KR> C.G. location / flying qualities

[Tony King]

Is that just with KR's or in general?

Tony King
Brisbane Australia

On 31 March 2010 15:44, phillip matheson wrote:

> In Australia, CASA ( Air Safety Dept) do NOT allow the use of the rear 2
> inches of the C of G for safety concerns.
>
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch 20
> www.phils...@50megs.com
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> C.G. location / flying qualities

[phillip matheson]

In Australia, CASA ( Air Safety Dept) do NOT allow the use of the rear 2 
inches of the C of G for safety concerns.

Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch 20
www.phils...@50megs.com 

KR> RE: tri gear and taildragger

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

AMEN, Virg


R. Human wrote:
>> The KR-2 is too short for a tail wheel. Maybe 
> Some of ya'll need to find a better tailwheel instructor!
>
> Rick Human
> N202RH
> Houston, Tx
>
>  
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>   

KR> RE: KR Newsletter Best Solution

[Patrick Driscoll]

Karl, I just clicked on the link in your email and the website opened right 
away .
Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patric...@usfamily.net

If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran 

KR> RE: tri gear and taildragger

[R. Human]

>The KR-2 is too short for a tail wheel. Maybe the
2-S is OK once you're used to it but the shorter "2" is no fun at all with a
tail wheel.<

All I can say to this is HORSE HOCKEY! I have a straight short body 2 with
fixed conventional gear and love the way it handles on the ground and in the
air. If you give it any thought you will figure out that the regular 2 with
the diehl gear will sit at a higher angle of attack than the longer tail 2S.

Some of ya'll need to find a better tailwheel instructor!

Rick Human
N202RH
Houston, Tx

KR> RE: tri gear and taildragger

[Joe Beyer]

I made my first five flights in my KR-2 as a tail dragger on a long paved
and wide runway. The last landing was hard enough to bend the left main gear
and send the wheel partially into the stub wing. It also scraped the right
wing tip on the trailing edge. There were three fire engines that showed up
and one wanted to spray my plane with foam but there was no fuel leakage or
fire. After that incident I redesigned my landing gear to tri gear and had
much better times with it. The KR-2 is too short for a tail wheel. Maybe the
2-S is OK once you're used to it but the shorter "2" is no fun at all with a
tail wheel. With a nose wheel up front that is fully faired in only adds
about 12 lbs. of weight and sets the CG a bit foreword which I can really
notice in flight. I made one flight without the nose fairing and lost about
four mph in cruse speed. The shimmy damper I made was quite a learning
experience and kept the nose wheel from rattling the nose of the plane on
takeoff. 

Joe 
Scappoose Ore.

Message: 1
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 23:29:09 -0700
From: laser...@juno.com
Subject: Re: KR> tri gear and taildragger
To: kr...@mylist.net
Message-ID: <20100328.232909.2076.6.laser...@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


> "Who on the Net has flown both, and what is the difference"

KR> Spar vs. Capstrip spruce stock

[Ken Henderson]

All, 
Should have asked this as well. If capstrip is unsuitable for the wing 
spars is it also unsuitable for the spars used in the horizontal and vertical 
stabilizers? If so, not a problem as I will calculate width needed including 
kerf loss, order 5/8" spar stock, and rip them myself. Please excuse my 
ignorance. This wood is costing me a small fortune and I want to make sure I 
get what I need. Thanks, Ken

KR> Sun N Fun

[EZ Pilot]

Hello Netter's,



We are registered and will have a booth for the KR's near the pond behind
Hangar "D" this year at Sun n Fun.  Any and all interested in the KR are
more than welcome to stop by and say hi.  We will have a few sets of plans
available for sale for those who have been on the fence wondering about
availablity.  Gary Coppen will have his project there for all to see the
first part of the week with one of WW's Corvair engines installed and then,
weather permitting, Joe Horton will have his beautiful KR-2S on display for
you to drool over the second half of the week.  



I noticed there are other netters planning to attend and we can use our
booth as a rally point if you wish.  I'm in for the BBQ thing as well, just
let me know time and place.



Feel free to contact me direct for more info or ideas.  I'm looking forward
to attending SnF this year and getting the KR back in circulation for
builders in the experimental realm.



Regards,



Steve Glover

Production Manger

nV Aero.com

steve.glo...@nvaero.com

KR> Spar vs. Capstrip spruce stock

[Ken Henderson]

All,
Still trying to get my Aircraft Spruce wood order right and I have a few 
questions. Is capstrip suitable for use as spar and longeron material? In their 
online catalog Aircraft Spruce states that their capstrip stock is 
"non-structural". Aren't spars considered structural? 
The reason for this question is this. For the KR-2S front and rear outer 
wing spars I will need (4) 1 15/16" x 1 7/8" x 90" and (4) 7/8" x 7/8" x 91" 
pieces of spruce. These pieces are longer than what is supplied in the kit 
because I am eliminating the hokey foam spar extensions. I can order 7/8" x 
7/8" capstrip material or I can order a piece of spar stock 7/8" x 4" x 91" and 
rip my 4 rear outer spars from it if the capstrip material is not suitable but 
I can't figure out a way to do the front outer spars. Spar stock is available 
in up to 1 1/2" thickness and capstrip is available in up to 1" thickness. 
Either path will require a lamination of 2 pieces to achieve the required 
thickness unless I can order special thickness spar stock. Any advice?
Thanks, Ken

KR> RE: KR Newsletter Best Solution

[Ed Janssen]

Karl,

It opened fine for me - but it IS a large pdf file - something like 475 
pages long - so you may need some patience to wait for it to load.

