KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
Well written Pete and I see your point and theirs too. We are all subject to some type of authority and a well written proposal will go a long way to getting things done over there. Good luck Craig With the one and only KR2 Seafury www.kr2seafury.com --- On Mon, 8/29/11, pe...@heroic.co.uk wrote: > From: pe...@heroic.co.uk > Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair > To: "KRnet" > Date: Monday, August 29, 2011, 10:23 PM > In defence of the UK LAA, they have a > legal responsibility for all aircraft granted UK permits to > fly. > > The LAA represents the interests of UK fliers in many ways > including fighting an endless battle over loss of airspace, > EU rules harmonization. Whilst not perfect, the LAA largely > run by unpaid volunteers does a great job. > > If an aircraft crashes in UK, it always crashes close to > somewhere, so attracts a lot of media attention - leading to > all sorts of negative publicity for the LAA, this undermines > all the good work. > > The LAA engineering dept consists of 4 blokes who look > after all aspects of design build and maintenance of 2000+ > planes so time spent looking at one design proposal > affecting a single project has to be balanced again the time > needed by all the other work. For example an A/D for an RV6 > could affect a hundred or so planes. So you can see its not > so simple for the LAA to spend several days evaluating a > single use mod. > > The LAA engineering dept is funded by member subscriptions > and permit fees, so the cost of their work has to be born by > all members of the Association, so I hope you see why the > engineer says NO unless he gets a well researched and > documented proposal. > > Pete > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my > brevity. > > Patrick and Robin Russo > wrote: > > > Change the paragraph below to DOWNWARD FORCES FROM REPEATED > HARD LANDINGS > AND YOU HAVE IT. The fellow who wrote that paragraph below > hit it right on. > I could put a 400 pound/275HP chevy up front of my KR and > the final analysis > is I may not have an aircraft rated at more than 1.5-3 > "G"'s at > most.wether it's flying, landing or taking off. > > Also, the persons or organization that said they would not > allow a Jabiru > because "it is too powerful" has the obligation to > demonstrate or prove that > it is indeed so. It is an absurd statement without the math > and back-up data > to educate us. It is a "weight issue, not a power issue" > > > - Original Message - > > > It's the downward force of a hard landing that > might separate the engine > > > and > > firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it > through the air. That's > > why > > it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just > improving the load path > > from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall > (near the longerons) > > goes > > a long way to strengthening that setup. > > > > > _ > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
In defence of the UK LAA, they have a legal responsibility for all aircraft granted UK permits to fly. The LAA represents the interests of UK fliers in many ways including fighting an endless battle over loss of airspace, EU rules harmonization. Whilst not perfect, the LAA largely run by unpaid volunteers does a great job. If an aircraft crashes in UK, it always crashes close to somewhere, so attracts a lot of media attention - leading to all sorts of negative publicity for the LAA, this undermines all the good work. The LAA engineering dept consists of 4 blokes who look after all aspects of design build and maintenance of 2000+ planes so time spent looking at one design proposal affecting a single project has to be balanced again the time needed by all the other work. For example an A/D for an RV6 could affect a hundred or so planes. So you can see its not so simple for the LAA to spend several days evaluating a single use mod. The LAA engineering dept is funded by member subscriptions and permit fees, so the cost of their work has to be born by all members of the Association, so I hope you see why the engineer says NO unless he gets a well researched and documented proposal. Pete -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Patrick and Robin Russo wrote: Change the paragraph below to DOWNWARD FORCES FROM REPEATED HARD LANDINGS AND YOU HAVE IT. The fellow who wrote that paragraph below hit it right on. I could put a 400 pound/275HP chevy up front of my KR and the final analysis is I may not have an aircraft rated at more than 1.5-3 "G"'s at most.wether it's flying, landing or taking off. Also, the persons or organization that said they would not allow a Jabiru because "it is too powerful" has the obligation to demonstrate or prove that it is indeed so. It is an absurd statement without the math and back-up data to educate us. It is a "weight issue, not a power issue" > - Original Message - > > It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine > > and > firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's > why > it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path > from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) > goes > a long way to strengthening that setup. > _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
Change the paragraph below to DOWNWARD FORCES FROM REPEATED HARD LANDINGS AND YOU HAVE IT. The fellow who wrote that paragraph below hit it right on. I could put a 400 pound/275HP chevy up front of my KR and the final analysis is I may not have an aircraft rated at more than 1.5-3 "G"'s at most.wether it's flying, landing or taking off. Also, the persons or organization that said they would not allow a Jabiru because "it is too powerful" has the obligation to demonstrate or prove that it is indeed so. It is an absurd statement without the math and back-up data to educate us. It is a "weight issue, not a power issue" > - Original Message - > > It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine > > and > firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's > why > it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path > from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) > goes > a long way to strengthening that setup. >
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
Mark I have sent an email to Bill Marcy at the email address he used in the archives. I hope he still uses that email. Regarding the engine weight issue. We have incorporated extra longerons top and bottom on the forward part of the fuselage to deal with the extra load. However its no good without numbers, so I hope Bill can come up with some. Many thanks for your help. Peter Drake www.peterskr2s.co.uk - Original Message - From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:54 PM Subject: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2). Take a look at the archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" and you may turn up his address. RR should have his analysis that reports this info though. I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have it somewhere. There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann where he says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him. I'm betting RR knows how to get in touch with him as well. I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in mind when my 245 sounds heavy. It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's why it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes a long way to strengthening that setup. As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now. You can sift through the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of other details at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 894 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
