KR> Epoxy

[Dan Prichard]

T-88 appears to be the structural adhesive of choice but what about lay up 
resins. System 3, west, aeropoxy or what?  I can use a little help from 
experience. Also I asked about Okome plywood usage. No responses. 

Sent from my iPhone

KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[Craig Williams]

Why use aluminum or SS when the WAFs are easy to make from the right stuff?? 
ACS sells the 4130 in the right size so all you have to do is cut to length, 
drill some holes and shape.?? I've seen them sell for big $$ and never 
understood why except maybe folks want to save a little time.

Craig
www.kr2seafury.com





On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:18 PM, "m.ladigo at cox.net"  wrote:

I am using Inconel fittings.? Iconel has the corrosion resistance of stainless 
but also has approximately 25% greater strength in yield and ultimate than 
4130.? Stainless steels are generally not as strong as 4130.

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KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[m.ladigo at cox.net]

I am using Inconel fittings.  Iconel has the corrosion resistance of stainless 
but also has approximately 25% greater strength in yield and ultimate than 
4130.  Stainless steels are generally not as strong as 4130.

KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[James Duff]

Stainless properties are very different to 4130. It is inferior in pretty much 
every way that one might be interested for this application, besides corrosion 
resistance. Quite worrying really that people who frankly don't know what 
they're talking about do this on critical parts.


Sent from Samsung Mobile

 Original message 
From: Adam Tippin  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:29/10/2013  19:00  (GMT+00:00) 
To: KRnet  
Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS? 

Is stainless stronger than 4130?
On Oct 29, 2013 2:42 PM, "Pat and Robin Russo" 
wrote:

> I have seen, on more than one occasion, Stainless Steel WAF's. And at
> first glance mistaking them for Aluminum.
>
> -Original Message- From: Teate, Stephen
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:39 AM
> To: 'KRnet'
> Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?
>
>
> "it's likely the fittings were painted, so the color wouldn't be obvious"
>
> I can't remember the last time I saw a set that weren't painted. A magnet
> would at least let you know they are steel but not necessarily 4130.
>
> Stephen Teate
> Paradise, Texas
>
> **
> The information in this email is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient,
> you should delete this message.? Access to this email by
> anyone else is unauthorized, and any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or action taken or omitted in reliance on it
> is prohibited and may be unlawful.
> **
>
> __**_
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KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[Teate, Stephen]

"it's likely the fittings were painted, so the color wouldn't be obvious"

I can't remember the last time I saw a set that weren't painted. A magnet would 
at least let you know they are steel but not necessarily 4130.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

**
The information in this email is confidential and may be 
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, 
you should delete this message.  Access to this email by 
anyone else is unauthorized, and any disclosure, copying, 
distribution or action taken or omitted in reliance on it 
is prohibited and may be unlawful.
**

KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[Pat and Robin Russo]

I have seen, on more than one occasion, Stainless Steel WAF's. And at first 
glance mistaking them for Aluminum.

-Original Message- 
From: Teate, Stephen
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:39 AM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?


"it's likely the fittings were painted, so the color wouldn't be obvious"

I can't remember the last time I saw a set that weren't painted. A magnet 
would at least let you know they are steel but not necessarily 4130.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

**
The information in this email is confidential and may be
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient,
you should delete this message.  Access to this email by
anyone else is unauthorized, and any disclosure, copying,
distribution or action taken or omitted in reliance on it
is prohibited and may be unlawful.
**

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KR> KR project for sale

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 This was  the second plane that Jim Owen built, Virg


 On 10/29/2013 1:07 PM, Mark Langford wrote:
> Gary Sherrill wrote:
>
>> I'll take it! Unless you're in China or somewhere!!
> Not to be a doomsayer, but I've seen KR projects that included gear that
> weren't worth the gas to drive to the next county to pick them up!  I'd say
> there's a good chance you'll get lucky though...
>
> Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
> ML at N56ML.com
> www.N56ML.com
>
>
>
>
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>

KR> KR project for sale

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 The gentleman is Tom Hall in Springfield Mo. I just got a call from 
him.
 It is a KR-2 started by Jim Owen. Grove gear w/wheels and tires, 
Tinted
 canopy, Instrument panel and other things as previously mentioned. An
 easy more than a $2,000.00 value. He wants to concrete his hangar floor
 this winter and has to get rid of the project. Call and offer him a 
fair price
 and pick it up quickly, Virg He is at 417-353-8903


