[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Katrin Fischer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED

--- Comment #22 from Katrin Fischer  ---
I lot of people have spoken in favor of the cataloging search. Maybe we could
still improve its looks or functionality, but possibly this should go on
separate bugs. 

I am closing this WONTFIX. Please reopen if you disagree!

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Esther Melander  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||esth...@sodaspringsid.com

--- Comment #21 from Esther Melander  ---
Having two separate searches is useful in a multi-branch installation with a
shared catalog of bib records. In our case, we added javascript to limit the
catalog search to return results for items of the current home branch. The
cataloging search will search all bib records in the system including the
reservoir. Our consortium would not want to lose this functionality.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #20 from Katrin Fischer  ---
(In reply to Yan Yu from comment #19)
> Cataloging search is useful. 
> if you want to merge two records (like duplicated titles with different
> holdings), you can only do it after you do "Cataloging search", you cannot
> do it under "Search the Catalog", so Cataloging search is useful for
> catalogers. If there is another way to do title merge, please let me know.

Hi Yan, in current versions of Koha you can merge records form the normal
catalog search. You can also merge records from lists.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Yan Yu  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||yan...@klgates.com

--- Comment #19 from Yan Yu  ---
Cataloging search is useful. 
if you want to merge two records (like duplicated titles with different
holdings), you can only do it after you do "Cataloging search", you cannot do
it under "Search the Catalog", so Cataloging search is useful for catalogers.
If there is another way to do title merge, please let me know.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #18 from Katrin Fischer  ---
(In reply to Cori Lynn Arnold from comment #17)
> (In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #16)
> 
> > Hi Cori, 001 should be indexed as Control-number and be searchable. You
> > could add it to advanced search pull downs using jQuery - would that help of
> > have you already tried and found something not working?
> 
> Katrin,
> 
> Can you elaborate on this? Point me to some documentation? Which interface?

Verified on IRC that we talked about different things - Cori wants this for the
Z39.50/catalog search in the advanced cataloguing editor. I was thinking
regular Advanced search.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #17 from Cori Lynn Arnold  ---
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #16)

> Hi Cori, 001 should be indexed as Control-number and be searchable. You
> could add it to advanced search pull downs using jQuery - would that help of
> have you already tried and found something not working?

Katrin,

Can you elaborate on this? Point me to some documentation? Which interface?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #16 from Katrin Fischer  ---
(In reply to Cori Lynn Arnold from comment #15)
> Librarian here: 
> 
> We currently use the cataloging search because the Advanced Search doesn't
> support searching by control number. 

Hi Cori, 001 should be indexed as Control-number and be searchable. You could
add it to advanced search pull downs using jQuery - would that help of have you
already tried and found something not working?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Cori Lynn Arnold  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||carn...@dgiinc.com

--- Comment #15 from Cori Lynn Arnold  ---
Librarian here: 

We currently use the cataloging search because the Advanced Search doesn't
support searching by control number. We would prefer that the Advanced Search
supports searching the control number as well as searching in the reservoir
(for control number and the currently available fields). I agree with Barbara
Johnson, make the search configurable for those that are confused and want to
get rid of it. Then make the configurable preference of either the Basic or
Advanced editor the default.

I would ultimately prefer that a search works the same weather you are
searching in the catalog, the reservoir, or Z39.50. There are a three searching
interfaces in Koha in the cataloging tab and they all are drastically different
and return different things. Why not have one, efficient interface that does
the same thing?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Jonathan Druart  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.koha-community
   ||.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
   ||?id=23941

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Barbara Johnson  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||barbara.johnson@bedfordtx.g
   ||ov

--- Comment #14 from Barbara Johnson  ---
Our catalogers use the cataloguing search (/cataloguing/addbooks.pl) on a daily
basis.  We're able to easily find our records at the top of the list.  We don't
really pay any attention to the records in the reservoir.  For me, the display
at cataloguing search (/cataloguing/addbooks.pl is cleaner.  It displays less
information making it easier for me to detect the records I want to work with. 
Also, I do much less scrolling since I don't have to look at a longer display
for each record that includes the items.  Personally, I don't want it to go
away.  Maybe it could be a system preference to turn on/off. Or maybe libraries
that don't want to see it could hide the buttons and links with some
css/jquery.  Just my two cents.

Barbara Johnson

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Elaine Bradtke  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||e...@efdss.org

--- Comment #13 from Elaine Bradtke  ---
Librarian here:
We don't generally use the cataloguing search.  I will use it in the test site,
to check the reservoir on rare occasions. But the rest of the staff ignore that
option. In the odd instances they accidently use that search they are slightly
perplexed by the reservoir results. From the perspective of our library - the
option of searching the reservoir is useful, but rarely used, and not by the
average cataloguer, but by the person who uploads data into Koha.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #12 from Gaetan Boisson  ---
I fully agree with Nick here.

The way i see it we should remove this odd search, have the normal catalog
search as default in the cataloging module, and an extra tab to search just the
reservoir.

Giving trainings to librarians on a very regular basis, this has been confusing
as hell. It's hard to explain to users that, because they are in the cataloging
module, they don't get all the search features they are used to. Catalogers
really miss having facets and sorts and all the nice things they have on the
normal search, and because it's the default and the name is confusing
("cataloging search" instead of "search the catalog") they really have no idea
why the display is so different.

