Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Yury Tarasievich]

On 01/17/2012 05:23 PM, Eike Rathke wrote:

On Tuesday, 2012-01-17 07:41:42 +0200, Yury Tarasievich wrote:



Actually, it'd be better to have possibility of switching off the
feature altogether, "across the installation", as the traditional
fractional part separator /comma/ tends quite often to be
substituted by the /dot/, in these times.


I'm not sure I understand. If you're saying that people tend to input
decimal numbers as #.# instead of #,# then better not define the D.M
date acceptance pattern to prevent confusion, and a #.# input will just
be a textual string. Is that what you meant?


No, no. Just that these times some people 
(who've taken pains to learn computer, for 
example) tend to use *both* traditional /comma/ 
and non-traditional /dot/ indiscriminately. Sort 
of, putting /dot/ in decimal separator place, 
because "it's so "in computer".


E.g., once upon a time I myself wanted a quick 
spreadsheet or something, and began to enter 
numbers with /dot/ ("what blessed difference 
does it make?"). Imagine an annoyment when my 
inputs were one by one converted to dates (what 
about user working on an installation without a 
favourite locale?) And then I had to hunt for 
the switch-off, because the first place I turned 
to was in Preferences->OOO->General, and there 
wasn't anything about this besides the 
"interpret two-digit year as".


Now, I've noticed that guys from ru_RU team 
requested "D/M/" and "D.M.", precisely for that 
reason, I believe (/slash/ is, of course, a 
traditional symbol for a fraction or division 
sign; single /dot/ is handier to have just as a 
fractional part separator).


But, in fact, both forms are somewhat 
counterproductive, because these 1) are not 
guessable and will require separate learning by 
the user (nobody without specifically learning 
those will enter one of the sequences 
deliberately), and 2) are anyway two digits away 
from the short form of the date (DD.MM.YY).


Of course, if the functionality is there, 
anyway, and has to be "fed" something, even such 
not-quite-intuitive forms will do. *In fact, I 
hereby request "D/M/" and "D.M." for the be_BY, 
please.*


But it would be ever so better to have a 
possibility for computer to not second-guess at 
all, as such guesses might even be culturally 
irrelevant.



Historically, it was often D/M (D in Arabic numerals, M in Roman).


With roman numbers that wouldn't work. We could define a D/M pattern,
but input would have to be in Arabic numerals.


No need to, as it was historical example, anyway.

Yury

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Aferkiw N Tamazgha]

Hello,

I don't understand ...

What I need to change for kab_DZ 

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Niklas Johansson <
sleeping.pil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I'm currently looking in to the Swedish (sv-SE) date-patterns. I'm not
> quite sure how to deal
> with a few things. In Sweden the official standard for time is "H.MM" (or
> "HH.MM").
> It is also very common and accepted to use the international standard with
> : as a
> separator. It is so common that it actually got changed to this i
> OpenOffice.org and
> inherited into LibreOffice.
>
> Is it possible to accept both . and : as separators?
>
> Common dateformats that LibreOffice doesn't support for Swedish include:
> D/M
> D/M 
>
> EU-standard (not seen that often but since were in the EU and all EU
> documents ,
> use this format it would be a good thing to support):
> D.M
> D.M.
>
> The SS-ISO 8601 standard -MM-DD is the most frequently used format and
> the current standard for Swedish in LibreOffice. Is it possible to support
> all
> these formats?
>
> When it comes to date acceptance I'd say that maybe D/M might be good to
> accept
> besides the ISO standard of course. I do not think that it is a good idea
> to accept
> the D.M though.
>
> I did a quick test modifying the sv_SE.xml but got stuck building
> afterwards.
>
> I suppose my later questions all depend if there is any possibility to
> support
> multiple separators.
>
> Thank you for any guidence
> Niklas Johansson
>
>
> Eike Rathke skrev 2012-01-12 14:43:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> In order to get rid of the annoying "accept every input as date that
>> might resemble some date in almost any locale" behavior I recently
>> implemented locale dependent date acceptance patterns that need to be
>> matched for date input, for full details see
>> http://erack.org/blog/**archives/8-LibreOffice-date-**
>> acceptance-patterns.html
>>
>> If in your locale input of incomplete/abbreviated dates shall be
>> allowed, this will need a  element be added to
>> locale data, for example in en-US it's "M/D" and in de-DE it's "D.M."
>> (both already in).
>>
>> Just mail me the pattern(s) for your locale, I'll add it then.
>>
>> Thanks
>>   Eike
>>
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Niklas Johansson]

