Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Németh László]

Hi, Cor,

Cor Nouws  ezt írta (időpont: 2018. szept. 12., Sze,
22:43):

> Hi László,
>
> Németh László wrote on 03-05-18 18:57:
>
> > LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
> > Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
> > as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
> > German examples):
> >
> >  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 
> >
> > My questions to the native language speakers:
> >
> > 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
>
> LibreOffice Versie: 6.1.0.3
> Build ID: efb621ed25068d70781dc026f7e9c5187a4decd1
> CPU-threads: 4; Besturingssysteem: Linux 4.15; UI-render: standaard;
> VCL: gtk2;
> Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL.UTF-8); Calc: group threaded
>
> The numbering styles appear fine in the list 'Number'
> But the result in the document is broken/wrong.
> Such as Ordinal 1, Ordinal 2... and not 1e / eerste, 2e / tweede, etc.
>
> What is the status of this currently?
>


Missing data file installation was fixed on Windows, so version 6.1.1 will
work well on it, see
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118261.

But it's possible, this won't fix the problems of the TDF build on Linux.
That uses older GCC, unfortunately, without the requested C++11 regex
support, so it's possible, only LibreOffice versions packaged by the recent
Linux distributions will show "spell out" numbering correctly for a while.

Maybe it's worth to change the fall-back formats of ordinal and ordinal
indicator numbers to simple numbers, as in the case of the cardinal
numbers, to avoid to show "ordinal 1" or "ordinal-number 1" in TDF builds.

What is your opinion?

Best regards,
László



>
> Cheers,
> Cor
>
>
> >
> > You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
> > index.html#testimonials
> >
> > 2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
> > usage of your country/language variant?
> >
> > For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
> > English differ with the “and”
> >
> > 101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
> > 101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.
> >
> > 3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
> > to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?
> >
> > Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
> > in English outline numbering)
> > First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English,
> but
> > default numbering styles cover this, too)
> >
> > Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and
> date
> > formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
> > languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
> > Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
> > com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
> > service).
> >
> > Best regards,
> > László
> >
> > P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew
> contributors:
> >
> > Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
> > Calc extension:
> >
> > NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc
> >
>
>
> --
> Cor Nouws
> GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28  A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6
> - vrijwilliger https://nl.libreoffice.org
> - volunteer https://www.libreoffice.org
> - Member Board The Document Foundation
> - http://www.nouenoff.nl / https://www.mijnclouoffice.nl
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Németh László]

Hi Martin, Hi All,

2018-06-19 22:24 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi, Laszlo,
>
> 2018-05-25 20:26 GMT+02:00 Németh László :
>
>>
>>
>> For the incoming NatNum12 support, the other gender variants are
>> available under the prefix cardinal-feminine, ordinal-neuter etc.,
>> according to the "help"
>> of the end of the modules. With empty prefix input field, the Input
>> "help" shows the available functions, for example for Slovenian:
>>
>> helpena, dve, tri
>> cardinal-feminine: ena, dve, tri
>> cardinal-masculine: ena, dva, tri
>> cardinal-neuter: ena, dve, tri
>> ordinal-feminine: prva, druga, tretja
>> ordinal-masculine: prvi, drugi, tretji
>> ordinal-neuter: prvo, drugo, tretjo
>> ordinal-number: 1., 2., 3.
>>
>> (Unfortunately, this help misses the available cardinal-adverbial and
>> ordinal-adverbial, as I just noticed.)
>>
>> For Slovenian I am missing the "prvič, drugič, tretjič, ..." which is the
> equal of "1." or "first, second, third" as in "third point"; the gender
> ordinal ones you list are correct, but they count in corresponding gender,
> whereas the "prvič, drugič, tretjič" is the spelled-out form of "prislovni
> števnik", of the "adverbial ordinal", which would be needed in the lists,
> like "prvič: this and this; drugič: this and this, ..." ... Maybe this one
> can replace the "1st, 2nd, 3rd" we do not use in Slovenian as a special
> graphic form.
>

The plan is to use the new NatNum12 feature to support genders and other
functions in custom or predefined number formats:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/6.1#New_.E2.80.9Cspell_out.E2.80.9D_NatNum_modifier

Moreover, it will be possible to use dozens of suffix functions for
agglutinative languages with vowel harmony (ie. word-dependent suffix
variants), like Estonian, Finnish and Hungarian, see

https://github.com/Numbertext/libnumbertext/commit/cbcc8bbcb63964e4831ee611b22cbaca1f415817

and adding dozens of predefined date formats to the locale files to support
all date variants used in templates and mail merge in these languages (for
example, for Hungarian: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/55637/)


>
> Also, I downloaded the LO61b2 from a few days ago and it includes my
> translation of the numbering, but the numberin displayed in Slovenian
> document and language is not the one listed here, I only get: Ordinal 1.,
> Ordinal 2., Ordinal 3. and not "Prvič, Drugič, Tretjič" ... Is this feature
> not yet enabled for Slovenian?
>

Unfortunately, this is the fallback of the feature, when libnumbertext is
not available.

The issue with more information:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118261



>
>
>> Thanks for your help,
>>
>
> Thank you for your wonderful work, I hope we get this right for as many
> languages as possible for the 6.1.0 release ;)
>

Thanks, I hope that. :)  Thanks for your bug report!

Best regards,
Laszlo



>
> Best regards,
> Martin
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi, Laszlo,

2018-05-25 20:26 GMT+02:00 Németh László :

>
>
> For the incoming NatNum12 support, the other gender variants are available
> under the prefix cardinal-feminine, ordinal-neuter etc., according to the
> "help"
> of the end of the modules. With empty prefix input field, the Input "help"
> shows the available functions, for example for Slovenian:
>
> helpena, dve, tri
> cardinal-feminine: ena, dve, tri
> cardinal-masculine: ena, dva, tri
> cardinal-neuter: ena, dve, tri
> ordinal-feminine: prva, druga, tretja
> ordinal-masculine: prvi, drugi, tretji
> ordinal-neuter: prvo, drugo, tretjo
> ordinal-number: 1., 2., 3.
>
> (Unfortunately, this help misses the available cardinal-adverbial and
> ordinal-adverbial, as I just noticed.)
>
> For Slovenian I am missing the "prvič, drugič, tretjič, ..." which is the
equal of "1." or "first, second, third" as in "third point"; the gender
ordinal ones you list are correct, but they count in corresponding gender,
whereas the "prvič, drugič, tretjič" is the spelled-out form of "prislovni
števnik", of the "adverbial ordinal", which would be needed in the lists,
like "prvič: this and this; drugič: this and this, ..." ... Maybe this one
can replace the "1st, 2nd, 3rd" we do not use in Slovenian as a special
graphic form.

Also, I downloaded the LO61b2 from a few days ago and it includes my
translation of the numbering, but the numberin displayed in Slovenian
document and language is not the one listed here, I only get: Ordinal 1.,
Ordinal 2., Ordinal 3. and not "Prvič, Drugič, Tretjič" ... Is this feature
not yet enabled for Slovenian?


> Thanks for your help,
>

Thank you for your wonderful work, I hope we get this right for as many
languages as possible for the 6.1.0 release ;)

Best regards,
Martin

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Anton Meixome]

2018-05-04 19:02 GMT+02:00 Sophie :
> Hi László,
> Le 03/05/2018 à 18:57, Németh László a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
>> Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
>> as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
>> German examples):
>>
>>  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 
>>
>> My questions to the native language speakers:
>>
>> 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

