KRnet> registration information

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

If anyone that attended the Gathering met someone they would like to now 
get in contact with or would like to know  "who was the guy from xxx",  
I have the registration forms that might have that info.  I've use them 
to contact several attendees and thought others might like some similar 
info.  If so, contact me off net at fles...@frontier.com  I'll not put 
the information on public display for harvest by spammers.


Larry Flesner


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Re: KRnet> Inquiry About Acquiring the KR-2 Project

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/19/2024 1:25 PM, Márcio Erli via KRnet wrote:


In Brazil, airplane engines are scarce, and importing them comes with 
extremely high costs.


I would like to know how I can acquire the project.


++

Marcio,

I think your question is a bit vague  to expect an answer.  What 
information exactly are you looking for?  You are in Brazil, where is 
the project you are interested in?  Do you need someone to inspect the 
project for you? Do you need information on payment method? How to ship? 
Import duties if outside Brazil?  Someone can answer you questions if 
they have more information.


Good luck.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> 2024 KR Gathering web page completed

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Thanks John for all the photos and posting for our viewing.  Here is a 
larger image of Zach's efforts for those that haven't found it yet.


My guess is that was done over 10 to 15 miles of sky.  I built that KR 
but Zach taught it how to write. 🙂


Chris did an even larger one several years ago that I'd ask him to post 
and the inspiration for doing it.


Larry Flesner
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KRnet> KRs and guitars

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

KR's and guitars.  There's the start of a hook line for a song. I met a 
fellow builder at the Gathering this past weekend that has a house full 
of guitars and loves music.  If anyone on the net is a musician and 
looking for original material, contact me off net at 
fles...@frontier.com and I'd be happy to share any of the hundred or so 
songs I've penned over the years.  There might be one or two you'd like,


Anyone that has photos or stories from this years Gathering to share, 
get them posted or send photos to John for posting on the Gathering 
site.  k...@bouyea.net


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Lyrics

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I got request for the lyrics from those unable to open the attachment.  
This is not ideal but everyone that wants them can get them this way.


Larry Flesner

NO NEED TO CRY WHEN I’M GONE

¾ time, moderate speed

Verse 1

ADA

There’s a day I knows’ coming that’s the end of the line

AE

There’s always a last day and I know I’ll have mine

ADA

I had plenty of chances at singing life’s song

AEA

So there’s no need to cry when I’m gone

Verse 2

ADA

I was loved by a lady I was dad to a child

AE

There were times life was boring other times it was wild

ADA

There were times that I lost there were times that I’d win

AEA

Life’s a special event it won’t happen again

CHORUS

ADA

Some will say I’m in heaven others say that they’re wrong

AEA

But there’s no need to cry when I’m gone

ADAD

Cause I lived a good life it was happy and long

AEA

So there’s no need to cry when I’m gone

Verse 3

ADA

There were times I was right there were times I was wrong

AE

Times I could have tried harder when I just moved along

ADA

I once saw a sunset that inspired a song

AEA

So there’s no need to cry when I’m gone

CHORUS

Closing lines:

(I was never so happy as when singing my songs

So there’s no need to cry when I’m gone)

© 8/26/2018 Larry Flesner, Carterville, Illinois, 62918
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KRnet> contact?

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Brian Law, e-mail me off net.   fles...@frontier.com

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/16/2024 8:06 AM, Chris Pryce via KRnet wrote:
I made it home yesterday in time for dinner. 12.7 hours of flying with 
two fuel stops. I had a great time seeing everyone. Can't wait for 
next year.


Chris Pryce

+++



Chris,

There is more to your journey home than "I made it home for dinner".  
Please share the details when you get time.  Same for the other flyers,  
Jeff had weather, etc.


Chris covered parts of 7 states, 3 time zones, and 1550 miles in one day 
with 2 fuel stops in a KR.  Some kind of record?


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Memorializing 2018 gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Thanks, Luis.  I think it will be obvious to all that no record deals or 
recording contracts resulted from that performance but we do enjoy 
hearing ourselves making musical noises.  It is always a bit hard to 
hear the lyrics over a P.A. so I'll attach them here so you can follow 
the bouncing ball.  Open the attachment while you listen to the song.


Lets hear some going home reports from this years attendees.

Larry Flesner



On 9/16/2024 7:31 AM, Luis Claudio via KRnet wrote:
For those that were unable to attend the 2024 Gathering, I asked and 
got permission from Larry Flesner if I could re-post the video of 
Larry singing several of his iconic songs which includes my very 
favorite " No need to cry when I'm gone..."


Luis R Claudio
N8981S KR2S
Dallas, Texas

2018 KR Gathering Mt Vernon, IL (youtube.com) 









2018 KR Gathering Mt Vernon, IL







No need to cry when i'm gone.docx
Description: MS-Word 2007 document
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KRnet> Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

As the last one to leave the Mt.Vernon airport this morning I turned out 
the lights and locked the doors to secure it for next years Gathering.  
Thanks to all that made the effort to attend and especially the pilots 
that flew their KRs to Mt.vernon for everyone see, enjoy, and learn 
from.  Thanks to anyone that helped in any way to make the Gathering 
enjoyable for all that attended.


A special ask from me is to send a short note to the following addresses 
thanking Chris and the airport management and the city of Mt.Vernon for 
their hospitality and support for our event. Remind them of the great 
facilities they have and the capable and dedicated airport manager they 
have in Chris.  Chris can never be thanked enough for all he does for 
our group.


Lets hope that everyone has a safe journey home.  Thanks and see you 
next year.


https://www.mtvernonairport.com/contact-mvn/

https://www.facebook.com/MtVernonIL/

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> one more wake-up !!!

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

As my daughters used to say, "one more wake-up" and I'm off to 
Mt.Vernon.  I have my second truck load of Gathering items loaded, 
cloths packed, and I'm ready to boggy at sunup tomorrow.  Weather looks 
wet but several are already at Mt.Vernon.  We have one of the most 
standard plans-built KR2S already on the field (Rob Schmitt)    to look 
over and the forums should answer any questions anyone wants answered.  
No reason to cancel plans.


See you in Mt.Vernon

Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> Gathering weather

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

For those attending the Gathering,  bring a bit of rain gear. Friday 
looks a bit wet.  Don't let the rain keep you from attending.  We can do 
everything scheduled indoors.  My only concern is if the KRs get 
weathered out.  Hopefully we get some early arrivals before the weather 
arrives.


Fly and travel safe everyone.

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Gathering weather

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

It looks like I spoke too soon on a good weather forecast for the 
Gathering.  I think the hurricane will bring a bit of rain.  For those 
flying to the Gathering, I just confirmed with Chris that hangar space 
will be available.  He said not to worry, he is looking forward to 
seeing everyone.


Travel safely all.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> kr search

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/9/2024 1:17 PM, Tim Hoversten via KRnet wrote:

FAA records show that Pete still owns it, and Pete is in Ogdensburg, WI.

 Click the blue hot link below

Aircraft Inquiry 



+++

The reason I question that registration is Pete sold the KR 10 years ago 
and it appears no one has updated their ownership.


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Re: KRnet> Ground loop Incident

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/9/2024 1:19 AM, Luis Claudio via KRnet wrote:


My airplane now sits in my hanger till i have a chance to do a 
thorough inspection. My hip hurts like crap and I hope I can recover 
enough to make it to Mount Vernon.


Luis


+++

Good to hear that no one was hurt or airplane damaged.  I suspect your 
ego is more bruised than your hip.  You must have skipped the last step 
in the pre-flight when flying a taildragger.  You face the wind and 
spit.  If it comes back and hit you in the face you put the airplane 
back in the hangar.


See you in Mt.Vernon.

Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> kr search

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/8/2024 5:18 PM, Todd Thelin via KRnet wrote:

While stumbling around the web I was reminded of Pete Brautigam's KR N1436


+++

I ground looped that post big time.  I inquired about Pete Brautigan's 
KR and gave the N number for Ken Rand's KR 1.  I had been researching 
both and got them mixed up.  Thanks for the update on Ken's KR1 as the 
records indicate it is owned by the EAA Foundation and it is not listed 
as on display in the Oshkosh museum where it should be.


I'm still curious about where Pete's beautiful KR2 is located today.

Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> Happi gauge

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/8/2024 10:50 AM, K W via KRnet wrote:

Hello to everyone.
I have a very erratic oil pressure gauge reading in the cockpit. 
Installed a connector T at the oil pressure port on my 2100 D and 
attached a direct reading gauge for verification. Direct reading gauge 
is very steady oil pressure while cockpit
 instrumentation is sporadic fluctuating from 0 to 40. my question, 
assuming I need to replace the sending unit, does a sending unit have 
to match the happi gauge or can I buy an off the shelf sending unit?


Cheers TIA
Keith


+

Keith,

Not seeing a response I'll throw in my non-mechanic opinion.  Buy an off 
the shelf gauge and see if it matches the direct reading test gauge.  I 
can't imagine that it wouldn't.  My only concern is that any gauge used 
have a very tiny orifice in line in case of a leak in the gauge it 
doesn't dump all your oil before you can get down safely.


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> kr search

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

While stumbling around the web I was reminded of Pete Brautigam's KR 
N1436 that sold as long ago as 10 years and wondering where it is now.  
Still registered in his name.  Beautiful KR I've never seen again.  
Anyone know it's where it is today?


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> KR2S nearing completion.

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Hi Rene.
I have uploaded a Video of the KR1 but it does not show on the krnet 
website. Do you maybe know why?
I also completed a KR2S and would like to upload the pictures but 
hesitant as they dont show.





