Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
I suppose " doing an immediate action and selecting the tool" has the best of both worlds, but off the top of my head I cant think of any other piece of mainstream software (CAD or otherwise) that does this. I think I'd lean also towards 'hotkey activates the tool' seeing as its the most common. Cheers, Michael On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 19:47, Jeff Young wrote: > Hi JP, > > > On 26 Apr 2019, at 19:12, jp charras wrote: > > > > Le 26/04/2019 à 19:21, Jeff Young a écrit : > >> I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears > the design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start > a wire or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool). > >> > >> Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’, > etc. (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?) > > > > In short: Yes. This is how the hotkeys worked, previously. > >> > >> Do we want there to be some related way to select the tools? That is, > if ‘Q’ places a no-connect then shift-Q would select the no-connect tool? > If yes, would these be separately editable, or would they simply follow > whatever the user changed the main hotkeys to? > >> > >> Or is there some other facility that’s already supposed to work for > tools? > > > > Why do you want to change the previous behavior? Is it not good? > > > > It was already changed. I don’t know when or why. > > I don’t have a problem with doing an immediate action and > selecting the tool, but that’s not how it works today. > > (Note that I don’t have a problem with the other way either. As long as > all the tools are consistent.) > > Cheers, > Jeff. > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
Hi JP, > On 26 Apr 2019, at 19:12, jp charras wrote: > > Le 26/04/2019 à 19:21, Jeff Young a écrit : >> I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears the >> design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start a >> wire or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool). >> >> Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’, etc. >> (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?) > > In short: Yes. This is how the hotkeys worked, previously. >> >> Do we want there to be some related way to select the tools? That is, if >> ‘Q’ places a no-connect then shift-Q would select the no-connect tool? If >> yes, would these be separately editable, or would they simply follow >> whatever the user changed the main hotkeys to? >> >> Or is there some other facility that’s already supposed to work for tools? > > Why do you want to change the previous behavior? Is it not good? > It was already changed. I don’t know when or why. I don’t have a problem with doing an immediate action and selecting the tool, but that’s not how it works today. (Note that I don’t have a problem with the other way either. As long as all the tools are consistent.) Cheers, Jeff. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
On 26/04/2019 13:12, jp charras wrote: > Le 26/04/2019 à 19:21, Jeff Young a écrit : >> I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears the >> design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start a >> wire or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool). >> >> Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’, etc. >> (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?) > > Why do you want to change the previous behavior? Is it not good? > Hi JP, I'm from the 'hotkey activates the tool camp' like Brian (for similar reasons). I realize hotkeys and accelerators working *simultaneously* would be difficult to have, but what about an option to select the 'start tool here'/'activate tool' hotkey behaviour globally? Cheers, Tom ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
No, and I'll be adding that feature for 6.0
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 1:14 PM Drew Van Zandt
wrote:
> On this general topic, is there a technical reason that one cannot assign
> a shortcut key for "select whole net"?
>
>
> *Drew Van Zandt*
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:13 PM jp charras wrote:
>
>> Le 26/04/2019 à 19:21, Jeff Young a écrit :
>> > I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears
>> the design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start
>> a wire or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool).
>> >
>> > Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’,
>> etc. (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?)
>>
>> In short: Yes. This is how the hotkeys worked, previously.
>> >
>> > Do we want there to be some related way to select the tools? That is,
>> if ‘Q’ places a no-connect then shift-Q would select the no-connect tool?
>> If yes, would these be separately editable, or would they simply follow
>> whatever the user changed the main hotkeys to?
>> >
>> > Or is there some other facility that’s already supposed to work for
>> tools?
>>
>> Why do you want to change the previous behavior? Is it not good?
>>
>> The reason of the behavior ('W' starts a wire and 'shift W' selects the
>> tool) is the fact we cannot (if we use the hotkey as accelerator) know
>> if a menu was clicked (in this case the mouse position is irrelevant) or
>> if a hotkey was pressed (in this case the mouse position can be used and
>> we start a wire immediately).
>> Therefore we cannot use the same key as hotkey and accelerator key.
>>
>> It is extremely hard to fix this issue because the workaround to fix it
>> are only workaround (and therefore can stop working after wxWidgets
>> changes) and each platform has its own workaround.
>>
>> For instance, if the 'W' key is used both as accelerator key and hotkey,
>> the key event is not generated on Windows (only the menu event), but is
>> generated on wxGTK.
>> I don't know what happens on OSX.
>>
>> Hotkey behavior versus accelerator key behavior is always strange.
>> And this is not only when using wxWidgets:
>> I found issues in many other applications (Using a French keyboard
>> instead of a US keyboard often shows these strange behaviors)
>>
>> Trying to fix this issue is a mined field.
