KR> Full Diehl gear schematic

[JAMES DUFF]

Do we all need to read all this abusive name calling again?
Is the KR community actually just full of keyboard warriors enjoying the safety 
of being distance away to write things that would get them punched if they said 
it to to the recipient's face?
Grow up for goodness sake.
Mark L kick me off the group if you decide that me getting annoyed with all 
this bull is worse than the crap that goes on every time nvAero is mentioned. I 
can live without this ...
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Wed, 2 Nov, 2016 at 21:32, Steve G. via KRnet 
wrote:   Blah blah, blah blah blah. 

Steve Glover

Sent from my electronic leash. 

> On Nov 2, 2016, at 13:58, Robert Benson via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> Steve you are lying.? I ordered the gear through you over the phone? you told 
> me you had everything but the strut which had to be heat treated and would 
> done in 45 days.? I E-MAILED YOU;? I? PHONED YOU? numerous times.? you did 
> not reply to any of my phone calls;? e-mais; nor did you? tell me I needed to 
> order it on line.? A simple phone call would have resolved this issue.? If 
> you want to see an idiot LOOK IN THE MIRROR.
> 
> 
> 
> rebenson44 at hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> From: KRnet  on behalf of Steve G. via KRnet 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 1:12 PM
> To: KRnet
> Cc: Steve G.
> Subject: Re: KR> Full Diehl gear schematic
> 
> Bob you're an idiot!? There are zero orders in my system for gear. I told you 
> then if you wanted to place an order to go online and place it so we have a 
> record of it. I have 1 open order for Chris Pryce and an exchange on main 
> gear for Matt.? Since you do not leave messages and I do not have an email 
> from you, and you feel the need to come on here and complain about things 
> that are not quite true don't bother placing an order now because you will 
> get nothing from me.
> 
> Steve Glover
> 
> Sent from my electronic leash.
> 
>> On Nov 2, 2016, at 12:28, Robert Benson via KRnet  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have tried to get in touch with Steve.? I ordered the Diehl nose gear 
>> assembly from NVaero about 3 months? in inago.? I was suppose to be ready at 
>> that time.? He doesn't answer his phone or his e-mail.? like his buddy W. 
>> Wynn..? i would also like a copy of the nose gear;? i have given up on Steve.
>> 
>> Thank you in advance, if thereis a fee for schematic let me know.
>> 
>> Bob Benson
>> 
>> Phone#209 354 4823
>> 
>> 
>> rebenson44 at hotmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: KRnet  on behalf of Global 
>> Solutions via KRnet 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:14 AM
>> To: KRnet
>> Cc: Global Solutions
>> Subject: Re: KR> Full Diehl gear schematic
>> 
>> Can I also request a copy.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Stan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-11-01 10:37 AM, n357cj via KRnet wrote:
>>> Cody,
>>> I have to scan it , I can do that in the next day or so and email a zip 
>>> file to you of the full Diehl instalation instructions.
>>> Joe Horton,
>>> N357CJ
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "KRnet" 
>>> Subject: KR> Full Diehl gear schematic
>>> 
>>> Can anyone help me in my search of finding a blueprint showing the 
>>> installation details of the Diehl gear on my kr2? I have tried Steve at 
>>> nvaero multiple times but still no response by phone or by email. aNY help 
>>> would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>>> Cody CramerMiddleburg, FL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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KR> kr2 airplane

[JAMES DUFF]

I know the EA81 quite well. I don't think it's an engine I'd seek out to be 
honest.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Thu, 2 Jun, 2016 at 20:02, Chris Prata via KRnet 
wrote:   the ad says Subaru EA81 engine, which is water cooled.



> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> 
> Kelly, Hot water heater in a KR2??? Also, why would you want to heat HOT 
> water?
> Patrick Driscoll
>
 ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? 
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KR> Lets try that again...

