Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-17 Thread Fabrizio Tappero
Dear Ruth,
your feedback is really useful. Especially because it focuses on
inconsistencies across different tools. I would like to propose to you to:
1) use the list of problems you made to present a list of solutions where
the problem is quickly mentioned. In this way others on this mailing list
can comment.
2) work on fixing these problems. I can help you there.

let me know if you could be interested in putting the time.

cheers
Fabrizio


On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Ruth Ivimey-Cook  wrote:

> Fabrizio,
>
> Thanks for your encouragement. May I return it in saying I have
> appreciated your existing efforts to improve things :-) I am currently
> using a nightly kicad: 2017-04-07 70c961f on Mac: apologies if I'm treading
> old ground on some things but the Mac build dropped out for a while.
> PcbNew:
>
> 1. The "Remove" I mentioned is in the OpenGL context menu in pcbnew
> between Flip and Move exactly. IMO should be "Delete".
>
> 2. The hidden item: I was looking for the 'update all filled zones'
> command, to renew them all following some component moves. I eventually
> found that click on edge of the zone the Zones submenu has Fill All and
> Unfill All, which seem to do the trick though I don't know whether that is
> really correct.
>
> 3. While looking at the Zones menu it has the text 'merge zones', which
> seems interesting, but then the items present appear to be about adding
> more zones (duplicate, add) rather than merge... Was there a merge (union)
> zone somewhere?
>
> 4. I also spent ages looking for the setting to change the clearance
> between tracks and zones; for some reason I did not expect it to be in the
> zones settings, but in the track settings (I thought Clearance in the Zone
> Properties was about clearance to edge-of-board et al). In the same area,
> it is not clear to me what 'Antipad clearance' means...
>
> 5. The "Exchange footprints" context menu opens the "Change Footprint"
> dialog.
>
> 6. On the change footprint dialog, you have an Apply and Cancel button; as
> expected Apply leaves the dialog open, but it is semi-modal; you cannot
> select an alternate component to change, and it seems unlikely that having
> changed once you expect to need to change it again immediately after. Can
> we change "Apply" to a dismissing "OK" button?
>
> 7. The "Select Layer Pair" menu item opens the "Select Copper Layer Pair"
> dialog.
>
> 8. Not quite in the same vein, but could the Select Copper Layer Pair be
> embedded in the main menu, as the normal Layers panel is? I would prefer it
> was always open at the side.
> CvPcb:
>
> As a new user, I found "CvPcb" to be a very confusing name and it took a
> long time to understand how it fitted in the workflow -- aided mostly by
> forum posts. I would suggest a name change to "Footprint association
> editor" or similar.
>
> 1. The 'settings' wheel on the toolbar has a tooltip "Edit footprint
> library table" while the equivalent menu item has "Configure Libraries" and
> the dialog itself it "PCB Library Tables". Two different icons are used.
>
> 2. View selected footprint is not on the menu, and could be, as could
> perform automatic... and delete all... actions.
>
> 3. Menu item "Edit footprint association file" could perhaps be added as a
> toolbar item, and/or reworked: does it not make sense to "load" or "save"
> such files? Could there be text or a link to help describing what "equ"
> files are?
> Footprint Editor:
>
> This is of course very similar in some ways to Pcbnew, so why are the
> tools available so different?
>
> 1. Both interfaces have an anchor/origin tool but use different
> terminology and different icons for it.
>
> 2. Maybe there are good internal reasons but I see no user reason not to
> include the dimension and filled zone tools for footprints.
>
> 3. Both interfaces have line/polygon tools but use different icons.
>
> 4. It would be great to be able to import one footprint into another using
> the footprint tool, even if it was a copy not link operation.
>
> 5. The Show/hide layers manager option is missing in the FP editor.
>
> 6. FP editor "Show edges sketch" and "Show Text sketch" don't appear to do
> anything for me. The name would suggest though that the 'Show pads in
> outline mode' (etc) actions / terminology should be preferred.
>
> Finally the toolbar containing the grid, zoom controls on the FP editor is
> shorter than the equivalent in pcbnew.
> Parts library editor:
>
> 1. The tooltip for browsing the library uses the text "Library Browser -
> Browse Components" while the equivalent for Footprint uses the (clearer, In
> My Opinion) "Open footprint viewer".
>
> 2. The tooltips for selecting the current library have "Select active
> library" or "Select working library". I would prefer "working" but would
> prefer consistency more!
>
> 3. The Save option uses tooltips "Save footprint in active library" and
> "Save current library to disk", which confuses me. It may be that different
> 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Kevin Cozens

On 2017-06-16 11:53 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:

hum.. you mean Drag should not be "G" but "D"?

