Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Yury Tarasievich]

Well, I'm 'out of loop' ATM, but thank you for 
your effort, the organising team, *really*. I 
understand all this's a difficult undertaking.


The problem (on which guys are commenting) is -- 
certain kinds of changes should never 
generate/cause an obligatory workload.
In your place (I know, it's easy to advise 'from 
sidelines'), I'd try to look at ways to automate 
this.


-Yury

On 16/10/17 16:05, Sophie wrote:


Did you read my mail reporting ESC minutes we had last week? Wasn't it
about scripting and the time we have to find to do it?
I'm weekly reporting l10n issues to the ESC, and if you want to join,
you are welcome too.


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Yury Tarasievich]

On 16/10/17 16:00, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
...

Because they have a better model [...]

...

Yes.


It might be helpful to know that there are plans to build automated
Pootle pushes [2], which in turn should give us much more frequent

...

I'd say things ought to be organised so that 
changes like case changes would NEVER create an 
*obligatory* workload, but... oh, well, let's 
hope for this, at least.


-Yury

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Sophie]

Hi Yury, all,
Le 16/10/2017 à 14:22, Yury Tarasievich a écrit :
> You are talking wisely
> 
> On 16/10/17 13:47, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
>> 2017-10-13 7:45 GMT-05:00 Yury Tarasievich :
>>> Seconding this. The project just throws away the l10n people
>>> man-hours (but
>>> just you try to get them dev guys to fix something in the code!).
>>
>> What are you talking about? Developers are committing many patches per
>> day, even on holidays (see e.g. our GitHub Pulse or our dashboard).
>> This is a ridiculous accusation.
> 
> No. And you are turning things upside down.
> 
> Developers do much, providing they like what they do (are about to do).
> On the other hand, the important and visible functionality may sit there
> *virtually* broken for years (like, hey, ms word import/export involving
> formulas).
> 
> Returning to question at hand: people here are expressing their
> frustration because the actual workflow model allows for cascading
> workloads for everybody with very little rationale behind.
> 
> BTW, does developer side suffer from such kind of problem? Never, I
> believe. Everything is coordinated (and rightly so!)
> 
> Also, I've translated mozilla stack in my day, and I know it allows for
> *economising* translator's effort -- much of the content is replicated.
> And I've NEVER seen a 25-30% 'update' of the kind we are talking about
> here.

Did you read my mail reporting ESC minutes we had last week? Wasn't it
about scripting and the time we have to find to do it?
I'm weekly reporting l10n issues to the ESC, and if you want to join,
you are welcome too.

Cheers
Sophie



-- 
Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos]

2017-10-16 7:22 GMT-05:00 Yury Tarasievich :
> Also, I've translated mozilla stack in my day, and I know it allows for
> *economising* translator's effort -- much of the content is replicated. And
> I've NEVER seen a 25-30% 'update' of the kind we are talking about here.

Because they have a better model in which they update templates every
couple of days or so [1], contrary to our six-month delay where many
source code changes have time to accumulate and then get presented in
bulk to translators. This changes the perception, IMO, because in my
experience, even when there’s more material to translate at Mozilla,
it’s always more manageable…

That is something we need over here.

It might be helpful to know that there are plans to build automated
Pootle pushes [2], which in turn should give us much more frequent
updates and less overhead to worry about (assuming that implementing
it would be a huge time saver for our one overstretched sysadmin… I
might be thinking wishfully of course…)

[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!starred/mozilla.dev.l10n/_K2j7Sg0Orw
[2] https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1488

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Yury Tarasievich]

You are talking wisely

On 16/10/17 13:47, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:

2017-10-13 7:45 GMT-05:00 Yury Tarasievich :

Seconding this. The project just throws away the l10n people man-hours (but
just you try to get them dev guys to fix something in the code!).


What are you talking about? Developers are committing many patches per
day, even on holidays (see e.g. our GitHub Pulse or our dashboard).
This is a ridiculous accusation.


No. And you are turning things upside down.

Developers do much, providing they like what 
they do (are about to do). On the other hand, 
the important and visible functionality may sit 
there *virtually* broken for years (like, hey, 
ms word import/export involving formulas).


Returning to question at hand: people here are 
expressing their frustration because the actual 
workflow model allows for cascading workloads 
for everybody with very little rationale behind.


BTW, does developer side suffer from such kind 
of problem? Never, I believe. Everything is 
coordinated (and rightly so!)


Also, I've translated mozilla stack in my day, 
and I know it allows for *economising* 
translator's effort -- much of the content is 
replicated. And I've NEVER seen a 25-30% 
'update' of the kind we are talking about here.


-Yury

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-l10n] Sardinian localisations

[Sardware]

Hi,

We are a group of volunteer translators into some languages of Sardinia. 
We are exploring the possibility to localise LibreOffice into (mainly) 
Sardinian. Since there is no language team created, we might be 
interested in creating one.


Thank you very much in advance.

Best,
Adrià


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos]

A little clarification: I don’t intend to convey that your time isn’t
valued, guys and gals. And you, of course, don’t have to agree with
me. After all, this is just an idiot guy in his twenties…

2017-10-16 5:47 GMT-05:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos :
> 2017-10-13 7:45 GMT-05:00 Yury Tarasievich :
>> Seconding this. The project just throws away the l10n people man-hours (but
>> just you try to get them dev guys to fix something in the code!).
>
> What are you talking about? Developers are committing many patches per
> day, even on holidays (see e.g. our GitHub Pulse or our dashboard).
> This is a ridiculous accusation.
>
> Also, I translate for Mozilla and cosmetic changes are something that
> happens every day. Why is it so controversial here to try to fix the
> strings? It’s user experience and perception, which in my book matters
> a lot.
>
> Everyone please have this in mind: for better or worse, many of our
> developers aren’t native speakers and can’t contribute high-quality
> English strings the first time they land a patch, so we inevitably
> have to iterate. While I’m conscious that our tooling isn’t the best
> and does lead to wasted time over repetitive actions, I would—as a
> translator who contributes to Mozilla, Ubuntu, Fedora and many smaller
> projects—appreciate a little understanding that any software in
> continuous development IS BOUND TO CHANGE.
>
> Adolfo

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos]

2017-10-13 7:45 GMT-05:00 Yury Tarasievich :
> Seconding this. The project just throws away the l10n people man-hours (but
> just you try to get them dev guys to fix something in the code!).

What are you talking about? Developers are committing many patches per
day, even on holidays (see e.g. our GitHub Pulse or our dashboard).
This is a ridiculous accusation.

Also, I translate for Mozilla and cosmetic changes are something that
happens every day. Why is it so controversial here to try to fix the
strings? It’s user experience and perception, which in my book matters
a lot.

Everyone please have this in mind: for better or worse, many of our
developers aren’t native speakers and can’t contribute high-quality
English strings the first time they land a patch, so we inevitably
have to iterate. While I’m conscious that our tooling isn’t the best
and does lead to wasted time over repetitive actions, I would—as a
translator who contributes to Mozilla, Ubuntu, Fedora and many smaller
projects—appreciate a little understanding that any software in
continuous development IS BOUND TO CHANGE.

Adolfo

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted