[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #16 from Katrin Fischer  ---
*** Bug 25688 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

David Cook  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||dc...@prosentient.com.au

--- Comment #15 from David Cook  ---
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #13)
> I am sorry, but I don't understand the difference for itemtypes.
> We've had no issues with the terms here so far. Currently Koha uses "All".

Yeah I don't understand the difference either. While the circulation rules can
be confusing, I don't think it's because of the term "All"? I think people just
struggle with the concept of rules matching on a 1st rule found basis rather
than all rules applying always.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

Jonathan Druart  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||jonathan.dru...@bugs.koha-c
   ||ommunity.org
   Severity|major   |normal
   See Also||https://bugs.koha-community
   ||.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
   ||?id=15522

--- Comment #14 from Jonathan Druart  
---
Lowering severity.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

Katrin Fischer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de

--- Comment #13 from Katrin Fischer  ---
I am sorry, but I don't understand the difference for itemtypes.
We've had no issues with the terms here so far. Currently Koha uses "All".

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

Nicole C. Engard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|neng...@gmail.com   |

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #12 from Paul Poulain  ---
yes it is. And what is "funny" is that we have a customer asking about that
last friday !!! (he was confused by the terms & thought there was a bug,
counting "all" as "global total" instead of "otherwise"

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of "All" in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

Marc Véron  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ve...@veron.ch

--- Comment #11 from Marc Véron  ---
Still valid?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

Koha Team Lyon 3 k...@univ-lyon3.fr changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||k...@univ-lyon3.fr

--- Comment #10 from Koha Team Lyon 3 k...@univ-lyon3.fr ---
I'm not sure of the rule for itemtypes :
I test in issuingrules :
categorycodeitemtypemaxissueqty
ETUL3*10
ETUL3DVD2
ETUL3EXC0
ETUL3PRET10
ETUL3PRET3J2

with this parameters, an ETUL3 Patron can check out 10 PRET + 2 DVD + 2 PRET3J
: a total of 14 items.
The line ETUL3*10 doesn't match.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #9 from Paul Poulain paul.poul...@biblibre.com ---
(In reply to comment #8)
 Sorry for the delay, I was doing some research.  Librarians seem to like the
 idea of going back to 'Default' instead of 'All'.  But we might want to ask
 why it was changed to all originally - who was confused by 'All'?
 
 Nicole

The main issue here is that the all (same word) has different meanings. See
the initial description of this bug:
* for libraries and patrons, it means value to use if there is no rule for
this library/patron
* for itemtypes it means otherwise, it's not exactly the same default

Let me take another example:
3 libraries LA, LB, LC
3 patron categories PA, PB, PC
3 itemtypes IA, IB, IC

If you define
LA, PA, IA = 5 items
LA, PA, IB = 5 items
LA, PA, IC = 5 items
*, *, * = 10 items
it will mean one can issue 10 items from LB *and* 10 items from LC

That's not the same behaviour as for itemtypes, where
LA, PA, IA = 5
LA, PA, * = 10
means 10 IB *or* IC (= 10 IB, 9 IB+1IC, 8+2, 7+3,...)

Different behaviour = different terms should be used !

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #8 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
Sorry for the delay, I was doing some research.  Librarians seem to like the
idea of going back to 'Default' instead of 'All'.  But we might want to ask why
it was changed to all originally - who was confused by 'All'?

Nicole

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

[bugzilla-daemon]

http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #7 from Paul Poulain paul.poul...@biblibre.com ---
(In reply to comment #5)
 The problem here in the US is that it used to say Default and confused the
 librarians here so that's why it was changed to 'All' - so now we're looking
 for another word that will make sense to everyone.
 
 Maybe it needs to be a phrase instead if it's a translation issue.

I repeat what I wrote in comment 7: could we replace 'All' by something else?
I propose : 'No specific itemtype rule'; 'other itemtype', 'any', 'otherwise',
'any other itemtype'

Nicole, any other suggestion ? one of mine sounds good ?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #6 from Paul Poulain paul.poul...@biblibre.com ---
(In reply to comment #5)
 Maybe it needs to be a phrase instead if it's a translation issue.

I would be pleased by a phrase instead of a word as common as all. Could you
suggest something (and/or submit a patch I would be happy to signoff  push)

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #4 from Paul Poulain paul.poul...@biblibre.com ---
(In reply to comment #3)
 Hi Paul,
 
 I wasn't confused by this term, and I haven't come across any Koha partners
 who were confused.
The french version is quite confusing, none or BibLibre librarian project
managers (4) had understood it works that way.

 I can't think of a better term to use that would fit on
 a tab.  Do you have any suggestions for a better term to use?
I propose:
 * Default = for branches and categorycode
 * Otherwise = for itemtype

 Maybe we can just be more explicit in the manual about what is being done in
 each case, rather than creating a new term?
That's also needed, but differenciating the terms is also.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #5 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
The problem here in the US is that it used to say Default and confused the
librarians here so that's why it was changed to 'All' - so now we're looking
for another word that will make sense to everyone.

Maybe it needs to be a phrase instead if it's a translation issue.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

claire.hernan...@biblibre.com claire.hernan...@biblibre.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||claire.hernandez@biblibre.c
   ||om

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #1 from Nicole C. Engard neng...@gmail.com ---
Paul,

Sounds to me like they are saying the same thing: All, unless another rule
exists that can apply here.

Is that not the case?

Nicole

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

--- Comment #2 from Paul Poulain paul.poul...@biblibre.com ---
(In reply to comment #1)
 Sounds to me like they are saying the same thing: All, unless another rule
 exists that can apply here.
 
 Is that not the case?


Hi Nicole,
That's just a term that can be confusing. For branches  patron category, it
means rule to apply if no other rule exists. In my example, if you have a
all rule of 4 books, you can issue 4 books from library A AND 4 books from
library B.

For itemtype, it's a little bit different: one could think he can issue 4 DVD
AND 4 CDs, but in fact he can just check-ou 4 not (BOOKS or Comics). So 3 DVD
and 1 CD, or 2 and 2 or 4 and 0 (a *total* of 4, not 4 on each itemtype not
defined)

Do you see the difference ? I think it's worth a different term.

Other option = if you consider it should be 4 DVDs and 4CD, it means it's a
bug, because it's not the current behaviour and it must be fixed !

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 8366] Meaning of All in issuing rules

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http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8366

Albert Oller a...@bywatersolutions.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||a...@bywatersolutions.com

--- Comment #3 from Albert Oller a...@bywatersolutions.com ---
Hi Paul,

I wasn't confused by this term, and I haven't come across any Koha partners who
were confused.  I can't think of a better term to use that would fit on a tab. 
Do you have any suggestions for a better term to use?

Maybe we can just be more explicit in the manual about what is being done in
each case, rather than creating a new term?

Best regards,
Albert

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