[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report

[Greater Worcester Land Trust]

I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the
language would be a great help to those working in it and on it.

I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can
break down technical concepts pretty well.

I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't
break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it.

Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice.

If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply
appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort.

Thank you.

Colin
On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer"  wrote:

> Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry...
>
> ---
>
> Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling.
>
> I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion
> so far.
>
> Let me try and go through them one by one...
>
> 1) Orthography
>
> Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve
> languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the
> really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not
> immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post
> spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually
> deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling.
>
> 2) Team size
>
> Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I
> also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC,
> and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more
> effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and
> effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been
> a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates
> around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single
> translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a
> team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology.
>
> 3) It's extinct or critically endangered
>
> Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium
> full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a
> society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in
> which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the
> next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized
> language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into
> German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck
> and it'll be all over the airwaves.
>
> Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it
> comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across
> languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even
> where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped
> in with a Romani language code in once instance.
>
> 4) Better to translate literature
>
> Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at
> translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no
> translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless
> at writing non-technical content.
>
> 5) Start with documentation/help
>
> No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a
> screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest
> in the same lingo too.
>
> As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web
> access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a
> soul-destroying task.
>
> 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing
>
> Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first
> need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus
> someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is
> not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a
> priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified
> their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just
> annoy everybody.
>
> In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree
> for one) not are they based on research.
>
> 7) Firefox
>
> That is actually the best alternative suggestion I've heard in this
> debate. It might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and
> Firefox are both must-haves really so it doesn't make that much of a
> difference which one you start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS
> versions now, would get you more bang for your buck faster though to begin
> with
>
> 8) Machine Translation
>
> Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and that's just
> the start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is
> a MT system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs
> 

[libreoffice-l10n] Bavarian and Nipmuck

[Michael Bauer]

Sorry for the delay in responding, Im travelling.
I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion 
so far.


Let me try and go through them one by one...


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report

[Mihovil Stanić]

dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org

09.12.2015 u 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust je napisao/la:

I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the
language would be a great help to those working in it and on it.

I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can
break down technical concepts pretty well.

I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't
break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it.

Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice.

If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply
appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort.

Thank you.

Colin
On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer"  wrote:


Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry...

---

Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling.

I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion
so far.

Let me try and go through them one by one...

1) Orthography

Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve
languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the
really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not
immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post
spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually
deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling.

2) Team size

Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I
also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC,
and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more
effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and
effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been
a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates
around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single
translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a
team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology.

3) It's extinct or critically endangered

Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium
full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a
society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in
which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the
next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized
language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into
German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck
and it'll be all over the airwaves.

Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it
comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across
languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even
where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped
in with a Romani language code in once instance.

4) Better to translate literature

Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at
translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no
translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless
at writing non-technical content.

5) Start with documentation/help

No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a
screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest
in the same lingo too.

As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web
access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a
soul-destroying task.

6) Professors say to prioritise proofing

Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first
need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus
someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is
not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a
priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified
their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just
annoy everybody.

In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree
for one) not are they based on research.

7) Firefox

That is actually the best alternative suggestion I've heard in this
debate. It might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and
Firefox are both must-haves really so it doesn't make that much of a
difference which one you start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS
versions now, would get you more bang for your buck faster though to begin
with

8) Machine Translation

Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and that's just
the start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is
a MT system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs
semi-gibberish at best. Irish is in a much better position regarding

[libreoffice-l10n] Bavarian and Nipmuck - report

[Michael Bauer]

Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry...


---


Sorry for the delay in responding, Im travelling.


I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion so 
far.


Let me try and go through them one by one...


1) Orthography


Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve 
languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the 
really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not 
immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post 
spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually 
deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling.


2) Team size


Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I also 
do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC, and 
several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more effective in 
some instances provided they put in sufficient time and effort. In fact having 
a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been a hindrance, not a help 
because there would have been ENDLESS debates around terminology and spelling. 
In a non-standardized language, a single translator can produce translations 
which are superior than those of a team, provided they are fluent and generally 
good with technology.


3) Its extinct or critically endangered
Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium full of 
people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a society which is 
not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in which a marginalized 
language can gain a foothold on the screens of the next generation, small as it 
may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized language has a big wow factor if 
done well. If you localize Diablo III into German, people just expect that, its 
not news. Translate it into Nipmuck and itll be all over the airwaves.


Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it comes 
to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across languages marked 
as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even where both were 
simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped in with a Romani 
language code in once instance.