TieKie and netters,

If you have problems with the net, try contacting Mark Langford directly 
at  m...@n56ml.com  for help.  Mark is a very busy person and may not 
respond immediately but he will get back to you.  We would all like to 
see any photo / videos that anyone has.


4 days and the diehards start showing up at Mt.Vernon.  Several are 
there already.  4 of us had lunch on Friday at the Light Sport Expo.


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Gathering weather forecast

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Here is the National Weather Service forecast for Mt.Vernon next weekend. 🙂

*Thursday*
Mostly sunny, with a high near 88. Southeast wind 3 to 8 mph.

*Friday*
Mostly sunny, with a high near 84. Southeast wind 5 to 8 mph.

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Re: KRnet> planned Gathering schedule

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/7/2024 3:14 PM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:
He has suggested that Chris Price take his place with Jeff Scott on 
Saturday to cover engines,




I should have included that Mark recommended Chris be included to cover 
Corvair engines.  John B. and John S. can help cover questions on V.W. 
and Jeff can advise on aircraft systems.  Bring your questions and we'll 
see you in Mt.Vernon.


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> planned Gathering schedule

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Here is the "Planned" KR Gathering schedule.  Hopefully those attending 
can leave with the greatest amount of knowledge and exposure to building 
and flying KR aircraft possible in such a short time.   As life is 
continually changing, so do the best laid plans.  I received word this 
morning that Mark Langford is unable to attend this year do to personal 
conflicts.  He will be sorely missed.  He has suggested that Chris Price 
take his place with Jeff Scott on Saturday to cover engines, etc..  As 
always, we'll make it work out the best we can.


Pack you bags, leave the family a note, and head to Mt.Vernon.

Larry Flesner



KR Gathering schedule

*Thursday:*
First arrivals, fly-bys, catching up with old friends
--EACH EVENING-- Camp fire by the lake - story telling & root beer

Friday9:30AM – 11:00AM with break

- Mark Langford - Freebird plans progress update

- Larry Flesner

- Building and flying experimental aircraft"

- E-AB registrations

- Building a straight KR the easy way

- Overview of W&B

Friday1:00PM – 2:30PM with breaks

-Adam Deem on Full briefing on my handling qualities flight testing and 
modifications to address handling qualities deficiencies


John Schaffer on Flat Spin Recovery, in a KR-2

Friday6:00PM – 7:00PM

Luis Claudio on SDS electronic ignition for Corvair and VW conversions 
as the uniqueness of this system is the ability to shape your power 
curve from starting the engine to Lean of Peak


Saturday9:30AM – 11:00AM with break

- KR overview on the ramp by KR pilots of their KR’s

Saturday1:00PM -- 2:30PM with break

-Jeff Scott & Mark Langford on engine Q&A including costs, parts & 
resources including Corvair, VW and certified engines


-Jeff Scott on aircraft systems from the point of view of an A&P that 
may have to look at your plane


Saturdayevening

Optional group dinner - 6:00PM

Awards ceremony - 7:00PM
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Re: KRnet> Fwd: 50th Anniversary of the kR Video

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Luis,

there seems to be two videos on youtube on the 50 anniversary. The 
finished version and one at the following address.  Please check and 
delete this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3U-LNdm3y4


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Fwd: 50th Anniversary of the kR Video

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I recently became aware that the comment section of the 50th Anniversary 
video was restricted. Luis has corrected that.  You may now view and 
post a comment if you'd like.

Larry Flesner
+

I am pleased to announce that I have turned on the comments. (to the 
50th anniversary video) The problem was that I had selected "Made for 
kids" thinking that children would be allowed to watch the video but 
that restricted the comments, I guess to protect them from nasty 
comments (my guess).
I removed the Made for kids filter and Walla... we now have the ability 
to post comments... let the games begin


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Re: KRnet> Fwd: Homebuilders Hall of Fame

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 9/4/2024 9:00 PM, G R Pickett via KRnet wrote:

I’ll take this on, it really needs to be done.


+++

Thanks Griff.  We can get input from the attendees at the Gathering next 
week. Thanks to everyone that has information to share.


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> search

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Do we have anyone on the net that lives anywhere near Sonoma, California?

I'm doing a search for Stuart Robinson, Ken's partner, and I think his 
last known location may be Sonoma.  Jeanette Rand has lost contact with 
him also but believes he moved to that area.


If anyone lives close, send me a replay to fles...@frontier.com

Thanks.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> High impedance short - lessons learned

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

if you don't know what normal operation is you're not really 
troubleshooting, you're no different than a pig rooting for an acorn.  
They often find the acorn but they also spend a lot of time rooting and 
find nothing. 🙂

++

My earlier post was not intended as a "put-down" to anyone.  My point is 
that to troubleshoot anything, electronics or otherwise,  you need to 
know what "normal" operation is in order to identify a fault.  Almost 
anyone can troubleshoot anything if they know what "normal" is.  Even 
for a flat tire, "normal" is no leaks in the tube and the valve stem is 
not leaking.  Troubleshooting requires checking each to find the 
problem.  Troubleshooting an engine or computer gets a bit more involved 
but you still need to know and understand "normal operation".  In my 
many Xerox training classes the course manual began each chapter on each 
system in a machine with "Theory of Operation" that was read and tested 
on before anyone went to the lab to troubleshoot equipment.  Nothing 
wrong with rooting as long as you don't do any damage.  I've fixed a lot 
of things that way but I wasn't really troubleshooting.  🙂


I started my career with Xerox working on their very first model, the 
914, now in the Smithsonian museum , and ended on this one. 
https://xeroxnostalgia.com/2019/07/23/xerox-5090/.  The crypto equipment 
I worked on is also in the Smithsonian museum and my military uniforms 
in the museum in my home town.  I'll be in the museum soon myself.


Larry Flesner
P.S. The P.A. is set up at Mt.Vernon for the Gathering and details for 
the Saturday evening event with the restaurant confirmed.  Don't forget 
to leave a note for the family so they know where you're at when you 
come up missing in two weeks.


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Re: KRnet> High impedance short - lessons learned

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/30/2024 9:34 AM, John Gotschall via KRnet wrote:

Hi all,

I read something about an avionics power connection arcing upon 
contact during troubleshooting.

+++


Something to support your observations, I learned early on in my 
electronics education,  working on crypto equipment in the USAF, and 33 
years working on office equipment for Xerox, that if you don't know what 
normal operation is you're not really troubleshooting, you're no 
different than a pig rooting for an acorn.  They often find the acorn 
but they also spend a lot of time rooting and find nothing. 🙂


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KRnet> Gathering items

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Anyone booked at the Drury for the Gatheirng has probably received this 
but just in case.  I think this was mentioned when the reservation was 
made and is really not much of an issue.


Second, I'm loading my P.A. system and will be making the 100 mile round 
trip  to Mt.Vernon this morning to set it up.  Chris has asked to use it 
for his national aviation event next weekend and a class reunion group 
will be using it on the weekend of the Gathering.  While loading the 
equipment I came across the three digital scales used for weighing 
airplanes.  They aren't certified but seem to be quite accurate.  Each 
scale has a 600 pound capacity with remote read-out and are certainly 
better than bathroom scales.  If anyone flying their KR to the Gathering 
would like to weight their aircraft I'll bring them to the Gathering.


Larry Flesner



Drury Hotels

Drury
Fresh New Look..Coming Soon!

We're pleased to share that areas of the Drury Inn & Suites Mt. Vernon 
are currently being improved to serve you better.


During your stay, you will still experience Drury Hotels' best-in-class 
amenities, award-winning service, and friendly team members. Please let 
us know if there is anything we can do to make your stay more enjoyable.


Thank you for choosing to stay with Drury Hotels and we look forward to 
welcoming you soon!


Caitlin Attard
General Manager
618-246-5201
Drury
If you have questions or comments, contact us 
. To be removed from all promotional 
emails from Drury Hotels, Please emaildr...@druryhotels.com 
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the subject line. We respect your privacy and do not share or sell email 
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our privacy policy.


Drury Hotels Company, LLC   .  13075 Manchester Road, Suite 100  .  St. 
Louis, MO 63131  . dr...@druryhotels.com
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Re: KRnet> Recommended viewing

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/30/2024 12:15 AM, Luis Claudio via KRnet wrote:
The nice thing about this project is that I can always go back 
and edit it and post a new update... simply email me with the correction.


++

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUqoyStN9kU 



Corrections anyone???

Submit directly to Luis Claudio dallasbori...@yahoo.com

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Re: KRnet> Recommended viewing

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

All that nitpicking, and not a one of you bothered to post a link so the
  rest of us out here enjoying the comments could actually go see what
you all were bickering about.

Cheers,
Todd Thelin
N825MW


++

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUqoyStN9kU
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Re: KRnet> Recommended viewing

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/29/2024 6:14 PM, Chris Pryce via KRnet wrote:
I don't knowI'm super upset about the cruise and max speed numbers 
posted for my airplane. It's so much faster than that.

Chris Pryce


+

So where did Luis get the numbers?  I really doubt he just made up the 
numbers for all the photos.  Yours was listed at 160 mph cruise and you 
claim 170 mph cruise.  I wouldn't say that is "so much faster" and 
anything to get  "super upset" about.


Mike's comment "As a finished product though, it's not ready for 
presentation.  . . not with needing so much editing."  Except for some 
"professional" articles by Kit Planes with a couple of video interviews, 
no one raised their hand to put in the effort to produce a video to 
celebrate the 50th anniversary of the KR. Luis, who is not a 
professional, volunteered his time an effort to help celebrate the 
occasion.  It doesn't take much character to call the baby ugly when you 
won't even help dress it.


