KR> parachutes

[Chris Prata]

hi mark,  have not started building the KR1 yet so thats an issue for sometime 
along the way.  most are hinged to the side that I've seen IIRC

> From: flykr2s at charter.net
> Subject: Re: KR> parachutes
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 20:15:44 -0500
> CC: chrisprata at live.com
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> 
> Chris. I may have missed this but how is your canopy mounted Z no how will 
> you deal with opening it to get out?
> 

KR> parachutes

[Mark Jones]

Chris. I may have missed this but how is your canopy mounted Z no how will you 
deal with opening it to get out?

Mark Jones 

Sent from my iPhone 6

> On May 11, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Chris Prata via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> I believe my chute is a national 360, which I just checked weights 10.8lbs 
> and is 1.75" thick.  at least thats the new specs for a 360. I can live with 
> the 10lbs. In the unlikely event of a fire (which is what started the 
> discussion), I will get out in time, believe that.
> Safety gear is a personal decision. Even if it just adds confidence, has 
> value. 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> PARACHUTES

[Paul Visk]

About flying over the top. I would like to give an educated opinion on this 
subject.?If you want to fly over a cloud deck. You really need to have the 
ability to keep the top side up if something happens to where you have to glide 
through that deck. ?I'm not saying you need to have a full six pack with all 
the gizmos and a IFR rating. ?Just a simple attitude indicator or a turn and 
back gauge with a VSI. AND practice with a hood. Whenever I go flying with 
another pilot. I get some hood time.?When Ray and I went on a sightseeing 
flight last year at McMinnville. ?We had to get a pop up IFR clearance to get 
back. ?I wasn't current but I had no problems getting back because I 
practice.?All I'm saying is. If your going to put your self in that situation 
be prepared. And you may not need to think about a parachute. This goes with 
flying at night also.?I forgot to mention. ?I did have a CFII next to me when 
Ray and I went up.?
Paul Visk ?Belleville IL ?618 406 4705





Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4













 Original message 
From: ol' weirdo via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 05/11/2016  1:18 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: krnet at list.krnet.org 
Cc: ol' weirdo  
Subject: KR> PARACHUTES 

Colin hales makes an interesting point re parachutes. Is baling out an
acceptable action if one is caught on top?

Bill Weir

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Mark Wegmet]

Keep in mind that Stainless Steel is not rust PROOF, but rust and corrosion
resistant. Pat is absolutely correct - if you introduce iron (standard steel
fines) to the surface of stainless, that will seed the surface with iron and
you will get rust and/or corrosion. 300 series steels are "self-passivating"
due to the higher chrome/nickel content. 400 series steels, particularly 420
is prone to corrosion unless chemically passivated. There are passivation
gels (acid based) that can be used to encourage a passive surface; if it is
clean 300 series stainless, it will self-passivate when exposed to oxygen.
Acidic cleaners will strip oxides from the surface and encourage a
passivation layer - make sure you rinse well and dry.

If you have the money, titanium is inert and the rust or corrosion you might
see is introduced from iron contaminants from machining or cutting; easily
removed with the right polishing compound. It is also very light, but
comparatively soft.

Mark W.
N952MW (res)
USMC - '71 - '73 (to mirror Pat's veteran statement).

-Original Message-
Patrick Driscoll wrote:

Subject: Re: KR> Firewall Edge Finish

Just be sure that when you file or grind S/S on the firewall, you use a new
file or grinding disc. Stainless steel will not rust? It will if you use a
file or disc that was used on plain steel or iron.
Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patrick36 at usfamily.net
www.pensbypat.com
If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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KR> PARACHUTES

[ol' weirdo]

Colin hales makes an interesting point re parachutes. Is baling out an
acceptable action if one is caught on top?

Bill Weir


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

KR> parachutes

[JAMES DUFF]

The only crash I've ever witnessed personally was a mid air collision at low 
altitude (Douglas Skyraider vs Mustang). I was fairly convinced I was watching 
a fatal accident unfolding, but the unflyable of the two aircraft's pilot 
bailed in a steep dive at very low altitude and got a clean chute before 
disappearing from view. He was found sat in a field with a sore arm.
My wife was wife me and decided from that point on I'd only ever fly with a 
parachute. I'd much rather carry a 10lb insurance policy than rely on 
probability and statistics.
Best regards,
Jamie

