Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

In addition to the issues described earlier, I filed a bug in parallel
about kicad freezing after closing pcbnew where fpinfo-cache writing to
network locations would take 10s (not a network speed issue).
https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1838209

Global cache should not be written everytime pcbnew is closed to project
folder.

Every time I open pcbnew from kicad main app, and then immediately close
pcbnew, I have to wait 10 secs for the main app to respond while it's
writing the fp-info-cache.

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:20 AM Seth Hillbrand  wrote:

> On 2019-07-24 13:58, Andy Peters wrote:
> >> On Jul 23, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Kevin,
> >>
> >> No this is just a cache of footprint library properties so that we can
> >> index and search footprints without loading them all into memory.
> >> It’s entirely for performance.
> >
> > User question:
> >
> > Should the project-level cache file be included in the SCC
> > respository, or is it rebuilt as necessary?
>
> Currently the cache file holds both project and global libraries.  Thus
> it leaks your system setup information and should be in your .gitignore
> file for the project.  It is rebuilt when missing.
>
> -S
>
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-- 
Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
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Live Long and Prosper,
Andrey
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 2019-07-24 13:58, Andy Peters wrote:

On Jul 23, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:

Hi Kevin,

No this is just a cache of footprint library properties so that we can 
index and search footprints without loading them all into memory.  
It’s entirely for performance.


User question:

Should the project-level cache file be included in the SCC
respository, or is it rebuilt as necessary?


Currently the cache file holds both project and global libraries.  Thus 
it leaks your system setup information and should be in your .gitignore 
file for the project.  It is rebuilt when missing.


-S

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Andy Peters]

> On Jul 23, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> No this is just a cache of footprint library properties so that we can index 
> and search footprints without loading them all into memory.  It’s entirely 
> for performance.

User question:

Should the project-level cache file be included in the SCC respository, or is 
it rebuilt as necessary?

Thanks.

-a
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Jeff Young]

Hi Kevin,

No this is just a cache of footprint library properties so that we can index 
and search footprints without loading them all into memory.  It’s entirely for 
performance.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 23 Jul 2019, at 15:35, Kevin Cozens  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-07-23 11:47 a.m., Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>> Could we write the global cache in the user's config directory next to where 
>> we write fp-lib-table?
>> If we cache global, we might not need project-based caching.
> 
> I'm not clear whether you are talking about caches of what items are 
> available or a cache of what items are being used. If it is for what items 
> are being used in a project then don't get rid of the local cache. Items used 
> in a project may be in a global library but global libraries may change. I 
> don't want changes in global libraries affecting the version of items I'm 
> using in an existing project.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers!
> 
> Kevin.
> 
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
> https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
>| that's why we're powerful"
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
> #include  | --Chris Hardwick
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Kevin Cozens]

On 2019-07-23 11:47 a.m., Seth Hillbrand wrote:
Could we write the global cache in the user's config directory next to where 
we write fp-lib-table?


If we cache global, we might not need project-based caching.


I'm not clear whether you are talking about caches of what items are 
available or a cache of what items are being used. If it is for what items 
are being used in a project then don't get rid of the local cache. Items 
used in a project may be in a global library but global libraries may 
change. I don't want changes in global libraries affecting the version of 
items I'm using in an existing project.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Wayne Stambaugh]

On 7/23/19 2:28 PM, jp charras wrote:
> Le 23/07/2019 à 20:09, Seth Hillbrand a écrit :
>> On 2019-07-23 13:38, jp charras wrote:
>>> Le 23/07/2019 à 19:22, Jeff Young a écrit :
 Hi Seth,

 I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t
 enough project libs to require a cache for them.
>>>
>>> I am not sure to understand.
>>>
>>> The cache is by lib table, or by library file?
>>> This is very different: if it is by lib table, I am thinking lib table
>>> projects require a cache.
>>
>> The cache uses the combined global + project lib tables right now and
>> stores in the project directory.  I am proposing making the cache only
>> for the global lib table and store it next to the global library table
>> and not cache the project library files at all.
>>
>> Alternatively, we could merge the cache and the table files.  Global
>> library table file gets the global cache, project library table file
>> gets the project-specific cache.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> -Seth
>>
> 
> Yes: why tho remove the project-specific libs cache?
> 2 separate caches for global libs and project is a good idea.
> 
> The best is to have a cache for global libs and a project cache for libs
> not in global table.
> 
> Ideally, global libs could be only really a few libs like power and
> device (for eeschema) or resistors, capacitors and a few other for
> footprints
> 
> Therefore, local lib tables could have more libs than the global table.
> 
> The alternate way is for me the way to go.
> 