Also, if what you do want to do is search the reservoir, then you need to
scroll all the way down to find you results.

So yes, a dedicated reservoir search, with regular search being the default for
the cataloging module, would definitely make me happy!

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Gaetan Boisson  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||gaetan.bois...@biblibre.com
 Blocks||20396


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20396
[Bug 20396] Omnibus: Koha Cleanup
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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Agnes Rivers-Moore  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||a...@hanover.ca

--- Comment #11 from Agnes Rivers-Moore  ---
Just in case anyone ever revisits this one...
As a librarian, having the reservoir separate is a benefit to non-cataloguing
staff. When cataloguers search they expect to find records that are not in
library stock. For other staff it is confusing to read through multiple
variations of a title, looking for the one that has a live item. For that
reason reservoir records need to be filtered out from staff searches somehow.
>From the technical standpoint, there may be advantages in not loading lots of
records to Zebra/Elasticsearch and having system resources spent on fully
indexing them, when they may never be added as stock. Z39.50 loads MARC records
for all search hits to reservoir. Cataloguers pick one variant, but the rest
live on in reservoir until cleaned out. From experience, the reservoir can
become larger than the library stock database in as little as a year or so,
depending on cataloguing practice.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Patrick Robitaille  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||patrick.robitai...@ccsr.qc.
   ||ca

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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Nicole C. Engard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|neng...@gmail.com   |

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||n...@quecheelibrary.org

--- Comment #10 from Nick Clemens n...@quecheelibrary.org ---
As a regular cataloger I have always avoided cataloging search since, in the
versions we have used, ISBNs did not normalize and I couldn't use the search
commands (ti:, au: etc)  I have also encountered sorting issues like finding
exact title matches far down or on later pages.

I think most catalogers in our consortia do use the 'cataloging' search, but I
suspect that is mostly because of the name and that is how they were trained. 

I would be very happy to see reservoir search as a tab option in the header
with focus on the 'search the catalog tab'

Just my two cents

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Marjorie Barry-Vila marjorie.barry-v...@ccsr.qc.ca changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||marjorie.barry-v...@ccsr.qc
   ||.ca

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #9 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
*** Bug 2136 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Chris Cormack ch...@bigballofwax.co.nz changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ch...@bigballofwax.co.nz

--- Comment #7 from Chris Cormack ch...@bigballofwax.co.nz ---
(In reply to Nicole C. Engard from comment #5)
 The history of this is that the cataloging search used to be the only place
 with the edit items and edit record links ... but now that's on the regular
 search as well so I agree it's still to have two searches.  I think the
 cataloging search should only search the reservoir and be renamed such.

Not entirely true, you could always edit biblios and items from the staff
Catalogue, even as far back as 1.0. Back then there was also the catalogue
maintenance module where you could undelete biblio and items, and move items to
different biblioitems (groups).

Cataloguing search has also always been there, because yes it searches not only
what is in the catalogue but what has been staged also. In one search. 

I'd like to be sure people aren't using it before we attempt yet another
refactoring exercise and cause regressions.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #8 from Galen Charlton gmcha...@gmail.com ---
An additional point -- there are targets where it can cost money to perform
Z39.50 searches ... per search!  I believe that this was the case with OCLC at
one point, and there may be other cases.  The reservoir offers a way of
reducing cataloging costs by checking it first before resorting to a Z39.50
search.

How well this works in practice, I don't know, but I would be curious to hear
from catalogers who use Koha on a daily basis.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||neng...@gmail.com

--- Comment #5 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
The history of this is that the cataloging search used to be the only place
with the edit items and edit record links ... but now that's on the regular
search as well so I agree it's still to have two searches.  I think the
cataloging search should only search the reservoir and be renamed such.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de

--- Comment #1 from Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de ---
Hm, maybe when nothing is found in search, we could forward to the cataloguing
search for a search in the reservoir. So if you don't find what you are looking
for, expand search into the cataloguing search to check the reservoir, then
repeat that search with z39.50.

Right now I don't see how we could integrate the reservoir search into the
normal search well. Having a tool more dedicated to cataloguers makes sense to
me, but maybe the page and the functionality needs some thought.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #2 from mathieu saby mathieu.s...@univ-rennes2.fr ---
It was just an idea...
Having 2 places in Koha for searching records seems strange when you have used
other ILS.

Moreover, is not it a potential source of bugs to maintain 2 files for the same
purpose (searching records)?

M. Saby

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

--- Comment #3 from Katrin Fischer katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de ---
I think the reservoir is not Zebra, but only MySQL search. So it would probably
not be so easy to merge those 2. Maybe it should just be a reservoir search?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 10047] Cataloguing search maybe useless?

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10047

Liz Rea l...@catalyst.net.nz changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||l...@catalyst.net.nz

--- Comment #4 from Liz Rea l...@catalyst.net.nz ---
I have always found this extremely odd as well - I would like to hear
librarians tell us what they like about the cataloguing search (in addition to
the reservoir) so that we can integrate that into the main search and eliminate
the cataloguing search.

It's confusing and needs to go away.

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