[JAMES DUFF]

This is the P51 low-altitude bailout I previously mentioned and which Colin 
also described.
https://youtu.be/xctYWSuwoYA
I'm not sure how robust the weight argument against a parachute is against a 
context of many builders having already reconciled a near 50% increase in empty 
weight for their KR2 over design by adding gadgets, bigger engines etc. 10lbs 
for a parachute is nothing. As Colin says, it's personal choice but I'd sooner 
have it and hopefully never need it than have time to contemplate going in hard 
with an aircraft I'd rather have abandoned.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Thu, 12 May, 2016 at 4:33, colin hales via KRnet 
wrote:   As I said, I
read what is written and mostly stay stub. That is until I read something that I
know myself is 100% factually incorrect and that might effect the decision of
someone trying to make a very personal choice. Then I just think it not proper
or correct that miss information is bantered around. I feel a need to put
things right. Therefore, if full
details are not known about the topic with 100% confidence, then you shouldn't
really say anything especially when safety matters and personal losses are
involved.



Gentlemen,? let us all agree that you
don?t have to look far before you read of many KR2 in flight failures. 



NTSB Identification: WPR11FA155? quote : The rapid
descent was probably initiated by the separation of about half of the vertical
stabilizer as a result of severe turbulence while the airplane was near the
location of the final radar return. The departure of a portion of the vertical
stabilizer and pieces of the rudder would have resulted in the pilot?s inability
to control the airplane, followed by a rapid descent and subsequent in-flight
breakup.



KR2 G-BOLZ in
the UK, broke up in the air, admittedly after a mid air
collision that killed three of my friends.



But these are
extreme cases.? Anyway it doesn?t need to
be an inflight break up that causes you to want to get out and pull a string.



We all know
that the last reported radio transmissions from Ken Rand were, 



 At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last 
transmission was received:
"I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!"



Another Kr pilot
carried out this unwise manoeuvres detailed below, 



 the
pilot initiated an intentional spin, throttling the engine to idle, pulling on
the carburetor heat, and increasing the nose up attitude of the airplane until
it stalled and entered a spin to the left. During the first few rotations the
engine quit, and the propeller stopped turning. After several rotations the
spin stabilized about 20 degrees nose down, and remained in the steady state
until impact. During the descent the pilot was observed attempting various
control inputs without effect.



A canopy latch
coming undone, is enough to open a sideways hinging canopy and have it detach
in flight. With the disturbed airflow over the tailplane, it makes the aircraft
very difficult to control.



So it does not
need to be structural failure of our beloved planes that makes one need to
think a little more. Had these four pilots been wearing a parachute, what would
have been the outcome and their actions? The structural integrity of the KR2 is
not in doubt, but sometimes, certain factors negate this. But lets all agree not
to say there have never been any known in flight failures of any kind, as its
just not true.



I come from a
gliding back ground. I have worn a parachute through all of my flying of
gliders, therefore I am biased. it is compulsory in some clubs to wear chutes, 
due to the close proximity to other
gliders in thermaling flight. I?d never be without one personally after seeing 
three mid airs when racing gliders. But lets try
and keep this to facts and nothing personal. There are on average 30 mid air
collisions a year throughout Europe. Not everyone needs to get out, next to no 
glider pilots are
professional sky divers yet the success rate for getting out is very very high. 
Different
countries quote different figures.



An ?air
experience? member of the public who had never flown a glider before was taking
a flight in a K21 glider in England in 2009. The glider was hit by
lightning and the rapid increase in temperature of the air within the wings
blew them apart and the melting of the control tubes meant that staying in the
glider was no longer a viable option. The paying passenger hadn?t even been
shown how to use the parachute, just how to open the cockpit and undo his
straps. He worked it all out and landed uninjured. The pilot in the back 
sprained his ankle. Our BBC
made a documentary about it.