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Wed, 11 May, 2016 at 16:22, Tommy Waymack via KRnet wrote:   Got to agree with all the ideas on this subject.Safety 
is an important
consideration in flying.I wish it were otherwise.Fly safe and keep
building.Tommy W.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Chris Prata via KRnet <
krnet at list.krnet.org> wrote:

> I believe my chute is a national 360, which I just checked weights 10.8lbs
> and is 1.75" thick.? at least thats the new specs for a 360. I can live
> with the 10lbs. In the unlikely event of a fire (which is what started the
> discussion), I will get out in time, believe that.
> Safety gear is a personal decision. Even if it just adds confidence, has
> value.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>
___
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options

KR> parachutes

[Jeff Scott]

If one is giving serious thought to always flying with a parachute, I would 
recommend giving serious consideration to engineering in a BRS system from the 
beginning. In a KR, I would think that would mean extending the engine mount 
and cowl in order to accommodate the additional weight of the BRS system under 
the turtle deck.
?
Look at the number of "saves" claimed by Cirrus.? A big part of buying a Cirrus 
Aircraft is doing the Cirrus Pilot Training, which is quite heavy on training 
for "when to pull the handle", 'cause "If you haven't planned for it, and 
haven't trained for it, you won't do it."?
?
In the last 8 years, I have had 8 friends perish in aircraft crashes.? That is 
a pretty significant number.? Of those, had the pilot been wearing a chute, one 
of them likely would have been able to exit the aircraft and would have 
survived.? Had their aircraft all been equipped with a BRS system and the pilot 
willing to use it, it is likely that as many as 5 of my friends would still be 
alive.? Three of them simply put themselves in such a bad position that they 
had no chance.
?
When thinking about airbags, the Cirrus has multiple bags and inflators on the 
shoulder harnesses to protect the chest, neck and head area of the 
pilot/passenger.? I've never heard any studies of the impact results, but it is 
an interesting concept and is something now available for Experimental 
Aircraft.? Of course the downside is that these things are not inexpensive and 
require periodic replacement.
?
-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM
?
?

Sent:?Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:22 PM
From:?"Mark Langford via KRnet" 
To:?KRnet 
Cc:?"Mark Langford" 
Subject:?KR> parachutes
Regarding parachutes, it's worth mentioning that there's never been an
inflight structural failure of a KR (the all-composite one at high speed
at the Gathering doesn't count, in my mind), although there is a
question of elevator bellcrank failure in one plane, but it's possible
it was crash induced. There may be others, but no spar or fuselage
failure that I know of.

So given that record and the many thousands of KR hours logged, what are
the chances that you're going to have to go down somewhere so
inhospitable that you can do some semblance of a landing somewhere?
Even if it's in the tree tops, you'll likely survive it. So assuming
you are still in control of a plane that's capable of gliding, I'd just
stall it in the tree tops somewhere. John Schaffer did that in a flat
spin from 8000', and survived.

And how much time do you spend over that kind of terrain in Missouri
anyway? Your chances are looking better already! Jeff Scott probably
doesn't like what he sees out the window 75% of the time, but he doesn't
wear a parachute.

Jumping out of a spinning or otherwise disabled plane is not without its
risks as well...perhaps higher than sticking with the plane to put it on
the ground somewhere. You could get whacked in the head by the
horizontal stabilizer, or your parachute might be a streamer, etc. And
what if your plane crashes into a house and kills a family eating lunch?
That'd be bad.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are so concerned about a
structural or control failure, you should probably start thinking twin
engines and lot of other redundancy. Statistics are on your side
though...if your plane goes down, it'll likely be a fuel problem or a
broken crankshaft, and then you simply land in a field or on a road. At
least that way you still have a plane that you can rebuild or scavenge
for parts, or just maybe, it won't have a scratch on it! No need to
carry 20 pounds around for years expecting it to pay off someday, when
it likely won't.

I have about 1400 hours of KR time, and I've had plenty of engine
problems, and zero structural problems. With the plane 20 pounds
lighter, and the comfort of not being packed into my seat with a
parachute, I've had some pretty smooth and enjoyable flying so far.

And yes, I do know that the second engine is just there to get you to
the scene of the crash...