Thanks again, Luis

Larry Flesner


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Re: KRnet> Recommended viewing

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Nice collection of KR photos . . . along with loads of 
mis-information.  Pictures mis-labeled for a variety of reasons.  This 
thing is a blight.

Mike Stirewalt
KSEE
++


That one line certainly did a ground loop before it reached the last 
period.  I had to go back and watch it again to see if I could find the 
"loads of mis-information and mis-labeled photos.
All the info for the photos came directly from the builders / current 
owners that submitted the photos for the project.  I think, and thank 
Luis, who volunteered his time and effort to put the video together to 
celebrate the 50th anniversary of the KR. Any mistakes were purely 
unintentional and calling it a "blight" seems a bit harsh.  Most netters 
would probably appreciate a positive correction of any mistakes made in 
the video rather than a simple condemnation.


Larry Flesner


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KRnet> Recommended viewing

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

If you are bouncing around on YouTube, watch the video "KR anniversary 
50 years" to see all the amazing KR's from around the world.   Also, a 
number of KR Gathering videos are available also.


A couple of short weeks and it happens again at Mt.Vernon.  Gas up the 
plane, gas up the car, kiss the wife goodby, wave at the kids, and head 
to Mt.Vernon.


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Re: KRnet> Freebird plans

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/28/2024 6:37 PM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:

Check out the KR 860.


+


For those technically challenged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_KR-860

🙂

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KRnet> Freebird plans

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Maybe we should set our sites a bit higher than Freebird.  Check out the 
KR 860.


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> KR community challenge

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Several days ago I mentioned the EAA "Homebuilders Hall of Fame" and 
wondered if Ken and Stu had ever been inducted and if not, why not.  
Mike Simmons posted me off net with some info he researched and the 
nominating form.  I had a nice conversation with Jeanette Rand this 
afternoon and she expressed her grateful thanks to anyone taking on the 
project of having them inducted.  I would suggest that it would be 
fitting to include her name on the nominating petition as she was with 
Ken from  the beginning and she ran the company for 30 years after Ken's 
death.  She has lost track of Stu after all these years after he moved 
to northern California.  It sure would be nice if we could contact Stu 
as part of this project.


My challenge to group is someone or a committee take on the project of 
putting together the info to submit a nominating petition for their 
induction to the Homebuilders Hall of Fame.  I provided Jeanette with a 
copy of the form and she will start making some notes to help write the 
petition.


I would like to set a goal of submitting the petition by the deadline 
for next year of March 31.


Some of the interesting details she shared was that the long wing motor 
glider was Stu's KR and that Stu did much of the building on 
the**amphibian.

*
*
https://www.eaa.org/-/media/files/eaa/homebuilders/2018-hb-hall-of-fame-nomination-form.ashx


Considering the thousands of hours many of us have spent in flying KR 
aircraft and with KRs having been built on probably every continent 
except Antarctica,  I think their induction is long overdue.


Let's make it happen.

Larry Flesner

P.S.  I think I have Jeanette's autograph on one of my photo albums when 
she visited my project 25+ years ago and 211LF is flying with EAA 
founder Paul Poberezny and Rudy Frasca (builder of flight simulators)  
autograph on the back of the seat back.  I didn't have a marker with me 
when I met Orville and Wilbur at the airport or I'd have their autograph 
too.  🙂



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Re: KRnet> Freebird plan

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/27/2024 11:24 PM, ROBERT HARTMAIER via KRnet wrote:
I have the original KR-2 plans, and I agree that they are very basic 
and leave much to the knowledge and experience of the builder.  It 
seems to me that I saw on this site a reference to a later version, 
perhaps from around the late 1980's or early 1990's, that were more 
detailed, and incorporated the latest modifications that had been 
recommended by other builders. Anyone have  a link to these 
instructions for new builders?

Bob


+

I'm guessing you are referring to the 2S (KR2S) supplement.  Over the 
years a number of good changes have been made by RR and builders.  
Fuselage length / shape, increased size / shape of the tail surfaces, 
new main wing airfoil shape among the major changes.  I'm sure these 
changes and more will be included in the Freebird update effort.  All 
these changes have been discussed in the e-mails over the last 20 years 
if you have the time to research.  The KR Gathering in 2 weeks at 
Mt.Vernon, Illinois is the place to see/discuss/ learn about everything 
you ever wanted to know about the KR design.


In addition to seeing, touching, and drooling over the KR's in 
attendance there will be several forums on building / flying the KR.  
I'll be presenting a short forum on the absolute brain dead easy way to 
build a straight flying airplane for all new builders.


www.krgathering.net

Come join the fun

Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> Freebird plan

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I m very interesting by thé freebird.
I would liké to know when it will bé available
Best resgard from France
Nicolas
++


Nicolas,

Welcome to the KRnet.  Hopefully we will get an update on Freebird at 
the Gathering in the next couple of weeks.


Stay tuned

Larry Flesner
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KRnet> EAA Homebuilders Hall of Fame

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

In one of the regular e-mails from the EAA was the following:

EAA Introduces 2024 Sport Aviation Halls of Fame Class 



I was not aware there was a Sport Aviation Halls of Fame


Are Ken Rand / Stu Robinson members of the Sport Aviation Halls of Fame 
? 
If not, why not.


After all, they started the "glass airplane" process that dominates the 
industry today.


Is there anyone in this group that would like to investigate and if not, 
determine what we would have to do to nominate them?


Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> Operation Sunbeam

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Oscar,

Congratulation on your new bird !!!

I hope we get some update reports when you get it in the air.

Larry

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Re: KRnet> KR high speed taxi test

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/10/2024 6:22 AM, n357cj via KRnet wrote:
I had originally built a snorkle for the fresh air to carb and it was 
not the right thing to do but only became know by high speed taxing.


+++

Joe,

When is that project going to fly?  Most netters probably don't know the 
story on your project, how different it is, how long ago it was 
started?  Web site? Photos?


More info on your carb issue on 357CJ ( that Langford now owns). What 
was it and why didn't it work.


Anyone with valid engine testing procedures that work, share so others 
can learn.


This whole thread started with the lesson learned  (repeated) "don't use 
plastic brake line all the way to the brake puck" and "carry a fire 
extinguisher".    Plastic line could be an issue on first taxi or 20 
years and 1000 hours later.  I hope that lesson has not been lost in the 
shuffle.


How many days till Mt.Vernon

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> KR high speed taxi test

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/9/2024 2:31 PM, Ray_pilot via KRnet wrote:
I had always thought you were supposed to high speed taxi test.  Never 
thought it was an option.

And we can guess forever if it is smart or not.
For me, I am getting closer, but we do have a professional at our 
airport and he will do the first flight.  If anything goes wrong he 
has a better shot of handling it than I would.
I will do taxi testing and maybe some hops, but not a flight off the 
airport.  Not the first one.

Ray_pilot
New Orleans



I don't recall anyone suggesting not to do high speed taxi test. My 
observation has always been "do high speed taxi test to determine 
control-ability of the aircraft up to lift off speed, maybe two or three 
runs."  Anything beyond that I consider "practice" and not "testing" and 
any "practice time" is simply additional safety exposure.  If you need 
"practice" time, your suggestion of having a more qualified pilot do the 
first flight is good advise.


Everyone makes their own determination on whether they are qualified to 
do first flight.  Some times it works out, sometimes it doesn't.  
Without checking the records I seem to recall an accident will most 
likely occur on landing and / or "crow hops" rather than takeoff .


Go with what makes you feel good, until it doesn't feel good any more. 🙂

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Memorial flight

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/9/2024 4:19 PM, Dr. Feng Hsu via KRnet wrote:


Can you tell us who's Dave in the pickle you sent? I want to know if 
myself or many of us ever met Dave in our previous KR gatherings?




You'll remember Dave if you ever met him.  Dave is the guy in the yellow 
shirt.  Dave was one of the more devoted attendees as he drove from New 
Hampshire (?) each year he attended and one of his last Gatherings he 
pulled his project on a trailer all the way, possibly non stop as I recall.


Dave was the photographer that took many of our group photos.  A very 
quite, polite, and interesting person to know.  The photo tells you all 
you need to know about why Dave was building a "super-size" KR.



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KRnet> talent / expertise on the net

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

It is amazing how much talent / expertise is available to KR builders on 
the KR net, just for the asking.  While skimming through the article 
titled " Affordaplane" on "Kitplanes Weekly" I came across the the 
following:


===

As luck would have it, a fellow builder, Oscar Zuniga, was following my 
YouTube channel where I documented this Affordaplane build 
 
and wrote to me offering his expertise in creating a mount. It just so 
happens he is a professional mechanical engineer and has built several 
Experimental aircraft in his day. To make a long story short, I simply 
sent him the specs of the mounting ring from the Polini engine and from 
there he went to work. Using his creativity and technical knowledge, he 
came up with a simple and elegant design that utilizes materials and 
components we were already using. Simple to build and strong. Never 
underestimate the talent and resources of your audience! The last major 
building hurdle was now in the past.


==

Oscar has been on the KR net sharing his knowledge with us for as long 
as I can remember. Thanks Oscar.


Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> KR time and update

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 8/7/2024 1:47 PM, Mark Langford wrote:
It's actually about 1800 KR hours, but I'm a pretty slow learner, so 
maybe 100 hours is a better description of my KR skill level.




