KR> KR-1 Plans

[John Caudle]

Men of KR Flight:

I just received my KR-1 plans and am not overly pleased.

1)   Shipping and Handling cost $25.00 for a package the USPS shipped for $6.00
2)   No packing list.
3)   Several prints labeled KR-2...
4)   6 pages missing from the instruction manual.  

At this point I don't know if I have everything I need to build the aircraft or 
not.
I have a sinking feeling I wasted $139.00.  I thought my Corby plans left 
something
to be desired.  After paging through the KR-1 plans I will never say a bad word
about the Corby prints again!

I ran across a post in the archive that advised purchasing the KR-2 plans to 
supplement
the KR-1 plans.  It sure seems a shame to have to spend an additional $204.95 
plus $25.00 for shipping to get what you need to build the craft...  Is any one 
else having this issue?

Respectfully,

HillBilly John
Fenwick, West Virginia   

J.E. Caudle

Fenwick, WV

363TB (On the Bench)

KR> kr control sensitivity/ my final thoughts

[David Goodman]

Jeff wrote:

Is the KR2 really a lot more sensitive than a KR2S?

Having recently flown both the KR2S (mine) and test flown a basically stock
KR2 (small extensions on the horizontal stab) I can say they felt the same
to me.  I honestly could not tell enough difference between them to say one
felt any different than the other in pitch.  My plane has outer wing fuel
tanks and the KR2 I flew did not.  As a result, the KR2 has significantly
better roll rate, but I could not give you a degrees per second comparison.
It was noticeable.

Others mileage may vary.

IHS,
Dave "Zipper" Goodman
President, EAA-818

KR> flying kr's

[STEVE bennett]

To some degree, flying a KR for the first time is kind of like bowling.  A 
little right or left curve on the ball, a little top or bottom english, all can 
change the direction of  a KR.  Think right or left and it goes, not much stick 
movement.  Up takes some movement of the stick, down - not much, just move your 
head or body forward.  An aerial sports car indeed they are!  The aircraft is 
shorter coupled than certified aircraft.  Length and width.  Full span ailerons 
in a stiff cross wind, can be at best teasing.  If you want to hop and skip 
sideways across a runway, try a 15 mph direct crosswind on landing until it is 
planted.  Tail wheel slides can happen, main gear skips, all you will learn to 
deal with in your current flying time.  Its a great aircraft to fly, learn 
about flying, meat a great group of like minded friends and have ton's of fun 
with.  Several K hours of KR fun to date and more to come!
Steve

















1

Steve Bennett

Great Plains Aircraft

ifly...@msn.com

KR> kr control sensitivity

[Mark Langford]

Just a few more whacks at this horse to make absolutely sure it's a dead 
one.  Sorry, but I was out flying all day.  I'll probably be drummed out of 
" KRdum" for this one, but I suspect a 75% elevator would be just fine on 
something resembling a KR.  On my horizontal/elevator webpage, I wrote "In 
an effort to tame some of the pitch sensitivity, a made my horizontal 
stabilizer 6 inches longer on each side, but adjusted the elevator area to 
remain about the same as the plans call for. Increasing the horizontal 
stabilizer area was an effort to increase the horizontal tail volume 
coefficient."

This has worked out fine, but was written before I actually flew the thing. 
The reality is that the only time mine even sees HALF of full elevator stick 
movement is when I do the "stick movement free" test during the runup 
checklist.  [People that know me are cackling by now, but that is something 
I usually make a point of doing right before I take off, because cameras, 
laptops, and other junk have been known to fall down the passenger's stick 
hole and make things difficult.]I guess I need to put some kind of 
feedback recording device (a ruler) on the stick and find out what kind of 
stick movement I have on it during a full stall, but it's nowhere near full 
back stick, and I'll bet forward (down) stick deflection never exceeds a 
half inch, and that would be a mind-bending dive to impress somebody with a 
230 mph flyby.  A ONE inch deflection would be an invitation to slam the 
laptop and camera into the bottom of the canopy as I start going very 
negative in the gravity department.  I guess I should point out that my 
aileron control system is totally different from other KRs, but the elevator 
part is effectively identical.

As for putting various holes in the bellcrank for adjustability, that 
fine...I did that too.  But I haven't seen the need to move it from where I 
started...right in the middlejust about like the plans called for.  I'm 
told that the early Glasair folks tried the longer stick and came to the 
realization that the longer stick meant that yes, you had to move it further 
to effect a given attitude change, but the downside was that the stick 
forces declined correspondingly, so it was even easier to overcontrol the 
plane.  Just keep it short and out of the way.

I think the reality is that however the plane is set up, if you follow 
Larry's advice and simply look out the window and adjust the airplane 
accordingly, you'll do just fine.  Likewise, people do a lot of fretting 
over the prop turning the "wrong" way.  Forget that stuffyou just do the 
same thing you'd do in ANY plane if it starts drifting off to the right on 
takeoffgive it LEFT rudder!  As long as you are expecting to fly when 
you go down the runway at 50mph or higher, and realize that you don't want 
to go hauling back on the stick and then jam it forward after it does what 
you asked of it, you'll be fine.  Run it up to 60 mph (you did check your 
airspeed indicator before first flight, right?), and if it doesn't fly away 
by itelf, wait a little longer if you have the runway, and maybe then give 
it a little back stick until it does.

The KR is a great flying plane, period.  I find it humorous that bizjet 
pilots drool over my ugly KR...they don't even have to fly it to KNOW it's 
more fun than they have in their day job.  But it's all in what you're used 
to.  I flew a Cessna 170 for my BFR a few months ago, and I'm sure the 
instructor thought I was an idiot because I couldn't seem to turn the thing 
on initial climbout.I just couldn't bring myself to crank the wheel far 
enough to make it do that!  I got over that shortly and everything worked 
out, but you have to expect light controls on the KR and be careful not to 
overcontrol it on the first flight.  After five minutes you'll have it 
figured out.  Spend an hour flying around getting used to it, do a stall or 
two to find out what the nose attitude looks like right before it breaks, 
practice landings at 3000' AGL, and find a long runway to bleed off speed 
over while you glide a few feet over it.  When it's done flying, it'll land 
just fine.  First flight should be early on a totally calm day.  Anything 
else stacks the odds against you.  Once past that first flight, you are 
almost home free.  As mentioned by others, it's not the plane that's going 
to screw up...it's going to be you.

I think a lot of landing problems are that people try to land them too fast. 
In windy  or gusty conditions that's an invitation for disaster because of 
the relatively light wing loading.  Bouncing around at high speed right 
above the runway is going to lead to controllability problems, especially 
when you start bouncing off the runway.  At that point it's full throttle 
and go-around time, and come in slower next time around.  I wish I'd had 
that thought in my head on my first landing!  And keep in mind that a 
go-around doesn't involve stuffing 

KR> kr control sensitivity/ my final thoughts

[J L]

Is the KR2 really a lot more sensitive than a KR2S? I got a little
stick time in Joe Horton's and can say that its slightly lighter then
a Sonex and slightly heavier then a Sonerai I. It was vastly more
manageable than the Allegro that I flew.

I remember that the Sonex got a bad review in Kitplanes (or was it
Sport Aviation?) for the something similar.

Light control forces seem par for the course when it come to airplanes
in this class. I loved the way Joe's KR felt in the air.