Bill Marcy See kiddiehawk.org -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Mark Langford wrote: There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2). Take a look at the archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" and you may turn up his address. RR should have his analysis that reports this info though. I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have it somewhere. There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann where he says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him. I'm betting RR knows how to get in touch with him as well. I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in mind when my 245 sounds heavy. It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's why it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes a long way to strengthening that setup. As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now. You can sift through the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of other details at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com _ _ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
Hi Mark >From Jabiru http://www.jabiru.net.au/ 83.5 kg (178 lbs) complete including exhaust, carburettor, starter motor, alternator and ignition system Only thing missing is the 3.5 ltr of oil and the air box. It's hard to beat the Jabiru weight, the price helps lighten your wallet as well (double the weight saving) Regards Barry Kruyssen k...@bigpond.com http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2/ -Original Message- I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in mind when my 245 sounds heavy. Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
There's a guy named Bill Marcy (who I think is from Arizona or Colorado or somewhere out that way) that did some structural analysis for Rand Robinson in the 90's, and one of the things he said at the first OSH forum I went to was that his analysis showed that O-200s and "just about anything else that would fit" would be OK for the airframe of the KR2S, thanks to the beefing up it got at the firewall (as opposed to the KR2). Take a look at the archives (http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp) and search for "Marcy" and you may turn up his address. RR should have his analysis that reports this info though. I assume she paid him to do the work, so she should have it somewhere. There's a message from Austrian Christian Kogelmann where he says he has the flight envelope analysis from Marcy that details max gross weight, so he may know how to get in touch with him. I'm betting RR knows how to get in touch with him as well. I can tell you that my Corvair engine weighs right at 245 pounds complete, with everything it needs to run except fuel in the lines and electrons in the wires (that's carb, exhaust, airbox, generator, oil, etc), and on my first flight I tested the mount to 5 g's on the meter. I doubt the published weight for Continentals or Jabirus is absolutely "full-up", so keep that in mind when my 245 sounds heavy. It's the downward force of a hard landing that might separate the engine and firewall from the fuselage, not just pulling it through the air. That's why it's more a weight issue than a power issue. Just improving the load path from the mount to the outer edges of the firewall (near the longerons) goes a long way to strengthening that setup. As for Corvair hp, mine was rated at 110 hp at 4400 rpm, but that was with a different cam and I've got 15% more displacement now. You can sift through the stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/specs.html and find just about anything you want to know about the stock Corvair specs or the implementation that I'm running, with all kinds of other details at http://www.n56ml.com/corvair ... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
Hi Stef, According to Jabiru, ramp weight for the 3300 is 83.5 kg (184 lbs). This includes exhaust, propellor (2 blade wood), starter, alternator, carburetor, regulator, etc. Pretty much everything FWF except the mount and cowling. Not sure on teh corvair but from what I've read a typical installation looks like well over 240lb for the same items. Cheers, Tony King Queensland Australia On 28 August 2011 01:14, wrote: > > kr friens. > What is THE weight of both ? > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see > http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2 > > > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > Van: krnet-boun...@mylist.net namens Larry&Sallie Flesner > Verzonden: vr 26-8-2011 19:35 > Aan: Ronald Wright; KRnet > Onderwerp: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 > > > > > > > >Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, > > ++ > > I don't know of any KR's flying with an 0-320. The 0-235 and 0-290 > are the largest Lycombings I'm aware of. The only "KR" flying with > the larger engine was a TOTALLY re-designed airframe that was no > longer a KR. It made the Gathering at Red Oak, Iowa back about 2002 > or so and really wasn't all that fast for the horsepower. The > 0-320, in my opinion, is way over the top for a KR and would be > totally unsafe, in firewall weight and CG problems, if nothing > else. If there are no reliability problems, I think the J3300 would > be a great engine for a well built KR. Personally, I'd LOVE to drop > a Continental IO-240 in my KR. 125 hp fuel injected with basically > the same weight as my 0-200. I don't have that kind of money but at > least I can dream. :-) > > Larry Flesner > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
>What is THE weight of both ? >Stef +++ Jabiru 3300 = 180 pounds +or- Corvair= 220 pounds +or- Continental 0-200 = 230 pounds +or- Larry Flesner
KR> Jabiru 3300 weight vs corvair
kr friens. What is THE weight of both ? Stef Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2 -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: krnet-boun...@mylist.net namens Larry&Sallie Flesner Verzonden: vr 26-8-2011 19:35 Aan: Ronald Wright; KRnet Onderwerp: Re: KR> Jabiru 3300 > > >Regardless of the number of Corv / O320 examples flying, ++ I don't know of any KR's flying with an 0-320. The 0-235 and 0-290 are the largest Lycombings I'm aware of. The only "KR" flying with the larger engine was a TOTALLY re-designed airframe that was no longer a KR. It made the Gathering at Red Oak, Iowa back about 2002 or so and really wasn't all that fast for the horsepower. The 0-320, in my opinion, is way over the top for a KR and would be totally unsafe, in firewall weight and CG problems, if nothing else. If there are no reliability problems, I think the J3300 would be a great engine for a well built KR. Personally, I'd LOVE to drop a Continental IO-240 in my KR. 125 hp fuel injected with basically the same weight as my 0-200. I don't have that kind of money but at least I can dream. :-) Larry Flesner ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