Ed J.
. 
- Original Message - 
From: "Karl" 
To: "KRnet " 
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:29 AM
Subject: KR> RE: KR Newsletter Best Solution


Hi.

I have tried to open this link a few times with no luck. Does any have
better luck than I do?

Thanks

Karl

KR> delamination repairs

[Ed Janssen]

Daniel,

Depending on how large the area is to repair, it might be easier to form the 
trailing edge with thickened epoxy (flox) alone, using a straight edge, but 
if you use shaped aluminum, you could drill a bunch of little holes in the 
aluminum and epoxy (flox) the aluminum to the trailing edge and allow the 
epoxy to squeeze through the holes.  Then, as Ken Rand use to "technically" 
describe precedures in his plans book - "fit and fair" the trailing edge. 
:o)

Ed J.

- Original Message - 
From: "Daniel Root" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:09 AM
Subject: KR> delamination repairs


I've been thinking about my trailing edge delamination issue.

I seek the benefit our your collective wisdom.   Wouldn't a better way be to 
glass in a formed trailing edge somehow?  What would work best?  Off the top 
of my head, I'm thinking about a bent piece of aluminum cut to shape, but I 
haven't quite figured out how to attach it yet...

KR> RE: KR Newsletter Best Solution

[Mark Langford]

Karl wrote:

> I have tried to open this link a few times with no luck. Does any have
> better luck than I do?

It works for me.  It's a fairly large file though (63M), so if your internet 
connection is slow, I can see how it might time out before the download is 
finished.  It's a funny looking file thoughan excercise in Optical 
Character Recognition gone completely crazy.  It looks like one of those 
ransom notes from the 70's made out of various letters clipped from 
newspapers and magazines.

Mark Langford
n5...@hiwaay.net
website www.n56ml.com 

KR> RE: KR Newsletter Best Solution

[Karl]

Hi.

I have tried to open this link a few times with no luck. Does any have
better luck than I do?

Thanks

Karl



-Original Message-

Don't forget that Mark Lougheed has already scanned the early ones (with
permission from Ernie Koppe, the originator of the newsletter and editor
at that time) and the download for that is at
http://www.bouyea.net/digests/kr01-87.pdf .These old Newsletters are
chock full of good ideas, and really do belong to the community at
large, since we're the ones who wrote the articles...

Mark Langford
n5...@hiwaay.net
website www.n56ml.com 


___

KR> delamination repairs

[Daniel Root]

I've been thinking about my trailing edge delamination issue.  

As all y'all know, the trailing edge (per plans) is formed when the upper and 
lower surfaces are joined together at a point, and then trimmed to shape.  
Since my trailing edges are now coming apart at the corners (granted it's an 
old airframe), I'm thinking there's got to be a better way to build them.

I seek the benefit our your collective wisdom.   Wouldn't a better way be to 
glass in a formed trailing edge somehow?  What would work best?  Off the top of 
my head, I'm thinking about a bent piece of aluminum cut to shape, but I 
haven't quite figured out how to attach it yet...

KR> delamination repairs

[Daniel Root]

After a hard landing some years ago, my 1983 KR2 became a hangar queen for many 
years, before I acquired it. There is some delamination here
and there, and some gaps exposed foam at the stub wings and outboard wing 
roots.  Naturally I want to fix all that. Broken parts can always be rebuilt, 
and re-glassing is not an issue for me.  Small gouges  and deep scratches 
receive some micro.  After some forming and sanding, things can be brought back 
into shape. 

I have some delamination of the trailing edges, especially the ailerons.  From 
what I can tell, delamination is best repaired by injecting micro into the gaps 
and applying pressure until cured.  This method seems like a band-aid to me.  
Short of rebuilding the whole aileron, is there a better way?  

KR> C.G. location / flying qualities

[Larry Flesner]

At 07:33 AM 3/30/2010, you wrote:
>What effect if any does the engine have on flying a KR-2 with 2 people?  You
>would think that a larger engine like an 0-200 would bring the CG forward more
>as opposed to an Volkswagon 1853.
>How does the wing design effect the flying characteristics with 2 people?  The
>stock KR-2 wing vs. Diehl wing vs. AS504x wing.
>Can you just move the wing back a little to give a more forward CG?
>Kris Leirfallom


Adding a passenger will move the C.G. aft and in some KR's to a 
critical location that will make the airplane very unstable and 
difficult to fly.  The heavier engines move the empty C.G. forward so 
adding a passenger is not as critical.  C.G. too far aft can make the 
airplane a killer.

I don't know what the C.G. range of the new wing is but I suspect it 
is similar to the RAF48 (original wing) so there is probably not a 
great deal of difference between the two wings when it comes to 
W  Whichever wing is used, the loaded C.G. must fall within the 
design range.

