KR> Landing Gear

[laser147 at juno.com]

I should have done a little looking before commenting that I thought
Grove made the Sonarai gear that Steve sells.  Steve's website shows the
Sonarai gear sells for $495 and is made of 2024-T351, 5/8ths inch thick. 


The Grove gear (Grove is right here on my airport incidentally) is 3/4"
thick and made from 7075-T6.  Cost is $1205.00.  

The reason I thought Grove made the Sonarai gear is that the Grove gear
looks just like my gear.  I wonder why they want so much money.  As
usual, Great Plains has the best prices for just about everything.  

Mike
KSEE




Apples Crazy New Gizmo
Forget the iPhone 6. Next hit Apple product leaked. see picture
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/548cb8a2dabc438a2616cst01vuc

KR> Gear legs

[laser147 at juno.com]

Just for another data point on this subject, Ken Cottle put Sonari gear
on his (mine now) KR 1?.  He  bought the gear through Steve at Great
Plains Aircraft.  They've worked fine for about 1300 hours now.  I'm not
sure but I think Grove makes the Sonari gear.

Mike
KSEE



Apples Crazy New Gizmo
Forget the iPhone 6. Next hit Apple product leaked. see picture
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/548cb51d68c09351d437cst02vuc

KR> LANDING GEAR LEGS

[Sid Wood]

Concur with Larry Flesner regarding using the Yankee gear legs.
You will need a power bench planer to take the stock thickness down to 3/4 
inch.  The fiberglass is abrasive and will dull the planer blades somewhat. 
A metal cutting band saw will do well for cutting the outline.  Getting a 
consistent leg shape can be difficult to achieve without a pattern and pin 
router.  Of concern for the leg shape is getting the correct cant forward 
for tail dragger legs or cant aft for nose wheel installations.  I used 20 
inches for the main wheel location aft of the leading edge of the stub wing. 
With the dog-leg shape, it is not possible to keep the fiberglass grain 
completely straight the entire length of the leg.  Wrapping with 45 degree 
bias fiberglass cloth will definitely help regarding the twisting action. 
Beware of the fiberglass splinters that the planer and saw will create; sand 
every edge smooth to keep those glass splinters out of your hide.
I have my home-built gear legs installed.  Empty weight is 804 pounds 
including ballast.
Worrying about balance issues now.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA


--
At 10:56 PM 12/12/2014, you wrote:
>The Yankee leg is 1" thick and I've heard estimates of 3/4" to 1"
>and about 3" wide for the Diehl.  A little change in the thickness
>and stack can make a big difference in the stiffness.


If I were to use the "Yankee" gear leg, I'd have someone send me a
tracing of the Diehl leg on heavy stock, cut the Yankee leg to same
profile keeping the "grain orientation" the same as the Deihl leg,
plane down the leg to the same thickness as the Diehl leg, put a foam
lead and trail edge on the leg for shaping and a tunnel for brake
line, and wrap with two layers of KR cloth.  Put the KR cloth on the
leg "on the bias", 45 degree angle.  I would go with a 25" leg on a
KR2 and a 26 1/2" leg on the 2S (tail dragger) and make any
adjustments to the the three point stance with the tail wheel
spring.  Tri-gear will have to stick with the 24" leg unless
modifying the nose gear assembly.

I was led to believe the Diehl gear material is the same material as
the Yankee gear.  Dan did the testing, including drop test I was
told,  and his setup works just fine.  I wouldn't change a thing.  If
you are building to fly and not as a project for your retirement, go
with what we know works and spend your worry time on other parts of
the project.  I'm still smiling from yesterdays 50 mile flight for
lunch and stop and go landing practice on return.  Get it
built..

Larry Flesner

KR> Differential aileron control

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 The downward aileron deflection of the upward going wing will stall 
first.
 You change the camber of the wing and increase the angle of attack, 
Virg


 On 12/13/2014 8:51 AM, Tinyauto--- via KRnet wrote:
>   
> The idea of differential control having a side advantage of reducing the
> chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along checking
> out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of maybe 30  de
> grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if the
> pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would  actually
> cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of the turn.
>   
> Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and the turn
>   didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank out part
> of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron helps an
> airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two
> separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am  just not grasping
> the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I
> wrong?
>   
> Kevin Golden
> Harrisonville, MO
>   
>
>
>
>
>
> Differential aileron  deflection
>
>
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/
> 450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png
>
> Illustration  of a Differential aileron
>
> The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to bias the
> travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the upward
> aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and separation  drag
>   further  aids in producing
> drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the
> turn.
> Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is very easy
> to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant advantage of
> reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
>   at the tip  first by
> limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated  effective
> increase in angle of attack.
>
> Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the simple
> implementation and safety  benefits.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
>

KR> Differential aileron control

[Chris Kinnaman]

Exactly. This condition can bite you low and real slow, like during a 
landing flare or thereabouts. Back in the day of "rudder airplanes" when 
aileron differential was not common, people talked about "aileron 
reversal" at low speeds. The wing you wanted to go up, with its aileron 
down, would stall and drop in a seeming reversal of control input. The 
ailerons are not simply deflectors. When moved, they effectively change 
the camber of the airfoil and therefore the angle of attack. This is why 
using rudder to raise a wing while in a stalled or near-stalled 
condition is taught - the ailerons are kept as neutral as possible. Of 
course there are many airplanes with ailerons that are effective well 
into the stall.