Please don't assume that the bulk of the users footprints will be
defined in the global table.  That is only the default configuration.
Given that this is completely up to the user, I think having a separate
global and project fp-info-cache is advisable to avoid getting another
bug report about footprint library load times.

Cheers,

Wayne

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Jeff Young]

And come to think of it, there is Murphy’s Law:

The best way to ensure that someone out there has hundreds of local libs is to 
get rid of the local-lib-cache.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 23 Jul 2019, at 12:28, jp charras  wrote:
> 
> Le 23/07/2019 à 20:09, Seth Hillbrand a écrit :
>> On 2019-07-23 13:38, jp charras wrote:
>>> Le 23/07/2019 à 19:22, Jeff Young a écrit :
 Hi Seth,
 
 I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t
 enough project libs to require a cache for them.
>>> 
>>> I am not sure to understand.
>>> 
>>> The cache is by lib table, or by library file?
>>> This is very different: if it is by lib table, I am thinking lib table
>>> projects require a cache.
>> 
>> The cache uses the combined global + project lib tables right now and
>> stores in the project directory.  I am proposing making the cache only
>> for the global lib table and store it next to the global library table
>> and not cache the project library files at all.
>> 
>> Alternatively, we could merge the cache and the table files.  Global
>> library table file gets the global cache, project library table file
>> gets the project-specific cache.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> -Seth
>> 
> 
> Yes: why tho remove the project-specific libs cache?
> 2 separate caches for global libs and project is a good idea.
> 
> The best is to have a cache for global libs and a project cache for libs
> not in global table.
> 
> Ideally, global libs could be only really a few libs like power and
> device (for eeschema) or resistors, capacitors and a few other for
> footprints
> 
> Therefore, local lib tables could have more libs than the global table.
> 
> The alternate way is for me the way to go.
> 
> -- 
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[jp charras]

Le 23/07/2019 à 20:09, Seth Hillbrand a écrit :
> On 2019-07-23 13:38, jp charras wrote:
>> Le 23/07/2019 à 19:22, Jeff Young a écrit :
>>> Hi Seth,
>>>
>>> I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t
>>> enough project libs to require a cache for them.
>>
>> I am not sure to understand.
>>
>> The cache is by lib table, or by library file?
>> This is very different: if it is by lib table, I am thinking lib table
>> projects require a cache.
> 
> The cache uses the combined global + project lib tables right now and
> stores in the project directory.  I am proposing making the cache only
> for the global lib table and store it next to the global library table
> and not cache the project library files at all.
> 
> Alternatively, we could merge the cache and the table files.  Global
> library table file gets the global cache, project library table file
> gets the project-specific cache.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> -Seth
> 

Yes: why tho remove the project-specific libs cache?
2 separate caches for global libs and project is a good idea.

The best is to have a cache for global libs and a project cache for libs
not in global table.

Ideally, global libs could be only really a few libs like power and
device (for eeschema) or resistors, capacitors and a few other for
footprints

Therefore, local lib tables could have more libs than the global table.

The alternate way is for me the way to go.

-- 
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 2019-07-23 13:38, jp charras wrote:

Le 23/07/2019 à 19:22, Jeff Young a écrit :

Hi Seth,

I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t 
enough project libs to require a cache for them.


I am not sure to understand.

The cache is by lib table, or by library file?
This is very different: if it is by lib table, I am thinking lib table
projects require a cache.


The cache uses the combined global + project lib tables right now and 
stores in the project directory.  I am proposing making the cache only 
for the global lib table and store it next to the global library table 
and not cache the project library files at all.


Alternatively, we could merge the cache and the table files.  Global 
library table file gets the global cache, project library table file 
gets the project-specific cache.


Thoughts?

-Seth

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[jp charras]

Le 23/07/2019 à 19:22, Jeff Young a écrit :
> Hi Seth,
> 
> I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t enough 
> project libs to require a cache for them.