4) Better to translate literature


Yes and no. Im a very good localizer but Im totally useless at translating 
literature or poetry or songs. Its called a specialism, no translator worth 
their money translate EVERYTHING. Id be equally useless at writing 
non-technical content.


5) Start with documentation/help

No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a screen 
that says Filte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest in the same 
lingo too.


As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they dont have web access. 
Even if some folk use it, its the worst starting point and a soul-destroying 
task.


6) Professors say to prioritise proofing


Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first need 
either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus someone who 
can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is not entirely 
straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a priority to begin 
with I would say. Small languages often have not codified their grammar fully 
and thus if you just write some rules, youll just annoy everybody.


In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree for 
one) not are they based on research.


7) Firefox


That is actually the best alternative suggestion Ive heard in this debate. It 
might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and Firefox are both 
must-haves really so it doesnt make that much of a difference which one you 
start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS versions now, would get you 
more bang for your buck faster though to begin with


8) Machine Translation


Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and thats just the 
start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is a MT 
system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs 
semi-gibberish at best. Irish is in a much better position regarding 
English/Irish data and yet Google Translate produces Irish which either makes 
you laugh yourself silly or makes you cry.
Long story short, my view is, welcome to both, just have a moment to consider 
the implications regarding time/effort/other challenges and if you still think 
its a good idea, good on you.


Michael


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report

[Michael Bauer]

He doesn't need to hit the Dev list, I can help him set up the initial bit this 
weekend once I'm back at my desk. 
Michael


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Facs: +44 141 9452701
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www.iGaidhlig.net

 Original message 
From: Mihovil Stanić  
Date:09/12/2015  15:40  (GMT+01:00) 
To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report 

dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org

09.12.2015 u 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust je napisao/la:
> I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the
> language would be a great help to those working in it and on it.
>
> I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can
> break down technical concepts pretty well.
>
> I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't
> break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it.
>
> Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice.
>
> If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply
> appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Colin
> On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer"  wrote:
>
>> Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry...
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling.
>>
>> I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion
>> so far.
>>
>> Let me try and go through them one by one...
>>
>> 1) Orthography
>>
>> Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve
>> languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the
>> really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not
>> immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post
>> spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually
>> deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling.
>>
>> 2) Team size
>>
>> Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I
>> also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC,
>> and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more
>> effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and
>> effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been
>> a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates
>> around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single
>> translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a
>> team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology.
>>
>> 3) It's extinct or critically endangered
>>
>> Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium
>> full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a
>> society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in
>> which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the
>> next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized
>> language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into
>> German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck
>> and it'll be all over the airwaves.
>>
>> Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it
>> comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across
>> languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even
>> where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped
>> in with a Romani language code in once instance.
>>
>> 4) Better to translate literature
>>
>> Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at
>> translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no
>> translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless
>> at writing non-technical content.
>>
>> 5) Start with documentation/help
>>
>> No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a
>> screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest
>> in the same lingo too.
>>
>> As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web
>> access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a
>> soul-destroying task.
>>
>> 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing
>>
>> Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first
>> need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus
>> someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is
>> not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a
>> priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified
>> their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just
>> annoy everybody.
>>
>> In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree
>> 

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report

[Sophie]

Hello,
Le 09/12/2015 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust a écrit :
> I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the
> language would be a great help to those working in it and on it.

Oh, of course, this is not what I had in mind. I think the best way to
express yourself is to have the tools in your language. What as said is
that LibreOffice is quite terrible to begin with, and there are
alternatives that maybe really interesting for users and less exhausting
for a translator working alone (I've done it for French for years :-)
> 
> I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can
> break down technical concepts pretty well.
> 
> I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't
> break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it.

Great, try to get more people around you, no need for ten persons, but 3
to 4 is already a big team.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice.

Don't hesitate to come back to us if you need anything concerning
localization even if it's not LO.
> 
> If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply
> appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort.

Mihovil gave you the link to their l10n list, if you have difficulty or
lack of answer (but I don't think so) don't hesitate to ping me directly.

Cheers
Sophie

-- 
Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi Robert, all,
Le 9 déc. 2015 18:33, "Joel Madero"  a écrit :
>
> Sorry didn't include Robert in the message - adding him. @Robert - please
read below.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Joel Madero  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> So the news is not good (at least in my opinion). Of course you can
continue doing the videos but it seems like because you can't speak in 200
languages we can't link it in the help files. Having English only would
interfere with locale teams (I'm still unclear how but I'm no expert there
and one of the experts has guaranteed me that such a link would have dire
affects on the community).