In spite of Mark's disclaimers, the KR Gathering is the place to be to 
learn everything you've ever wanted to know about KR's. With the 
scheduled forums and talking to real KR pilots and drooling over the 
KR's present, you'll leave motivated to get back to the workshop and 
finish up your project or start that project you've been putting off.  
With just 4 people planning to attend there is close to, and probably 
more than, 5000 hours of flight time in KR's.  Bring your questions and 
see you in Mt.Vernon.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> RESPECTFULLY- OFF Topic

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Hi guys
During our wonderful stay in Hawaii, My wife and I had the honour of paying our 
deepest respects to all of the lost souls at USS ARIZONA  Pearl Harbour 
Memorial.
What a beautiful and solemn place. To all military personnel, their families 
friends and allies- you have our greatest respect. They will never be forgotten.
With respect
Phillip Matheson
Australia.
+++


Phil,

On behalf of all the veterans on the list, of all nations that fought 
for freedom, your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Those of us still 
able to respond are the lucky ones. The heroes voices have all been 
silenced.


Larry Flesner

USAF - 1963 - 1967
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KRnet> KR Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

If anyone has aircraft parts / tools / etc. for sale, feel free to bring 
them to the Gathering.  We'll find a table to display items.  Also, if 
you're looking for parts, a list of wanted items posted ahead of time 
might find some of them making their way to the Gathering "for sale".


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> KR Gathering schedule

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

This is the schedule for the Gathering forums / activities.  If any of 
the presenters have a conflict, please get back to me.  The Friday 
forums will be held in the conference room as usual.  A scheduling 
conflict makes the conference room unavailable to us until 3:00PM on 
Saturday so we will have flight line activities Saturday morning and a 
forum in the hangar with P.A. Saturday afternoon.  The Awards Ceremony 
will be in the conference room.


See you at Mt.Vernon.

Larry Flesner

KR Gathering schedule

*Thursday:*
First arrivals, fly-bys, catching up with old friends
--EACH EVENING-- Camp fire by the lake - story telling & root beer

Friday9:30AM – 11:00AM with break

- Mark Langford - Freebird plans progress update

- Larry Flesner

- Building and flying experimental aircraft" - E-AB registrations

- Building a straight KR the easy way

- Overview of W&B

Friday1:00PM – 2:30PM with breaks

-Adam Deem on Full briefing on my handling qualities flight testing and 
modifications to address handling qualities deficiencies


John Schaffer on Flat Spin Recovery, in a KR-2

Friday6:00PM – 7:00PM

Luis Claudio on SDS electronic ignition for Corvair and VW conversions 
as the uniqueness of this system is the ability to shape your power 
curve from starting the engine to Lean of Peak


Saturday9:30AM – 11:00AM with break

- KR overview on the ramp by KR pilots of their KR’s

Saturday1:00PM -- 2:30PM with break

-Jeff Scott & Mark Langford on engine Q&A including costs, parts & 
resources including Corvair, VW &and certified engines
-Jeff Scott on aircraft systems from the point of view of an A&P that 
may have to look at your plane


Saturdayevening

Optional group dinner - 6:00PM

Awards ceremony - 7:00PM


KR Gathering schedule.docx
Description: MS-Word 2007 document
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Re: KRnet> KR Wheel Fire Write Up

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/30/2024 9:11 AM, Mark Langford wrote:
My point is that high speed taxi testing has a very useful purpose, 
and may save your newly minted plane from untimely destruction before 
you ever get to experience the joy of flying it.


++

This is the kind of subject that makes great "click bait" discussions 
for the Gathering camp fire.  With Mark having more than 1000 hours of 
KR time and surviving 3 off airport landings (that he has told us 
about), no one is going to question his ability to fly a KR.  We must 
however be conscious of exactly what we are testing in high speed taxi 
test.   If any airplane to be tested can safely ,and with full control, 
be taxied from the hangar, navigate the ramp, taxi to the runway for a 
test, accelerate to near lift off speed, cut the power, remain under 
control for the slowdown to stop with a safe amount of runway left, you 
know all you need to know about the (ground handling) control-ability of 
the airplane.  If you feel certain the airplane can touch down on 
landing on any part of the runway you used to accelerate, it is ready to 
fly.  Any testing beyond that point is to train the pilot, instill 
confidence in the pilot that he can handle it, or increase the pilots 
comfort level and any additional testing may have undesirable consequences.


With three successful "first flights" and a forth "first successful 
flight" on an experimental,  I would never feel comfortable making a 
"crow hop" where you make the first takeoff in an untested airplane and 
then attempt to land it 3 or 4 seconds later.  On each first flight I 
took off, climbed to altitude and got comfortable with the airplane,  
did at least one straight ahead power off stall, then practiced a decent 
at approach speed. All were uneventful.


Anyone contemplating making a "first flight" should self-evaluate their 
comfort level and recent flight time.  If I were making rules to live by 
I would require the following.  No one makes a "first flight" or even a 
maintenance test flight with less than 250 hours total flight time and 
no less than 50 hours in the past 12 months.  The pilot must have a very 
good comfort level getting in to an airplane so it doesn't slow his 
reaction time when unexpected things happen.  If you're not comfortable, 
consider someone more capable to make the first flight.


The FAA came out with the "second pilot rule" several years back.  
Terrible thinking as far as I'm concerned.  Their intent, they say, is 
to minimize loss of control accidents.  So, on most small two place 
airplanes you intend to make the first flight at near gross weight with 
two souls on board at what is probably a more rear CG configuration.    
Why in heavens name would you do that?  If the PIC is not capable of 
controlling the airplane if experiencing marginal control ability, 
someone else should be making the test flight.


Bottom line, know what you're actually testing for, consider failure 
modes, self evaluate your abilities, and do so as safely as possible.


See you at the Gathering...and bring a list of topics to the 
evening camp fire.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> KR Wheel Fire Write Up

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/29/2024 4:52 PM, Samuel Ajayi via KRnet wrote:
There is nothing wrong with "high speed taxi test". 


+

I for one do not recommend long hours of high speed taxi testing on any 
airplane, new or one with 1000 hour of air frame time.   I consider it 
unnecessary exposure for an accident.  That however is not what happened 
here.  Let's put it in perspective.


Zach was not doing a high speed taxi test when he experienced the brake 
fire but it did point out a potential problem when using "plastic" brake 
lines.  Zach had installed a 360 degree camera on the left wing on an 
extended probe.  The weather was such as it restricted flight so he 
wanted to taxi and see how the camera performed.  From the video I saw 
it appears he taxied a mile or more from the hangar to shoot video and 
when he noticed a problem he was taxiing back to the hangar.  If 211LF 
did not have such positive steering control on the ground he most likely 
would have had to stop before the brake got hot enough to catch fire.  
The positive control allowed him to overcome the dragging brake as he 
headed for the hangar.  A tri-gear with brake steering would have only 
gone in circles.  211LF has passed the 1000 hour mark without a previous 
problem.  My home base for many years has an 8000 foot runway so long 
taxi runs are not normally a problem for 211LF.


The lesson to be learned here is "do not use nylon line all the way to 
the brake puck, regardless of the landing gear setup".   1 hour or 1000 
hours, you could have a problem.  The problem is most likely to develop 
in the early hours of testing with lots of taxi testing and braking but 
as happened here, it can happen any time. I flew for 800 hours without a 
fire extinguisher.  Zach was smart enough to carry one and it saved the 
airplane.  The only thing I would suggest, in hind site, is maybe never 
exhaust the complete fire extinguisher in one shot.  Save a bit it if 
re-ignites.


I spoke with the local fire chief and he claimed they arrived in 3 1/2 
minutes and there was still a hot spot (under the wheel cover? ) they 
detected with infrared camera and finished the job. 211LF survived to 
fly another day.  Some might suggest this was to fulfill the request in 
the last line of the poem it inspired titled "FLIGHT".


"My only hope, God bless these wings that I might fly again".

All ended well and 211LF is back in the air.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> KR Wheel Fire Write Up

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/28/2024 10:32 PM, Zachary Martine via KRnet wrote:

if you have nylon lines, make sure that they can vent heat,


+++

Thanks to Zach for sharing that story.  Flying 211LF for 20 years and 
800 hours I knew the shortcomings of nylon lines but considered it to be 
a problem primarily for tri-gear that used brakes for steering and did a 
lot of taxi test.  I used brakes so infrequently I never considered it a 
problem, never considering a dragging brake on long ground runs.


If you are using nylon lines all the way to the puck, replace the ends 
with metal at least to the point where a line break will not put fluid 
on the hot brake.  Second, use the least flammable fluid available.  
Last, as Zach recommends, carry a fire extinguisher.


Observation on life:

"The easiest lessons learned are from the mistakes of others.  The 
lessons longest remembered are from personal pain or financial loss."


See you at Mt.Vernon..

Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> 211LF New Perspective

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/28/2024 5:37 PM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:



After 5 minutes of looking, stretching the photo I finally figured out 
you were on left downwind for 18 in the Dillenger mill / tape factory 
area.





I thought I switched the address to Zach only.  Sorry bout that

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Congratulations Chris Pryce

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

While in my 8'X10' home library I was leafing through the August 2024 
(latest issue) of Kitplanes magazine.  A yee haa moment occurred when I 
turned to page 83 and found an awesome air photo of Chris Pryce in his 
beautiful Corvair powered KR2.  Way to go Chris !!  Many of us would 
like to see you and the KR at the Gathering.  I did notice that Chris' 
KR (N722KC) is listed in the FAA registry as a KR-25, whether by 
intention or error.  Which is it Chris and what military iron are you 
piloting now days?