 On 10/29/2013 12:36 PM, I Fly KR's wrote:
> Sorry. Phone is (417)353-8903
>
>> On Oct 29, 2013, at 9:26, I Fly KR's  wrote:
>>
>> This gentleman has a KR project for sale he inherited from his dad's estate. 
>> Apparently fuselage and tail are complete with landing gear. That's all I 
>> know. He mentioned somewhere in the neighborhood of $400.
>>
>> ___
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>> options
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>

KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[Jeff Scott]

That was kind of the point of the statement. ?Would you have checked with a 
magnet to ensure they were steel? ?I'm not so sure I would have. ?If it looks 
right, I'd probably have gone on to something else. ?That's what makes this 
kind of mistake kind of scary.

-Jeff

> - Original Message -
> From: Teate, Stephen
> Sent: 10/29/13 09:39 AM
> To: 'KRnet'
> Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?
> 
> "it's likely the fittings were painted, so the color wouldn't be obvious"
> 
> I can't remember the last time I saw a set that weren't painted. A magnet 
> would at least let you know they are steel but not necessarily 4130.
> 
> Stephen Teate
> Paradise, Texas
> 

KR> KR project for sale

[Mark Langford]

Gary Sherrill wrote:

> I'll take it! Unless you're in China or somewhere!!

Not to be a doomsayer, but I've seen KR projects that included gear that
weren't worth the gas to drive to the next county to pick them up!  I'd say
there's a good chance you'll get lucky though...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  

KR> KR project for sale

[Tulsa Turbine]

Just up t he road from me, I'll take a chance. Maybe get some BBQ on the
way!!
Lol

Gary

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:07 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> KR project for sale

Gary Sherrill wrote:

> I'll take it! Unless you're in China or somewhere!!

Not to be a doomsayer, but I've seen KR projects that included gear that
weren't worth the gas to drive to the next county to pick them up!  I'd say
there's a good chance you'll get lucky though...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  




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KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[Jeff Scott]

This really goes back to his pre-purchase inspection. ?Let's see, crummy green 
foam in the wings and significant delaminations starting to show. ?Maybe we 
should look a bit deeper? ?Maybe at least remove the wing attach covers and 
look at the fittings, although it's likely the fittings were painted, so the 
color wouldn't be obvious. ?If the plane is crappy on the outside, it often 
times follows that things aren't that great on the inside either. ?
Thanks for relating that story Larry. ?

The sad part is that the builder likely didn't recognize that the Aluminum WAFS 
replacing 4130 WAFS might not be sufficient. ?It would seem obvious to those of 
us that have been working around airplanes for a few decades, but to the 
neophite that is building in a vacuum, it might not. ?This is one of the 
reasons why it is important to get multiple sets of knowlegeable eyes on your 
project and involve an EAA Tech Counselor in your build. ?

FWIW, after I bought my Wag Aero/ SuperCub project from an estate, I spent a 
lot of time looking over a lot of strange, non-standard things that had been 
done to the plane. ?I found that most were a redesign of certain portions of 
the plane that were done either for financial savings or to improve strength as 
the plane was slated to be upgraded to a SuperCub. ?However, I didn't catch 
everything. ?The first time I pulled in the flaps in the air, I got a loud 
bang, the overhead flap handle snapped down, and the flaps retracted. ?When I 
got on the ground, I found that the clevis fork that attaches to the flap 
handle (which is the highest strained part in the flap system) had been made 
from a piece of soft aluminum tube, with internal threads at one end to attach 
to the cable and the tube cut out to make the ears of the clevis fork at the 
other end. ?The first time I pulled on it, the ears ripped out. ?Wow! ?Major 
mistake on the part of the builder. ?An even more major mistake on my part for 
not catching it. ?The thing I did right was to test the flaps the first time at 
altitude.