Hi

I'm currently looking in to the Swedish (sv-SE) date-patterns. I'm not 
quite sure how to deal
with a few things. In Sweden the official standard for time is "H.MM" 
(or "HH.MM").
It is also very common and accepted to use the international standard 
with : as a
separator. It is so common that it actually got changed to this i 
OpenOffice.org and

inherited into LibreOffice.

Is it possible to accept both . and : as separators?

Common dateformats that LibreOffice doesn't support for Swedish include:
D/M
D/M 

EU-standard (not seen that often but since were in the EU and all EU 
documents ,

use this format it would be a good thing to support):
D.M
D.M.

The SS-ISO 8601 standard -MM-DD is the most frequently used format and
the current standard for Swedish in LibreOffice. Is it possible to 
support all

these formats?

When it comes to date acceptance I'd say that maybe D/M might be good to 
accept
besides the ISO standard of course. I do not think that it is a good 
idea to accept

the D.M though.

I did a quick test modifying the sv_SE.xml but got stuck building 
afterwards.


I suppose my later questions all depend if there is any possibility to 
support

multiple separators.

Thank you for any guidence
Niklas Johansson


Eike Rathke skrev 2012-01-12 14:43:

Hi,

In order to get rid of the annoying "accept every input as date that
might resemble some date in almost any locale" behavior I recently
implemented locale dependent date acceptance patterns that need to be
matched for date input, for full details see
http://erack.org/blog/archives/8-LibreOffice-date-acceptance-patterns.html

If in your locale input of incomplete/abbreviated dates shall be
allowed, this will need a  element be added to
locale data, for example in en-US it's "M/D" and in de-DE it's "D.M."
(both already in).

Just mail me the pattern(s) for your locale, I'll add it then.

Thanks
   Eike



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Milos,

On Saturday, 2012-01-14 20:39:42 +0100, Milos Sramek wrote:

> I found several incorrect items in sk_SK.xml. When corrected, may I send
> it to you, too?

Yes, of course.

> Is it somehow possible to test such file before sending it?

Only by building LibO, as the xml files are converted to binary data
during the build process. The mere syntactical XML correctness can be
checked with a validator, but that doesn't detect any problems regarding
content, see i18npool/source/localedata/data/locale.dtd


> Regarding Acceptance patterns. Currently, we have in Slovak:
> "11." converts o 11.02.12
> "11.2" converts to 11.02.12
> Which is OK, I just would prefer 11.02.2012

Then you need a different default medium format, currently FormatElement
with formatindex="20" has default="true", that needed to be
default="false" and FormatElement with formatindex="21" set to
default="true" instead.

For "11." and "11.2" you'd need to add

D.
D.M

though past user experience was that the D. input converted to date
sometimes was considered annoying, also D.M, but of course that differs
by cultural background.


> "11-2" also converts to 11.02.12, but I would prefer 2012-01-11
> Would that be possible?

No, only a full ISO 8601 Y-M-D date input will display as -MM-DD if
the locale's format is different.

> Both forms (with . and -) are OK according to
> Slovak standard, so it makes sense to have both these possibilities.
> In fact, no format is defined with the | |tag.
> Which one is used then? The default one?

As written in my blog article the default full date acceptance pattern
is generated from FormatElement formatindex="21", for sk-SK that's
DD.MM. so the pattern is D.M.Y

> In fact, can we have different default format for Cand and for Writer?

No.

> This makes sense for me - in Calc I find 11.02.2012 more appropriate,
> but in Writer
> "11. február 2012" should be prefered.
> 
> And the last one: In  "11. február 2012", "február" is in the nominative
> case. However we should use genitive: "februára". Is it possible to
> specify that?
> Currently, the misuse the Month tag
> 
>   feb
>   február
>   februára
> 
> but it leads often to nonsense.