Larry

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KRnet> Gathering camping

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/26/2024 1:29 PM, John Bouyea wrote:


Always a favorite is camping "down by the lake" for camp fires, root 
beer and BS late into the night!


There is room for RVs, coaches and tents. There is no charge to camp 
and a shower house is available.





I was reminded that John did in fact mention shower / bathrooms 
available for campers.  Having been married for 57 years I learned early 
on not to take anything for granted and things do change from year to 
year at Mt.Vernon so  I just got off the phone with Chris and he 
confirmed that the 2 bath / shower setup in the community hangar will be 
available again this year.  The entrance to the shower / bathroom hangar 
will be from the parking lot so a pass to the flight line  is not 
needed.  I will also post a tentative forum schedule in the next few 
days.  We got bumped from our conference room on Saturday morning till 
3:00PM by a scheduled family gathering but things will work out in spite 
of the conflict.


See you at Mt.Vernon

Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> Gathering camping

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/25/2024 7:54 PM, lee vandyke2.com wrote:
If you want the full KR, gathering experience for the money of the 
hotel, you can go to a local Walmart pick up a tent and an air 
mattress and hang out in the campsite. Still take a shower at the 
airport and clean up so much more of an experience. Then donate the 
tent to a charity or the Boy Scouts.


Lee Van Dyke




While not specifically mentioned on the the Gathering "camping" web 
site, a bath and shower ( a double as I recall ) in the "community 
hangar" has been available to campers during the Gathering.  I will 
confirm that in the near future.


Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> Drury Inn discount code

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/24/2024 5:02 PM, Jeff Scott wrote:
The discount falls under SRT Aviation (the FBO at Mt Vernon), and it 
will be helpful if you give them the discount code 318724 to get the 
discount. Once applied, I got a double room for $112/ night.


+

Jeff, thanks for adding that info.  I was not given that code, just 
"aviation discount".  I'm sure SRT Aviation at the airport would 
appreciate a thank you for the motel discount when you purchase fuel.  
What you save at the motel you can spend on fuel.


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Gathering motel

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

After spending several hours going through motel reviews for the 
Mt.Vernon motels and looking for a cheap place to stay, reading reviews 
containing phrases like "bed bugs", "dirty rooms" "poor check-in", 
"druggy hangouts", I decided to bite the bullet and go with #1, the 
Drury Inn and Suites.  $50 a night more but I only get out of the house 
once a year.  I called them direct, Stephanie spoke fluent English, but 
I was shocked to learn their prices were $30 more than advertised on the 
net by third party and I hate to deal with third party.  When I 
mentioned I would be in town for an event at the airport, Stephanie said 
"wait a minute, let me find the airport rate".  To my amazement the 
"airport rate is $20 cheaper than the third party rate.  $112 a night + 
a total tax for three nights of $43.  They are rated the #1 motel in 
Mt.Vernon of 13 motels.  One caution, they advised me that they will be 
doing renovation on their kitchen during that period from like 9:00am to 
5:00pm, a time slot I won't be there.


So, I'm booked at the Drury at Mt.Vernon on the 12th, 13th, and 14th.  
If anyone flying in stays there I will offer free rides to and from the 
airport.  (depart by 8:00, home by 10:00)  If anyone decides to book, 
call them direct at 618-246 5201 and ask for the "aviation rate" of $112 
a night as quoted by Stephanie, the manager.


Larry Flesner



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Re: KRnet> Poor man's Learjet

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/21/2024 8:43 AM, n357cj via KRnet wrote:
I did the trip to Corona in 2015 for the gathering and for over 4000 
miles the best wind I saw was no wind for about a hundred miles on th 
eway home.. all th erest of the trip was head wind.

Joe Horton,


+

I met Joe in Arkansas to make the rest of the trip to the California 
Gathering from Illinois.  It was those winds that made me decide to 
return home and miss the only gathering I've missed since 1990.  Winds 
at the next planned stop in Oklahoma were causing tumbleweeds to pile up 
and I didn't want my KR to be a part of the pile.  Joe, with his 
tri-gear, even had trouble at the Oklahoma stop.  Steve Glover knows how 
winds can trash a KR.


See you at Mt.Vernon.

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Speaking of Gatherings

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Anyone wishing to host the 2025 Gathering at a location near you, or any 
location for which you will serve as host, it would serve you well to 
make the invitation now, on the net, giving the sales pitch so future 
attendees can consider the invitation before voting for the 2025 
Gathering location at the 2024 Gathering banquet.


Make us an offer we can't refuse.

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Speaking of Gatherings

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Anyone wishing to host the 2025 Gathering at a location near you, or any 
location for which you will serve as host, it would serve you well to 
make the invitation now, on the net, giving the sales pitch so future 
attendees can consider the invitation before voting for the 2025 
Gathering location at the 2024 Gathering banquet.


Make us an offer we can't refuse.

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Gathering motel

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

For anyone attending the Gathering and staying at a motel, which motel 
did you pick.  I live 50 miles from Mt.Vernon but will stay 3 nights in 
town for convenience and timing.  Anyone flying in and not camping at 
the airport,  I could be your ride to and from the airport.  Advise me 
by the weekend. Other attendees might like to know also.


Thanks.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Gathering needs

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/16/2024 7:40 AM, shafferj45...@twc.com wrote:
Mark Langford, If you are looking for advice, on how to stick to one 
project at a time, to completion, don't ask me. I need the same seminar.



I need to attend a seminar on "How to concentrate on one single 
project and stick to it until it's FINISHED", so are there any 
behavioral experts out there who want to give that seminar?


Mark Langford
++



I'm certainly not a therapist but I would suggest that anyone with this 
type of concern include at least three words in any action plan they 
employ, " prioritize, focus, and limitations. "


A. "Prioritize" the tasks  (write them down for clarity)

B. "Focus" on the task or tasks given priority

C. Recognize your "limitations" in that you can only do one thing at a time

Given enough time you may be able to accomplish them all.

One of my "Observations on Life" is:

"I’ve reached the point in my life where I understand why a Sage is 
usually an old person."


Have a good day, keep on building, and see you at the Gathering...

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> Gathering forums

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/12/2024 9:07 PM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote:
Those both sound very interesting.  I would encourage both of you to 
come prepared to do a presentation.

-Jeff Scott
Arkansas Ozarks



Thanks to all that replied with an offer to participate.  We generally 
have 4 time slots for forums, 10:00/2:00 on Friday and Saturday.  I 
think we could actually fill another slot that we've never used and that 
would be 6:30 / 7:300 on Friday evening that would still leave time for 
the campfire story telling.   That would give those traveling thousands 
of miles to attend the greatest exposure to building and flying a KR.  
Those ideas and a ramp overview given by each pilot about the KR they 
flew to the Gathering will more than fill the schedule.


Time to break the news to the family that you will be attending the 
Gathering, make motel reservations unless you plan to camp on the field, 
get the KR in shape for the trip, check the tires on the vehicle and do 
an oil change, buy a clean pack of underwear, and whatever else needs 
doing before the big event.


Larry Flesner
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KRnet> Gathering needs

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Netters / Gathering attendees,

We are trying to insure the details needed to make for a great Gathering 
experience are all covered.  Several have stepped to the plate with bat 
in hand so only a few important items remain.  Here is the list of the 
items that need to be covered.


Two trophies - People's Choice award and Greatest Distance Flown award 
(in a KR to the Gathering)  Anyone willing to design / purchase these 
awards will be re-reimbursed.


Forums - we have no forums scheduled.  If you are planning to attend 
please indicate the types of forums you'd like to see presented and we 
need someone to present these forums.


Door prizes -  If anyone has any items they'd like to donate as door 
prizes at the Saturday night banquet, let me know


The goal is to insure that everyone that attends gets to experience real 
flying KRs, gain the information they need to work on their project, and 
leave with the motivation to finish.


See you at Mt.Vernon..

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> 2024 Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/7/2024 4:37 PM, Chris Collins via KRnet wrote:


Hello KR Family:

I am hoping this post goes through as this is my first attempt.  I 
have the Board Room  reserved on Friday and Saturday for the 
gathering.  I also have the large Banquet Room reserved on Saturday 
after 3:00 p.m. (someone slipped in and scheduled a family reunion 
with the restaurant from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. on Saturday).  I 
believe we can make the Board Room suitable for the inside activities 
on Saturday.


I have plenty of firewood and tables for registration/sales.  Please 
call me anytime at (618) 315-5452 if you have any questions or concerns.


I look forward to seeing everyone in September!

Chris Collins – KMVN

(618) 315-5462

+


Chris,

Thanks for the reply.  Your leadership , the great facilities of the 
Mt.Vernon airport, and the hospitality of the folks at Mt.Vernon, are 
the primary reasons the K.R. community keeps returning to Mt.Vernon for 
the annual Gathering since 2004.  Your efforts as airport manager show 
in every detail of the airport facilities and right down to your e-mail 
on a Sunday afternoon. The group looks forward to returning, year after 
year.


Thanks to you and your staff from the KR community.

Larry Flesner


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Re: KRnet> 2024 Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Mark,

My concern too.  I also don't hear anyone making any plans / 
scheduling for the Gathering.  I thought I made it clear to the 
"planning group" that I'm on the sidelines this year after 20 years of 
hosting or co-hosting.  I'll be 80 come February and it's time for the 
"kids" to take over.  Other than John, I've not heard any voices or 
seen anyone raise their hand.


Get the hours flown off.  I hope to see that bird at Mt.Vernon.

