Re: [Kicad-lib-committers] KiCad LIbrary Convention update 1.1

2016-09-11 Thread Carl Poirier 
The ECO layers are not paired. When you flip a footprint, the value stays
on the same ECO layer. Jean-Pierre, how is that a problem if the value is
purely for user reference?

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Jean-Paul Louis  wrote:

> in 40+ years of electronic manufacturing, I almost never saw values in
> silk screen.
> RefDes are fine for sparse boards, but useless with very dense boards.
> Values could be on some user layer, or maybe in one of the ECO layers.
>
> Just my $0.02,
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 11, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Oliver Walters  com> wrote:
> >
> > What if we set it invisible by default, and on the F.SilkS layer? That
> way the fab houses don't have to deal with it, and if any users want to
> display it, they just have to toggle the visibility.
> >
> >
> > On 12 Sep 2016 07:52, "Carl Poirier"  wrote:
> > Hi Jean-Pierre,
> >
> > I had not noticed this, thanks. The general consensus seems to be that
> values are not useful on the silkscreen layer. The comments from the
> assembly house reported by Vesa say the same. Maybe it would simply be
> better to leave the value field blank by default?
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 7:00 AM, jp charras 
> wrote:
> > Le 11/09/2016 à 04:01, Carl Poirier a écrit :
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > Following comments
> > >  conventions-non-ipc-compliant/3678/65> on
> > > KiCad's forum about the KLC, I went on to make a few adjustments to
> the KLC. They can be seen here
> > > .
> > >
> > > Do any of you have comments about the changes?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes, for this change:
> > "10.4: Value is filled with footprint name, has a height of 1mm and is
> placed on the Eco1.User"
> >
> > Value can be put only on a paired layer (currently only Fab or Silk for
> a text) like any graphic
> > item of a footprint in a footprint library.
> > ECO1 layer is not paired with ECO2 layer.
> >
> > It means all flipped footprints will have a broken value text if on ECO1
> layer.
> >
> > The "old" 10.4 rule is the only one possible option.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >
> >
> > --
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>
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Re: [Kicad-lib-committers] KiCad LIbrary Convention update 1.1

2016-09-11 Thread Jean-Paul Louis 
in 40+ years of electronic manufacturing, I almost never saw values in silk 
screen.
RefDes are fine for sparse boards, but useless with very dense boards.
Values could be on some user layer, or maybe in one of the ECO layers.

Just my $0.02,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL




> On Sep 11, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Oliver Walters  
> wrote:
> 
> What if we set it invisible by default, and on the F.SilkS layer? That way 
> the fab houses don't have to deal with it, and if any users want to display 
> it, they just have to toggle the visibility.
> 
> 
> On 12 Sep 2016 07:52, "Carl Poirier"  wrote:
> Hi Jean-Pierre,
> 
> I had not noticed this, thanks. The general consensus seems to be that values 
> are not useful on the silkscreen layer. The comments from the assembly house 
> reported by Vesa say the same. Maybe it would simply be better to leave the 
> value field blank by default?
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 7:00 AM, jp charras  wrote:
> Le 11/09/2016 à 04:01, Carl Poirier a écrit :
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Following comments
> > 
> >  on
> > KiCad's forum about the KLC, I went on to make a few adjustments to the 
> > KLC. They can be seen here
> > .
> >
> > Do any of you have comments about the changes?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> 
> Yes, for this change:
> "10.4: Value is filled with footprint name, has a height of 1mm and is placed 
> on the Eco1.User"
> 
> Value can be put only on a paired layer (currently only Fab or Silk for a 
> text) like any graphic
> item of a footprint in a footprint library.
> ECO1 layer is not paired with ECO2 layer.
> 
> It means all flipped footprints will have a broken value text if on ECO1 
> layer.
> 
> The "old" 10.4 rule is the only one possible option.
> 
> 
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
> 
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-lib-committers
> Post to : kicad-lib-committers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-lib-committers
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
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Re: [Kicad-lib-committers] KiCad LIbrary Convention update 1.1

2016-09-11 Thread Oliver Walters 
What if we set it invisible by default, and on the F.SilkS layer? That way
the fab houses don't have to deal with it, and if any users want to display
it, they just have to toggle the visibility.

On 12 Sep 2016 07:52, "Carl Poirier"  wrote:

> Hi Jean-Pierre,
>
> I had not noticed this, thanks. The general consensus seems to be that
> values are not useful on the silkscreen layer. The comments from the
> assembly house reported by Vesa say the same. Maybe it would simply be
> better to leave the value field blank by default?
>
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 7:00 AM, jp charras  wrote:
>
>> Le 11/09/2016 à 04:01, Carl Poirier a écrit :
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > Following comments
>> > > tions-non-ipc-compliant/3678/65> on
>> > KiCad's forum about the KLC, I went on to make a few adjustments to the
>> KLC. They can be seen here
>> > .
>> >
>> > Do any of you have comments about the changes?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Carl
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Yes, for this change:
>> "10.4: Value is filled with footprint name, has a height of 1mm and is
>> placed on the Eco1.User"
>>
>> Value can be put only on a paired layer (currently only Fab or Silk for a
>> text) like any graphic
>> item of a footprint in a footprint library.
>> ECO1 layer is not paired with ECO2 layer.
>>
>> It means all flipped footprints will have a broken value text if on ECO1
>> layer.
>>
>> The "old" 10.4 rule is the only one possible option.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>
>
>
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> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-lib-committers
> Post to : kicad-lib-committers@lists.launchpad.net
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> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-lib-committers] KiCad LIbrary Convention update 1.1

2016-09-11 Thread Vesa Solonen 
11/09/16, 05:01, Carl Poirier kirjoitti:

> Do any of you have comments about the changes?

Here are some comments an assembly house gave to me:

Silkscreen does not matter on board anyway. It's mostly a hindrance with
paste placement (creates a gap between paste stencil and board) and not
readable on a dense smd board. The only use is QC and hand placed
components, but that is not on board, but on a piece of paper. In that
case the best position for references is directly on the center of the
component.

Polarities and rotations. Kicad has a lot of components that are in
funny orientations. E.g. for polarized capacitors the polarity should be
in X-axis direction. These are something to check.

Finally the paste openings are hackish in the case of QFN. We should use
_separate_ paste pads that are not numbered and are just on paste layer.
The copper pad should be separate as should possible via pads for
cooling. The paste shrinking should also be lockable in the component,
but there is no zero and have to use a very small term to simulate that :)

-Vesa


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