KR> Selecting an airport to be based at

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

Same logic that my homeowners insurance used when they could care less
if my garage attached to my house and next to my bedroom had two cars
and a riding mower with gas and all the gas cans I wanted, but they
refused to insure my hanger separate from the house because it contained
an airplane.  Makes no difference that the cars can be 50 years old with
rusting steel tanks and the plane is inspected regularly to FAA
standards.


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Selecting an airport to be based at
From: Dan Heath via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Fri, April 03, 2015 5:34 am
To: "'Mark Langford'" , "'KRnet'" 

So, that begs the question, why is 200 gallons of fuel stored in the
tanks
of an airplane more save than 20 gallons of fuel stored in approved
containers that are completely sealed?



See N64KR at  http://KRBuilder.org - Then click
on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR. September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC





-Original Message-



I rented my second one to a guy with a Cessna 210. He told me one day
that
he'd lost 19 gallons of 100LL out of the wing tank and onto the floor of
the
hangar about a week earlier. Apparently his petcock failed somehow and
drained one wing tank.

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KR> Fuel handling & leadded vs unleaded fuels

[Jeff Scott]

>
> So, that begs the question, why is 200 gallons of fuel stored in the tanks
> of an airplane more save than 20 gallons of fuel stored in approved
> containers that are completely sealed?
> 
>

Fuel handling

It isn't the storage of fuel so much as the handling.  But by not allowing 
storage of fuels in the hangars, you pretty much eliminate the handling of said 
fuels.  Almost all hangar leases will stipulate no storage of fuels and no 
refueling in the hangars.  As Oscar points out, that's a huge liability should 
you spark a fire in your hangar and burn down several expensive planes around 
you.

Since I store my fuel in a tank in the back of my truck, I always pull the 
plane out clear of the hangar for fueling.  You will vent quite a bit of fuel 
vapor while refueling.  In a closed hangar, you can accumulate sufficient vapor 
to create a fire/explosion hazard.  Fueling should be done outside where fuel 
vapors will disperse into the air.

Storing large quantities of fuel > 5 gallons requires proper ventilation.  
Mogas has a significantly higher vapor pressure than 100LL.  With temperature 
variations, the fuel tanks need to breathe.  Storing any quantity of fuel in a 
sealed container is a bad idea, although small quantities like a 5 gallon gas 
can are designed to withstand the expansion.  I use a pressure cap on my 
storage tank to prevent over-pressurizing the tank due to expansion (and 
contraction).  This unit vents like a radiator cap at 2 1/2 lbs positive 
pressure, and allows the tank to breathe back in a 1 1/2 oz negative pressure.  

  

I also found that when my tank was still a rusty red color, on average, I was 
loosing roughly 7 gallons out of 100 over a 3 month period due to venting and 
evaporation.  By repainting my fuel tank white, I was able to reduce my fuel 
loss to roughly 1 1/2 gallons over the same period.


100LL vs Mogas

Those of you that know me know that a number of years ago I was dead set 
against running Mogas in our airplanes.  I've changed my tune over the last few 
years.  Accumulation of lead on the valve stems is one of the chief causes of 
valve guide and valve stem wear.  The lead is in the fuel to raise the octane 
of the fuel, but using a higher octane than necessary doesn't buy you any 
increase in HP or performance.  With hardened valves and valve seats, lead is 
no longer needed to keep the exhaust valves and seats from exchanging metal.  
So, as long as you can find Mogas with a sufficient octane rating to keep you 
out of detonation, your engine will be better off running the Mogas.  

However, there are also down sides to using Mogas.  As previously mentioned, it 
stinks.  Additionally, it has a higher vapor pressure, so if your engine is 
prone to vapor lock, it may not be the right fuel for you.  This is especially 
true if you are using one of the thottle body carb replacements.  They can run 
Mogas, but are unable to vent off vapors from boiling fuel like a float type 
carb.  I have seen this happen, even with 100LL while test flying with an 
Aerocarb on a Sonex.  The problem was addressed by adding a cooling shroud and 
blast tube to the gascolator.  We used a thermal probe to measure the temps at 
the gascolator and found that it had been cooking itself at 185? in the air 
flow at the engine outlet.  Had the pilot have chosen to run Mogas, it likely 
would have resulted in an in flight engine failure rather than the really rough 
running engine he had using 100LL.  You want to do some careful testing to 
assure yourself of the heat tolerance of your fuel system before committing to 
running Mogas.

However, if your fuel system is designed to be heat tolerant (it should be 
regardless) and your engine can run properly on the octane levels of pump gas, 
then the smell of Mogas becomes the smell of savings while you fly, and savings 
in long term maintenance on your engine.  Over the last 2 years, my records 
show that I have saved roughly $1800 in fuel costs vs buying my fuel at the 
pump located right next to my hangar.


-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

KR> 15 year life on Control Cable and fittings

[Tony King]

Why would corrosion in swaged stainless fittings be any different in Australia 
to anywhere else in the world?  It's just that CASA (Oz equivalent of FAA) has 
issued an AD when others apparently haven't.  

Of course it's well known that the 'ASA' in CASA stands for 'Against Small 
Aircraft', so it may not be as big a deal as they make out (just look at what 
they did recently in relation to Jabiru), but worth making your own assessment 
of your own situation.

TK

>I thought that this was an Australian problem ? Virg
>> ___
>> 

KR> Selecting an airport to be based at

[Dan Heath]

So, that begs the question, why is 200 gallons of fuel stored in the tanks
of an airplane more save than 20 gallons of fuel stored in approved
containers that are completely sealed?