Jeff Lange
SI - N1463J

On 10/17/10, Larry Flesner  wrote:
> At 01:10 PM 10/17/2010, you wrote:
>>I later read on KR-net about Bill Rent who built a KR-1 and taxied
>>it for ten hours to get the feel of the pitch and then flew it for
>>20 years. I
>>was sick because I could have done the same and had a barrel of fun.
> 
>
> Having nothing else to think about while doing yard work this
> afternoon, my thoughts wondered back to flying the KR.  I thought I
> would offer some food for thought for those that have not yet flown a
> KR so you can get back to building and not wonder if you're wasting
> your time in the shop.   Anyone having more than one hour in a KR is
> beyond this advise.
>
> My first thought is that 10 hours of taxi testing is much too much
> exposure to an accident but I'll get back to that in a
> minute.  Besides, taxi testing is not that good of a teacher for
> pitch control, just directional control.  Pitch control is MUCH LESS
> SENSITIVE from 0 mph to tail up then after liftoff.
>
> Random thoughts for working up to first flight:
>
> 1.  Never attempt to fly your KR unless you have enough recent flight
> time to be totally comfortable in an airplane.  You should be as
> comfortable in the cockpit as you are in your pickup truck.
> 2. Never take to the runway to do taxi tests unless the airplane and
> pilot are totally ready to fly.  You never know.
> 3.  When starting taxi test, don't just taxi in straight lines.  The
> airplane can probably do that on it's own.  At speeds up to 20 mph
> (GPS) on the runway do some MILD zig zags to see what control inputs
> it takes and what it takes to correct.  You'll be amazed how quickly
> you get comfortable with directional control.
> 4.  Never look at the side of the runway for steering
> information.  Even though you can't see over the nose initially, look
> ahead as far as possible, to the horizon even, down the side of the
> cowl.  You can immediately detect the slightest movement of the nose
> left or right.  If you start lined up on the centerline of the
> runway, when the tail comes up you will be tracking the centerline
> like an arrow.
> 5. Progress slowly but don't wear out the airplane taxi testing.  If
> you are not getting comfortable after 2 hours, which should be 30 or
> so passes up and down the runway, I'd suggest there is either
> something wrong with the gear alignment or I'd suggest you get
> someone to make the first flight for you.  You do want to see the
> airplane fly at least once, don't you.:-)
> 6.  Once you've progressed to running tail up down the runway use
> caution.  You are very close to flying !!
> 7.  Once you are comfortable running tail up you are ready to
> fly.  Just leave the power in for an additional 5 seconds, input a
> VERY SMALL amount of back pressure and you'll be airborne.  Make sure
> your arm is locked at that point and only fly with wrist and thumb
> and finger movements.  If you don't induce oscillations in the first
> 5 to 10 seconds you're probably home free.
> 8.  Climb to altitude staying close to the airport and don't over
> control on the flare and landing.
> 9.  If you think a KR is sensitive ask Jack Cooper about flying
> helicopters. :-)
> 10. Two rules on landing. A. Never force a tri-gear to land using
> forward stick and B., never try to force the tail wheel down with aft
> stick after a wheel landing.  Trying either is asking for trouble.
>
> It's unfortunate that all the chatter on control sensitivity keeps
> people from building / flying a KR.  If the C.G. of the airplane is
> correct you will find it to be one of the most fun flying airplane in
> the sky.  The best analogy I can come up with having a few hours in
> old tail draggers would be to imagine a Champ and a KR.  You make a
> control input on the Champ and it's response is "I'm sorry, I wasn't
> listening.  What was that you said?"  Make a control input on the KR
> and it's IMMEDIATE response will be "is that what you wanted?"  It
> doesn't get any more fun than that.
>
> Larry Flesner  - 385+ KR hours and smiling bigger with every flight !
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> kr control sensitivity

[M Blank]

Mooney's dont like the yoke forward on landing either. GA BOING !

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 08:02:55 -0500
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> From: fles...@frontier.com
> Subject: Re: KR> kr control sensitivity
> 
> At 06:41 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote:
> >I have a question regarding the recent discussion about the landing 
> >accident and where it all went wrong with the slight forward control 
> >stick movement.
> >This seems to be a characteristic of the KR, at least as far as 
> >pitch is concerned
> +++
> 
> The nose pitching down with forward movement of the control stick or 
> wheel is a characteristic of every airplane I've ever flown. :-)  An 
> RV pilot at our airport pulled the same trick and the owner/pilot of 
> a new C-182 RG tried landing on the nose wheel too.  It cost him, or 
> his insurance, a complete engine teardown, a new prop, and some wing 
> tip repair.  The KR is not an airplane out there looking to "do you 
> in", but is a great and fun flying airplane when flown correctly.  As 
> for P.I.O.,  It's called "PILOT INDUCED OSCILLATION" because it is 
> "pilot induced".  It's not called "aircraft induced oscillation".
> 
> The only "secret" to flying a KR is to rest your arm on something to 
> restrict movement of the control stick at any speed above 
> liftoff.  It flies with stick pressure, not movement.  As with any 
> airplane, you look out the window, see what the airplane is doing, 
> and then use the correct control input to make it do what you want it 
> to do.  In the 385+ hours in my KR, it has never failed to respond to 
> any control input, good or bad.  You just do your best to not ask it 
> to do anything stupid.
> 
> Get 10 minutes of stick time in any other slick flying home built 
> before your first flight so you know what to expect and all will work 
> out.  That assumes of course, when you look out the window and see 
> what's happening, you know what you want it to be doing and know how 
> to ask it nicely to respond. :-)
> 
> Keep building.  The fun awaits you.
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> comments for Craig and his Seafury replica

[gsxrboy]