Glider pilots
in Europe are taught that if you can not get out
of the aircraft because of high wind forces keeping you in or the glider is 
spinning or out of control or your legs are
trapped in the straps, or under the instrument panel, just lean forward or try 
to
stand up and simply pull the cord. On many designs, this 

KR> parachutes

[JAMES DUFF]

The only crash I've ever witnessed personally was a mid air collision at low 
altitude (Douglas Skyraider vs Mustang). I was fairly convinced I was watching 
a fatal accident unfolding, but the unflyable of the two aircraft's pilot 
bailed in a steep dive at very low altitude and got a clean chute before 
disappearing from view. He was found sat in a field with a sore arm.
My wife was wife me and decided from that point on I'd only ever fly with a 
parachute. I'd much rather carry a 10lb insurance policy than rely on 
probability and statistics.
Best regards,
Jamie

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Wed, 11 May, 2016 at 16:22, Tommy Waymack via KRnet wrote:   Got to agree with all the ideas on this subject.Safety 
is an important
consideration in flying.I wish it were otherwise.Fly safe and keep
building.Tommy W.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Chris Prata via KRnet <
krnet at list.krnet.org> wrote:

> I believe my chute is a national 360, which I just checked weights 10.8lbs
> and is 1.75" thick.? at least thats the new specs for a 360. I can live
> with the 10lbs. In the unlikely event of a fire (which is what started the
> discussion), I will get out in time, believe that.
> Safety gear is a personal decision. Even if it just adds confidence, has
> value.
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KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[JAMES DUFF]

As Mike says.


If you're flying under UK law it needs to be built as per plans which is what 
the design has been assessed against, unless it's a KR2S in which case it's as 
per plans plus some mandatory modifications which the LAA will send you 
drawings of.


It is possible to modify from the plans, but mods need to be approved via a 
documentation package demonstrating by calculation their safety and integrity. 
Structural mods will also require physical load testing.


Dudley Pattison of the Swindon Aircraft Timber Company was good, but I hear 
he's trying to retire.


If built under UK law it needs to be built with Sitka Spruce and GL1 grade 
birch ply. You can use GL2 ply for non-structural stuff, but I can't think of 
anything non-structural on a plans-built KR2 off the top of my head.


I would most strongly suggest you heed Mike's advice and contact the LAA for 
advice before proceeding any further.


Regards,


Jamie

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Mike via KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:Mon, 2 Mar, 2015 at 8:06
Subject:Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

It certainly will be an issue if you expect to build and fly your KR under
the UK Light Aircraft Association's Permit to Fly arrangements. I suggest
you look on the LAA website and find a local inspector to guide you through
the system.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/inspectors/insp_home_page.html 

There are several UK builders who occasionally post here and might offer you
their advice.

Mike Mold

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio M.
Serrano Jr. via KRnet
Sent: 02 March 2015 00:22
To: Flesner; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

> How are you planning to use carbon fiber on the spars?? The plans call for
> spruce and ply only.
>
> Larry Flesner

I am deviating from the plans. I hope it will not be too much of an issue.

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KR> Nvaero

[James Duff]

Gents,

Let's not this escalate out of hand. I know we've spoken on the phone Steve and 
I know you're a good guy who works hard. Things do take a longer time may at 
first be expected from the outside though which is ok when one knows about it 
before hand but can worry a new customer not familiar with the pace of the KR 
"scene".

For what it's worth, I think it was a reasonable question from the customer and 
my personal opinion is that you perhaps reacted a little too drastically at 
first although I know you have your reasons. I think maybe the guy just wanted 
assurance that nvAero is all above board.

I really don't think it needs to get the the point of anyone being excluded or 
indeed you throwing in the towel.

Genuine best wishes intended to all :)

Jamie


Sent from Samsung Mobile

 Original message From: "Steve G. via KRnet" 
 Date:02/09/2014  14:35  (GMT+00:00) 
To: 'Mark Langford' ,'KRnet'  Cc:  Subject: Re: KR> Nvaero 

-Original Message-

"Mark" wrote

>Let's face it...KR builders are the world's cheapest aircraft builders by
definition.  >You don't go into the KR business with any hope of making a
profit...you do it to >support other builders.