On 12/13/2014 10:31 AM, Virgil N.Salisbury via KRnet wrote:
>
> The downward aileron deflection of the upward going wing will 
> stall first.
> You change the camber of the wing and increase the angle of 
> attack, Virg
>
>
> On 12/13/2014 8:51 AM, Tinyauto--- via KRnet wrote:
>>   The idea of differential control having a side advantage of 
>> reducing the
>> chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along 
>> checking
>> out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of 
>> maybe 30  de
>> grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if 
>> the
>> pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would actually
>> cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of 
>> the turn.
>>   Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and 
>> the turn
>>   didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank 
>> out part
>> of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron 
>> helps an
>> airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two
>> separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am just not 
>> grasping
>> the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall" part.  Am I
>> wrong?
>>   Kevin Golden
>> Harrisonville, MO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Differential aileron  deflection
>>
>>
>> 
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/ 
>>
>> 450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png
>>
>> Illustration  of a Differential aileron
>>
>> The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to 
>> bias the
>> travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the 
>> upward
>> aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and 
>> separation  drag
>>   further aids in 
>> producing
>> drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the
>> turn.
>> Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is 
>> very easy
>> to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant 
>> advantage of
>> reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
>>   at the tip  first by
>> limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated effective
>> increase in angle of attack.
>>
>> Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the 
>> simple
>> implementation and safety  benefits.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
>> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
>> change options
>>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
> change options
>
>

KR> Differential aileron control

[Christopher Pryce]

In a turn, if you bank further, the downward moving wing's angle of attack
is decreased. You actually have to worry about the outside wing and the
increased angle of attack as it is moving. The reduced downward deflection
of the aileron helps in that aspect.

Chris Pryce
On Dec 13, 2014 8:51 AM, "Tinyauto--- via KRnet" 
wrote:

>
> The idea of differential control having a side advantage of reducing the
> chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along checking
> out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of maybe
> 30  de
> grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if the
> pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would  actually
> cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of the
> turn.
>
> Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and the turn
>  didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank out part
> of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron helps an
> airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two
> separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am  just not
> grasping
> the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I
> wrong?
>
> Kevin Golden
> Harrisonville, MO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Differential aileron  deflection
>
>
> 
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/
> 450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png
>
> Illustration  of a Differential aileron
>
> The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to bias the
> travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the upward
> aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and separation
> drag
>   further  aids in
> producing
> drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the
> turn.
> Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is very
> easy
> to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant advantage
> of
> reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
>   at the tip  first by
> limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated  effective
> increase in angle of attack.
>
> Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the simple
> implementation and safety  benefits.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>

KR> LANDING GEAR LEGS

[Flesner]

At 10:56 PM 12/12/2014, you wrote:
>The Yankee leg is 1" thick and I've heard estimates of 3/4" to 1" 
>and about 3" wide for the Diehl.  A little change in the thickness 
>and stack can make a big difference in the stiffness.


If I were to use the "Yankee" gear leg, I'd have someone send me a 
tracing of the Diehl leg on heavy stock, cut the Yankee leg to same 
profile keeping the "grain orientation" the same as the Deihl leg, 
plane down the leg to the same thickness as the Diehl leg, put a foam 
lead and trail edge on the leg for shaping and a tunnel for brake 
line, and wrap with two layers of KR cloth.  Put the KR cloth on the 
leg "on the bias", 45 degree angle.  I would go with a 25" leg on a 
KR2 and a 26 1/2" leg on the 2S (tail dragger) and make any 
adjustments to the the three point stance with the tail wheel 
spring.  Tri-gear will have to stick with the 24" leg unless 
modifying the nose gear assembly.

I was led to believe the Diehl gear material is the same material as 
the Yankee gear.  Dan did the testing, including drop test I was 
told,  and his setup works just fine.  I wouldn't change a thing.  If 
you are building to fly and not as a project for your retirement, go 
with what we know works and spend your worry time on other parts of 
the project.  I'm still smiling from yesterdays 50 mile flight for 
lunch and stop and go landing practice on return.  Get it 
built..

Larry Flesner 

KR> Differential aileron control

[Flesner]

At 07:51 AM 12/13/2014, you wrote:
>However I am  just not grasping
>the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I
>wrong?
>Kevin Golden
+

I think they are saying the wing is "slightly less likely" to stall 
compared to a non differential aileron setup as the down aileron 
doesn't go down "as far"..

No need to turn this thing into brain surgery.  Build to plans and 
they work just fine.  Or don't build to plans and become a REAL test pilot.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Fw: RE: Fw: Re: aileron controls

[Dan Heath]

This is the way the KR works:




Differential aileron deflection


 <http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DifferentialAileron.svg>
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/
450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png

Illustration of a Differential aileron

The geometry of most aileron linkages can be configured so as to bias the
travel further upward than downward. By excessively deflecting the upward
aileron, profile drag is increased rather than reduced and separation drag
<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_separation>  further aids in producing
drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the direction of the turn.
Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron differential is very easy
to implement on almost any airplane and offers the significant advantage of
reducing the tendency for the wing to stall
<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_(flight)>  at the tip first by
limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated effective
increase in angle of attack.

Most airplanes use this method of adverse yaw mitigation due to the simple
implementation and safety benefits.





See N64KR at  <http://krbuilder.org/> http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



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Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC







-Original Message-



Here's a good wiki on the subject.



 <http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw>
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw



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