Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Seth Hillbrand]

Thanks Jon!  This is a great example.  This is pretty much what I was 
angling for in suggesting a separate preference pane.


I don't think that this is overkill.  It keeps things clearly 
disambiguated and gives a nice location to add additional potential 
mouse actions.  It also prevents users from mapping actions to the mouse 
events that can't be handled.


-Seth

On 2019-06-12 11:45, Jon Evans wrote:

In my opinion, it would be more powerful to break out the individual
settings rather than keep around "touchpad pan mode", so that everyone
can be happy.  I think this is the only solution when there are so
many different ways people could be used to coming from different
applications.

Altium's approach (maybe overkill):

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:38 AM John Beard 
wrote:


On 12/06/2019 16:28, Reece R. Pollack wrote:

Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the

mouse wheel:


Pan up/down: no modifier
Zoom in/out: Control
Pan left/right: Shift


This is exactly how it works in "touchpad pan" mode (an option in
the
preferences panel).

If you have a 2D scroll wheel (or a touchpad that emulates one,
hence
the name), you don't even need Shift for left/right.

Cheers,

John

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I like this option.  Any solution should not change the default
behavior.  Although I seriously doubt "everyone can be happy" will ever
happen, this is the most flexible and complete solution.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 6/12/19 11:45 AM, Jon Evans wrote:
> In my opinion, it would be more powerful to break out the individual
> settings rather than keep around "touchpad pan mode", so that everyone
> can be happy.  I think this is the only solution when there are so many
> different ways people could be used to coming from different applications.
> 
> Altium's approach (maybe overkill):
> image.png
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:38 AM John Beard  > wrote:
> 
> On 12/06/2019 16:28, Reece R. Pollack wrote:
> > Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the
> mouse wheel:
> >
> > Pan up/down: no modifier
> > Zoom in/out: Control
> > Pan left/right: Shift
> 
> This is exactly how it works in "touchpad pan" mode (an option in the
> preferences panel).
> 
> If you have a 2D scroll wheel (or a touchpad that emulates one, hence
> the name), you don't even need Shift for left/right.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> John
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Jeff Young]

If we’re going to allow editing of zoom, etc., then yes we’ll need a more 
expressive GUI than just the “type a new key” editor we have now.

But that would all be in Preferences.  Note that what I’m doing now is just for 
List HotKeys, not Edit HotKeys.

> On 12 Jun 2019, at 16:45, Jon Evans  wrote:
> 
> In my opinion, it would be more powerful to break out the individual settings 
> rather than keep around "touchpad pan mode", so that everyone can be happy.  
> I think this is the only solution when there are so many different ways 
> people could be used to coming from different applications.
> 
> Altium's approach (maybe overkill):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:38 AM John Beard  > wrote:
> On 12/06/2019 16:28, Reece R. Pollack wrote:
> > Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the mouse wheel:
> > 
> > Pan up/down: no modifier
> > Zoom in/out: Control
> > Pan left/right: Shift
> 
> This is exactly how it works in "touchpad pan" mode (an option in the 
> preferences panel).
> 
> If you have a 2D scroll wheel (or a touchpad that emulates one, hence 
> the name), you don't even need Shift for left/right.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> John
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[John Beard]

On 12/06/2019 16:45, Jon Evans wrote:
In my opinion, it would be more powerful to break out the individual 
settings rather than keep around "touchpad pan mode", so that everyone 
can be happy.  I think this is the only solution when there are so many 
different ways people could be used to coming from different applications.


Altium's approach (maybe overkill):


IMO this is the ideal approach to aim for.

The ACTION framework doesn't reaches the scroll/pan code yet, so it 
might need special casing in

WX_VIEW_CONTROLS::onWheel( wxMouseEvent& ) similar to how it is now.

Or maybe it can be done with the tool framework one day?

Cheers,

John

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Jeff Young]

Hi Seth,

I’m not sure how that helps. Would you try to list all the contexts in that 
panel or something?

(I’ve so far been thinking that since they’re just hints, we can ignore the 
context.)