 
Yeah, I've just about had enough I don't day much on here because A - I
don't have time for the BS and B - I don't always have nice things to say.
Please do not mistake my "good natured demeanor" as internet courage, I can
assure you it is not.  If you meet me I am very congenial and play well with
others until someone decides to change the rules. Then stand by...  

I do this mess because I believe in what the design stands for.  A dirt
simple design that performs well and allows the average joe to build and fly
his own plane. The majority of people who select this design isn't because
it is necessarily the best plane out there, but it is what we can afford and
certainly the best bang for the buck hands down!

What people don't realize is the KR business DOES NOT pay for itself!  I am
out of pocket every month for the size of hangar and expenses it takes to
keep this thing going. I am the primary one fabricating or orchestrating the
parts for orders since my Nephew/ business partner was stationed elsewhere
with the military so things are a bit slowing to be fulfilled than I would
like. I am fortunate enough to have Marc Baca to let me abuse him around the
hangar for all kinds of tasks that I just can't get to. 

If you have ordered from our website (which is a little outdated due to time
constraints since I have to do that too!) you receive an immediate order
confirmation in your email. When the order is being fulfilled or being
shipped I have to go into the back office and update the status manually.
Sometimes I just don't have time which I will get to shortly. Plans are a
whole other dynamic. 

When I can I take phone calls but mostly I am at work on my real job. People
bitch about not being able to contact us but seldom or NEVER leave a
message.  Emails work better.  Sometimes I miss those and it takes me a bit
to get through them. I can tell you that a nasty message will get you
nowhere fast with me. Those who know me can vouch for my lack of political
correctness.  

My Life - Not a sob story as I have done it mostly to myself.  I run 3
companies, 4 if you count nV Aero. I have a construction firm, environmental
testing and remediation firm, and commercial/ residential property
inspection company. I personally do between 25 - 40 property inspections a
month. Environmental inspections and remediation vary, and I currently have
3 sizable construction projects going with three in the wings that would
like me to start yesterday. I put on between 100 - 150 miles a day on my
truck that gets around 10 - 12 MPG due to the size I need for work. I have
taxes, payroll, insurance, writing proposals, invoicing, babysitting
employees, and a host of other crap to deal with on a daily basis. And to
top it off, for the past several months I'm spending far more time at the VA
hospital than I care to. 

Then we have nV Aero. We started this thing thinking we could actually bring
the KR back to life. Our intention was to improve things that needed
improvement, add some new products, and generally support the KR builders
who needed parts and supplies. We have had our share of road blocks along
the way. We were flooded out multiple times losing thousands of dollars in
equipment, parts and tooling before moving to Chino. Most would have closed
up. I'm either stupid or too stubborn (you decide) to give up so we pushed
on. We have a build out only partially completed in our hangar since we
spend more time making or fulfilling parts orders when I can be there. We
have people offering to provide parts copied from our tooling, assholes
selling .pdf plans out of Texas, Canada, and Russia, and people on this net
suggesting to people they buy those products.  Do you really think this 

KR> waf material

[James Duff]

You wouldn't expect crushing. If the wood is crushed, you've over tightened the 
bolts.

I'd like to point out that the metrinch is a particularly useless unit of 
measurement. Inches and fractions is archiac but manageable. Metric is robust 
and intuitive. Inches with decimal places is just asking for mistakes IMHO.