--
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com


___
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see 

KR> parachutes

[Randall Smith]

I have a 310 which is a twin and I can tell you single engine one engine 
feathered I can cruise at 140 mile an hour full gross below 9000 feet. One of 
the reasons I bought the airplane. I loved my KR I was one of those people that 
had a large number of engine failures. Every time I made an airport or a past. 
I fly west a lot and know that there are a few places you cannot land. There's 
always a road a mountaintop clearing somewhere that you can get into if you 
just pay attention to what you're doing. I believe Mark is proven that too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2016, at 9:51 AM, n357cj via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> Hey Guys,
> It just so happens that while going through paper work that I have acquired 
> over the past 20 years now I discovered a design for the KR2 ballistic chute  
> installation. I will send it to Mark L to post where he thinks it fits in his 
> glossary of KR stuff.
>   Jeff ... on a personnel note I am very sorry for all your losses. Those are 
> though things to grasp and understand to those left standing.
> Joe Horton
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeff Scott via KRnet" 
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Cc: "Jeff Scott" 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 9:33:18 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> parachutes
> 
> If one is giving serious thought to always flying with a parachute, I would 
> recommend giving serious consideration to engineering in a BRS system from 
> the beginning. In a KR, I would think that would mean extending the engine 
> mount and cowl in order to accommodate the additional weight of the BRS 
> system under the turtle deck.
>  
> Look at the number of "saves" claimed by Cirrus.  A big part of buying a 
> Cirrus Aircraft is doing the Cirrus Pilot Training, which is quite heavy on 
> training for "when to pull the handle", 'cause "If you haven't planned for 
> it, and haven't trained for it, you won't do it." 
>  
> In the last 8 years, I have had 8 friends perish in aircraft crashes.  That 
> is a pretty significant number.  Of those, had the pilot been wearing a 
> chute, one of them likely would have been able to exit the aircraft and would 
> have survived.  Had their aircraft all been equipped with a BRS system and 
> the pilot willing to use it, it is likely that as many as 5 of my friends 
> would still be alive.  Three of them simply put themselves in such a bad 
> position that they had no chance.
>  
> When thinking about airbags, the Cirrus has multiple bags and inflators on 
> the shoulder harnesses to protect the chest, neck and head area of the 
> pilot/passenger.  I've never heard any studies of the impact results, but it 
> is an interesting concept and is something now available for Experimental 
> Aircraft.  Of course the downside is that these things are not inexpensive 
> and require periodic replacement.
>  
> -Jeff Scott
> Los Alamos, NM
>  
>  
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:22 PM
> From: "Mark Langford via KRnet" 
> To: KRnet 
> Cc: "Mark Langford" 
> Subject: KR> parachutes
> Regarding parachutes, it's worth mentioning that there's never been an
> inflight structural failure of a KR (the all-composite one at high speed
> at the Gathering doesn't count, in my mind), although there is a
> question of elevator bellcrank failure in one plane, but it's possible
> it was crash induced. There may be others, but no spar or fuselage
> failure that I know of.
> 
> So given that record and the many thousands of KR hours logged, what are
> the chances that you're going to have to go down somewhere so
> inhospitable that you can do some semblance of a landing somewhere?
> Even if it's in the tree tops, you'll likely survive it. 
> 
> And yes, I do know that the second engine is just there to get you to
> the scene of the crash...
> 
> --
> Mark Langford
> M
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Parachutes

[Randall Smith]

If i remember right there has only been 2 death when the chute had been 
deployed. The problem cirrus had in the beginning was nobody would pull the 
chute because it totaled the plane. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Dan Branstrom via KRnet  list.krnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Some considerations:
> First, I'm not a big fan of Cirrus' system on its planes. Why? First, let me 
> point out that the descent rate on a Cirrus under a canopy is more than a 
> (What is now called) Cessna TTx in a glide. It is for good reason that the 
> Cirrus has seats that are designed to cushion a high vertical G load in a 
> crash or parachute deployment. A KR has no such cushion or crush area under 
> the pilot.
> 
> Generally, it is the vertical component of a crash that is a high factor in 
> survivability when crashing on a relatively smooth surface. Ya go straight 
> in, you're gonna die. If you don't have a crush area under you, you may end 
> up a lot shorter.
> 
> Next, the Cirrus has a definite deployment envelope. There have been several 
> crashes, if I recall correctly, where the airplane was found in one spot and 
> the chute in another because, obviously, the chute was deployed at high speed 
> and simply ripped away from the fuselage. There have also been crashes where 
> someone deployed the chute too close to the ground, perhaps to stop a pattern 
> altitude stall/spin event.
> 
> I think it's good that Cirrus has apparently started training for deployment 
> of the chute, because the fatality rate for Cirrus was actually higher than 
> for comparable aircraft. Perhaps it was a psychological over-dependence on 
> the chute or a misunderstanding of the deployment envelope. The Cirrus is a 
> slick airplane, and it is easy to exceed the deployment speed with the nose 
> pointed down.
> 
> Another thing to consider when wearing a chute is the ability to get out of 
> the plane.  Will your canopy open enough to get out? It is for good reason 
> that aerobatic planes usually have a way of ridding the canopy so that the 
> person can leave the plane. In the service, we didn't have ejection seats, 
> (that tells you how long ago it was) but we did have the ability to blow the 
> canopy open. I knew one guy that had a midair in the pattern (1200' agl, if I 
> recall) and he made it out successfully, but he acted instantly. The other 
> pilot didn't, and died.
> 
> Have you practiced getting out of your plane as quickly as possible? It's 
> easy to get tangled in seat belts and headset wires, and, in a KR, you're 
> sitting with your legs under the instrument panel. Even if you roll the plane 
> upside down to fall out, what can hang you up?
> 
> Remember that we only hear stories from survivors. The people who didn't make 
> it out, or died can't tell us how wonderful their chute was.
> 
> Dan Branstrom
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Patrick Driscoll]

