Re: [kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[Jonatan Cloutier]

Hi,

It depends on your objective. In my situation, the joint account is only 
for shared expense or debt. It could also apply to saving. We don’t care 
about who’s doing the expense, if it's join expense (like groceries, 
electricity) it goes on our joint account, otherwise it's in our 
personal accounts.


Understanding who is doing the expense is not the objective here bring 
us to why a simple % help. In agreement with my SO we share in a 33/66%. 
If we have an asset, let say a house, the ownership of it has to be 
split using that %, the same goes for the mortgage, the credit card or 
the budget. If that ratio can be specified, it can then be used in the 
various reports.


> Would each owner still claim 50% ownership when the other person 
spent 90% of the expenses?


To answer your question, yes, because we do agree that they are joint 
expense.


Jonatan Cloutier

Le 2020-07-26 à 10 h 55, J. Varela a écrit :

Hi all,

It doesn't make much sense to me that it would be a straight % of 
ownership. For example, two people can have a joint bank account.


One month one owner can spend 50% of the expenses or bring in 50% of 
the income, to the account. Another month, one owner could spend 90% 
of the expenses.


Would each owner still claim 50% ownership when the other person spent 
90% of the expenses?


JV

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 4:39 PM Jonatan Cloutier 
mailto:bugzilla_nore...@kde.org>> wrote:


https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

Jonatan Cloutier mailto:cloutier...@gmail.com>> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added

                 CC|                           
|cloutier...@gmail.com 

--- Comment #7 from Jonatan Cloutier mailto:cloutier...@gmail.com>> ---
I've been dreaming of that feature for a few years. The two main
purpose for me
is to be able to split (%) of accounts or loan in the report.
Mainly the net
worth and the expense/budget report.

The second is to improve the budget management. Currently I have
to create 3
budget and 3 matching budget report: personal, SO personal and
join. Which in
the end is a pain to manage and understand. I always and up
merging them in a
spreadsheet.

If the proposed ratio was implemented, it would be down to one
budget per
persons which would be a great improvement.

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Re: [kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[J. Varela]

Hi all,

It doesn't make much sense to me that it would be a straight % of
ownership. For example, two people can have a joint bank account.

One month one owner can spend 50% of the expenses or bring in 50% of the
income, to the account. Another month, one owner could spend 90% of the
expenses.

Would each owner still claim 50% ownership when the other person spent 90%
of the expenses?

JV

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 4:39 PM Jonatan Cloutier 
wrote:

> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507
>
> Jonatan Cloutier  changed:
>
>What|Removed |Added
>
> 
>  CC||cloutier...@gmail.com
>
> --- Comment #7 from Jonatan Cloutier  ---
> I've been dreaming of that feature for a few years. The two main purpose
> for me
> is to be able to split (%) of accounts or loan in the report. Mainly the
> net
> worth and the expense/budget report.
>
> The second is to improve the budget management. Currently I have to create
> 3
> budget and 3 matching budget report: personal, SO personal and join. Which
> in
> the end is a pain to manage and understand. I always and up merging them
> in a
> spreadsheet.
>
> If the proposed ratio was implemented, it would be down to one budget per
> persons which would be a great improvement.
>
> --
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are the assignee for the bug.

[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[Jonatan Cloutier]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

Jonatan Cloutier  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||cloutier...@gmail.com

--- Comment #7 from Jonatan Cloutier  ---
I've been dreaming of that feature for a few years. The two main purpose for me
is to be able to split (%) of accounts or loan in the report. Mainly the net
worth and the expense/budget report. 

The second is to improve the budget management. Currently I have to create 3
budget and 3 matching budget report: personal, SO personal and join. Which in
the end is a pain to manage and understand. I always and up merging them in a
spreadsheet.

If the proposed ratio was implemented, it would be down to one budget per
persons which would be a great improvement.

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.

[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[Jack]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

--- Comment #6 from Jack  ---
I don't think slitting accounts would work well.  First the intent is to simply
designate % owenership for multiple people, not to necessarily show them
separately.  For bank or investment accounts, how would you reconcile, as the
institution's statement is for the entire account?  Similar for loans.

However, if the intent of this splitting is primarily for reporting purposes, I
wonder if the accounts only need to store those %'s, but not have them affect
the UI in any way.  The actual effect could be handled entirely within various
reports.  It's seems like a variation in some parts of tax reporting (at least
in the US) where some items can be designated as join, taxpayer, or spouse. 
That might make implementation simpler.

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[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[Dawid Wróbel]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

--- Comment #5 from Dawid Wróbel  ---
On a second thought, I oversimplified. 

This will work to some extent, but moving the Liability under the Shared
account won't help with anything. Best you could do is to transfer half of the
Shard Account assets to Liability account and continue to do so. 

As for proposed solution, I have a feeling it would be a bit too hacky to
implement and complicate the code significantly. Have you by any chance
compared the commercial software to see if they support shared accounts?

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[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[Dawid Wróbel]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

Dawid Wróbel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||m...@dawidwrobel.com

--- Comment #4 from Dawid Wróbel  ---
The way to do this in a double-ledger accounting is to create a Liability
account for your significant other and split your expenses 50% between yourself
(using relevant Category accounts) and said Liability account. 

Now, all your shared account assets should be also split between yourself and
significant other. At the end of the day, they are not yours only, so your
balance should also be properly reported. To simplify things and the amount of
accounting, you can just move your SO's Liability account under your Shared
Account, to make it its sub-cccount.

This way your total on Shared Account will automatically be reduced by the
Liability sub-account, and all your reports should display correctly.

Note that I didn't test it, but it should work.

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[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[alexandre]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

alexandre  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||alexan...@mont-web.ovh

--- Comment #3 from alexandre  ---
At the creation of the account, there could be a checkbox to check if the user
fully owns the account (checked by default). If the user unchecks this box,
he's able to set how much of the account he owns. 
This ratio (100% by default or the value set by the user) would be applied on
all expenses of this account in reports aggregating expenses from different
accounts. 
Thus it would be possible for someone who owns a shared bank account to see in
one report its personal budget, instead of having two manually aggregate two
reports (one for its personal account and another for its shared account).

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[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[antoine]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

--- Comment #2 from antoine  ---

> With a single file, you can separate individual accounts in the accounts
> hierarchy, although that alone isn't enough for reporting.  Can you
> elaborate on how you think a ration could be used - what would it change in
> reports?
> 

The ratio would be for situation like "I own 30% of this account, 60% of the
other one", this ratio should be apply on transaction and assets in report to
know your personal situation

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[kmymoney] [Bug 424507] Wish : Joint bank account

[Jack]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424507

Jack  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Severity|normal  |wishlist

--- Comment #1 from Jack  ---
You can use tags for that, whether using one or two files.  Using two separate
KMM files, it is possible for the same account to be present in both, although
there is still no way to know which transactions relate to which person.  

With a single file, you can separate individual accounts in the accounts
hierarchy, although that alone isn't enough for reporting.  Can you elaborate
on how you think a ration could be used - what would it change in reports?

Another related problem I have had is that credit card accounts may have
separate cards for each person, but there is no way to know which card was used
for any particular transaction.

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