I am not sure to understand.

The cache is by lib table, or by library file?
This is very different: if it is by lib table, I am thinking lib table
projects require a cache.

> 
> I’m knee-deep in the router right now, though, so someone else would have to 
> do it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
> 



-- 
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Seth Hillbrand]

No worries, I got this one.

-S

On 2019-07-23 13:22, Jeff Young wrote:

Hi Seth,

I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t
enough project libs to require a cache for them.

I’m knee-deep in the router right now, though, so someone else would
have to do it.

Cheers,
Jeff.



On 23 Jul 2019, at 09:47, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:

Could we write the global cache in the user's config directory next to 
where we write fp-lib-table?


If we cache global, we might not need project-based caching.

-Seth

On 2019-07-23 11:39, Jeff Young wrote:

Hi Rene,
Separate global and local caches would certainly be a refinement.
It’s not free, though, as platforms differ on where an appropriate
place to write a global cache is.  And the code has to be able to
combine the two (that might be easy or it might not — it’s been too
long since I’ve been in that area to remember).
Cheers,
Jeff.

On 23 Jul 2019, at 09:33, Rene Pöschl  wrote:
Is there a reason why this file is even part of the project 
directory? I kind of assume it holds the info of all footprints. (If 
i am misinformed about that then ignore my inquiry.) Meaning for 
most users will most likely be mostly system libs that can easily 
change while one does not work on the project for a longer time. 
Might it be better to have a global cache for the global libs and a 
local one for the local ones?

On 23/07/19 01:03, Seth Hillbrand wrote:

Hi Folks,
Odd question here but why do we have fp-info-cache?  Was there a 
bug

report for these or just speed improvements?
On my system, it is the difference between 1 second vs. 3 seconds 
during

the first footprint list load (full standard + personal libraries).
Does it make a bigger difference on other systems?  I assume so but 
I

was wondering if we have some data here?
I'd like to make storing it an option.  I've been working on 
templates
recently and keep needing to delete the extra files from the 
directory

(caches should not be valid for templates).
Thanks-
Seth
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Jeff Young]

Hi Seth,

I think that would work.  And you’re right — there probably aren’t enough 
project libs to require a cache for them.

I’m knee-deep in the router right now, though, so someone else would have to do 
it.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 23 Jul 2019, at 09:47, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
> 
> Could we write the global cache in the user's config directory next to where 
> we write fp-lib-table?
> 
> If we cache global, we might not need project-based caching.
> 
> -Seth
> 
> On 2019-07-23 11:39, Jeff Young wrote:
>> Hi Rene,
>> Separate global and local caches would certainly be a refinement.
>> It’s not free, though, as platforms differ on where an appropriate
>> place to write a global cache is.  And the code has to be able to
>> combine the two (that might be easy or it might not — it’s been too
>> long since I’ve been in that area to remember).
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff.
>>> On 23 Jul 2019, at 09:33, Rene Pöschl  wrote:
>>> Is there a reason why this file is even part of the project directory? I 
>>> kind of assume it holds the info of all footprints. (If i am misinformed 
>>> about that then ignore my inquiry.) Meaning for most users will most likely 
>>> be mostly system libs that can easily change while one does not work on the 
>>> project for a longer time. Might it be better to have a global cache for 
>>> the global libs and a local one for the local ones?
>>> On 23/07/19 01:03, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
 Hi Folks,
 Odd question here but why do we have fp-info-cache?  Was there a bug
 report for these or just speed improvements?
 On my system, it is the difference between 1 second vs. 3 seconds during
 the first footprint list load (full standard + personal libraries).
 Does it make a bigger difference on other systems?  I assume so but I
 was wondering if we have some data here?
 I'd like to make storing it an option.  I've been working on templates
 recently and keep needing to delete the extra files from the directory
 (caches should not be valid for templates).
 Thanks-
 Seth
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Seth Hillbrand]

Could we write the global cache in the user's config directory next to 
where we write fp-lib-table?


If we cache global, we might not need project-based caching.

-Seth

On 2019-07-23 11:39, Jeff Young wrote:

Hi Rene,

Separate global and local caches would certainly be a refinement.