So let me reformulate it a bit differently. First Robert, thanks a lot for
your contributions.
What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language. Even
if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's very
difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in a foreign
language.
>>
>> So what you could do is just create a youtube channel and post the
videos...obviously visibility would be substantially less but, that's where
we are.

There are lot of other ways to advertise content created by the community.
For example post each uploaded video to a twitter dedicated account linked
to a FB and G+ pages,  post to the documentation blog, etc
>>
>> You could then create a wiki somewhere useful that links to your videos.
>>

That's another possibility and link it to the site
>> Wish I had better news - I'm still looking into the possibilities but
right now there seems to be a big blocker in getting such a cool addition
to the product.

Yes for the product, that does not mean it's the only way to give
visibility to Robert's contributions.
Cheers
Sophie
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Joel
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Sophie  wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry for the direct message, was suppose to go on the list
>>> Cheers
>>> Sophie
>>>
>>>
>>>  Message transféré 
>>> Sujet : Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help
>>> Date : Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:00:35 +0100
>>> De : Sophie 
>>> Pour : Joel Madero 
>>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>> Le 09/12/2015 17:35, Joel Madero a écrit :
>>> > Hi All,
>>> >
>>> > We have a volunteer (Robert Alexander) who has started making some
tutorial
>>> > videos that are supposed to coincide with help files.
>>> >
>>> > My hope is that we can figure out some way to link these files within
the
>>> > help itself. Any thoughts on that being a possibility? If we use
youtube
>>> > (at least at the beginning) I believe that translating is possible for
>>> > subtitles.
>>> >
>>> > A couple examples are below:
>>> > https://youtu.be/Q8V-5yeTHCM
>>> > https://youtu.be/DtEzyM28rlc
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts much appreciated. This would obviously be an ongoing task
but I
>>> > think that having tutorials for lots of features would be quite
helpful for
>>> > those who aren't capable or interested in reading help files (for
whatever
>>> > reason).
>>>
>>> But UI will still be in English, and handling translations in Youtube is
>>> not really ideal. Also, lot of people don't have external internet
>>> access or have YT blocked in their company so they won't be able to
>>> access them anyway.
>>>
>>> The best would be to create a dedicated playlist on TDF channel like we
>>> have done for French, see:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0pdzjvYW9RFl1ZRu8MkE3QxWQSt7Xktk
>>> and link it to the documentation on the wiki.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Sophie
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
>>> GSM: +33683901545
>>> IRC: sophi
>>> Co-founder - Release coordinator
>>> The Document Foundation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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deleted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel Madero
>> LibreOffice QA Volunteer
>> jmadero@gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Joel Madero
> LibreOffice QA Volunteer
> jmadero@gmail.com
>

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help

[Italo Vignoli]

On 09/12/2015 19:50, Sophie Gautier wrote:
> Yes for the product, that does not mean it's the only way to give
> visibility to Robert's contributions.

I have read the thread, but being in bed with flu since this morning I
could not replicate. I think that help videos are a great marketing
tool, which we can use in several ways. Once I am out of the flu, I will
get in touch with Robert (and Joel) to keep this ball rolling. Best, Italo

-- 
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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help

[Robinson Tryon]

Sophie wrote:
>> What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language.
>> Even if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's
>> very difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in
>> a foreign language.

In terms of the content that we provide on a per-language basis, I
agree that it's important to be able to provide consistency to those
users who desire it. For those who wish to see only content in
language XYZ, then we should strive to show them only content in XYZ.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Joel Madero  wrote:
> Just for full transparency here. Sophie and I had an extended talk on
> chat and I'm of the belief that to prevent this from getting into help
> files because other locales aren't doing the same is not the smartest
> way to move forward. I instead would prefer including it and then
> supporting locales to do the same - in the respective languages, with
> the right GUI, etcThese then would be linked in the locales help
> files and it would empower the community, expand on the product, and
> give visibility to a great tool (videos that literally show exactly how
> to use features).

For those who are multilingual or just adventurous,  I can see the
potential benefit if users could choose on a program-wide level to
toggle on extra non-localized content (let's call it "Extended
Documentation") for each page of the Help. If we were to have rather
stringent rules about what content (format, length, structure,
license, etc..) could be included in this fashion, then we'd have a
decent roadmap on what content we'd like to see localized next.

