Re: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is biblioitemnumber for?]

2018-11-21 Thread Paul Poulain 
I agree with the idea of catalinking, and/but I think that most of the 
catalinking will be done by national repos (like BNF, LoC, ...)


That's why I think/feel that we should focus on linked data display 
first. And that's one of the reason why we (BibLibre) started the 
"Explore" project (see my talk at the KohaCon18 : 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIByWcvIj5Q)


we're continuing to investigate, try, fail, retry, ...

I also think that academic library point of view will differ a little 
bit from public library pov.



Le 21/11/2018 à 13:07, Stefano Bargioni a écrit :

I also like to speak from a "cataloguer first" point of view.
I mean: with RDA and LRM, cataloguing is moving to ... catalinking 
[1]. It is an intellectual job, that the staff UI has to support. Of 
course, in the background a robust data structure (oriented to objects 
and links among them) is required.
And good (linked) data are IMHO necessary to build a powerful search 
interface.
So, can Koha evolve up to this vision, where maybe Bibframe and 
MARC21+RDA have to be present at the same time? A lot of work, I'm 
sure, that requires (not only) new funds.

Ciao. Stefano

[1] 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steveb59/14262929380/in/album-72157648757917805/


On 21 Nov 2018, at 02:32, David Cook > wrote:


Recently, I used a discovery layer for a public library of which I’m 
a member, and I was so frustrated, as the search interface was so 
poorly designed. I spent minutes trying to find my resource but I 
couldn’t do anything but put keywords into a box, which did not 
retrieve the resource. Fortunately, I was able to fallback to their 
legacy catalogue where the search only took me 2 seconds to find the 
resource.
But it’s a reminder that the people who matter most are the users of 
the library system. If that library loses their legacy catalogue, 
I’ll probably just stop using that library, as the discovery layer 
search interface was useless.

David Cook
Systems Librarian
Prosentient Systems
72/330 Wattle St
Ultimo, NSW 2007
Australia
Office: 02 9212 0899
Direct: 02 8005 0595
*From:*David Cook [mailto:dc...@prosentient.com.au]
*Sent:*Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:30 PM
*To:*'Paul Poulain' >; 
'koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
' 
>
*Subject:*RE: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
biblioitemnumber for?]
I can’t speak to LRM at all, but it reminds me how perhaps we should 
start moving towards uncoupling some parts of Koha and thinking more 
about how the different aspects should/could interact with different 
metadata models.
I think Paul has already targeted the most important thing and that’s 
search. Users don’t care what metadata model is in Koha. They just 
want to be able to find the resources they desire. So whatever we do… 
I think we should put OPAC users of Koha first and then work backwards.

David Cook
Systems Librarian
Prosentient Systems
72/330 Wattle St
Ultimo, NSW 2007
Australia
Office: 02 9212 0899
Direct: 02 8005 0595
*From:*koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
[mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org]*On 
Behalf Of*Paul Poulain

*Sent:*Tuesday, 20 November 2018 11:58 PM
*To:*koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 

*Subject:*[Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
biblioitemnumber for?]


Hello Stefano,

What you're pointing Stefano is very important: we must start our 
effort toward LRM.


Here is my 1st thoughts about it: I think that LRM support on Koha 
means 2 things:


  * internal handling of the LRM model. This would mean breaking the
biblio/items structure of the database, managing "LRM records"
(if we have), proposing LRM cataloguing tools, and changing many
many other things in Koha (like MARC staging, z39/50 search, ...)
I feel that this will require years and a lot of work, and for
now the national catalogs are not ready to propose that.
  * new search paradigm. What the Oslo Public Library made is very
interesting. when you do a search, you get the works
(author/title/copyright date), then can see the expressions that
exists in the library (publication dates, material type/support),
then the items. Example: X I don't know in US, italy or other
countries, but in France the BNF is working hard on adding "LRM"
fields in their catalogue. This is done by adding new MARC fields
(a lot...), that will contain an ARK to the linked data (work,
authors, place, subject, ...). Last week, there was a meeting at
the BNF where they presented their plans for 2019. BibLibre has
not yet started to investigate the effort to create a
"LRM-UNIMARC-Elastic Search" in Koha, but, for sure that's
something we'll investigate in 2019. If anyone is willing

Re: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is biblioitemnumber for?]