For Galician it's OK too use cardinal number

Un, dous, tres
1, 2, 3

It's usual too the ordinal

Primeiro/a, Segundo/a, Terceiro/a
1º, 2º, 3º
1ª, 2ª, 3ª


>>
>> You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
>> index.html#testimonials
>
> French has different numbering between fr-CH, fr-FR, fr-BE, fr-CA
> example: 'quatre-vingt-onze' in fr-FR is 'nonante et un' in fr-CH,
> fr-BE, fr-CA
>>
>> 2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
>> usage of your country/language variant?
>>
>> For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
>> English differ with the “and”
>>
>> 101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
>> 101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.
>
> There is also a difference between fr-FR and the others:
> for example 21 should be written
> vingt et un in fr-FR,  vingt-et-un (with hyphens) in other French.
>
>>
>> 3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
>> to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

For Galician, yes

Chapter One > Capítulo un
Section One > Sección un

Isn't incorrect "Sección unha" but isn't normal


>>
>> Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
>> in English outline numbering)
>
> Number is never alone and then there is a gender issue, because book and
> page have not the same gender for example.
>
> Ordinal number are used before noun (like Première partie for Part One,
> Premier chapitre for Chapter One). Cardinal number without noun are
> quiet never used. Cardinal number with noun are used too (mostly in books).
>
>> First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
>> default numbering styles cover this, too)

In Galician, isn't normal only the ordinal but cardinal number and noun.


First Book > Libro primeiro
First Page > Páxina primeira, Primeira páxina, (páx. 1ª), Páxina un (1)
First Section > Sección primeira (Sección 1ª ), Primeira sección (1ª
Sección) or Sección 1

>>
>> Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
>> formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
>> languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
>> Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
>> com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
>> service).


Currency: only cardinal, only one gender
Date: only cardinal, only one gender


>
> Cheers
> Sophie
>
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-- 
Antón Méixome - Galician Native Lang Coordination
Galician community LibO & AOO

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Németh László]

Hi,

New changes based on your great feedbacks:

– complete Bulgarian module by Mihail Balabanov;
– new Icelandic module (without currency support yet);
– new Slovenian ordinal number support;
– better (I hope) Czech ordinal numbers;
– fixing default currency for Lithuanian and Latvian, better ordinal
numbers in Latvian;
– etc.

I am going to update libnumbertext integration with these fixes for
LibreOffice 6.1.

We've got help from Mike Kaganski, who has not only fixed the Russian
language data, but added libnumbertext features to NatNumber native number
formatter of LibreOffice.
This will help to use the different gender functions and other number
formatting features of Numbertext language descriptions in different area
of Writer and Calc.
A Hungarian example in a Writer screencast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqnUOPMfbc – formatting  a variable in
different formats at the same time, as
frequently used in contracts and legal documents.

The new NatNumber12 number formatter is still under development, but based
on this, it will be possible to add new date and other formats to the XML
locale files,
for example, the common English date format "31st December", or the common
Hungarian date formats with affixation: 2018. január 25-e/26-a (plain
date),  24-én/26-án (on 24th/26th).

Using https://numbertext.github.io/Soros.html, you can check/test all
details of the language data more easily.
For the already integrated chapter numbering (with working DOCX
import/export), you can test the default
ordinal numbers and ordinal indicators, too, adding "ordinal" and
"ordinal-number" in the input box "prefix".

For the incoming NatNum12 support, the other gender variants are available
under the prefix cardinal-feminine, ordinal-neuter etc., according to the
"help"
of the end of the modules. With empty prefix input field, the Input "help"
shows the available functions, for example for Slovenian:

helpena, dve, tri
cardinal-feminine: ena, dve, tri
cardinal-masculine: ena, dva, tri
cardinal-neuter: ena, dve, tri
ordinal-feminine: prva, druga, tretja
ordinal-masculine: prvi, drugi, tretji
ordinal-neuter: prvo, drugo, tretjo
ordinal-number: 1., 2., 3.

(Unfortunately, this help misses the available cardinal-adverbial and
ordinal-adverbial, as I just noticed.)