Cheers,
Jeff.

> On 12 Jun 2019, at 16:42, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-06-12 10:33, Jeff Young wrote:
>> I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.
>> Problem is, I don’t know what they are.  So far I have:
>> Highlight Net   ctrl-left-button
>> Clear Net Highlighting  ctrl-left-button
>> Pan Up/Down shift-mouse-wheel
>> Pan Left/Right  ctrl-mouse-wheel
>> Others?
> 
> 
> Hi Jeff-
> 
> Because the gestures are so context-specific, what do you think about putting 
> them in a separate panel instead of with the hotkeys?
> 
> -S


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Jon Evans]

In my opinion, it would be more powerful to break out the individual
settings rather than keep around "touchpad pan mode", so that everyone can
be happy.  I think this is the only solution when there are so many
different ways people could be used to coming from different applications.

Altium's approach (maybe overkill):
[image: image.png]



On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:38 AM John Beard  wrote:

> On 12/06/2019 16:28, Reece R. Pollack wrote:
> > Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the mouse
> wheel:
> >
> > Pan up/down: no modifier
> > Zoom in/out: Control
> > Pan left/right: Shift
>
> This is exactly how it works in "touchpad pan" mode (an option in the
> preferences panel).
>
> If you have a 2D scroll wheel (or a touchpad that emulates one, hence
> the name), you don't even need Shift for left/right.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 2019-06-12 10:33, Jeff Young wrote:

I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.
Problem is, I don’t know what they are.  So far I have:

Highlight Net   ctrl-left-button
Clear Net Highlighting  ctrl-left-button

Pan Up/Down shift-mouse-wheel

Pan Left/Right  ctrl-mouse-wheel

Others?



Hi Jeff-

Because the gestures are so context-specific, what do you think about 
putting them in a separate panel instead of with the hotkeys?


-S

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[John Beard]

On 12/06/2019 16:28, Reece R. Pollack wrote:

Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the mouse wheel:

Pan up/down: no modifier
Zoom in/out: Control
Pan left/right: Shift


This is exactly how it works in "touchpad pan" mode (an option in the 
preferences panel).


If you have a 2D scroll wheel (or a touchpad that emulates one, hence 
the name), you don't even need Shift for left/right.


Cheers,

John

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Reece R. Pollack]

I'll accept keeping the default behavior of the unmodified scroll wheel 
because changing something like this is would be a radical shift in the 
UI. However, I think this behavior should be programmable so users have 
the option to change it easily.


The worst-case scenario is to make all three behaviors different from 
other applications AND reverse the direction of motion a la Apple.


On 6/12/19 11:32 AM, Jon Evans wrote:
Zooming with no modifier seems to be the more popular choice in the 
creative and CAD applications I have come across (and is certainly my 
preference, because I use middle-drag to pan).  Maybe someone needs to 
do the legwork to see which actually is the most common re. left-right 
vs. up-down.


-Jon

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM Reece R. Pollack > wrote:


Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the
mouse wheel:

Pan up/down: no modifier
Zoom in/out: Control
Pan left/right: Shift

With KiCad I am forever zooming when I want to pan up or down. If
we're going to retain the current behavior of zooming with no
modifier, at least make left/right consistent with other
applications rather than making all three different from
everything else.

Also bear in mind that Apple has insistently reversed the use of
the mouse wheel compared with every other OS since the mouse wheel
was introduced decades ago. I understand that they insist this is
"natural", but it's only natural for Apple users which comprise a
small subset of the user base.

-Reece

On 6/12/19 10:33 AM, Jeff Young wrote:

I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.
 Problem is, I don’t know what they are.  So far I have:

Highlight Net           ctrl-left-button
Clear Net Highlighting  ctrl-left-button
Pan Up/Down             shift-mouse-wheel
Pan Left/Right          ctrl-mouse-wheel

Others?

Thanks,
Jeff.