Just be sure that when you file or grind S/S on the firewall, you use a new 
file or grinding disc. Stainless steel will not rust? It will if you use a 
file or disc that was used on plain steel or iron.
Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patrick36 at usfamily.net
www.pensbypat.com
If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran 

KR> parachutes

[Chris Prata]

I believe my chute is a national 360, which I just checked weights 10.8lbs and 
is 1.75" thick.  at least thats the new specs for a 360. I can live with the 
10lbs. In the unlikely event of a fire (which is what started the discussion), 
I will get out in time, believe that.
Safety gear is a personal decision. Even if it just adds confidence, has value. 
  

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Sid Wood]

What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless steel 
sheet to keep out water, oil, etc. from getting between the plywood and 
steel sheet, make a neat interface for the cowl and not add excessive 
weight?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

KR> parachutes

[n357cj]

Hey Guys,
It just so happens that while going through paper work that I have acquired 
over the past 20 years now I discovered a design for the KR2 ballistic chute 
?installation. I will send it to Mark L to post where he thinks it fits in his 
glossary of KR stuff.
??Jeff ... on a personnel note I am very sorry for all your losses. Those are 
though things to grasp and understand to those left standing.
Joe Horton

- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Scott via KRnet" 
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: "Jeff Scott" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 9:33:18 AM
Subject: Re: KR> parachutes

If one is giving serious thought to always flying with a parachute, I would 
recommend giving serious consideration to engineering in a BRS system from the 
beginning. In a KR, I would think that would mean extending the engine mount 
and cowl in order to accommodate the additional weight of the BRS system under 
the turtle deck.
?
Look at the number of "saves" claimed by Cirrus.? A big part of buying a Cirrus 
Aircraft is doing the Cirrus Pilot Training, which is quite heavy on training 
for "when to pull the handle", 'cause "If you haven't planned for it, and 
haven't trained for it, you won't do it."?
?
In the last 8 years, I have had 8 friends perish in aircraft crashes.? That is 
a pretty significant number.? Of those, had the pilot been wearing a chute, one 
of them likely would have been able to exit the aircraft and would have 
survived.? Had their aircraft all been equipped with a BRS system and the pilot 
willing to use it, it is likely that as many as 5 of my friends would still be 
alive.? Three of them simply put themselves in such a bad position that they 
had no chance.
?
When thinking about airbags, the Cirrus has multiple bags and inflators on the 
shoulder harnesses to protect the chest, neck and head area of the 
pilot/passenger.? I've never heard any studies of the impact results, but it is 
an interesting concept and is something now available for Experimental 
Aircraft.? Of course the downside is that these things are not inexpensive and 
require periodic replacement.
?
-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM
?
?

Sent:?Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:22 PM
From:?"Mark Langford via KRnet" 
To:?KRnet 
Cc:?"Mark Langford" 
Subject:?KR> parachutes
Regarding parachutes, it's worth mentioning that there's never been an
inflight structural failure of a KR (the all-composite one at high speed
at the Gathering doesn't count, in my mind), although there is a
question of elevator bellcrank failure in one plane, but it's possible
it was crash induced. There may be others, but no spar or fuselage
failure that I know of.

So given that record and the many thousands of KR hours logged, what are
the chances that you're going to have to go down somewhere so
inhospitable that you can do some semblance of a landing somewhere?
Even if it's in the tree tops, you'll likely survive it. 