It’s not free, though, as platforms differ on where an appropriate
place to write a global cache is.  And the code has to be able to
combine the two (that might be easy or it might not — it’s been too
long since I’ve been in that area to remember).

Cheers,
Jeff.



On 23 Jul 2019, at 09:33, Rene Pöschl  wrote:

Is there a reason why this file is even part of the project directory? 
I kind of assume it holds the info of all footprints. (If i am 
misinformed about that then ignore my inquiry.) Meaning for most users 
will most likely be mostly system libs that can easily change while 
one does not work on the project for a longer time. Might it be better 
to have a global cache for the global libs and a local one for the 
local ones?


On 23/07/19 01:03, Seth Hillbrand wrote:

Hi Folks,

Odd question here but why do we have fp-info-cache?  Was there a bug
report for these or just speed improvements?

On my system, it is the difference between 1 second vs. 3 seconds 
during

the first footprint list load (full standard + personal libraries).
Does it make a bigger difference on other systems?  I assume so but I
was wondering if we have some data here?

I'd like to make storing it an option.  I've been working on 
templates
recently and keep needing to delete the extra files from the 
directory

(caches should not be valid for templates).

Thanks-
Seth

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Jeff Young]

Hi Rene,

Separate global and local caches would certainly be a refinement.

It’s not free, though, as platforms differ on where an appropriate place to 
write a global cache is.  And the code has to be able to combine the two (that 
might be easy or it might not — it’s been too long since I’ve been in that area 
to remember).

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 23 Jul 2019, at 09:33, Rene Pöschl  wrote:
> 
> Is there a reason why this file is even part of the project directory? I kind 
> of assume it holds the info of all footprints. (If i am misinformed about 
> that then ignore my inquiry.) Meaning for most users will most likely be 
> mostly system libs that can easily change while one does not work on the 
> project for a longer time. Might it be better to have a global cache for the 
> global libs and a local one for the local ones?
> 
> On 23/07/19 01:03, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>> 
>> Odd question here but why do we have fp-info-cache?  Was there a bug
>> report for these or just speed improvements?
>> 
>> On my system, it is the difference between 1 second vs. 3 seconds during
>> the first footprint list load (full standard + personal libraries).
>> Does it make a bigger difference on other systems?  I assume so but I
>> was wondering if we have some data here?
>> 
>> I'd like to make storing it an option.  I've been working on templates
>> recently and keep needing to delete the extra files from the directory
>> (caches should not be valid for templates).
>> 
>> Thanks-
>> Seth
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Rene Pöschl]

Is there a reason why this file is even part of the project directory? I 
kind of assume it holds the info of all footprints. (If i am misinformed 
about that then ignore my inquiry.) Meaning for most users will most 
likely be mostly system libs that can easily change while one does not 
work on the project for a longer time. Might it be better to have a 
global cache for the global libs and a local one for the local ones?


On 23/07/19 01:03, Seth Hillbrand wrote:

Hi Folks,

Odd question here but why do we have fp-info-cache?  Was there a bug
report for these or just speed improvements?

On my system, it is the difference between 1 second vs. 3 seconds during
the first footprint list load (full standard + personal libraries).
Does it make a bigger difference on other systems?  I assume so but I
was wondering if we have some data here?

I'd like to make storing it an option.  I've been working on templates
recently and keep needing to delete the extra files from the directory
(caches should not be valid for templates).

Thanks-
Seth

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Re: [Kicad-developers] fp-info-cache question

[Jeff Young]

Hi Seth,

Just performance.  IIRC MSW was the real laggard, but even my Mac was more like 
7 seconds to 2.

Cheers,
Jeff.

> On 22 Jul 2019, at 17:03, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Odd question here but why do we have fp-info-cache?  Was there a bug report 
> for these or just speed improvements?
> 
> On my system, it is the difference between 1 second vs. 3 seconds during the 
> first footprint list load (full standard + personal libraries).  Does it make 
> a bigger difference on other systems?  I assume so but I was wondering if we 
> have some data here?
> 
> I'd like to make storing it an option.  I've been working on templates 
> recently and keep needing to delete the extra files from the directory 
> (caches should not be valid for templates).
> 
> Thanks-
> Seth
> 
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