[snip]
On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Kevin Cozens > wrote: The drag operation is more likely going 
to see use over Duplicate so it makes sense to keep its shortcut as the 
single key shortcut of D.


I mistyped as I meant to reference the shortcut for "Drag Track Keep Slope" 
that someone else had mentioned.


As suggested earlier, consistency in shortcuts across all programs (as much 
as possible) would be a good thing.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Ruth Ivimey-Cook

Fabrizio,

Thanks for your encouragement. May I return it in saying I have 
appreciated your existing efforts to improve things :-) I am currently 
using a nightly kicad: 2017-04-07 70c961f on Mac: apologies if I'm 
treading old ground on some things but the Mac build dropped out for a 
while.



 PcbNew:

1. The "Remove" I mentioned is in the OpenGL context menu in pcbnew 
between Flip and Move exactly. IMO should be "Delete".


2. The hidden item: I was looking for the 'update all filled zones' 
command, to renew them all following some component moves. I eventually 
found that click on edge of the zone the Zones submenu has Fill All and 
Unfill All, which seem to do the trick though I don't know whether that 
is really correct.


3. While looking at the Zones menu it has the text 'merge zones', which 
seems interesting, but then the items present appear to be about adding 
more zones (duplicate, add) rather than merge... Was there a merge 
(union) zone somewhere?


4. I also spent ages looking for the setting to change the clearance 
between tracks and zones; for some reason I did not expect it to be in 
the zones settings, but in the track settings (I thought Clearance in 
the Zone Properties was about clearance to edge-of-board et al). In the 
same area, it is not clear to me what 'Antipad clearance' means...


5. The "Exchange footprints" context menu opens the "Change Footprint" 
dialog.


6. On the change footprint dialog, you have an Apply and Cancel button; 
as expected Apply leaves the dialog open, but it is semi-modal; you 
cannot select an alternate component to change, and it seems unlikely 
that having changed once you expect to need to change it again 
immediately after. Can we change "Apply" to a dismissing "OK" button?


7. The "Select Layer Pair" menu item opens the "Select Copper Layer 
Pair" dialog.


8. Not quite in the same vein, but could the Select Copper Layer Pair be 
embedded in the main menu, as the normal Layers panel is? I would prefer 
it was always open at the side.



 CvPcb:

As a new user, I found "CvPcb" to be a very confusing name and it took a 
long time to understand how it fitted in the workflow -- aided mostly by 
forum posts. I would suggest a name change to "Footprint association 
editor" or similar.


1. The 'settings' wheel on the toolbar has a tooltip "Edit footprint 
library table" while the equivalent menu item has "Configure Libraries" 
and the dialog itself it "PCB Library Tables". Two different icons are used.


2. View selected footprint is not on the menu, and could be, as could 
perform automatic... and delete all... actions.


3. Menu item "Edit footprint association file" could perhaps be added as 
a toolbar item, and/or reworked: does it not make sense to "load" or 
"save" such files? Could there be text or a link to help describing what 
"equ" files are?



 Footprint Editor:

This is of course very similar in some ways to Pcbnew, so why are the 
tools available so different?


1. Both interfaces have an anchor/origin tool but use different 
terminology and different icons for it.


2. Maybe there are good internal reasons but I see no user reason not to 
include the dimension and filled zone tools for footprints.


3. Both interfaces have line/polygon tools but use different icons.

4. It would be great to be able to import one footprint into another 
using the footprint tool, even if it was a copy not link operation.


5. The Show/hide layers manager option is missing in the FP editor.

6. FP editor "Show edges sketch" and "Show Text sketch" don't appear to 
do anything for me. The name would suggest though that the 'Show pads in 
outline mode' (etc) actions / terminology should be preferred.


Finally the toolbar containing the grid, zoom controls on the FP editor 
is shorter than the equivalent in pcbnew.



 Parts library editor:

1. The tooltip for browsing the library uses the text "Library Browser - 
Browse Components" while the equivalent for Footprint uses the (clearer, 
In My Opinion) "Open footprint viewer".


2. The tooltips for selecting the current library have "Select active 
library" or "Select working library". I would prefer "working" but would 
prefer consistency more!


3. The Save option uses tooltips "Save footprint in active library" and 
"Save current library to disk", which confuses me. It may be that 
different things are happening underneath, but the user doesn't 
(shouldn't need to... ) know.


4. "Delete component from current library" -- neither "active" nor 
"working"...



...

I think that's enough for the moment (?!!), and I hope this is useful.