I spent this weekend at the CopperState Fly In. ?Most of the comments I got 
were, "Wow, that's not like any KR I've ever seen!" ?It's hard to get away from 
the plane to go look at the other planes during the Fly In as there is always a 
crowd around it. ?For those of you building, that is a very satisfying feeling 
you can look forward to. ?But I also get to hear lots of KR horror stories. 
?Unfortunately, that is the reputation of the KRs in the pilot community.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM



> - Original Message -
> From: ppaulvsk
> Sent: 10/29/13 08:57 AM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?
> 
> Nice reply Larry. ?Let's do it right.?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Larry H  
> Date: 10/29/2013 9:39 AM (GMT-06:00) 
> To: KRnet  
> Subject: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS? 
> ?
> While at a fly in over the weekend I was talking to a fellow KR2 owner. 
> Several years back he had purchased someone else's KR2. He did some work to 
> it, I'm not sure what all he did. He did get it flying however. He flew it a 
> few times and then noticed his wing skins were delaminating all over. (Crummy 
> Green Foam)
> He decided to take the wings off, take them home for a Major Overhaul. Guess 
> what? Did you read the title? Yep, some idiot had used aluminum strips for 
> the WAFs. I have seen a lot of wrong doings on KR2s over the years like 
> aluminum screen door turnbuckles for flight controls. I have no idea what is 
> wrong with some people and their airplane building practices. If any of you 
> reading this want to risk killing yourself then have at it but don't sell 
> your kiddy playground crap to someone else pretending its a real airplane. 
> Every time I mention KR2s to pilots at air shows I usually get snickers from 
> them because they have seen the junky crap like this.
> 
> Larry H

KR> KR project for sale

[Tulsa Turbine]

I'll take it!

Gary Sherrill

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of I Fly KR's
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:26 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> KR project for sale

This gentleman has a KR project for sale he inherited from his dad's estate.
Apparently fuselage and tail are complete with landing gear. That's all I
know. He mentioned somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. 

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KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[ppaulvsk]

Nice reply Larry. ?Let's do it right.?


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: Larry H  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 10/29/2013  9:39 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Subject: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS? 

While at a fly in over the weekend I was talking to a fellow KR2 owner. Several 
years back he had purchased someone else's KR2. He did some work to it, I'm not 
sure what all he did. He did get it flying however. He flew it a few times and 
then noticed his wing skins were delaminating all over. (Crummy Green Foam)
He decided to take the wings off, take them home for a Major Overhaul. Guess 
what? Did you read the title? Yep, some idiot had used aluminum strips for the 
WAFs. I have seen a lot of wrong doings on KR2s over the years like aluminum 
screen door turnbuckles for flight controls. I have no idea what is wrong with 
some people and their airplane building practices. If any of you reading this 
want to risk killing yourself then have at it but don't sell your kiddy 
playground crap to someone else pretending its a real airplane. Every time I 
mention KR2s to pilots at air shows I usually get snickers from them because 
they have seen the junky crap like this.

Larry H



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KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[Larry H]

While at a fly in over the weekend I was talking to a fellow KR2 owner. Several 
years back he had purchased someone else's KR2. He did some work to it, I'm not 
sure what all he did. He did get it flying however. He flew it a few times and 
then noticed his wing skins were delaminating all over. (Crummy Green Foam)
He decided to take the wings off, take them home for a Major Overhaul. Guess 
what? Did you read the title? Yep, some idiot had used aluminum strips for the 
WAFs. I have seen a lot of wrong doings on KR2s over the years like aluminum 
screen door turnbuckles for flight controls. I have no idea what is wrong with 
some people and their airplane building practices. If any of you reading this 
want to risk killing yourself then have at it but don't sell your kiddy 
playground crap to someone else pretending its a real airplane. Every time I 
mention KR2s to pilots at air shows I usually get snickers from them because 
they have seen the junky crap like this.

Larry H

KR> KR project for sale

[I Fly KR's]

Sorry. Phone is (417)353-8903

> On Oct 29, 2013, at 9:26, I Fly KR's  wrote:
> 
> This gentleman has a KR project for sale he inherited from his dad's estate. 
> Apparently fuselage and tail are complete with landing gear. That's all I 
> know. He mentioned somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> KR project for sale

[I Fly KR's]

This gentleman has a KR project for sale he inherited from his dad's estate. 
Apparently fuselage and tail are complete with landing gear. That's all I know. 
He mentioned somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. 

KR> KR project for sale

[I Fly KR's]

This gentleman has a KR project for sale he inherited from his dad's estate. 
Apparently fuselage and tail are complete with landing gear. That's all I know. 
He mentioned somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. 

KR> First of many oops.

[ppaulvsk]

Do you think it's ok to reglue the joints as is.?


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: Kerwyn Stoll  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 10/29/2013  7:27 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: Kerwyn Stoll ,KRnet  
Subject: Re: KR> First of many oops. 

Your story reminds me of one of my own.

When I built my first center spar, I failed to 
keep the two caps parallel to each other.? When I removed the clamps, I 
found that the spar had a slight twist to it.