>>
>> Wayne and me spent a lot of time about that without success.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>
>> ___
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
On this general topic, is there a technical reason that one cannot assign a
shortcut key for "select whole net"?
*Drew Van Zandt*
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:13 PM jp charras wrote:
> Le 26/04/2019 à 19:21, Jeff Young a écrit :
> > I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears
> the design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start
> a wire or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool).
> >
> > Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’,
> etc. (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?)
>
> In short: Yes. This is how the hotkeys worked, previously.
> >
> > Do we want there to be some related way to select the tools? That is,
> if ‘Q’ places a no-connect then shift-Q would select the no-connect tool?
> If yes, would these be separately editable, or would they simply follow
> whatever the user changed the main hotkeys to?
> >
> > Or is there some other facility that’s already supposed to work for
> tools?
>
> Why do you want to change the previous behavior? Is it not good?
>
> The reason of the behavior ('W' starts a wire and 'shift W' selects the
> tool) is the fact we cannot (if we use the hotkey as accelerator) know
> if a menu was clicked (in this case the mouse position is irrelevant) or
> if a hotkey was pressed (in this case the mouse position can be used and
> we start a wire immediately).
> Therefore we cannot use the same key as hotkey and accelerator key.
>
> It is extremely hard to fix this issue because the workaround to fix it
> are only workaround (and therefore can stop working after wxWidgets
> changes) and each platform has its own workaround.
>
> For instance, if the 'W' key is used both as accelerator key and hotkey,
> the key event is not generated on Windows (only the menu event), but is
> generated on wxGTK.
> I don't know what happens on OSX.
>
> Hotkey behavior versus accelerator key behavior is always strange.
> And this is not only when using wxWidgets:
> I found issues in many other applications (Using a French keyboard
> instead of a US keyboard often shows these strange behaviors)
>
> Trying to fix this issue is a mined field.
>
> Wayne and me spent a lot of time about that without success.
>
>
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
Le 26/04/2019 à 19:21, Jeff Young a écrit :
> I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears the
> design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start a wire
> or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool).
>
> Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’, etc.
> (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?)
In short: Yes. This is how the hotkeys worked, previously.
>
> Do we want there to be some related way to select the tools? That is, if ‘Q’
> places a no-connect then shift-Q would select the no-connect tool? If yes,
> would these be separately editable, or would they simply follow whatever the
> user changed the main hotkeys to?
>
> Or is there some other facility that’s already supposed to work for tools?
Why do you want to change the previous behavior? Is it not good?
The reason of the behavior ('W' starts a wire and 'shift W' selects the
tool) is the fact we cannot (if we use the hotkey as accelerator) know
if a menu was clicked (in this case the mouse position is irrelevant) or
if a hotkey was pressed (in this case the mouse position can be used and
we start a wire immediately).
Therefore we cannot use the same key as hotkey and accelerator key.
It is extremely hard to fix this issue because the workaround to fix it
are only workaround (and therefore can stop working after wxWidgets
changes) and each platform has its own workaround.
For instance, if the 'W' key is used both as accelerator key and hotkey,
the key event is not generated on Windows (only the menu event), but is
generated on wxGTK.
I don't know what happens on OSX.
Hotkey behavior versus accelerator key behavior is always strange.
And this is not only when using wxWidgets:
I found issues in many other applications (Using a French keyboard
instead of a US keyboard often shows these strange behaviors)
Trying to fix this issue is a mined field.
Wayne and me spent a lot of time about that without success.
--
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] HotKey user model
My $0.02: I don’t want a tool to start doing something while my eyes are possibly off the screen (looking at the keyboard to hit the right hotkey) because my mousing hand may have drifted, causing the action to be carried out in the wrong place (e.g. starting a track in the wrong spot). If most people disagree, fine, but please definitely include a hotkey action for “select tool” that doesn’t also immediately begin that tool’s action. Or perhaps make it a global user option whether a hotkey is “select tool” or “start tool action” (for lack of better wording), so us keyboard-lookers don’t have to perform manual gymnastics for every tool select. Cheers, -Brian > On Apr 26, 2019, at 1:21 PM, Jeff Young wrote: > > I’ve been talking to Wayne about the ‘W’ and ‘X’ hotkeys. It appears the > design goal is to have these be immediate actions (that is, they start a wire > or a track, rather than just selecting the wire or track tool). > > Presumably this would then also apply to ‘A’, ‘P’, ‘L’, ‘H’, ‘J’, ‘Q’, etc. > (None of these perform an immediate action today, right?) > > Do we want there to be some related way to select the tools? That is, if ‘Q’ > places a no-connect then shift-Q would select the no-connect tool? If yes, > would these be separately editable, or would they simply follow whatever the > user changed the main hotkeys to? > > Or is there some other facility that’s already supposed to work for tools? > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