2018-11-21 Thread Stefano Bargioni 
I also like to speak from a "cataloguer first" point of view.
I mean: with RDA and LRM, cataloguing is moving to ... catalinking [1]. It is 
an intellectual job, that the staff UI has to support. Of course, in the 
background a robust data structure (oriented to objects and links among them) 
is required.
And good (linked) data are IMHO necessary to build a powerful search interface.
So, can Koha evolve up to this vision, where maybe Bibframe and MARC21+RDA have 
to be present at the same time? A lot of work, I'm sure, that requires (not 
only) new funds.
Ciao. Stefano 

[1] 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steveb59/14262929380/in/album-72157648757917805/ 


> On 21 Nov 2018, at 02:32, David Cook  wrote:
> 
> Recently, I used a discovery layer for a public library of which I’m a 
> member, and I was so frustrated, as the search interface was so poorly 
> designed. I spent minutes trying to find my resource but I couldn’t do 
> anything but put keywords into a box, which did not retrieve the resource. 
> Fortunately, I was able to fallback to their legacy catalogue where the 
> search only took me 2 seconds to find the resource. 
>  
> But it’s a reminder that the people who matter most are the users of the 
> library system. If that library loses their legacy catalogue, I’ll probably 
> just stop using that library, as the discovery layer search interface was 
> useless.
>  
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>  
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>  
> From: David Cook [mailto:dc...@prosentient.com.au 
> ] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:30 PM
> To: 'Paul Poulain'  >; 'koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
> ' 
>  >
> Subject: RE: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
> biblioitemnumber for?]
>  
> I can’t speak to LRM at all, but it reminds me how perhaps we should start 
> moving towards uncoupling some parts of Koha and thinking more about how the 
> different aspects should/could interact with different metadata models. 
>  
> I think Paul has already targeted the most important thing and that’s search. 
> Users don’t care what metadata model is in Koha. They just want to be able to 
> find the resources they desire. So whatever we do… I think we should put OPAC 
> users of Koha first and then work backwards. 
>  
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>  
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>  
> From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
>  
> [mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
> ] On Behalf Of Paul 
> Poulain
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2018 11:58 PM
> To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
> 
> Subject: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
> biblioitemnumber for?]
>  
> Hello Stefano,
> 
> What you're pointing Stefano is very important: we must start our effort 
> toward LRM.
> 
> Here is my 1st thoughts about it: I think that LRM support on Koha means 2 
> things:
> 
> internal handling of the LRM model. This would mean breaking the biblio/items 
> structure of the database, managing "LRM records" (if we have), proposing LRM 
> cataloguing tools, and changing many many other things in Koha (like MARC 
> staging, z39/50 search, ...) I feel that this will require years and a lot of 
> work, and for now the national catalogs are not ready to propose that.
> new search paradigm. What the Oslo Public Library made is very interesting. 
> when you do a search, you get the works (author/title/copyright date), then 
> can see the expressions that exists in the library (publication dates, 
> material type/support), then the items. Example: X I don't know in US, 
> italy or other countries, but in France the BNF is working hard on adding 
> "LRM" fields in their catalogue. This is done by adding new MARC fields (a 
> lot...), that will contain an ARK to the linked data (work, authors, place, 
> subject, ...). Last week, there was a meeting at the BNF where they presented 
> their plans for 2019. BibLibre has not yet started to investigate the effort 
> to create a "LRM-UNIMARC-Elastic Search" in Koha, but, for sure that's 
> something we'll investigate in 2019. If anyone is willing to join the effort, 
> let me know (even better: if you are interested in LRM-MARC21-Elastic, the 
> idea being to have a flexible configuration). If anyone has information 
> regarding LRM-MARC21-LoC plans, feel free to share !
> Have I missed something ? What are your plan regarding IFLA-LRM ? What's next 
> ?
> 
> Le

Re: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is biblioitemnumber for?]