Moving the engine forward to address a C.G. problem would be much 
easier than re-designing the fuselage to move the wing.

On the subject of wheel landings or 3 point with conventional 
gear,  my KR lands best using a tail low wheel landing with a bit of 
forward stick on touchdown to stick in on.  If I watch my approach 
speed, I can land and turn around in 1500 feet on a hard surface 
runway.  Tail wheel or nose wheel is strictly a matter of 
preference.  My conventional gear handles so well that I forget I'm 
flying a tail dragger.

Larry Flesner

KR> wheel vs tail landing

[kleirf...@ecomail.org]

What effect if any does the engine have on flying a KR-2 with 2 people?  You
would think that a larger engine like an 0-200 would bring the CG forward more
as opposed to an Volkswagon 1853.  

How does the wing design effect the flying characteristics with 2 people?  The
stock KR-2 wing vs. Diehl wing vs. AS504x wing.

Can you just move the wing back a little to give a more forward CG?

Kris Leirfallom
CFI
KR-2 Builder

Quoting laser...@juno.com:

> Steve Bennett said, 
> 
> > ". . . my original KR-1 that had the aluminum channel mounts, it was
> almost impossible to do a wheel landing."
> 
> My first KR was like that with two people in it.  Slow it down for
> landing and the tail would drop like a rock.  Had to land way above stall
> to avoid banging it down tail first.   The original KR-2 retractable is a
> wonderful plane for one person and a real handfull with two - not to
> mention how uncomfortable it is squashed shoulder to shoulder with heads
> tilting to the center (with the RR canopy).  I had a center stick and
> flew it from the center, feet on each of the outboard rudder pedals.  For
> one person that worked beautifully.  
> 
> With two people in it you had to hold forward stick for landing.  Good
> practice in getting the feel for aft-CG flying, but not fun.
> 
> Mike
> KSEE
>  
> 
> Nutrition
> Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=KtcxYhhVD6tUQgSTbCSUywAAJ1A9mk8a0luj1TJO2sh3zRLgAAYAAADNAAASQwA=
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 




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Fw: KR> tri gear and taildragger update.......

[Lee Van Dyke]

> #$#$#$#$#$#$#$##$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#
>
> To the net.
>
> Mike was 100% correct.  Haveing 3 pointed my taildragger 3 time now, you 
> have to come down a little nose down, and wheel land.  And yes put some 
> down in after you land, classic wheel landing stuff.  He was right to say 
> you can have to nose up abit on the tri gear, to 1 help slow you down, and 
> 2 to make sure you hit the mains first and not the nose first.  I have the 
> original retracts and there seems to be about a 2 foot height difference 
> sitting on the ground.  It is not a full 2 feet but you get the drift. 
> With my plane sitting s low to the ground, I feel like I get 2 ground 
> effects(affects) whatever.  Sunday morning I got in the plane N395JT and 
> circled the airport for about 15 minutes.  all temps were good and I 
> headed south to Casa Grande to show the owner that the plane did fly.  The 
> landing was very... and I mean very smooth.  The plane flew alot better 
> than mine.  Solid in the air and I could fly hands off for about 20 
> seconds.  A life time in mine.  The doc and I chatted for abit and I took 
> off, circled once for a flyby, and back to my port.  Another good landing, 
> a little fast but good brakes are good.  I packed my stuff in the 
> passenger seat and headed to Payson AZ, 9000 and 45 minutes later I passed 
> Payson and headed to Holbrook AZ.  I landed with about 2 gallons left. 
> Talk to Bob Glidden, gassed up and headed to Grants NM.  Topped off and 
> slugged my way off the runway @ 6700 ft.  I had about 3 ft per minute 
> climb until I got the airspeed up to about 120.  A 45 minute flight to 
> Sandia airpark in Edgewood NM.  and landed on a long bumpy 30 foot wide 
> strip of something called a runway.  Shut it down, talked to the new 
> owner, 5.5 hours 5 landing later all in the same day.  Then to the BBQ. 
> The new Owner Tom Thomas is friends with a prof MMA Fighter called Cowboy. 
> Don something, ill have to look it up.  the next day today I drove his 
> truck to Las Cruces with one of his farm hands.  Picked up his other plane 
> a Pereditor Ultra Pup.  I'm going to help fix that up.  Drove all day and 
> 38 hours later back home.
>
> Good night
>
> Lee Van Dyke



> Lee,
>
> I did not understand that stuff that Mike was saying about being able to 
> get
> in a higher angle of attack because of not having the tail wheel back 
> there.
> Maybe a little, but really?  I think it is the difference in the planes
> rather than the configuration.  I have never landed a tri-cycle gear KR, 
> but
> I'll bet it is just like the tail wheel low landing in the conventional,
> being careful to not get too aggressive on the forward stick.
>
> I know that I use forward stick when the mains touch, to kill the lift.
> Sometimes I get pretty aggressive about it, but you have made so many more
> landings than I have, that I'll bet you won't have any problem with it.
>
> Good luck.  Let us know how it goes and what the difference is after you
> have experienced it in person.  I am really curious.
>

>