KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Mark Langford]

Somebody asked about having shims made.  One way to do it if it's not 
too bad it to cut them out of aluminum, which only requires a drill bit 
and a cheap tin snip from Harbor Freight.  I made these for N56ML, 
"temporarily", and like a lot of things, they ended up doing 2825 
landings.  So they do work.  Each of these two in the enclosed picture 
is .020" thick, and I estimate that each is good for about .9 degrees of 
toe-in or -out, camber, or the combination when overlapping (as in the 
photo).  The dotted red line denotes useless material (based on wear 
marks) that I shouldn't have been carry around all those years.

You can probably pick up aluminum from some airport scraps, or buy a 
1'x1' piece from AS for cheap...but then there's shipping.  Make sure 
you clamp the piece to the table when drilling...this stuff is thin 
enough to cut you.  I almost lost a fingertip this way when I was in 
college...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

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KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[John Martindale]

Hi Jeff

I did something similar. I just set the toe in and camber using those offset
washers as required between the axle plate and the leg bracket. Then I just
forced epoxy and flox into the gap until it squeezed out the other side. I
smeared the faces lightly with vaseline to prevent bondage. In situ poured
shims you might say :-)

One other thing..both toe in and camber will vary with aircraft weight
due to the offset angle of the gear legs.

And another..  You need to set both with wheels on ball bearing plates
because the friction of the tyres on hanger floor affects the results
depending on whether the aircraft is rolled forward or backward. 

Too whroo

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Scott
via KRnet
Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015 9:03 AM
To: smwood at md.metrocast.net; krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: Re: KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

You guys are supposed to be airplane builders with skills snip



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KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Jeff Scott]

You guys are supposed to be airplane builders with skills to build composite 
parts.  Fabricate a small box with the appropriate slant to it for the shims 
you need, then lay up a shim with the dimensions you need. If it's not quite 
right, you can grind, file or cut to suit yourself.  Do a test fit to see if 
it's right, then when you install it, bed it in a thin slurry of milled fibers 
for a no slip perfect fit.  If you have to go a bit oversized on the holes 
through the gear leg to get a proper fit (and keep the bolts straight), grease 
your bolts up with wax (so you can get them back out and backfill the holes 
with a milled fiber slurry.

Additionally, try to drill things so your bolts are straight and use a set of 
self aligning washers on the side where the head of the bolt or nut appears to 
be an an angle to the surface.  Self aligning washers are a pair of washers, 
one with a concave surface and the other with a convex surface. The concave 
surface of one washer sits on the convex surface of the second washer allowing 
them to cock off sideways from the bolt head and adapt to the surface of the 
gear leg.   When you pull a bolt down onto them with a hole that isn't normal 
to the head of the bolt, the two washers will swivel a bit to properly 
distribute the pull of the bolt onto the surface without side loading the axle 
attach bolt.  Just google "self aligning washers".

I used this technique to repair the landing gear on a GlasAir that had the gear 
badly misaligned, then the holes overdrilled and the bolts literally bent in 
the bolt holes hanging onto the axles.  

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Sid Wood]

Dave,
Sounds like you have already drilled the holes for the lower ends of the 
gear legs.  If not, clamp in place and drill the holes for the legs and 
brackets; no shims needed.  If so, try Aircraft Spruce 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/lg/axlesandaxlenuts_shims.html
 
Need to get more correction: get two or three kits and double up.  The "how 
to" guide on the AS page may be of some use. 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/axleShims.php
With the Whitman type spring gear (Diehl) what is the concern with camber?

Reversing the Diehl gear legs is not a practical thing to do.  The shapes of 
the gear legs for the tri-gear versus the tail-dragger are different and not 
interchangeable.  Using the tail-dragger legs for the tri-gear will set your 
main wheels 3-inches further forward from where they need to be.  The axle 
center should be 20 inches aft from the leading edge of the stub wing. 
Otherwise the airplane tends to fall on the tail when you climb aboard or 
dismount.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

From: Dave Acklam 
Due to my use of 'conventional Diehl gear-legs, reversed' to make a
tri-gear config, I need 7.5 degrees camber & 7 degrees toe in order to
track straight

The only source of pre-made shims I know of (Grove) sells them for 25/ea,
but only in increments up to 3/4-degree (Toe) and 2 degree (Camber).

Anyone have an idea on where to get larger-angle shims made?

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Dave Acklam]

I actually had an idea along these lines, as a solution to this problem...

If I were to stack enough washers under the axle-attach bracket to bring
the gear into alignment, coat the attach-bolts & bracket with grease as a
release-agent, and seal the bottom 3 sides with tape

I could then pour a suitable 'structural filler' (Hysol 960F, or (if we're
going to be redneck about it) JBWeld should work) in from the top and
create composite shims with a perfect clamping-surface...

That said, Mark L & everyone else seemed to be using fabricated metal, so I
thought I'd investigate that option first...