2018-11-20 Thread David Cook 
Recently, I used a discovery layer for a public library of which I’m a member, 
and I was so frustrated, as the search interface was so poorly designed. I 
spent minutes trying to find my resource but I couldn’t do anything but put 
keywords into a box, which did not retrieve the resource. Fortunately, I was 
able to fallback to their legacy catalogue where the search only took me 2 
seconds to find the resource. 

 

But it’s a reminder that the people who matter most are the users of the 
library system. If that library loses their legacy catalogue, I’ll probably 
just stop using that library, as the discovery layer search interface was 
useless.

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: David Cook [mailto:dc...@prosentient.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:30 PM
To: 'Paul Poulain' ; 
'koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org' 
Subject: RE: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
biblioitemnumber for?]

 

I can’t speak to LRM at all, but it reminds me how perhaps we should start 
moving towards uncoupling some parts of Koha and thinking more about how the 
different aspects should/could interact with different metadata models. 

 

I think Paul has already targeted the most important thing and that’s search. 
Users don’t care what metadata model is in Koha. They just want to be able to 
find the resources they desire. So whatever we do… I think we should put OPAC 
users of Koha first and then work backwards. 

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
  
[mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Paul Poulain
Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2018 11:58 PM
To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
 
Subject: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
biblioitemnumber for?]

 

Hello Stefano,

What you're pointing Stefano is very important: we must start our effort toward 
LRM.

Here is my 1st thoughts about it: I think that LRM support on Koha means 2 
things:

*   internal handling of the LRM model. This would mean breaking the 
biblio/items structure of the database, managing "LRM records" (if we have), 
proposing LRM cataloguing tools, and changing many many other things in Koha 
(like MARC staging, z39/50 search, ...) I feel that this will require years and 
a lot of work, and for now the national catalogs are not ready to propose that.
*   new search paradigm. What the Oslo Public Library made is very 
interesting. when you do a search, you get the works (author/title/copyright 
date), then can see the expressions that exists in the library (publication 
dates, material type/support), then the items. Example: X I don't know in 
US, italy or other countries, but in France the BNF is working hard on adding 
"LRM" fields in their catalogue. This is done by adding new MARC fields (a 
lot...), that will contain an ARK to the linked data (work, authors, place, 
subject, ...). Last week, there was a meeting at the BNF where they presented 
their plans for 2019. BibLibre has not yet started to investigate the effort to 
create a "LRM-UNIMARC-Elastic Search" in Koha, but, for sure that's something 
we'll investigate in 2019. If anyone is willing to join the effort, let me know 
(even better: if you are interested in LRM-MARC21-Elastic, the idea being to 
have a flexible configuration). If anyone has information regarding 
LRM-MARC21-LoC plans, feel free to share !

Have I missed something ? What are your plan regarding IFLA-LRM ? What's next ?

Le 19/11/2018 à 16:58, Stefano Bargioni a écrit :

Paul, very interesting the basic historic idea. What you wrote, helps me to say 
that with Elasticsearch, Koha has the possibility to adopt definitely the LRM 
[1] model, that is going to be implemented in RDA [2].
Especially important IMHO are links among authorities. Or, better, links of any 
type.
Stefano 
 
[1] https://www.ifla.org/publications/node/11412
[2] http://www.rda-rsc.org/ImplementationLRMinRDA

-- 
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / co-owner
BibLibre, Services en logiciels libres pour les bibliothèques
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for libraries
___
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bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/

Re: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is biblioitemnumber for?]

2018-11-20 Thread David Cook 
I can’t speak to LRM at all, but it reminds me how perhaps we should start 
moving towards uncoupling some parts of Koha and thinking more about how the 
different aspects should/could interact with different metadata models. 

 

I think Paul has already targeted the most important thing and that’s search. 
Users don’t care what metadata model is in Koha. They just want to be able to 
find the resources they desire. So whatever we do… I think we should put OPAC 
users of Koha first and then work backwards. 

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
[mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Paul Poulain
Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2018 11:58 PM
To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
Subject: [Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is 
biblioitemnumber for?]

 

Hello Stefano,

What you're pointing Stefano is very important: we must start our effort toward 
LRM.