Sent from Samsung Mobile

 Original message 
From: jon kimmel  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:13/11/2013  19:22  (GMT+00:00) 
To: KRnet  
Subject: Re: KR> waf material 

The as5048 section shows 2.16 for in board.? Add two 3/32 webs and you get
2.3475.? I measured mine and they came up to closer to 2.39...but the
distance between the wafs was closer to 2.30...I had a little crushing.
With the inboard and outboard thickness per plans the interference would be
just 1/32...I wonder if crushing was taken into account?? The thinner
outboard spar wouldn't crush as much as the inboard.

https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/
https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale
On Nov 13, 2013 12:38 PM, "ppaulvsk at aol.com"  wrote:

> Where I'm getting my measurements? from are from the AS5045 drawings.? Not
> from the plans. The fwd center? spar caps are 2.16". Add the web material
>? you come up with 2.253". This would be the same for the outboard? spar
> also. The AS5045 outboard spar is .22"? wider.? So I think it would be best
> to take it off from the outboard spar.? The AS5045 aft spars are only .193
> wider. I think I would shim there and not trim.
>
> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
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KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?

[James Duff]

Stainless properties are very different to 4130. It is inferior in pretty much 
every way that one might be interested for this application, besides corrosion 
resistance. Quite worrying really that people who frankly don't know what 
they're talking about do this on critical parts.


Sent from Samsung Mobile

 Original message 
From: Adam Tippin  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:29/10/2013  19:00  (GMT+00:00) 
To: KRnet  
Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS? 

Is stainless stronger than 4130?
On Oct 29, 2013 2:42 PM, "Pat and Robin Russo" 
wrote:

> I have seen, on more than one occasion, Stainless Steel WAF's. And at
> first glance mistaking them for Aluminum.
>
> -Original Message- From: Teate, Stephen
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:39 AM
> To: 'KRnet'
> Subject: Re: KR> WHY? ALUMINUM WAFS?
>
>
> "it's likely the fittings were painted, so the color wouldn't be obvious"
>
> I can't remember the last time I saw a set that weren't painted. A magnet
> would at least let you know they are steel but not necessarily 4130.
>
> Stephen Teate
> Paradise, Texas
>
> **
> The information in this email is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient,
> you should delete this message.? Access to this email by
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> is prohibited and may be unlawful.
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KR> UK approval for KR2 gear legs?

[JAMES DUFF]

Sorry Simon,

  I know know of Grove gear being fitted to UK KR2s. That's certainly what I 
have up here in Aberdeen. By going for the Jabiru instead of the VW lump you'll 
save around 50lbs before you even start.

  I've never heard of the proper Grove gear bending on landing, but I do know 
that Airhover in the UK supplied cheap copies of these in 1/2" thick Aluminium 
bar instead of the proper 3/4" spec, and that these commonly failed.

  Get back in touch if you want any further info. I could use some 
encouragement on my own build

  FYI Colin Hales built G-BSTL with the Jabiru 2200 and Grove main gear, and it 
weighed 530lbs empty and is more than capable of carrying 2 people.

  Regards,

  Jamie

Simon Hazeldine  wrote:

".CHECK OUT THE GROVE GEAR."

Thanks Steve. Perhaps I should have given more detail. We already have an
aluminium spring bar type (Grove?) gear leg set but do not want to use
these. They are a bit too heavy for a UK KR and I'm told will bend under a
heavy landing which will require removal of the gear legs to straighten.
Obviously, we dont intend to make heavy landings but :-) I know they
have been used on other UK KR2's but most are restricted to single seat due
to weight limitations.

Would be keen to hear from any UK owners who have fitted Diehl or similar
gear legs and what has been cleared by the PFA for use?



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KR> A few questions before I buy the plans

[JAMES DUFF]

I'm surprised that no US builders consider the Jabiru 2200 engine

  Colin Hales in the UK built G-BSTL with a Type 1 VW, canned it in favour of a 
Type 4, junked that too and eventually settled on the Jabiru 2200 which weighs 
60kg (132lbs) all in with starter etc. It's putting out 85hp and his aircraft 
weighed 530lbs empty using a 14 gallon (That's Imperial gallons, not US 
gallons) header tank and dry wings.

  He flew G-BSTL from the UK to Australia with his girlfriend a few years back.