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Jeff Scott via KRnet 
wrote:

> You guys are supposed to be airplane builders with skills to build
> composite parts.  Fabricate a small box with the appropriate slant to it
> for the shims you need, then lay up a shim with the dimensions you need. If
> it's not quite right, you can grind, file or cut to suit yourself.  Do a
> test fit to see if it's right, then when you install it, bed it in a thin
> slurry of milled fibers for a no slip perfect fit.  If you have to go a bit
> oversized on the holes through the gear leg to get a proper fit (and keep
> the bolts straight), grease your bolts up with wax (so you can get them
> back out and backfill the holes with a milled fiber slurry.
>
> Additionally, try to drill things so your bolts are straight and use a set
> of self aligning washers on the side where the head of the bolt or nut
> appears to be an an angle to the surface.  Self aligning washers are a pair
> of washers, one with a concave surface and the other with a convex surface.
> The concave surface of one washer sits on the convex surface of the second
> washer allowing them to cock off sideways from the bolt head and adapt to
> the surface of the gear leg.   When you pull a bolt down onto them with a
> hole that isn't normal to the head of the bolt, the two washers will swivel
> a bit to properly distribute the pull of the bolt onto the surface without
> side loading the axle attach bolt.  Just google "self aligning washers".
>
> I used this technique to repair the landing gear on a GlasAir that had the
> gear badly misaligned, then the holes overdrilled and the bolts literally
> bent in the bolt holes hanging onto the axles.
>
> -Jeff Scott
> Los Alamos, NM
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Dave Acklam]

I bought the legs pre-drilled from another KRlister & at least so far,
other than the 7-degrees-each-side toe-out/8-degrees-camber-out alignment,
they don't seem to be causing trouble with balance on my particular
plane... In it's nose-lightest configuration (eg, fuel tank empty), I can
get in and out without disturbing the plane - although I haven't tried this
with any sort of baggage behind the seats...

They are also expoxied to the aluminum spar-attach mounts, so getting them
off and replacing them (Say, with sawn-in-half Grumman gear legs) would be
rather tough...

This does, however, mean that I am stuck with the hole-pattern I have
now...

If camber-out isn't really a big deal, then that would make shimming
easier



On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Sid Wood via KRnet 
wrote:

> Dave,
> Sounds like you have already drilled the holes for the lower ends of the
> gear legs.  If not, clamp in place and drill the holes for the legs and
> brackets; no shims needed.  If so, try Aircraft Spruce
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/
> menus/lg/axlesandaxlenuts_shims.html Need to get more correction: get two
> or three kits and double up.  The "how to" guide on the AS page may be of
> some use. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/axleShims.php
> With the Whitman type spring gear (Diehl) what is the concern with camber?
>
> Reversing the Diehl gear legs is not a practical thing to do.  The shapes
> of the gear legs for the tri-gear versus the tail-dragger are different and
> not interchangeable.  Using the tail-dragger legs for the tri-gear will set
> your main wheels 3-inches further forward from where they need to be.  The
> axle center should be 20 inches aft from the leading edge of the stub wing.
> Otherwise the airplane tends to fall on the tail when you climb aboard or
> dismount.
>
> Sid Wood
> Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
> 
> From: Dave Acklam 
> Due to my use of 'conventional Diehl gear-legs, reversed' to make a
> tri-gear config, I need 7.5 degrees camber & 7 degrees toe in order to
> track straight
>
> The only source of pre-made shims I know of (Grove) sells them for 25/ea,
> but only in increments up to 3/4-degree (Toe) and 2 degree (Camber).
>
> Anyone have an idea on where to get larger-angle shims made?
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Larry]

You may also check with aircraft salvage yards for shims. I've seen lots of 
them in years past on factory built airplanes. Mostly on tail drag airplanes. 
I've seen tiny and large and also large plus tiny on same axle to get the 
proper alignment.
Larry H

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Flesner via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> ..
>> 
>> The only source of pre-made shims I know of (Grove) sells them for 25/ea,
>> but only in increments up to 3/4-degree (Toe) and 2 degree (Camber).
> ++
> 
> Check with a local Ford dealer.  Ford used shims at one time to align front 
> ends on ford trucks.  I know they have them but whether they are useable for 
> landing gear is something you'll have to determine.
> 
> Larry Flesner 
> 
> __

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Flesner]

>..
>
>The only source of pre-made shims I know of (Grove) sells them for 25/ea,
>but only in increments up to 3/4-degree (Toe) and 2 degree (Camber).
++

Check with a local Ford dealer.  Ford used shims at one time to align 
front ends on ford trucks.  I know they have them but whether they 
are useable for landing gear is something you'll have to determine.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Dan Heath]

I got mine made at a machine shop, not cheap but perfect.



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-Original Message-





Anyone have an idea on where to get larger-angle shims made?

KR> Landing Gear Shims - Where to have made

[Dave Acklam]

Due to my use of 'conventional Diehl gear-legs, reversed' to make a
tri-gear config, I need 7.5 degrees camber & 7 degrees toe in order to
track straight

The only source of pre-made shims I know of (Grove) sells them for 25/ea,
but only in increments up to 3/4-degree (Toe) and 2 degree (Camber).

Anyone have an idea on where to get larger-angle shims made?