Larry
++



I thought I corrected the address for that post to go to Mark J. only.  
As it is already out there, someone might want to communicate with the 
Bonnie Cafe to confirm we, the Gathering, can hold our banquet meal in 
the Conference room and arrange for set-up, confirm with Chris Collins 
that the Gathering will have complete use of the conference room for any 
forums we might want, plan and secure leaders for the forum, arrange for 
a P.A. (from me) in the conference room for forums / banquet, arrange 
for a P.A. (from me) on the flight line if attendees want an overview 
from each builder on the KR's that attend, arrange for awards if wanted, 
sounds like John has apparel covered, check with Chris to insure 
firewood at the lake,   desk for apparel sales and registration forms 
(if wanted) and extra table for sale items, 
.X..X .


I'll help where possible but if I were capable of hosting again I'd also 
still be flying 211LF. 🙁 This will be Gathering #34 for me, every one 
since 1990 except the one in California.   Let's make the Gathering 
interesting and informative enough to justify people traveling from 
across the U.S. and around the world to attend.  Let's not let the 
Gathering fade away to lack of effort.


See you at Mt.Vernon.

Larry Flesner

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KRnet> 2024 Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 7/6/2024 8:07 AM, mark jones via KRnet wrote:

67 days to go till the Gathering.
11 people registered to attend Really? Can't we do better than that?
Only 7 planes so far?  And that is if I get WonderBird through the 
test flight stage before the gathering.

++



Mark,

My concern too.  I also don't hear anyone making any plans / scheduling 
for the Gathering.  I thought I made it clear to the "planning group" 
that I'm on the sidelines this year after 20 years of hosting or 
co-hosting.  I'll be 80 come February and it's time for the "kids" to 
take over.  Other than John, I've not heard any voices or seen anyone 
raise their hand.


Get the hours flown off.  I hope to see that bird at Mt.Vernon.

Larry

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Re: KRnet> Wash day

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Get some wheel covers that cover the entire wheel and brake assembly.  
Drag in that area gets quite high once you get to 130 knots.  Expect a 5 
to 10 knot increase.  Don't make any changes with the prop until you 
have wheel covers.  As the speed doubles the drag squares !!


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Battery follow up

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/21/2024 11:13 AM, Randall Smith via KRnet wrote:
I have one of those installed in my thorp T18. I left the master on 
and ran it dead. I could not get it to charge on a regular charger 
after that.


+

I learned the lesson the hard way years ago and it has been re-enforced 
with my hours at the battery store.  Any (most all) chargers that claim 
to be "automatic" will not start charging a "totally dead battery", zero 
or less than a volt.  The circuitry in the charger needs to recognize 
that it is connected to a battery.  The best type of charger is a manual 
/ automatic combination charger.  Start the dead battery on manual 
setting then switch to automatic.  A plan B for a dead battery with an 
automatic charger is to hook up the automatic charger to the battery and 
plug it in.  At that point simply "jump" the battery with another 
battery so the charger turns on and then remove the "jump".  The charger 
output will remain on  to charge the battery once it's output is activated.


Store employees told customers that the battery had to have at least 4 
volts to turn on the charger.  I questioned that based on personal 
observations so I called the manufacturer. They indicated that almost 
any voltage would turn on the charger, they just picked 4 volts to be 
conservative.


So, totally dead battery, automatic charger, just hook up the charger 
and do a momentary jump on the battery.  Be advised that each and any 
time a battery is drained to near zero volts it's life has been 
shortened by some percent.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Lipo Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/14/2024 8:19 AM, Adam Deem via KRnet wrote:
There is a YouTube channel run by a guy named Will Prowse who does 
some great testing on batteries including testing them and tearing 
them apart to see what actual BMS the manufacturer is using.




Its obvious there are members of the KR net that have more knowledge and 
understanding of recent technology then many of us are capable of 
understanding.  Bottom line on this "battery" discussion is that we 
should not be using technology in our airplanes that we don't fully 
understand, know how to use correctly, and recognize and design around 
any failure modes.


Accepting all that,  fly safely everyone..

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Lipo Battery/Lithium wives tales

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/13/2024 10:58 PM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote:

I once heard or read that it was lithium that they added to
the atomic bomb in WWII to increase the yield. As atomic weapons were
not a settled science at that point they added too much on one test and
they nearly wiped out a few observers.


+

My timing was off 10 years or so.  It apparently was the Castle Bravo 
test in 1954 that the engineers lack of understanding of the reaction of 
Lithium 7 that nearly took out some engineers.  They were rescued by 
helicopter as I recall .  At least that's how I recall the event being told.


Jeff, with your background, could you possibly come up with a nuclear 
reactor to power the KR?  I'm not sure what the benefit would be as I'd 
still have to come down to pee.  🙂


Larry


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Re: KRnet> Lipo Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/13/2024 4:53 PM, Jeff York via KRnet wrote:
the myth that there is so much new tech in Lithium Ion. Bunk...it's 
the same as it was 40 years ago. The changes are in the BMS systems. 


++

There are some changes in the battery technology chemistry they claim is 
safer, lithium iron phosphate (?) for one but I'm not a chemist or an 
engineer.  I once heard or read that it was lithium that they added to 
the atomic bomb in WWII to increase the yield. As atomic weapons were 
not a settled science at that point they added too much on one test and 
they nearly wiped out a few observers.  For any engineers / scientist 
with up to the minute knowledge,  which are the safest lithium / ?? 
products on the market today?


For our professional or volunteer fire fighters, what is being taught to 
fight lithium fires now days?


Does anyone on the net fly with a "burn bag" in case their smart phone 
catches fire or perhaps the iPad you use to navigate?


https://brimstonefireprotection.com/products/copy-of-battery-explosion-fire-containment-bag-small-tablet-phone

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Lipo Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Sorry about the "3 posts".  They appeared to not be going through and I 
kept re sending.  It was like the duck with the hammer and the caption 
says "hit any key to continue".


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Lipo Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/12/2024 8:36 AM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:


I'm by no means an expert but does your "dynamo / alternator/ 
whatever" need to see battery voltage to have an output?  If so and 
the battery shuts off, poof !!


++

After thought, I'm guessing your "master switch" that energizes the 
master solenoid  is connected to the main buss so if the battery shuts 
off voltage to the buss it's like turning off your master switch.  You 
must be running electronic ignition.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Lipo Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/12/2024 8:13 AM, mark jones via KRnet wrote:
Only to again shut down after a few minutes of running. Why is this 
happening? Is it due to the Dynamo? Why wouldn't my engine keep 
running just off the Dynamo.




I'm by no means an expert but does your "dynamo / alternator/ whatever" 
need to see battery voltage to have an output?  If so and the battery 
shuts off, poof !!


Many people claim good success with the new technology but I see a lot 
of "new technology" returned to the store in failure mode. I'll take an 
AGM battery and duel mags over the new technology and smile from wheels 
up to wheels down.  Let the bikers / 4 wheelers / boaters test the new 
technology and not in my airplane at 5000 feet.


Again...YRMV...

Larry Flesner


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Re: KRnet> Fuel pumps.

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 6/11/2024 4:58 PM, Roger via KRnet wrote:

There is nothing more magical; no; more irritating than a clattering
pump when you are taxiing back to the hangar thinking; is that the
engine making all that noise?  Of course not. It’s that damn fuel pump.
I’ve been trained to ignore that sound. That didn’t answer your
question……
Roger




Sounds like you need to check the batteries in your noise cancelling 
headset.  Those pumps come with different output pressures so pick the 
appropriate pump for your system.  The pumps I installed in 211LF 20+ 
years ago have in excess of 1000 hours now.   I tested them for possible 
back flow and installed them in parallel without check valves.


As always.YRMV

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Re: KRnet> Mystery airplane

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 5/19/2024 10:09 PM, David Maultsby wrote:


RV6

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows


*From: *Jeff Scott via KRnet 
*ubject: *Re: KRnet> Mystery airplane

Hmm. I recognize that as the same plane that used to show up on the 
insurance flyers that were being sent out in the mail.  I called and 
asked for a rate, but they didn't want to insure me.


 
++



That airplane in the ad was the KR that Jeff Scott built and flew off 
the mountain top in New Mexico for many years.  Here is a photo of the 
complete airplane taken at the Gathering in Mt.Vernon.


Larry Flesner

jeffscott2_500x375[1].jpg
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KRnet> Mystery airplane

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

June 2024 Kit Planes, page 45, uAvioni add.

Who's / what is the mystery airplane (tail dragger) in the photo on the 
right edge of the page.


First to respond with the correct answer gets a gold star for knowing 
their airplanes.


Larry Flesner


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KRnet> Batteries, more final thoughts

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

One thing that was not really discussed in the "battery" posts was 
"reserve capacity".  After starting power (CCA - cold cranking amps) , 
reserve capacity is #2 in importance.  The engine started fine but then 
what happens when the alternator / charging system fails.  If you are 
running electronic ignition, flat screen panel, radios, GPS, cockpit 
lights, charging your cell phone, and more, how low will the battery last?


Reserve capacity explained:

To calculate the reserve capacity of a battery, it must first be fully 
charged. Manufacturers draw 25 amps of power from the battery at 80°F. 
When the voltage drops below 10.5 volts, they stop drawing power. The 
duration of time this process takes is the battery's reserve capacity, 
which is measured in minutes.


The PC680 is a very popular battery in experimentals.  Here are some of 
it's numbers.