If we're clever about how we include Extended Documentation, we could
even recruit for translation/localization by adding a small message to
any non-localized content such as "Want to see this content in
$CURRENT_LOCALE? Click here to help out!"

> I'd prefer discussing a better solution, one where we can agree that the
> tool is awesome for users, that the more visibility the better, and one
> that empowers contributors to follow Robert's lead and developer
> tutorial videos in their respective languages.

I'd suggest that any video content included or linked from the
Documentation be provided in a similar fashion to our existing text
content. Off the top of my head, this would include:
- Licensing under CC-BY or CC-BY-SA 3+
- Use of free/open file formats
- "Source" video archived safely somewhere in TDF infra
- Inclusion of extra source materials (e.g. talking points used to
make the video, example docs displayed or demonstrated during the
video, etc..) with the archived source video to help others who may
wish to edit or reshoot the content
- Ability to Download or view video using only Free Software (Archive.org?)
- Strong encouragement for any cross-platform content to be
demonstrated using the Doc Team's preferred Free Software GUI shell
[1]

It would be great to have subtitles provided for each source video
from the get-go, however that's definitely a task that can be handled
independently, freeing up video creators to create more videos...

Cheers,
--R

[1] 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots
Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Software_screenshots

-- 
Robinson Tryon
QA Engineer - The Document Foundation
LibreOffice Community Outreach Herald
qu...@libreoffice.org
802-379-9482 | IRC: colonelqubit on Freenode

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help

[Lera]

Hi,

Creation of a video for a help is good idea. But, in my opinion, before as we 
will accept a decision about including video or links to a video in the Help, 
we must solve a few issue.

1. Who will make it?
We have huge amount not translated information (the help, FAQ, Guides) that 
destined for a help of users. [1][2][3] The Help has a lot of incomplete and 
outdated information, moreover, it requires reorganization and leading to 
standards. In order to bring it into order, the documentation team needs to 
have a lot more people, but they are not. Guides are better, but if you look 
at the gap from the current version of the LO, you'll see that Guides have the 
same problem. More free-form of documentation is FAQ in Wiki TDF, but it also 
requires the big contribution.

2. What will be made?
I like the idea of video, because it can help users with disabilities easier 
to learn of the LO. But, what do you propose to give to users? If this is not 
reading and show what is happening in the Help article, it will not be the 
help video and it isn't clear why links in the Help. If it is the help, it 
will be necessary to quickly make changes to the video, that the video will 
correspond to the Help. 
But I still doubt that the video should be included in an article in the Help.

3. What standards corresponds to the video?
As we already know, we are trying to bring documentation standards. [4] I am 
not going to touch on a lot of issues, I note a few that are on the surface. 
The sound should be without unnecessary noise and the voice of the announcer 
should be professional and belongs to a native speaker. If the first achieve 
easy with a help of technology, the second is difficult.  I read lectures for 2 
years for an audience, and tried to make video tutorials, and I understand 
that creature of the high-quality video tutorial is difficult. [5]
There are also more simple questions such as the cursor does not have to dance 
to the monitor, keystrokes be displayed and so on.

The same questions apply to the l10n team. If you look at the Help, Guides and 
FAQs, then you see that the translation lags far behind for many languages.

On the other hand we have FAQs in the wiki TDF. The FAQs are demand more than 
all the help and it does not have the strict requirements of the 
documentation. Dennis Roczek have installed the plugin to embed videos in the 
wiki TDF from YouTube. And you can start with that to make a video for the 
FAQs. In addition, it allows to carry out an experiment to make sure that the 
project is viable and will not be in a state of almost coma like almost all 
the documentation for LO.

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
[3] https://help.libreoffice.org/Main_Page
[4] 
https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2015/10/24/tdf-freelance-job-opening-201510-02-documentation-lead/
[5] https://youtu.be/Ae0pAV3WEQc?list=PLq31XmmWhfYFiUBzCSb8Xquf5FMiDxRfs

Best regards,
Lera

В письме от 10 декабря 2015 01:07:31 пользователь Robert Alexander написал:
> Hi everyone,
> thank you all for putting so much consideration into this discussion.
> 
> I am quite happy to independently create tutorial videos for LibreOffice if
> it turns out that this is the best route for the project as a whole. I was
> originally going to do that, but decided it would be good to get in touch
> in case you needed specific kinds of tutorials. So whatever happens, my
> plan is to make LibreOffice tutorials for the foreseeable future.
> 
> My current workflow means that I create transcripts(technically scripts) of
> my videos, which may be helpful to you as no one will have to go back and
> create them if they are needed.
> 
> Regards,
> Robert

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