Hello Craig and Netters,

   Having closely followed the list for almost 7 years now it's been  
a huge learning experience. One thing that seems to be working well  
for a majority of the flying KRs is simplicity. Craig, your project  
seems quite ambitious and would certainly be a work of art when  
completed; however would it really be worth hundreds of hours of  
cosmetic work and possibly corrupting flight characteristics? To try  
and make a KR something it is not seems counter-productive but that  
is just the opinion of a dreaming simpleton. It seems like if you  
were to take a Spitfire replica design and make mods to the canopy  
and such you would wind up with a much more true to shape bird that  
would not have flight parameters compromised. The wing shape, tail  
shape, and so forth are much more similar with a SMS Mk 26 than a KR.  
I think you would have more luck morphing from a different airframe  
and most importantly still have a safe bird to fly.

  Seeing as one of the best performing KRs out there is still in  
primer cosmetics would be one of the last things to be of concern. If  
you go adding all that weight (5 blade prop for instance) or any  
retract system you're going to have a plane that performs poorly and  
as a result exhibit much less of a safety margin. Should an accident  
occur as a result of such not only will all the work have been for  
naught, it will have been much more expensive.

  When you look at any of the nice KRs out there to corrupt them from  
their form would almost be a sacrilege. Look at Richard Shirley's  
KR1, Troy Pettiway's KR2, Jeff Scott's KR2, Larry, Joe, Mark J., Mark  
L.  KR2s (and I know I'm leaving out a lot of folks) and there is a  
purity to those planes. They are in and of themselves awesome  
examples of functional art.

OK, returning to lurk mode. Fly safe everyone.

Bart Ferguson
Houston, TX


On Oct 17, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Craig Williams wrote:

> My Bad.  I opened my big mouth without running the numbers first.   
> Here are the
> #'s

KR> kr control sensitivity/ my final thoughts

[Larry Flesner]

At 01:10 PM 10/17/2010, you wrote:
>I later read on KR-net about Bill Rent who built a KR-1 and taxied
>it for ten hours to get the feel of the pitch and then flew it for 
>20 years. I
>was sick because I could have done the same and had a barrel of fun.


Having nothing else to think about while doing yard work this 
afternoon, my thoughts wondered back to flying the KR.  I thought I 
would offer some food for thought for those that have not yet flown a 
KR so you can get back to building and not wonder if you're wasting 
your time in the shop.   Anyone having more than one hour in a KR is 
beyond this advise.

My first thought is that 10 hours of taxi testing is much too much 
exposure to an accident but I'll get back to that in a 
minute.  Besides, taxi testing is not that good of a teacher for 
pitch control, just directional control.  Pitch control is MUCH LESS 
SENSITIVE from 0 mph to tail up then after liftoff.

Random thoughts for working up to first flight:

1.  Never attempt to fly your KR unless you have enough recent flight 
time to be totally comfortable in an airplane.  You should be as 
comfortable in the cockpit as you are in your pickup truck.
2. Never take to the runway to do taxi tests unless the airplane and 
pilot are totally ready to fly.  You never know.
3.  When starting taxi test, don't just taxi in straight lines.  The 
airplane can probably do that on it's own.  At speeds up to 20 mph 
(GPS) on the runway do some MILD zig zags to see what control inputs 
it takes and what it takes to correct.  You'll be amazed how quickly 
you get comfortable with directional control.
4.  Never look at the side of the runway for steering 
information.  Even though you can't see over the nose initially, look 
ahead as far as possible, to the horizon even, down the side of the 
cowl.  You can immediately detect the slightest movement of the nose 
left or right.  If you start lined up on the centerline of the 
runway, when the tail comes up you will be tracking the centerline 
like an arrow.
5. Progress slowly but don't wear out the airplane taxi testing.  If 
you are not getting comfortable after 2 hours, which should be 30 or 
so passes up and down the runway, I'd suggest there is either 
something wrong with the gear alignment or I'd suggest you get 
someone to make the first flight for you.  You do want to see the 
airplane fly at least once, don't you.:-)
6.  Once you've progressed to running tail up down the runway use 
caution.  You are very close to flying !!
7.  Once you are comfortable running tail up you are ready to 
fly.  Just leave the power in for an additional 5 seconds, input a 
VERY SMALL amount of back pressure and you'll be airborne.  Make sure 
your arm is locked at that point and only fly with wrist and thumb 
and finger movements.  If you don't induce oscillations in the first 
5 to 10 seconds you're probably home free.
8.  Climb to altitude staying close to the airport and don't over 
control on the flare and landing.
9.  If you think a KR is sensitive ask Jack Cooper about flying 
helicopters. :-)
10. Two rules on landing. A. Never force a tri-gear to land using 
forward stick and B., never try to force the tail wheel down with aft 
stick after a wheel landing.  Trying either is asking for trouble.

It's unfortunate that all the chatter on control sensitivity keeps 
people from building / flying a KR.  If the C.G. of the airplane is 
correct you will find it to be one of the most fun flying airplane in 
the sky.  The best analogy I can come up with having a few hours in 
old tail draggers would be to imagine a Champ and a KR.  You make a 
control input on the Champ and it's response is "I'm sorry, I wasn't 
listening.  What was that you said?"  Make a control input on the KR 
and it's IMMEDIATE response will be "is that what you wanted?"  It 
doesn't get any more fun than that.

Larry Flesner  - 385+ KR hours and smiling bigger with every flight !

KR> comments for Craig and his Seafury replica

[Pete]

  Craig,
With the general consensus leaning toward increasing the size of the 
horizontal stabiliser and in turn the control surface area I'd advise 
you get the concept of reducing the elevator size checked thoroughly 
before you decide to run with it. for 2 reasons.
1. Because the KR is so closely coupled the wings can blanket part of  
the horizontal at high angles of attack, the width of the elevator 
allows part of the control surface to protrude outside of this effect 
and allow controllability in these attitudes.
2. The elevator is effectively altering the airfoil and angle of attack 
of the horizontal stabiliser to perform it's task, too great a 
deflection could result in a stalling of the stabiliser with unwanted 
results.
Please be sure to have your ideas thoroughly vetted before implementing 
them.
Cheers.
Pete Bancks.
Ballina.
Oz.

On 18/10/2010 10:26, Craig Williams wrote:
> My Bad.  I opened my big mouth without running the numbers first.  Here are 
> the
> #'s
>
> The tail as bought from the previous owner.  H/S is 827 sq in and the elev is
> 827 sq in.  If I use this tail I will add 100 sq in to the HS to round the
> ends.  The previous builder added lead shot in the elev to add a 
> counterweight.
> Mine will be internal so this will be removed at the ends.  This would remove 
> 84
> sq in of the elevator.  The difference between the added area to the H/S and 
> the
> removal of the weight from the elev will effectively be a 20% change in the
> ratio of the area of the H/S to the elevator area.  Also my elev controls are
> going to be adjustable so I can increase the throw of the elevator if I need
> to.  This is a small change in area and I believe the effects on controlling 
> the
> plane will be positive.  Most landing will be two wheelers with the speed 
> brake
> deployed.  Hope this helps
>
> Craig
> www.kr2seafury.com

KR> comments for Craig and his Seafury replica

[Craig Williams]

My Bad.  I opened my big mouth without running the numbers first.  Here are the 
#'s

The tail as bought from the previous owner.  H/S is 827 sq in and the elev is 
827 sq in.  If I use this tail I will add 100 sq in to the HS to round the 
ends.  The previous builder added lead shot in the elev to add a counterweight. 
 
Mine will be internal so this will be removed at the ends.  This would remove 
84 
sq in of the elevator.  The difference between the added area to the H/S and 
the 
removal of the weight from the elev will effectively be a 20% change in the 
ratio of the area of the H/S to the elevator area.  Also my elev controls are 
going to be adjustable so I can increase the throw of the elevator if I need 
to.  This is a small change in area and I believe the effects on controlling 
the 
plane will be positive.  Most landing will be two wheelers with the speed brake 
deployed.  Hope this helps

Craig
www.kr2seafury.com





From: john pellegrino 
To: kr...@mylist.net
Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 2:24:10 PM
Subject: KR> comments for Craig and his Seafury replica

Hi Craig,

I have been a fan of the KR2S for a long time. I joined this net to seriously 
consider building one. First of all, I am not an aeronautical engineer, I am a 
Pilot, but I have been an aviation fanatic since I was 7 and I am 70 now and I 
am always working on increasing my aviation knowledge. I am submitting this 
comment to you with the best of intentions for you to consider and maybe a 
discussion can develop where we all can learn more. You say you will only have 
about 75% of the horizontal tail area compared to a stock KR. You want to "tame 
the beast" but in my humble opinion you are going to make it worse. You are 
after a special Seafury look and that is really neat. It looks like you will 
probably increase the vertical stabilizer area and that will should be fine, 
but 
with the decreased horizontal area and the short moment arm of the KR, (at 
least 
compared to the Seafury) again IMHO, there is going to be stability issues, at 
least at lower speeds. I suspect you would need to fly your approach at a 
higher 
speed just to be able 

KR> STOP

[L. D. Mueller]

to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net 



please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html



-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Jeff Prozzo
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 2:44 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> STOP



PLEASE STOP SENDING ME KR STUFF!!!