Here is my 1st thoughts about it: I think that LRM support on Koha means 2 
things:

*   internal handling of the LRM model. This would mean breaking the 
biblio/items structure of the database, managing "LRM records" (if we have), 
proposing LRM cataloguing tools, and changing many many other things in Koha 
(like MARC staging, z39/50 search, ...) I feel that this will require years and 
a lot of work, and for now the national catalogs are not ready to propose that.
*   new search paradigm. What the Oslo Public Library made is very 
interesting. when you do a search, you get the works (author/title/copyright 
date), then can see the expressions that exists in the library (publication 
dates, material type/support), then the items. Example: X I don't know in 
US, italy or other countries, but in France the BNF is working hard on adding 
"LRM" fields in their catalogue. This is done by adding new MARC fields (a 
lot...), that will contain an ARK to the linked data (work, authors, place, 
subject, ...). Last week, there was a meeting at the BNF where they presented 
their plans for 2019. BibLibre has not yet started to investigate the effort to 
create a "LRM-UNIMARC-Elastic Search" in Koha, but, for sure that's something 
we'll investigate in 2019. If anyone is willing to join the effort, let me know 
(even better: if you are interested in LRM-MARC21-Elastic, the idea being to 
have a flexible configuration). If anyone has information regarding 
LRM-MARC21-LoC plans, feel free to share !

Have I missed something ? What are your plan regarding IFLA-LRM ? What's next ?

Le 19/11/2018 à 16:58, Stefano Bargioni a écrit :

Paul, very interesting the basic historic idea. What you wrote, helps me to say 
that with Elasticsearch, Koha has the possibility to adopt definitely the LRM 
[1] model, that is going to be implemented in RDA [2].
Especially important IMHO are links among authorities. Or, better, links of any 
type.
Stefano 
 
[1] https://www.ifla.org/publications/node/11412
[2] http://www.rda-rsc.org/ImplementationLRMinRDA

-- 
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / co-owner
BibLibre, Services en logiciels libres pour les bibliothèques
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for libraries
___
Koha-devel mailing list
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http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
website : http://www.koha-community.org/
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bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/

[Koha-devel] roadmap to LRM support ? [was Re: What is biblioitemnumber for?]

2018-11-20 Thread Paul Poulain 

Hello Stefano,

What you're pointing Stefano is very important: we must start our effort 
toward LRM.


Here is my 1st thoughts about it: I think that LRM support on Koha means 
2 things:


 * internal handling of the LRM model. This would mean breaking the
   biblio/items structure of the database, managing "LRM records" (if
   we have), proposing LRM cataloguing tools, and changing many many
   other things in Koha (like MARC staging, z39/50 search, ...) I feel
   that this will require years and a lot of work, and for now the
   national catalogs are not ready to propose that.
 * new search paradigm. What the Oslo Public Library made is very
   interesting. when you do a search, you get the works
   (author/title/copyright date), then can see the expressions that
   exists in the library (publication dates, material type/support),
   then the items. Example: X I don't know in US, italy or other
   countries, but in France the BNF is working hard on adding "LRM"
   fields in their catalogue. This is done by adding new MARC fields (a
   lot...), that will contain an ARK to the linked data (work, authors,
   place, subject, ...). Last week, there was a meeting at the BNF
   where they presented their plans for 2019. BibLibre has not yet
   started to investigate the effort to create a "LRM-UNIMARC-Elastic
   Search" in Koha, but, for sure that's something we'll investigate in
   2019. If anyone is willing to join the effort, let me know (even
   better: if you are interested in LRM-MARC21-Elastic, the idea being
   to have a flexible configuration). If anyone has information
   regarding LRM-MARC21-LoC plans, feel free to share !

Have I missed something ? What are your plan regarding IFLA-LRM ? What's 
next ?


Le 19/11/2018 à 16:58, Stefano Bargioni a écrit :

Paul, very interesting the basic historic idea. What you wrote, helps me to say 
that with Elasticsearch, Koha has the possibility to adopt definitely the LRM 
[1] model, that is going to be implemented in RDA [2].
Especially important IMHO are links among authorities. Or, better, links of any 
type.
Stefano

[1]https://www.ifla.org/publications/node/11412
[2]http://www.rda-rsc.org/ImplementationLRMinRDA


--
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / co-owner
BibLibre, Services en logiciels libres pour les bibliothèques
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for libraries

___
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bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/