OEM Part Number PC680
Voltage 12 Volt
Cold Cranking Amps rating at -18°C (0°F)170
Reserve Capacity 25Amp Draw 24

Whatever battery you are using or intend to use, find out what the 
"reserve capacity" is, determine what systems you will need to make a 
safe landing, calculate the total draw in amps of those systems, and now 
you can calculate and know in advance how many minutes you have to find 
a safe landing site.  Allow a safety margin.  The more critical 
electronic systems you have, i.e. electronic ignition, electric fuel 
pumps, the greater your need to identify a charging system failure when 
it happens and know immediately what systems you can shut down and how 
many minutes you have to find a safe landing site.  Suggestion: Have a 
warning system (idiot light) to identify charging system failure and a 
placard saying "land in X minutes".  Also, realize that "reserve 
capacity" deteriorates with battery age.  Did the starter "hesitate" on 
the last start up? Is the battery fully charged or did you have to jump 
start on the last startup?


None of this is rocket science.  Get the info and know the answers 
before it happens so you can avoid the panic and survive to tell us all 
about your near death experience. 🙂 "There I was, above a cloud deck at 
10K and d#m*, the alternator fail light came on, bright as the sun! 
If you survive you are allowed to embellish the story a bit as most of 
us are inclined to do.


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KRnet> Batteries, final, final, thoughts

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Many airplane builders were never fortunate to have even basic 
electronics and often basic electrical issues / questions will be as 
challenging as brain surgery would be to all of us.  I'll throw out a 
very simple way for you to answer many questions you have in your KR or 
you home or shop.


Jot down this basic formula and stick it in your wallet or paste it on 
the back side of your contact lenses.  If you've never had basic 
algebra, ask you kid or grand kid to show you how to use any two to 
determine the third.


P=power in watts

I=current in amps

E=voltage


P = I x E   Knowing any two will give you the third.   so I = P/E,  
E =P/I   This works for AC or DC electrical circuits.


P (power in watts) = I (current in amps) X E (voltage).  If you know the 
voltage and current you can determine the power


I (current) = P (watts) / E (voltage)  If you know the power and voltage 
you can determine the current


E (voltage = P (watts) / I (current)   If you know the power and current 
you can determine the voltage


Example: a 100 watt landing light (incandescent ) on a 12 volt battery 
will pull 8.33 amps (P (watts) / E (volts) = I (current) Now you know 
the wire size and breaker size to use.


Example:  your radio transmitting at 5 watts pulls .42 amps just to 
transmit.  P (watts) / E (volts) = I (current)


Example: a 100 watt bulb in you home will pull .87 amps  (P (watts) 100 
divided by E (voltage) 115 volts = I current .87 amps



Lesson 2:  The greater the voltage or current the brighter the sparks ! 😮

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KRnet> Batteries, final thoughts

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Finally, on the batteries we use in the airplane, car, portable radio, 
GPS, cell phones, etc., we want the hottest (most powerful) battery 
available.  But, there is no reason to go overboard , pay more money 
than necessary, if you have unnecessary capacity that you don't use.


You airplane / car / mower/ motorcycle/ etc. battery will be rated in 
CCA (cold cranking amps).  That indicates how many amps the battery can 
deliver for 30 seconds in 0 degree F temp before the voltage drops to 
7.4 volts.  Rule of thumb is 1 CCA for each cubic inch displacement of 
the engine.  More is generally better but no need to pay double for 
twice as much as you need.  The benefit of excessive CCA in our airplane 
is there will be more reserve capacity if the alternator quits and 
possibly  the excess capacity will keep the electronic ignition working 
to the nearest airport or with magnetos keep our radio or flat screens 
running to a safe landing.


Smaller cells / battery packs are generally rated in MaH (Milli-amp hour 
= 1/1000 amp) or amp hours or they seem to be going to watts on newer 
batteries.  With these cells / packs more is almost always better unless 
the price is outrageous.  A/AA/AAA/ nickel metal and the smaller lithium 
type cells will always list MaH as in 1.2 volts / 800 mah or on lithium 
3.6v / 2800 mah or on some drill packs they may list in amps, 2.0 , 3.0 
etc.  18 volt 2.5 amp.  Those listing watts is still and indication of 
power (P=IxE ), power in watts = volts X amps) and you can compare one 
to the other.  An 18 volt X 2.0 amps would be 2000 mah and an 18 volt 
pack rated at 36 watts (watts / volts) would equal 2 amps or 2000 mah.


One example of more is not always needed is a customer bringing in AA 
battery packs used in emergency lights that are rated at 500 mah for me 
to rebuild.  I can rebuild with 800 mah cells and the customer is 
getting a pack with 50% more energy that when the lights were installed 
years ago.  There is no reason for me to rebuild the packs with 2700 mah 
cells and cost the customer several times more than necessary.  
Understanding how batteries and cells are rated lets you decide what 
your needs are and spend accordingly.  With you buns on the seat at 5000 
feet,  more is almost always better.


Larry Flesner


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Re: KRnet> Battery / correction and more

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 5/16/2024 2:11 PM, Tristan Vincent-Philpot wrote:

What type of lithium batteries are they?
LiFePo4 are the don’t catch fire, just smoke type.
Other types of Lithium batteries can be much more volatile and I 
wouldn’t put them anywhere near an airplane.


Tristan




I didn't check but I'm guessing they are probably LiFePo4 or some of the 
newer safer chemical makeup that is not as dangerous. There is a reason 
you can't ship Lithium batteries on passenger carrying aircraft.


I'm also not sure how these were being use but I believe they were used 
in marine use like a trolling motor or similar.


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Re: KRnet> Battery / correction and more

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 5/16/2024 2:11 PM, Tristan Vincent-Philpot wrote:

What type of lithium batteries are they?
LiFePo4 are the don’t catch fire, just smoke type.
Other types of Lithium batteries can be much more volatile and I 
wouldn’t put them anywhere near an airplane.


Tristan




I didn't check but I'm guessing they are probably LiFePo4 or some of the 
newer safer chemical makeup that is not as dangerous. There is a reason 
you can't ship Lithium batteries on passenger carrying aircraft.


I'm also not sure how these were being use but I believe they were used 
in marine use like a trolling motor or similar.


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Re: KRnet> Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 5/15/2024 3:26 PM, Mark Jones via KRnet wrote:
Some batteries are now coming with a built in BMS. Battery maintenance 
system. Mine has one and I have already seen it work. It will not 
allow the battery to discharge past a certain point.  There is an 
internal cut off switch.  I was draining my battery by cranking the 
engine with fuel valve off ( by mistake) and all of a sudden I had no 
battery power. Ten seconds later it came back up but needed charging. 
Slapped a lipo smart charger on there and it’s good as new.


Mark Jones
Oldsmar, Fl


+

All "rechargeable" lithium batteries have a circuit board that monitors 
charging, discharging,and temperature too hot /cold. Even the small 
rechargeable cells similar to an "A" size battery will have a mini ckt 
brd the size of your pinky fingernail, usually concealed under wrap on 
the  + end.  Your lithium powered drill can drive a 3" screw in to solid 
oak and the next time you pull the trigger it's dead.  The CKT BRD will 
not allow it to discharge below a specific voltage level (30% ?) or the 
charger will not turn on to recharge the pack.  Any multi-cell pack will 
be monitored for balanced cell charging.  Pack too hot or too cold and 
you get a "bad pack" flashing light.  The technology of these battery 
packs, yes your 12 volt battery is still a pack, multi-cells, that is in 
no way similar to the black plastic containers with lead plates and acid 
and you must insure they are compatible with the system in which they 
are installed.  Each type of battery has it's own unique characteristics 
/ requirements / failure modes.  Know what they are and proceed accordingly.


Here is a photo of a simple little 3 -18650 cell pack and the ckt board 
(BMS) .  Your 18 volt drill pack will have 6 of these cells.


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Re: KRnet> Battery

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 5/13/2024 9:55 PM, Luis Claudio via KRnet wrote:
I've been having battery issues to the point that I am on my second 
battery


My previous batteries were lawn and garden 330 CCA type, both failed 
with 6 months of service. I finally bit the bullet and bought an Earth 
X LiFoPo battery (a little pricy but...) I installed it today and will 
test it out tomorrow.


Does anyone have experience with the Earth X batteries or did I jump 
from the frying pan into the fire?


Luis


+++

The cheap lawn tractor batteries are not the most rugged battery on the 
market.  The Battery store has customers lined up to replace them every 
spring.  The biggest failure rate is due to lack of charging, used once 
a week and sets all winter.  The lithium technology has advantages, 
primarily weight, but most of the time, like in our use, we are mixing 
technologies that may not work well together.  When considering a 
battery you must match the load side with the charge side and the charge 
side must match the battery characteristics.   For long term reliability 
I would fly with nothing other than an Oddessey AGM battery.  18 years 
and 800 hours on Oddessey without a single issue.


As always, YRMV...

Larry Flesner

P.S. Magnetos are a great battery backup. 🙂
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Re: KRnet> Inspection

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 5/12/2024 7:46 AM, victor taylor via KRnet wrote:

Congratulations Mark! Another KR is born.
Victor Taylor


+

Vic,

The birth of a KR is a memorial event but it appears this one is still 
in "labor".  Let's hope the birthing goes well. 🙂🙂


Way to go Mark..

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Flutter

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/27/2024 4:58 PM, Rich Parker via KRnet wrote:
This is very interesting study on flutter. Its from 2001 however 
accelerometer technology has advanced exponentially since then


++

Thanks Rich.  I wish we would have had "accelerometers" 60 years ago 
when I met my wife. I wasn't sure at the time what was happening but I 
think  I went in to flutter mode.  Thankfully I survived and it's been 
full speed ahead for 56 years !!!