And yes, I do know that the second engine is just there to get you to
the scene of the crash...

--
Mark Langford
M

KR> Parachutes

[Dan Branstrom]

Some considerations:
First, I'm not a big fan of Cirrus' system on its planes. Why? First, 
let me point out that the descent rate on a Cirrus under a canopy is 
more than a (What is now called) Cessna TTx in a glide. It is for good 
reason that the Cirrus has seats that are designed to cushion a high 
vertical G load in a crash or parachute deployment. A KR has no such 
cushion or crush area under the pilot.

Generally, it is the vertical component of a crash that is a high factor 
in survivability when crashing on a relatively smooth surface. Ya go 
straight in, you're gonna die. If you don't have a crush area under you, 
you may end up a lot shorter.

Next, the Cirrus has a definite deployment envelope. There have been 
several crashes, if I recall correctly, where the airplane was found in 
one spot and the chute in another because, obviously, the chute was 
deployed at high speed and simply ripped away from the fuselage. There 
have also been crashes where someone deployed the chute too close to the 
ground, perhaps to stop a pattern altitude stall/spin event.

I think it's good that Cirrus has apparently started training for 
deployment of the chute, because the fatality rate for Cirrus was 
actually higher than for comparable aircraft. Perhaps it was a 
psychological over-dependence on the chute or a misunderstanding of the 
deployment envelope. The Cirrus is a slick airplane, and it is easy to 
exceed the deployment speed with the nose pointed down.

Another thing to consider when wearing a chute is the ability to get out 
of the plane.  Will your canopy open enough to get out? It is for good 
reason that aerobatic planes usually have a way of ridding the canopy so 
that the person can leave the plane. In the service, we didn't have 
ejection seats, (that tells you how long ago it was) but we did have the 
ability to blow the canopy open. I knew one guy that had a midair in the 
pattern (1200' agl, if I recall) and he made it out successfully, but he 
acted instantly. The other pilot didn't, and died.

Have you practiced getting out of your plane as quickly as possible? 
It's easy to get tangled in seat belts and headset wires, and, in a KR, 
you're sitting with your legs under the instrument panel. Even if you 
roll the plane upside down to fall out, what can hang you up?

Remember that we only hear stories from survivors. The people who didn't 
make it out, or died can't tell us how wonderful their chute was.

Dan Branstrom

---
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KR> parachutes

[Nerobro]

Keep in mind the source.

But if you've got a sound airframe, with a slow stall speed, sticking
with the plane is the best idea.  You're probally better off saving
the 20lbs, and stalling slower.

If you've got a sound airframe, but a high stall speed, sticking with
the plane is asking to run into things at 60, 70, 90kts...In that
case, I want a chute.

If you're doing testing that could cause issues with airframe
integrity, I'd definitely have a chute with me.

I can't imagine relying on a chute as a safety device that require
skill to use, without ever actually using it, so doing a few jumps
sounds like a good idea to me.

As far as I can see... ~everyone~ here is right, depending on the
direction you're coming from.

-Nero

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Larry Flesner via KRnet
 wrote:
> At 08:15 AM 5/11/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> I base that on an in-experienced jumper trying to exit an out of control
>> aircraft having used up valuable altitude even deciding to jump and falling
>> 1000 feet every 8 seconds after exit.
>> Given that and the extremely low odds that you would ever need it make it
>> a very low priority in my view.  Go with your own comfort
>> level..
>> Larry Flesner
>
> +
>
> However, a good 200 to 400 pound ejection system might change those odds.
> :-)
>
> Larry Flesner
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options

KR> parachutes

[Larry Flesner]

At 08:15 AM 5/11/2016, you wrote:
>I base that on an in-experienced jumper trying to exit an out of 
>control aircraft having used up valuable altitude even deciding to 
>jump and falling 1000 feet every 8 seconds after exit.
>Given that and the extremely low odds that you would ever need it 
>make it a very low priority in my view.  Go with your own comfort 
>level..
>Larry Flesner
+

However, a good 200 to 400 pound ejection system might change those odds. :-)

Larry Flesner 

KR> parachutes

[Chris Prata]

ONE airbag mark. I'm building a KR1. 

> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 21:26:17 -0500
> Subject: Re: KR> parachutes
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: ml at n56ml.com
> 
> Also, you're far more likely to roll it up in a ball during a landing, 
> so why not airbags too?
> 
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> http://www.n56ml.com
> 
> 
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