I had to order new 
wood for the verticals, and then I flipped the caps over so that I would
have new surfaces to glue the new verticals to.? If you look at my 
center spars, they now have slivers of wood missing on the top and 
bottom surfaces where the old verticals took the wood away when I had to break 
the original spar apart.

Every event becomes a learning opportunity.? For me, I clamped the caps to the 
table after that to keep the caps parallel.

Best Regards,
Kerwyn





On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:17 AM, Kerwyn Stoll  wrote:

The spar under flying load has the bottom cap in tension, and the top cap in 
compression.? The verticals keep those two caps spaced apart from each other.? 
The shear web keeps the two caps from moving in opposite directions (along the 
spar length).? Probably, when it hit the floor, one of the caps hit first, and 
was stopped by the floor, while the other continued to move.? So, if one 
vertical broke loose, the rest should have broken too!

Kerwyn





On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:50 AM, Pat and Robin Russo  wrote:

Yes, the plywood is doing most of the work but it can not do the work as 
well if the joints are not clean and tightly done. End grain gluing has very 
little strength. The glue however does give a certain tightness to the joint 
and also provides a moisture protective coating. The tightness of your 
joints and good glue spread will minimize the possibility of the plywood 
flexing or twisting under loads.

-Original Message- 
From: PPaulVsk at aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 9:17 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> First of many oops.

This morning I was working on my aft inner spar and I dropped it. I don't
have the web skin on it yet. After inspecting it I notice half of my
vertical members had broken glue joints. All the brakes had wood stuck? to 
the
epoxy so I new they were good joints. But way did so? many brake?? Does the
3/32 plywood add most of the strength?? I know about load transfer. But 
really.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705

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KR> First of many oops.

[Kerwyn Stoll]

Your story reminds me of one of my own.

When I built my first center spar, I failed to 
keep the two caps parallel to each other.? When I removed the clamps, I 
found that the spar had a slight twist to it.

I had to order new 
wood for the verticals, and then I flipped the caps over so that I would
 have new surfaces to glue the new verticals to.? If you look at my 
center spars, they now have slivers of wood missing on the top and 
bottom surfaces where the old verticals took the wood away when I had to break 
the original spar apart.

Every event becomes a learning opportunity.? For me, I clamped the caps to the 
table after that to keep the caps parallel.

Best Regards,
Kerwyn





On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:17 AM, Kerwyn Stoll  wrote:

The spar under flying load has the bottom cap in tension, and the top cap in 
compression.? The verticals keep those two caps spaced apart from each other.? 
The shear web keeps the two caps from moving in opposite directions (along the 
spar length).? Probably, when it hit the floor, one of the caps hit first, and 
was stopped by the floor, while the other continued to move.? So, if one 
vertical broke loose, the rest should have broken too!

Kerwyn





On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:50 AM, Pat and Robin Russo  wrote:

Yes, the plywood is doing most of the work but it can not do the work as 
well if the joints are not clean and tightly done. End grain gluing has very 
little strength. The glue however does give a certain tightness to the joint 
and also provides a moisture protective coating. The tightness of your 
joints and good glue spread will minimize the possibility of the plywood 
flexing or twisting under loads.

-Original Message- 
From: PPaulVsk at aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 9:17 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> First of many oops.

This morning I was working on my aft inner spar and I dropped it. I don't
have the web skin on it yet. After inspecting it I notice half of my
vertical members had broken glue joints. All the brakes had wood stuck? to 
the
epoxy so I new they were good joints. But way did so? many brake?? Does the
3/32 plywood add most of the strength?? I know about load transfer. But 
really.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705

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KR> First of many oops.

[Pat and Robin Russo]

Yes, the plywood is doing most of the work but it can not do the work as 
well if the joints are not clean and tightly done. End grain gluing has very 
little strength. The glue however does give a certain tightness to the joint 
and also provides a moisture protective coating. The tightness of your 
joints and good glue spread will minimize the possibility of the plywood 
flexing or twisting under loads.

-Original Message- 
From: PPaulVsk at aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 9:17 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> First of many oops.

This morning I was working on my aft inner spar and I dropped it. I don't
have the web skin on it yet. After inspecting it I notice half of my
vertical members had broken glue joints. All the brakes had wood stuck  to 
the
epoxy so I new they were good joints. But way did so  many brake?  Does the
3/32 plywood add most of the strength?  I know about load transfer. But 
really.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705

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