Regards,
Ruth


On 16/06/2017 16:51, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:

Hi Ruth,
thanks for your feedack. I put quite some energy in trying to fix UI 
problems. I just need a little bit more time... ;-)


It would be great if your could provide clear suggestions about those 
hidden functionalities.


cheers
Fabrizio

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Wayne Stambaugh
Drag is already 'G' in both Eeschema and Pcbnew.  Drag segments and keep
slope is 'D' in Pcbnew.  There is no drag segments and keep slope in
Eeschema.

On 6/16/2017 11:53 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> hum.. you mean Drag should not be "G" but "D"?
> 
> cheers
> Fabrizio
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Kevin Cozens  > wrote:
> 
> On 2017-06-16 09:18 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> 
> how about we actually make "D" the shortcut for duplicate in
> both eescheama and pcbnew.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> does anybody has anything against it?
> 
> 
> Duplicate is sort of related to Copy and Paste so it makes sense (to
> me) to have the shortcut as Ctrl-D. The drag operation is more
> likely going to see use over Duplicate so it makes sense to keep its
> shortcut as the single key shortcut of D.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers!
> 
> Kevin.
> 
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that
> distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's
> why we're
> | powerful!"
> #include  | --Chris Hardwick
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Fabrizio Tappero
Hi Ruth,
thanks for your feedack. I put quite some energy in trying to fix UI
problems. I just need a little bit more time... ;-)

It would be great if your could provide clear suggestions about those
hidden functionalities.

cheers
Fabrizio

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM,  wrote:

>
> One of my earliest impressions of KiCad as a new user was confusion over
> UI inconsistency: terminology, menu layouts, and shortcuts in particular.
> For common actions there should be a common trigger (key, click) with a
> common indication (icon, tooltip words etc). As an example I noticed again
> yesterday in pcbnew, mostly you 'delete' an element, except when you
> 'remove' it!
>
> Personally, I find Command-D very handy as a duplicate action; I would be
> happy to see that used whenever it made sense. However, the best option
> would be to build in a keymap editor (surely there are components for
> this!) so we don't need a one-size-fits-all solution.
>
> While on the topic, it would be really good to include more actions on the
> main menu: there are many things hidden in context menus that don't need to
> be.
>
> Ruth
>
>
> On 2017-06-16 14:54, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>
>> Please do not use 'D'.  Use Ctrl+D for duplicate.  You should check the
>> Eeschema and Pcbnew hot key lists to make sure Ctrl+D is not already in
>> use.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Wayne Stambaugh
Please do not use 'D'.  Use Ctrl+D for duplicate.  You should check the
Eeschema and Pcbnew hot key lists to make sure Ctrl+D is not already in use.

On 6/16/2017 9:43 AM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> No, please don't make only for duplicate. That feels unnatural when
> ctrl+d is used in other apps for duplicating.
> 
> On 16 Jun 2017 3:18 pm, "Fabrizio Tappero"  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Nick,
> how about we actually make "D" the shortcut for duplicate in both
> eescheama and pcbnew. I notice that in pcbnew the "D" shortcut is
> taken by "Drag Track Keep Slope" which I do not know what it means.
> 
> does anybody has anything against it?
> 
> JP, you are the one who knows more about shortcuts
> 
> Cheers
> Fabrizio
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Nick Østergaard  > wrote:
> 
> I think the duplicate hotkey should be ctrl+d, as it is in pcbnew.
> 
> 2017-06-15 14:33 GMT+02:00 Wayne Stambaugh  >:
> > On 6/15/2017 6:02 AM, Simon Richter wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 15.06.2017 10:17, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> >>
> >>> Inline image 1
> >>> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into
> "Duplicate
> >>> Block" and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make
> sense? the
> >>> shortcut D seems available but better ask first?
> >>
> >> Yes please.
> >>
> >> Also, "Save Block" should be named "Copy", because it is the
> action that
> >> stores the block in the clipboard so it can be pasted using
> the Paste
> >> tool. It already has the correct shortcut.
> >>
> >>Simon
> >>
> >
> > This all makes sense to me.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Nick Østergaard
No, please don't make only for duplicate. That feels unnatural when ctrl+d
is used in other apps for duplicating.