___

Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp

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please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> STOP

[Jack Cupp]

Unsubscribe yourself  DUH

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Jeff Prozzo  wrote:
> PLEASE STOP SENDING ME KR STUFF!!!
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



-- 
Jack Cupp
602-788-9117  Home
602-516-0362  Cell
Till 10PM Mountain

KR> STOP

[Tim]

Here,  took me 5 seconds to find>

To UNsubscribe, also visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet , and go to the 
bottom, or simply send an email message to krnet-le...@mylist.net.

CldLk-Tim

KR> STOP

[Jeff Prozzo]

PLEASE STOP SENDING ME KR STUFF!!!

KR> comments for Craig and his Seafury replica

[john pellegrino]

Hi Craig,

I have been a fan of the KR2S for a long time. I joined this net to seriously 
consider building one. First of all, I am not an aeronautical engineer, I am a 
Pilot, but I have been an aviation fanatic since I was 7 and I am 70 now and I 
am always working on increasing my aviation knowledge. I am submitting this 
comment to you with the best of intentions for you to consider and maybe a 
discussion can develop where we all can learn more. You say you will only have 
about 75% of the horizontal tail area compared to a stock KR. You want to "tame 
the beast" but in my humble opinion you are going to make it worse. You are 
after a special Seafury look and that is really neat. It looks like you will 
probably increase the vertical stabilizer area and that will should be fine, 
but with the decreased horizontal area and the short moment arm of the KR, (at 
least compared to the Seafury) again IMHO, there is going to be stability 
issues, at least at lower speeds. I suspect you would need to fly your approach 
at a higher speed just to be able to have the elevator authority to flare for 
landing and I would also suspect that if you slowed too much and couldn't 
flare, the aircraft would likely drop right on its nose, so here you would have 
exactly the situation you are trying to avoid. Look at the length of the 
Seafury fuselage compared to the length of the KR. Stabs are sized as a 
proportion of it's wings area, but the length of the fuselage (the term used is 
Moment Arm which can be thought of as a lever) is an important factor. A longer 
fuselage can cut down on the stabs area, as a percentage of the wing, but a 
shorter fuselage is going to need more area compared to it's wing's area. I 
also fly RC and I once built a 6 foot model where I made this mistake, there 
was not enough stab authority to flare for the landing, but no one had a chance 
to get hurt.  What you want to do will create a neat looking aircraft, but 
decreasing the stab area by as much as you say is a serious deviation from just 
making appearance revisions, so I hope you will seek professional advice for 
what you are doing. I don't intend any of this to be negative criticism and I 
hope you take it as intended. I didn't intend to comment on this net about 
anything because I am not yet building any model of the KR, but I think this 
needed to brought out in the open.

Respectively submitted,
John in PA 

KR> kr control sensitivity

[phillip matheson]

I am going for a certain look.  In
the process the elevator will be smaller.  Approx 75% of what the plans call
for.  This should help I am told.

--
 Craig.
Properly nothing I can say will change your mind, BUT the elevator was 
designed a certain size for a reason, by someone who knows more then I.

I WOULD NOT make it smaller. I would increase the HS in area then if you 
wish leave the elevator the same size. You may never need all the elevator 
movement, BUT who wants to end up in a where you do need it, and you did not 
have enough.

my 2 cents worth.

Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch 37
http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/ 

KR> kr control sensitivity

[James Ferris]

Hang in there, I was building a KR-1 back in the seventies when plans first 
were 
sold and it was fun with the smell of the Spruce and it was going fast.  My 
section leader was a B-26 pilot in WWII and convinced me I would kill myself 
because it was short coupled and I gave up half way through the building 
process 
and sold it.  I later read on KR-net about Bill Rent who built a KR-1 and 
taxied 
it for ten hours to get the feel of the pitch and then flew it for 20 years. I 
was sick because I could have done the same and had a barrel of fun.  I believe 
the KR-1 or 2 can be tamed to be controlled easier than any trainer.  I would 
build it so the flap could move up as well as down and use the flap for pitch 
control and the elevator for trim until I got used to the sensitivity. The 
reason I believe this is that I had a model when I was a kid and we had the 
same 
problems when we built a model and tried to fly it, it was over control. But I 
made one with the flap for control and anyone could fly even my sister and 
later 
I build one like that for my own kits to learn to fly models and it worked 
great.
Jim