That's now possible :-) see
http://erack.org/blog/archives/2-LibreOffice-possessive-genitive-case-and-partitive-case-month-names.html

  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Dean,

On Monday, 2012-01-16 18:16:25 +0800, Dean Lee wrote:

> For zh-CN, these patterns are commonly used by typists:
> 
> M-D
> M.D
> M/D
> Y-M-D
> Y.M.D
> Y/M/D

Note that "M.D" is not possible as it would be the input of a decimal
number, "Y.M.D" is fine. "Y-M-D" is the always accepted ISO 8601 input
format and doesn't need to be explicitly mentioned. Added all others.
I also added "M／D" with U+FF0F FULLWIDTH SOLIDUS as that is used as the
locale's date separator. And I added "Y年M月D日" and "M月D日" as well as
they are defined in the date formats, I hope that was correct..
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=605707652afebf0e5c90311adcc7767ebe807e45

Thanks
  Eike

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[libreoffice-l10n] Asking for permission to use your OOo 2.0 l10n document

[Andras Timar]

Dear Javier,

I would like to create a page on TDF Wiki
(http://wiki.documentfoundation.org) about how to add a new language
to LibreOffice. That page would cover all aspects of localization. I
would like to ask for your permission to use parts of your
documentation 
(http://www.khmeros.info/tools/localization_of_openoffice_2.0.html).
It would make little sense to link it from our page, because many
things have changed since OOo 2.0, so I'm thinking about an extension
/ rewrite of your work – specifically for LibreOffice.

Thanks,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Freek,

On Saturday, 2012-01-14 15:38:01 +0100, Freek de Kruijf wrote:

> For nl, if needed both nl_NL and nl_BE there are two patterns:
> 
> D/M and D-M

Added D-M to nl-NL
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=741282c6e8d82c31c534b2e30dbc4ba8ca21299e
and D/M to nl-BE
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=abfbda01c8faa06f7c97692c25be0e8419cd2c48

Thanks
  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Michael,

On Saturday, 2012-01-14 14:45:29 +, Michael Bauer wrote:

> For gd, the patterns are D.M, D/M and D-M (technically gd-GB but I
> think right now we've only got gd and aren't separating gd-GB and
> gd-CA)

We only have gd-GB.

Note that D.M can't be used as it would be a decimal number. D.M. would
be possible, but I don't know if that's used. I added D/M and D-M for
now.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=197c0ef041fb92ba08d6440258e59485c81214a2

Thanks
  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Modestas,

On Saturday, 2012-01-14 17:56:06 +0200, Modestas Rimkus wrote:

> please add M-D pattern for Lithuanian (lt). This should be converted into
> two-digit numbers and result in -MM-DD. Thanks.

Done
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=87b12c42717a3488cc179d07cf42ace2335aced4

Thanks
  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Serg,

On Sunday, 2012-01-15 19:11:54 +0400, Serg Bormant wrote:

> I think for ru_RU we need "D/M/" and "D.M.".

Note that ru-RU doesn't define any D/M/Y format, however, I added the
D/M/ input pattern as requested.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=054b910f72de25e085f1fd54e37118503cd5a527

Thanks
  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cannot find some strings in Pootle

[Andras Timar]

Hi,

2012/1/17 Cheng-Chia Tseng :
> 僅适用樣本 => 僅適用於範本
> 標准 => 標準
> 現代式，僅僅适用於公司 => 現代式，僅適用於公司
> 傳統式，僅僅适用於公司 => 傳統式，僅適用於公司
>
> Thanks for your kindly help! :)
>

Fixed, but it will not be in RC1. Remember to check it in RC2. :)

Thanks,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Cheng-Chia,

On Tuesday, 2012-01-17 12:22:17 +0800, Cheng-Chia Tseng wrote:

> For zh-TW, full date patterns are:
> Y-M-D
> Y/M/D
> Y.M.D

Y-M-D is the always accepted ISO 8601 pattern, and Y/M/D is already
generated from FormatElement formatindex="21", no need for those. Added
Y.M.D

> And incomplete date patterns are:
> M-D
> M/D
> M.D

With decimal separator '.' the M.D pattern is not possible, added the
other two. Also added "Y年M月D日" and "M月D日" as those are defined in
the format codes, I hope that was correct..