On 16 Jun 2017 3:18 pm, "Fabrizio Tappero" 
wrote:

> Hi Nick,
> how about we actually make "D" the shortcut for duplicate in both
> eescheama and pcbnew. I notice that in pcbnew the "D" shortcut is taken by
> "Drag Track Keep Slope" which I do not know what it means.
>
> does anybody has anything against it?
>
> JP, you are the one who knows more about shortcuts
>
> Cheers
> Fabrizio
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Nick Østergaard 
> wrote:
>
>> I think the duplicate hotkey should be ctrl+d, as it is in pcbnew.
>>
>> 2017-06-15 14:33 GMT+02:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
>> > On 6/15/2017 6:02 AM, Simon Richter wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> On 15.06.2017 10:17, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Inline image 1
>> >>> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into "Duplicate
>> >>> Block" and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make sense? the
>> >>> shortcut D seems available but better ask first?
>> >>
>> >> Yes please.
>> >>
>> >> Also, "Save Block" should be named "Copy", because it is the action
>> that
>> >> stores the block in the clipboard so it can be pasted using the Paste
>> >> tool. It already has the correct shortcut.
>> >>
>> >>Simon
>> >>
>> >
>> > This all makes sense to me.
>> >
>> > Wayne
>> >
>> > ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-16 Thread Fabrizio Tappero
Hi Nick,
how about we actually make "D" the shortcut for duplicate in both eescheama
and pcbnew. I notice that in pcbnew the "D" shortcut is taken by "Drag
Track Keep Slope" which I do not know what it means.

does anybody has anything against it?

JP, you are the one who knows more about shortcuts

Cheers
Fabrizio


On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Nick Østergaard  wrote:

> I think the duplicate hotkey should be ctrl+d, as it is in pcbnew.
>
> 2017-06-15 14:33 GMT+02:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
> > On 6/15/2017 6:02 AM, Simon Richter wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 15.06.2017 10:17, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> >>
> >>> Inline image 1
> >>> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into "Duplicate
> >>> Block" and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make sense? the
> >>> shortcut D seems available but better ask first?
> >>
> >> Yes please.
> >>
> >> Also, "Save Block" should be named "Copy", because it is the action that
> >> stores the block in the clipboard so it can be pasted using the Paste
> >> tool. It already has the correct shortcut.
> >>
> >>Simon
> >>
> >
> > This all makes sense to me.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-15 Thread Nick Østergaard
I think the duplicate hotkey should be ctrl+d, as it is in pcbnew.

2017-06-15 14:33 GMT+02:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
> On 6/15/2017 6:02 AM, Simon Richter wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 15.06.2017 10:17, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
>>
>>> Inline image 1
>>> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into "Duplicate
>>> Block" and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make sense? the
>>> shortcut D seems available but better ask first?
>>
>> Yes please.
>>
>> Also, "Save Block" should be named "Copy", because it is the action that
>> stores the block in the clipboard so it can be pasted using the Paste
>> tool. It already has the correct shortcut.
>>
>>Simon
>>
>
> This all makes sense to me.
>
> Wayne
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-15 Thread Wayne Stambaugh
On 6/15/2017 6:02 AM, Simon Richter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 15.06.2017 10:17, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> 
>> Inline image 1
>> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into "Duplicate
>> Block" and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make sense? the
>> shortcut D seems available but better ask first?
> 
> Yes please.
> 
> Also, "Save Block" should be named "Copy", because it is the action that
> stores the block in the clipboard so it can be pasted using the Paste
> tool. It already has the correct shortcut.
> 
>Simon
> 

This all makes sense to me.

Wayne

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-15 Thread Simon Richter
Hi,

On 15.06.2017 10:17, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:

> Inline image 1
> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into "Duplicate
> Block" and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make sense? the
> shortcut D seems available but better ask first?

Yes please.

Also, "Save Block" should be named "Copy", because it is the action that
stores the block in the clipboard so it can be pasted using the Paste
tool. It already has the correct shortcut.

   Simon



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Re: [Kicad-developers] Proposal to change "Copy" to "Duplicate"

2017-06-15 Thread Marco Ciampa
On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 10:17:54AM +0200, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> hello,
> inside the schematic editor, this is the right click menu when a group of
> component is selected
> 
> [image: Inline image 1]
> I would like to propose to rename the "Copy Block" into "Duplicate Block"
> and add to it the shortcut D. Possible? does it make sense? the shortcut D
> seems available but better ask first?
> 
> Also, again in the schematic editor, this is the right click menu when
> hovering on one component.
> 
> [image: Inline image 2]
> 
> here again I'd like to propose to rename "Copy" with "Duplicate" and change
> its shortcut to D.
> 
> As many, I constantly use these right click menus and I am trying to make
> them better.

+1 for Duplicate

copy is a more common term for copy+paste clipboard function nowadays...

-- 


Marco Ciampa

I know a joke about UDP, but you might not get it.



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