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC





-Original Message-



I rented my second one to a guy with a Cessna 210.  He told me one day that
he'd lost 19 gallons of 100LL out of the wing tank and onto the floor of the
hangar about a week earlier.  Apparently his petcock failed somehow and
drained one wing tank.

KR> Selecting an airport to be based at

[Mark Jones]

>OZ wrote:

>"A couple of 5-gallon totes of $2/gallon mogas in my hangar could bring
those differences in value to the immediate forefront if they were to spill
and ignite."

>That comment puts a whole new light on the problem...


ALSO, watch out for other vehicles in your hangar. Just two weeks ago I
opened the door to my hangar and the smell of gas overwhelmed me. A couple
of days earlier I had started my motorcycle for the first time since last
fall and the vacuum style petcock on the gas tank failed open and drained
several gallons out through the carbs. I too am in a long connected T-hangar
with more money in there than I will ever make in this life and maybe even
in my next life combined. I do have a million dollar insurance policy on the
hangar but you know how there are always loopholes. 

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI 
Email: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> 15 year life on Control Cable and fittings

[Tony King]

That's good to know Sid.  I've been scratching my head for a few weeks 
wondering if that AD applied to me.  Based on your info it doesn't.  Happy days!

Cheers,

Tony

Sent from my iPad

> On 3 Apr 2015, at 4:48 am, Sid Wood via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> All of the control cable fittings called out in the Australian AD are roll 
> crimped terminations.  The internal areas of the terminals that grip the 
> cable are not visible for corrosion inspection.  Nothing in the AD about 
> Nicopress or similar cable crimps.
> 
> Sid Wood
> Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
> 
> 
> Hi guys
> CASA has released an AD in Australia limiting control cable life to 15
> years, this seem to include building time on some fittings.
> I have added the AD number and link below.
> Does this indicate the parts need a Date of Manufacture stamped on them from
> now on?
> 
> Phil Matheson
> 
> AD/GEN/87
> This Airworthiness Directive became effective on 1 February 2015 and will
> apply to all the amateur built
> aircraft fitted with the stated stainless steel cable hardware. Please read
> the AD carefully to determine
> how/if it applies to your aircraft. Mike Horneman has written an excellent
> article on this subject which will
> appear in the next Airsport edition.
> Although the AD mandates replacement based upon ?time in service?, the SAAA
> recommends that you
> consider the circumstances carefully if you project had a long gestation
> period. If not properly stored, the
> damaging corrosion can be still be occurring whilst your project is under
> construction.
> 
> http://www.casa.gov.au/ADFiles/airgen/gen/GEN-087.pdf
> 
> --
> 
> Time in service is for the cable assembly, not the individual pieces, and is 
> based off the aircraft manufacture date.  The clock starts after the aircraft 
> is signed off as airworthy, and repeats every 15 years. (technically).  If 
> you live on the coast and the project is taking 10 years to complete, 
> consideration of cable assembly deterioration must be taken into account.
> As an alternative, using MSG-3 methodology (maintenance program) will allow a 
> potential extension.  I don't see MSG-3 as an option for the KR builder. Darn.
> Roger Baalman
> rbaalman at cox.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> Selecting an airport to be based at

[Mark Langford]

OZ wrote:

"A couple of 5-gallon totes of $2/gallon mogas in my hangar could bring
those differences in value to the immediate forefront if they were to spill
and ignite."

That comment puts a whole new light on the problem!  Fortunately (I think),
the only hangar near my hangar is my OTHER hangar!  Before I got the Swift,
I rented my second one to a guy with a Cessna 210.  He told me one day that
he'd lost 19 gallons of 100LL out of the wing tank and onto the floor of the
hangar about a week earlier.  Apparently his petcock failed somehow and
drained one wing tank.  I went in to check on things and there was no trace
of the fuel...no smell...nothing!  So there's something else to worry about.
If the air compressor had cycled while all those fumes were in the building,
it could have been more than "just" a big fire!  I leave the air compressor
off now...

But that's another good thing about 100LL...it's clean, evaporates with
almost no residue, and doesn't stink like autofuel.  

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  

KR> 15 year life on Control Cable and fittings

[Jeff Scott]

> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 at 6:53 PM
> From: "Flesner via KRnet" 
> To: KRnet 
> Subject: KR> 15 year life on Control Cable and fittings
>
> At 02:52 PM 4/2/2015, you wrote:
> >As Sid correctly points out, all the listed fittings are Swaged 
> >fittings.  When the cable is swaged inside a sleeve, it is 
> >impossible to inspect inside the sleeve for corrosion.
> 
> 
> I had all my cables Swaged at the local University aviation 
> maintenance training school.  Should I be concerned?
> 
> Larry Flesner 

I don't know.  This is an Australian A.D.  Whether it makes sense for you to do 
or not is entirely up to you.  

Like many ADs, it's a one size fits all fix.  So should a plane that lives in a 
hangar in the dry desert air be treated the same as a plane that sits out on 
the ramp on the coast and is exposed to salt air and lots of moisture?  
Probably not, but ADs are almost always written for worst case scenarios.  
Taken with a grain of salt, you should probably figure where your plane fits in 
a sliding scale where on end is the hangared desert plane and the other is the 
coastal ramp rat.  Then decide on some point between 15 years and never for 
when you need to replace your cables.

I've flown a lot of 1946 vintage planes that still had original cables.

-Jeff Scott