ignacio wrote: > >> That's a big change. Are you sure it is a good idea to do without > >> asking users about it? (from my part it would annoy me quite a bit if > >> i was using master). > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 8:09 AM Jeff Young wrote: > >> > >>> Ctrl-click was made consistent with Pcbnew (and platform standards) > >>> for toggle selection. > >>> > >>> ` is now hooked up to highlight net. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Jeff. > >>> > On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:30, Tomasz Wlostowski > >>> wrote: > > Hi, > > Am I missing something or did Ctrl-click to highlight a net > >>> suddenly > stopped working in pcbnew? > > Cheers, > Tom > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >> ___ > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > ___ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
On 10/09/2019 20:45, Andy Peters wrote:
>
> Ctrl-Click on macOS defaults to right-button click, harkening back to
> the days of the Mac’s one-button mouse (“one button oughta be enough for
> everyone!”).
Not much changed since then ("unusable keyboard oughta be enough for
everyone - all they need is to consume our content anyway" - Macbook
2018 sales pitch :-)
>
> -a
>
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>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
On 2019-09-10 14:35, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: On 10/09/2019 18:49, Seth Hillbrand wrote: One of our goals for v6 is to standardize the user interface to expected UX norms. There will be a number of large changes to accomplish this and it will modify some workflows. Moving the whole system to a selection-based interface (eeschema, pl editor as well as pcbnew) is good for long-term uptake of the system as well as making it easier to maintain. Well, Ctrl-click to highlight was added by me during early development of the GAL, because some other tools I'm quite used to have this shortcut and the legacy highlight tool was a bit awkward for me. Concerning the UX norms, it's not obvious that Ctrl is the standard way of adding/removing items from the current selection. A quick test showed that: - MS office selection mode (sort of standard for Windows UX), Ctrl and Shift have the same behaviour. - LibreOffice ignores Ctrl modifier when selecting, only Shift works - Same in case of Corel programs. I know these keys have different function for selection lists (i.e. the explorer window with folder/file icons), but this is not our case. IMHO modifier keys (Shift, Alt, Ctrl) in a CAD tool should each have different frequently used function. If nobody opposes, I'll add an option in pcbnew preferences to select between Ctrl-Click and a keyboard-only shortcut for net highlight. Cheers, Tom There's a bug report somewhere for allowing modifier keys to be customized for mouse actions. I suspect that this change would fit in there (probably a panel in pcbnew options?) -S ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
> On Sep 10, 2019, at 11:35 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski > wrote: > > On 10/09/2019 18:49, Seth Hillbrand wrote: >> One of our goals for v6 is to standardize the user interface to expected >> UX norms. There will be a number of large changes to accomplish this >> and it will modify some workflows. Moving the whole system to a >> selection-based interface (eeschema, pl editor as well as pcbnew) is >> good for long-term uptake of the system as well as making it easier to >> maintain. > > Well, Ctrl-click to highlight was added by me during early development > of the GAL, because some other tools I'm quite used to have this > shortcut and the legacy highlight tool was a bit awkward for me. > Concerning the UX norms, it's not obvious that Ctrl is the standard way > of adding/removing items from the current selection. A quick test showed > that: > - MS office selection mode (sort of standard for Windows UX), Ctrl and > Shift have the same behaviour. > - LibreOffice ignores Ctrl modifier when selecting, only Shift works > - Same in case of Corel programs. > I know these keys have different function for selection lists (i.e. the > explorer window with folder/file icons), but this is not our case. IMHO > modifier keys (Shift, Alt, Ctrl) in a CAD tool should each have > different frequently used function. > > If nobody opposes, I'll add an option in pcbnew preferences to select > between Ctrl-Click and a keyboard-only shortcut for net highlight. Ctrl-Click on macOS defaults to right-button click, harkening back to the days of the Mac’s one-button mouse (“one button oughta be enough for everyone!”). -a___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
On 10/09/2019 18:49, Seth Hillbrand wrote: > One of our goals for v6 is to standardize the user interface to expected > UX norms. There will be a number of large changes to accomplish this > and it will modify some workflows. Moving the whole system to a > selection-based interface (eeschema, pl editor as well as pcbnew) is > good for long-term uptake of the system as well as making it easier to > maintain. Well, Ctrl-click to highlight was added by me during early development of the GAL, because some other tools I'm quite used to have this shortcut and the legacy highlight tool was a bit awkward for me. Concerning the UX norms, it's not obvious that Ctrl is the standard way of adding/removing items from the current selection. A quick test showed that: - MS office selection mode (sort of standard for Windows UX), Ctrl and Shift have the same behaviour. - LibreOffice ignores Ctrl modifier when selecting, only Shift works - Same in case of Corel programs. I know these keys have different function for selection lists (i.e. the explorer window with folder/file icons), but this is not our case. IMHO modifier keys (Shift, Alt, Ctrl) in a CAD tool should each have different frequently used function. If nobody opposes, I'll add an option in pcbnew preferences to select between Ctrl-Click and a keyboard-only shortcut for net highlight. Cheers, Tom > > -S > > On 2019-09-10 12:29, José Ignacio wrote: >> That's a big change. Are you sure it is a good idea to do without >> asking users about it? (from my part it would annoy me quite a bit if >> i was using master). >> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 8:09 AM Jeff Young wrote: >> >>> Ctrl-click was made consistent with Pcbnew (and platform standards) >>> for toggle selection. >>> >>> ` is now hooked up to highlight net. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeff. >>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:30, Tomasz Wlostowski >>> wrote: Hi, Am I missing something or did Ctrl-click to highlight a net >>> suddenly stopped working in pcbnew? Cheers, Tom ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> ___ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> ___ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
One of our goals for v6 is to standardize the user interface to expected UX norms. There will be a number of large changes to accomplish this and it will modify some workflows. Moving the whole system to a selection-based interface (eeschema, pl editor as well as pcbnew) is good for long-term uptake of the system as well as making it easier to maintain. -S On 2019-09-10 12:29, José Ignacio wrote: That's a big change. Are you sure it is a good idea to do without asking users about it? (from my part it would annoy me quite a bit if i was using master). On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 8:09 AM Jeff Young wrote: Ctrl-click was made consistent with Pcbnew (and platform standards) for toggle selection. ` is now hooked up to highlight net. Cheers, Jeff. On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:30, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: Hi, Am I missing something or did Ctrl-click to highlight a net suddenly stopped working in pcbnew? Cheers, Tom ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
That's a big change. Are you sure it is a good idea to do without asking users about it? (from my part it would annoy me quite a bit if i was using master). On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 8:09 AM Jeff Young wrote: > Ctrl-click was made consistent with Pcbnew (and platform standards) for > toggle selection. > > ` is now hooked up to highlight net. > > Cheers, > Jeff. > > > On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:30, Tomasz Wlostowski > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Am I missing something or did Ctrl-click to highlight a net suddenly > > stopped working in pcbnew? > > > > Cheers, > > Tom > > > > ___ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] Ctrl-click to highlight in pcbnew missing?
Ctrl-click was made consistent with Pcbnew (and platform standards) for toggle selection. ` is now hooked up to highlight net. Cheers, Jeff. > On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:30, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: > > Hi, > > Am I missing something or did Ctrl-click to highlight a net suddenly > stopped working in pcbnew? > > Cheers, > Tom > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