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=fa836f7bf0fcdab6029320bdf7830c561d5ea823

Thanks
  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cannot find some strings in Pootle

[Andras Timar]

Hi Michael,

2012/1/17 Michael Bauer :
> Oh, these are translatable? I had noticed that in the Gaelic localization
> they're in English but I assumed hard-wiring or something. What's the best
> way of getting them to you?
>

Yes, these are translatable, more precisely they are localisable. You
need not follow English strictly. Until we have proper l10n
documentation in TDF Wiki, please read
* http://www.khmeros.info/tools/localization_of_openoffice_2.0.html
and
* 
http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/localization/extras/How-To_Manual_OOo-Extras.odt

You can send localized files to me, I'll push them for you.

Best regards,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cannot find some strings in Pootle

[Michael Bauer]

Oh, these are translatable? I had noticed that in the Gaelic 
localization they're in English but I assumed hard-wiring or something. 
What's the best way of getting them to you?


Michael


 It is not in Pootle, but in
 extras/source/autotext/lang/zh-TW/template.bau. Please send me the
 correct string, I'll commit it for you.

 Best regards,
 Andras





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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Ankitkumar,

On Monday, 2012-01-16 13:06:50 +0530, Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel wrote:

> I just noticed that locale data apart from Date Patterns also needs to
> be updated for the language (Gujarati - gu_IN) I co-ordinate. Will it be
> possible for you to update everything together? I can pass the updated
> gu_IN.xml file.

Yes, of course, that's fine. If possible I'd prefer a diff against the
latest revision in the repository though instead of the entire file.
Always better in case other changes went in in the mean time.

  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Sveinn,

On Monday, 2012-01-16 08:29:48 +, Sveinn í Felli wrote:

> I think for Icelandic (is_IS) it should be "D/M/" and "D.M."

Done
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3cc4917c2df89d427ea9ae3fdba9e8a5c9df6371

Thanks
  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi leif,

On Monday, 2012-01-16 18:59:46 +0100, leif wrote:

> Same for Danish (da_DK):"D/M/" and "D.M."

Hmm.. sure? da-DK defines '-' dash as date separator.

  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANNOUNCE] Locale data date acceptance patterns, localizers HEADS UP please :)

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Yury,

On Tuesday, 2012-01-17 07:41:42 +0200, Yury Tarasievich wrote:

> For Belarusian, D.M with no more than two digits per part might do
> (is the two-digit limit "enforcable"?).

The pattern is just a prerequisite, if the number input doesn't form
a valid date it doesn't lead to a date even if the pattern was matched,
so anything like 32.13 already wouldn't be a valid date.

> Actually, it'd be better to have possibility of switching off the
> feature altogether, "across the installation", as the traditional
> fractional part separator /comma/ tends quite often to be
> substituted by the /dot/, in these times.

I'm not sure I understand. If you're saying that people tend to input
decimal numbers as #.# instead of #,# then better not define the D.M
date acceptance pattern to prevent confusion, and a #.# input will just
be a textual string. Is that what you meant?

> Historically, it was often D/M (D in Arabic numerals, M in Roman).

With roman numbers that wouldn't work. We could define a D/M pattern,
but input would have to be in Arabic numerals.

  Eike

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cannot find some strings in Pootle

[Cheng-Chia Tseng]

僅适用樣本 => 僅適用於範本
標准 => 標準
現代式，僅僅适用於公司 => 現代式，僅適用於公司
傳統式，僅僅适用於公司 => 傳統式，僅適用於公司

Thanks for your kindly help! :)

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Andras Timar  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2012/1/17 Cheng-Chia Tseng :
>> I found out that some Chinese (Traditional) translations have some
>> wrong characters, and wanted to correct them.
>>
>> [Edit] > [AutoText]> [Only for Templates]
>>
>> and other strings have "Only" word in the string.
>>
>> However, Pootle retuned no result for "Only for Templates" and even no
>> result for their corresponding Chinese translation.
>> How could I find them and correct them?
>
> It is not in Pootle, but in
> extras/source/autotext/lang/zh-TW/template.bau. Please send me the
> correct string, I'll commit it for you.
>
> Best regards,
> Andras
>
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-- 
Sincerely,
by Cheng-Chia Tseng

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