Larry Flesner

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KRnet> weather central usa

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I've been watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZDOFX_KEL0  (Ryan 
Hall, yall) for the past 2 hours watching a tornado outbreak in the 
general Omaha, Nebraska and Tulsa, Oklahoma area of the USA.  I hope our 
KR friends like the folks at Great Plains and Linda Bennett in the Omaha 
Nebraska/ Red Oak , Iowa area and Dan Diehl and friends in the Tulsa 
area are all safe and don't experience and storm damage.  They just 
announced 10 tornadoes warnings in progress.


Mother nature is upset today.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Mystery Motor

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/23/2024 1:08 AM, mplaneman via KRnet wrote:


It's a 1917 Lawrance A3


+++


https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/excelsior-lawrance-3-horizontally-opposed-2-engine/nasm_A19560078000

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> 2024 Gathering Registration

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Go to :


http://www.krgathering.net/    click on "registration"

Also, I think John updates manually so you may not get an immediate 
response to confirm your registration.  Patients, 
please



Larry Flesner
+



I just got a post from John B. that the www.krgathering.net site has a 
problem with "registration".  John is on a camping holiday having too 
much of a good time and will fix the problem on his return.  I'm sure he 
will advise when the fix is complete.  Stand by


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> 2024 Gathering Registration

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

Can't believe the 2024 Gathering is nearing...! I missed seeing the 
email for the registration somehow, so can you please share it with 
us? Assuming it's the same location in Mount Vernon IL, right?

Dr. Hsu




Go to :


http://www.krgathering.net/    click on "registration"

Also, I think John updates manually so you may not get an immediate 
response to confirm your registration.  Patients, please



Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> KR clothing for sale

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/15/2024 5:20 PM, Zachary Martine via KRnet wrote:

I'll take the suit, hit me up offline at 207.604.3007 thanks!

+



Finally, after 1000 hours, someone will be dressed appropriately while 
flying 211LF.   Good move...


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Vne for the Freebird

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/15/2024 12:40 PM, Oscar Zuniga via KRnet wrote:


I for one would be very interested to learn how the FAA requires a 
certified aircraft's Vne be determined and also how aircraft designers 
work out that number and then flight test to it.


+++

Research would indicate the designer sets a speed , Vd, (velocity dive), 
the aircraft is tested to that speed to insure no vibration or flutter, 
and then Vne is set at 10% below that number as a safety margin.  Lots 
of variables there in testing like was the air calm or turbulent, 
aircraft weight, were the controls "bumped" to test for flutter, etc.


We would probably be amazed how many times we fly on the edge of 
disaster without knowing it.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Vne for the Freebird

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I'm guessing that is more "general" than safe or correct.  The plans 
for the KR2 calls for balanced ailerons with a 200 mph red line.  I 
also had a friend get his legs beat up with rudder flutter in a 100 
mph little bi-plane of some type.  Just as Ralph Nader declared the 
Corvair "unsafe at any speed", so too can unbalanced control surfaces 
be unsafe at any speed, totally dependent on design.  Several KR's 
have been flight tested beyond 200 mph, some by accident, without 
balanced control surfaces but is your KR identical in control surface 
size, shape, weight, distance from hinge point to T.E., and identical 
cable tension? I've watched model aircraft disintegrate in flight from 
control surface flutter and it took about 2 seconds.  Without testing 
we can only hope the designer knew what he was doing and follow the 
plans.


Larry Flesner
+++



Don't overlook the trim tab either.  A loose or sloppy trim tab is 
capable of flutter also.  It was a loose or broken elevator trim tab on 
the P51 at the air race that took several lives.  I went with a servo 
trim tab on the elevator of 211LF to eliminate the slop in a long 
adjustment cable.  If you can hold the elevator and wiggle the trim tab, 
fix it.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Vne for the Freebird

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/14/2024 12:19 PM, Adam Deem wrote:
If I recall correctly, the 200mph VNE is because that is the generally 
accepted maximum speed assuring a reasonable flutter margin for 
unbalanced flight control designs.


Adam Deem


+

I'm guessing that is more "general" than safe or correct.  The plans for 
the KR2 calls for balanced ailerons with a 200 mph red line.  I also had 
a friend get his legs beat up with rudder flutter in a 100 mph little 
bi-plane of some type.  Just as Ralph Nader declared the Corvair "unsafe 
at any speed", so too can unbalanced control surfaces be unsafe at any 
speed, totally dependent on design.  Several KR's have been flight 
tested beyond 200 mph, some by accident, without balanced control 
surfaces but is your KR identical in control surface size, shape, 
weight, distance from hinge point to T.E., and identical cable tension? 
I've watched model aircraft disintegrate in flight from control surface 
flutter and it took about 2 seconds.  Without testing we can only hope 
the designer knew what he was doing and follow the plans.


Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> Vne for the Freebird

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/14/2024 2:59 AM, Steve Loebs via KRnet wrote:


So, my question is how are you guys defining Vne? IAS or TAS?


+++


Until someone posts a more definitive answer I'll post what I assume to 
be the general knowledge on the subject.  The only VNE limit I ever 
recall seeing or hearing is the KR2 plans book that simply states "VNE 
is 200 MPH".   How that was determined and is it IAS or TAS,  nobody 
knows except maybe Ken Rand.  To my knowledge no changes were made to 
VNE with the KR2S supplement, the new airfoil, or any other dimensional 
changes made in the 2S. As every KR is different in some way the way the 
VNE is actually determined is in phase one testing of each individual 
aircraft. There is a lot of "experimenting" in the design / testing of 
"Experimental aircraft".  I suspect the Freebird will use the same 
numbers unless someone with a plans-built Freebird wants to do some 
ligament testing. The only testing I'm aware to have ever been done, 
other than phase one testing of each aircraft, is the new airfoil that 
was wind tunnel tested at the University of Illinois.


This is a photo taken at about 300 feet during the decent on a low pass  
in 211LF with Mark Langford in the right seat as I recall.  I'm pointing 
to the 200 mph indicated on the ASI.  The color markings are not 
"official" speeds but speeds I felt comfortable with.  The "white" range 
is for the speed brake and the "yellow" range is the speed I felt 
comfortable with in rough air.   The 3/16" wire wrapped bolt below the 
compass is the temporary fix for a broken T-handle on the pull starter 
and not an indication of the build quality of 211LF. 🙂  Zach, the new 
owner, was up flying yesterday watching the needle on the ASI spin 
around the dial and the T-handle was repaired long ago.


Larry Flesner
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Re: KRnet> last years Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/2/2024 7:28 AM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:


If anyone has photos / stories from lasts years Gathering, please send 
to John Bouyea at  j...@bouyea.net  so he can update the Gathering web 
page for last year.  There seems to be a void in the records.


Thanks.

Larry Flesner 



On 4/2/2024 7:28 AM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:
If anyone has photos / stories from lasts years Gathering, please send 
to John Bouyea at  j...@bouyea.net  so he can update the Gathering web 
page for last year.  There seems to be a void in the records.


Thanks.

Larry Flesner 




On 4/2/2024 7:28 AM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:


If anyone has photos / stories from lasts years Gathering, please send 
to John Bouyea at  j...@bouyea.net  so he can update the Gathering web 
page for last year.  There seems to be a void in the records.


Thanks.

Larry Flesner 

++

On 4/2/2024 7:28 AM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:


If anyone has photos / stories from lasts years Gathering, please send 
to John Bouyea at  j...@bouyea.net  so he can update the Gathering web 
page for last year.  There seems to be a void in the records.


Thanks.

Larry Flesner


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Re: KRnet> Who is the owner of this folding wing KR?

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 4/4/2024 9:07 AM, ROBERT HARTMAIER via KRnet wrote:
It does have a nice overall profile.  Can't seem to find a 
registration number anywhere?


http://www.krgathering.net/images/Gathering2018/IMG_8411.JPG

This is from the 2018 Gathering page. I am curious how the builder 
did the folding wings.


-


That KR 1 was built by Dennis Waller, Marion, Illinois.  Dennis is a 
"some-times" member of our local builders group.  If he is at the 
meeting tonight I'll ask him to post some info to the net if he wants to 
share.  To my knowledge that airplane has never flown.  I believe it was 
brought to the airport and possibly engine run but I was never fortunate 
enough to be at the airport if and when it happened.   It has a three 
cylinder engine of unknown (to me) origin.  Dennis has built several 
airplanes but I'm not sure he has ever flown any of them.  I recall he 
was a flight instructor at one time.


Film at 11:00..(no, I don't actually have film. That's 
an old newscaster line to indicate more on the story on the nightly news 
cast.  I just thought I'd answer before the question was asked..)


Larry Flesner
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KRnet> last years Gathering

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

If anyone has photos / stories from lasts years Gathering, please send 
to John Bouyea at  j...@bouyea.net  so he can update the Gathering web 
page for last year.  There seems to be a void in the records.


Thanks.

Larry Flesner

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Re: KRnet> prop size

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 3/27/2024 2:25 PM, Phillip Matheson via KRnet wrote:

APP 69x 68 using now 2300  and 2500 if I drop the nose


++

Phil,

Can you get the prop maker to cut this one back to the 60 or 62 inch 
diameter.  I think the Sterba 60X64/68 range is the perfect all purpose 
blade for the 0-200.  I'm assuming your 0-200 is stock.  If you want to 
spend more money and go high compression and electronic / programmable 
ignition you can probably spin the props you have.  RPM is directly 
proportional to dollars spent. Zach mentioned that 211LF has shorter 
wings.  They are shorter by only about 8 inches total due to the tips I 
built.  Not a major change from the stock RAF48 KR wing.


good luck...

Larry Flesner

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