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Jeff Young]

I didn’t want to include stuff that’s standard (mouse wheel zooming, 
right-button context menus, etc.).  Then you also get into touchpad pinch 
gestures, etc.

How do others feel?

> On 12 Jun 2019, at 16:29, John Beard  wrote:
> 
> On 12/06/2019 15:33, Jeff Young wrote:
>> I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.
> 
> Excellent!
> 
>> Pan Up/Down shift-mouse-wheel
>> Pan Left/Right  ctrl-mouse-wheel
> 
> Do we need also zoom?
> 
> Also, these are not the same when touchpad panning
> ("Inkscape mode") is on. Then it's:
> 
> * Pan Up/Down: mouse-wheel
> * Pan L/R  Shift+wheel
> * Zoom in/out  Ctrl+wheel
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> John
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Jon Evans]

Zooming with no modifier seems to be the more popular choice in the
creative and CAD applications I have come across (and is certainly my
preference, because I use middle-drag to pan).  Maybe someone needs to do
the legwork to see which actually is the most common re. left-right vs.
up-down.

-Jon

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM Reece R. Pollack  wrote:

> Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the mouse wheel:
>
> Pan up/down: no modifier
> Zoom in/out: Control
> Pan left/right: Shift
>
> With KiCad I am forever zooming when I want to pan up or down. If we're
> going to retain the current behavior of zooming with no modifier, at least
> make left/right consistent with other applications rather than making all
> three different from everything else.
>
> Also bear in mind that Apple has insistently reversed the use of the mouse
> wheel compared with every other OS since the mouse wheel was introduced
> decades ago. I understand that they insist this is "natural", but it's only
> natural for Apple users which comprise a small subset of the user base.
>
> -Reece
>
> On 6/12/19 10:33 AM, Jeff Young wrote:
>
> I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.  Problem is,
> I don’t know what they are.  So far I have:
>
> Highlight Net   ctrl-left-button
> Clear Net Highlighting  ctrl-left-button
> Pan Up/Down shift-mouse-wheel
> Pan Left/Right  ctrl-mouse-wheel
>
> Others?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff.
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Reece R. Pollack]

On 6/12/19 11:29 AM, John Beard wrote:

On 12/06/2019 15:33, Jeff Young wrote:

I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.


Excellent!


Pan Up/Down             shift-mouse-wheel
Pan Left/Right          ctrl-mouse-wheel


Do we need also zoom?


Yes, we need zoom as a programmable hotkey so users have the option to 
change the default behavior to be consistent with other applications.


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[John Beard]

On 12/06/2019 15:33, Jeff Young wrote:

I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.


Excellent!


Pan Up/Down             shift-mouse-wheel
Pan Left/Right          ctrl-mouse-wheel


Do we need also zoom?

Also, these are not the same when touchpad panning
("Inkscape mode") is on. Then it's:

* Pan Up/Down: mouse-wheel
* Pan L/R  Shift+wheel
* Zoom in/out  Ctrl+wheel

Cheers,

John

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Kicad gestures

[Reece R. Pollack]

Most applications I've used provide these "gestures" with the mouse wheel:

Pan up/down: no modifier
Zoom in/out: Control
Pan left/right: Shift

With KiCad I am forever zooming when I want to pan up or down. If we're 
going to retain the current behavior of zooming with no modifier, at 
least make left/right consistent with other applications rather than 
making all three different from everything else.


Also bear in mind that Apple has insistently reversed the use of the 
mouse wheel compared with every other OS since the mouse wheel was 
introduced decades ago. I understand that they insist this is "natural", 
but it's only natural for Apple users which comprise a small subset of 
the user base.


-Reece

On 6/12/19 10:33 AM, Jeff Young wrote:
I’m putting the kicad gestures into the List HotKeys dialog.  Problem 
is, I don’t know what they are.  So far I have:


Highlight Net           ctrl-left-button
Clear Net Highlighting  ctrl-left-button
Pan Up/Down             shift-mouse-wheel
Pan Left/Right          ctrl-mouse-wheel

Others?

Thanks,
Jeff.

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