  My KR2 is getting the Jabiru too, and is on target for a very similar empty 
weight. (We're only allowed 900lbs MTOW in the UK for a KR2)

Robin Wills  wrote:
  G'day Dave.

You are as tall as me, but about 100Lbs heavier. I manage to fit in a
bog-stock KR2 but I fly(flew - before the gear retracted on landing) in
socks, no shoes.

Just going by your figures, you would be very close to a 1200Lb Gross
Weight, assuming a 600Lb Empty weight, which is difficult, although not
impossible to achieve.

There is an article by Neil Bingham about the KR2 and weight issues,
which basically states that the heavier the KR, the worse it flies. And
the more aft your CG, the touchier it is. His recommendation, along with
RR and countless others is to keep the plane as light as safely
possible, and enjoy what you have, ie a day VFR sport aircraft. If you
try to turn it into a long-range tourer you may well be disappointed
with its performance, both climb, cruise and stall.

If you were to fit your baggage locker in the forward deck, you need
wing tanks, which need pumps which add weight. Then you have your
Corvair engine, at 200Lbs, battery at 20, see how it adds up and eats
into your operating weight?

I can't help you with speed reduction vs width, although there are many
on here who can, but in all honesty, for the type of flying you want,
the KR2 would be marginal at best.

My KR2 is nearly 23 years old, I didn't build it, but am re-building it
after drastic surgical procedures instigated after the gear collapse,
and have removed many small items to get the weight down. Wing tanks
went, T+B and VSI went, fuel gauge is going (replaced with sight glass),
starter and alternator are going, to be replaced with a small battery
powered by a solar cell. Diehl gear in place of the original retracts,
to save me 15 lbs.
She weighed in at 630Lbs before the makeover and flew "well" and I am
hoping to have her weigh in at around 580lbs and fly "great" when she is
next airborne.

My personal opinion is if you want a fantastic little VFR plane that
will blow the doors off a 150, you would be happy with the KR, but, you
need to decide what it is you will use it for, how often you will use it
for that, and what performance compromises you are prepared to accept to
achieve that mission.

Cheers,
Rob

Robin Wills
Second Person, Pacific National
KR-2 19-4594, Ser# N111

krvia...@bigpond.com




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KR> A few questions before I buy the plans

[JAMES DUFF]

Can't deny that point!

  Having to save up for it myself infactnot going too well right now but 
I've got plenty other work to be getting on with - got no wings yet!!!

  I don't really see myself as having much option here in the UK though as the 
900lb gross weight is strictly enforced and they simply issue the Permit to Fly 
on the condition of single occupant only if it's too heavy - which kinda 
defeats the purpose.

  So, the Jabiru it will be. All £6,500 of it. At least it will take 
several V.P. props though, so I should be able to make the most of the plane's 
wide speed range whilst still being able to use our typically short grass 
strips.

D F Lively <riksh...@interl.net> wrote:
  Netters:

I'll second that.

Don


da...@alltel.net wrote:

> If I had the money, that is exactly what would be on my plane, or maybe the 
> 3300. It is just too expensive. I am sure that it is worth every penny, but 
> when there are VW and Corvair available for 1/4th the price, it is hard for 
> most builders to justify.
>
> From: JAMES DUFF 
>
> I'm surprised that no US builders consider the Jabiru 2200 engine
>
>
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Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Civil unrest in Franc e?=

[JAMES DUFF]

I'm fairly new to this group. Infact, this is my first post using the group 
email.

With regards to this and also other posts I've read I'd like to offer a 
newcomer's opinion, and I expect it to be treated as such too.

If this group used an online forum eg:
www.cougarforum.co.uk
of which I'm also a member I'd be all for such discussions. Such sites cost 
money however and KRNet uses this email group.

Some of us are primarily interested in the aircraft and issues related to 
building and operating it (issues such as the tragic death of Steve Jones 
excepted) but not interested in sifting through 400 emails in our inboxes 
trying to identify something relevant and something that isn't.