- Original Message 
From: David Goodman 
To: KRnet 
Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 8:39:58 PM
Subject: RE: KR> kr control sensitivity

Pat wrote:

This seems to be a characteristic of the KR, at least as far as pitch is
concerned and maybe it isn't a problem for experienced or high time pilots
but for those of us considering building one of these cool little machines,
would it be possible to make it control more like a trainer and then
transition the controls to a sportier version later as the pilot gained
experience in the craft?

Pat,

Your idea of changing the movement rate of the elevator sounds like a good
fix, but there are problems associated with the idea.  If one does that, the
limits of travel will likely be reduced.  That could mean the plane will run
out of control authority when you need it most.

As far as getting used to flying the KR, the biggest issue close to the
ground is to never push the nose over, or even think of doing it until one
has some hours in the plane and has a feel for how it flies.  Once a pilot
has made the transition the KR is pure joy to fly.  The challenge is getting
those first few hours under your belt safely.

It would be easy to fret enough about controlling the KR to convince oneself
it is an unmanageable plane.  This is not the case.  It is a good plane with
good characteristics.  The big issue is simply being aware of those
characteristics and preparing beforehand when flying one the first time.

If you want more info, call me.

IHS,
Dave "Zipper" Goodman
360 969 1174 (C)



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KR> changing a tire

[Larry Flesner]

Thought all you builders out there that were having tire problems 
might like to see this "how it's done" training film. :-)

http://www.oshkosh365.org/ok365_DiscussionBoardTopic.aspx?id=1235=147=180=5584


Larry Flesner

KR> kr control sensitivity

[Larry Flesner]

At 06:41 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote:
>I have a question regarding the recent discussion about the landing 
>accident and where it all went wrong with the slight forward control 
>stick movement.
>This seems to be a characteristic of the KR, at least as far as 
>pitch is concerned
+++

The nose pitching down with forward movement of the control stick or 
wheel is a characteristic of every airplane I've ever flown. :-)  An 
RV pilot at our airport pulled the same trick and the owner/pilot of 
a new C-182 RG tried landing on the nose wheel too.  It cost him, or 
his insurance, a complete engine teardown, a new prop, and some wing 
tip repair.  The KR is not an airplane out there looking to "do you 
in", but is a great and fun flying airplane when flown correctly.  As 
for P.I.O.,  It's called "PILOT INDUCED OSCILLATION" because it is 
"pilot induced".  It's not called "aircraft induced oscillation".

The only "secret" to flying a KR is to rest your arm on something to 
restrict movement of the control stick at any speed above 
liftoff.  It flies with stick pressure, not movement.  As with any 
airplane, you look out the window, see what the airplane is doing, 
and then use the correct control input to make it do what you want it 
to do.  In the 385+ hours in my KR, it has never failed to respond to 
any control input, good or bad.  You just do your best to not ask it 
to do anything stupid.

Get 10 minutes of stick time in any other slick flying home built 
before your first flight so you know what to expect and all will work 
out.  That assumes of course, when you look out the window and see 
what's happening, you know what you want it to be doing and know how 
to ask it nicely to respond. :-)

Keep building.  The fun awaits you.

Larry Flesner

KR> first annual "Wicks Forum" experience

[Larry Flesner]

At 05:22 AM 10/17/2010, you wrote:
>Mark wrote: I guess it says something about a guy that he'd park next to
>something as ugly as my KR!
>
>However, I think he was a lot closer to Larry's. HM!


Actually, he parked closer to Mark.  I just rolled mine over for a 
photo op. :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> first annual "Wicks Forum" experience

[Dan Heath]

Mark wrote: I guess it says something about a guy that he'd park next to
something as ugly as my KR!

However, I think he was a lot closer to Larry's. HM!

Great write up Mark.  Haven't had much time to read lately.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

-Original Message-
Subject: Re: KR> first annual "Wicks Forum" experience
See http://www.n56ml.com/wicks/ for a few details...

Mark Langford
n5...@hiwaay.net
KR2S website at http://www.N56ML.com