So in my personal opinion, and as a new builder who doesn't get time to access 
this email account often, I would prefer to keep posts on topic rather than 
covering issues I can read about in the news papers etc. Another topic which 
filled a page in my inbox was one on hypothetically building a KR using steel 
tube. Whilst this may be of interest to some, it definately isn't of interest 
to all members.

I feel it must be remembered that with this being an email group, everyone 
receives every post whether they care or not.

I must reiterate that if this were an online forum we could post off-topic 
issues all day and those who didn't care to read them could chose to ignore 
them. As it stands however, we are all hit with many emails which sometimes are 
not relevant and will enevitably be unwelcome to some members.

With respect,

Jamie Duff
Aberdeen,
Scotland

billsta...@peoplepc.com wrote:
Serge any thing you have to say about your situation is sufficiently unique and 
interesting to justify sending to all of us . Thank 
you very much. Bill Starrs (KR1 completed) Clarkdale AZ
- Original Message - 
From: "Serge VIDAL" 
To: ; "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:04 AM
Subject: Réf. : Re: KR> Civil unrest in France


Hi, Isaac, and welcome.

300 jumps? Hmm... puts you well ahead of me, with my 30-odd static line
ones. Maybe I should try and brag about the rest of the training I got in
Saint-Cyr (that's the French equivalent of West Point)? Nah! Any position
has it's counter, and here is not the place! Don't you agree? ;-)

Don't worry. Nobody intends to turn the KR List into a political forum.
But whenever one list member happens to be in a place that makes the news
(like New Orleans recently), well, news and enlightened opinions tend to
be welcome. Heated debates would be promptly censored by our zealous
moderator anyway, so they happen off list.

Around the world, the news media have grossly exagerated the extent of
this rioting, and misinterpreted the causes, too. So, I just tried to
explain what really happens here, from an insider's point of view.

Funny, for as long as I can emember, you're the first builder to introduce
himself by ethnicity (Incidentally, I just realized made the mistake of
revealing my 25% of Moroccan blood myself in that post, which will
probably attract a lot of prejudice, since brown is not exactly a color in
fashion!)

OK, case closed my side. Back to business. What are you building? How far
are you?

Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France





isaac milton 

Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
2005-11-15 04:37
Veuillez répondre à rousedabout; Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 2005-11-15 04:37


Pour : KRnet 
cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: KR> Civil unrest in France



Hi guys,

I'm building in Boise Idaho, am African American by
ethniticy, and was Army Special Forces for nearly 10
years... wounded in Panama in 89, relatively new
pilot, but have taken off 300 more times than I've
landed, so I feel comfortable with you guys. I enjoy
the threads, it's helped me a lot, and I spend most of
my evenings soaking it up. I'd appreciate,
respectfully, if you leave the political opinions
elsewhere, as any position has it's counter, and here
is not the place. Don't you agree?

Isaac Milton
KR-2 ROUSEDABOUT
Boise Idaho, USA


--- Serge VIDAL wrote:

> Hi, Phil, and all.
>
> Yep, I'm OK, the "civil unrest" is definitely not in
> my street. Pity,
> though, 'cause it would be a rare opportunity at
> taking potshots at the
> rioters! ;-)
>
> More seriously, the situation in France is quite
> simple: around all large
> cities, we have suburbs full of young Arabs and
> Africans, whose fathers
> came to France long ago when jobs were aplenty.
> There are also lots of
> illegal immigrants there, too. These guys probably
> represent more than 10%
> of the population now, although nobody knows for
> sure, because the law
> forbids to make statistics on an ethnic basis.
>
> In general, these populations failed to succeed,
> despite the faboulous
> help you get from the state (education is free, and
> of good quality;
> parents get monthly child education grants;
> unemployed people get generous
> pensions, and when these dry out, you get a "minimum
> income" grant