Thanks for your help,

Best regards,
László



2018-05-19 19:35 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi,
>
> I am reporting back for Slovenian (sl). I am adding other two members of
> the Slovenian localization team (Urška and Robert) to assist in my answer
> and your further questions, if needed.
> Looking at https://numbertext.github.io/index.html#testimonials
> - cardinal number for Slovenian seems ok (used in 1, 2, ...);
> - ordinal numbering for Slovenian is not existent in your system (used
> with modification in 1., 2., ...).
>
> First, for writing only ordinal numbers in Slovenian:
> The beginning is the same as in cardinal number, except for the last word,
> which ends with "i" (this is for ordinal number for masculine, for female
> it should be "a" and for neutrum it should be "o"); but there are different
> endings for 1-4 with modulo 100 (0, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800,
> 900) where endings go like this:
> 1.- prvi
> 2.- drugi
> 3.- tretji
> 4.- četrti
> 5.-100.: cardinal + "i"; example: 5.: peti ("pet"=5 + "i"); 98:
> osemindevetdeseti (osemindevetdeset=98 + "i")
> 101. - stoprvi = 100 "sto" + "prvi"
> 102. - stodrugi =  + "drugi"
> 103. - stotretji
> 104. - sto četrti
> 105. - stopeti = "sto pet" - space + "i"
> So with 10203 we have "deset tisoč dvesto tretji".
>
> For lists with ordinal numbers, however, the ordinal nuber gets appended
> with "č", as form "prvič", "drugič", etc. is used with ordinal numbers, so
> we get:
> 1. = prvič = ordinal number  ("prvi") + "č"
> 2. = drugič
> 3. = tretjič
> ---
> 99. = devetindevetdesetič
> 100. = stotič
> 101. = stoprvič
> 104. = stočetrtič
> 105. = stopetič
> ...
> 423. = štiristotriindvajsetič
>
> Also, if I am correct, in ordinal numbers and ordinal numberings for lists
> the word is written as one, without spaces (whereas the cardinal number has
> spaces where you have them already). Will check about that and report back.
> Maybe I am wrong, Urška can confirm (at lease "101." as an idiom in the
> dictionary exists as "stoprvič").
>
> We have a problem in Slovenian with the "1st, 2nd, 3rd, ..." etc. list
> numbering, we do not have appropriate form for that, must check what MSO
> uses there, maybe a female or neutrum version of ordinal numbering or
> something else is used instead, I don't know because I do not use MSO.
> Maybe Robert and Urška can be quicker than me in the response.
>
> Thanks so far,
> m.
>
> 2018-05-03 18:57 GMT+02:00 Németh László :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
>> Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
>> as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French 

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Valter Mura]

Il 03/05/2018 18:57, Németh László ha scritto:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 


Hi Laszlo, All




My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials


For Italian, from 1 to 10 there is a '$1' before the name of the number 
which is not correct.
Also, we need to check all variants, I noticed some missed letter 
(double l) in some ordinals


Are the ordinals generated automatically?



2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?


For Italian, the default format is ok.



For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)


For Italian, if we consider a simple sorting, we can use only one gender 
(male), but if we refer to all types, we need the two ones, male and female:


Book = Libro, male
Part = Parte, female
Chapter = Capitolo, male
Section = Sezione, female
Page = Pagina, female
Paragraph = Paragrafo, male

(Note: This is the standard and present translation. There was a 
discussion in our list concerning a different translation for the types 
above, not important here.)




Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).



Ciao
--
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Modestas Rimkus]

Hi,

I'll add to (or repeat something) what Rimas wrote about Lithuanian.

2018-05-03, kt, 19:58 Németh László  rašė:

> 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
>

Seems to be correct for Lithuanian, however, gender issue arises for
ordinal numbers.
Moreover, dot is never used as an ordinal indicator in Lithuanian.​
​
​ Instead, either "-as" (masculine) or "-a" (feminine) is appended to a
number as an ordinal indicator (again, dependent on the gender).​
If a year should be spelled out in Lithuanian, it would require yet another
form - pronominal plural numeral.


2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
> usage of your country/language variant?
>
> For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
> English differ with the “and”
>
> 101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
> 101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.
>

​If I understand the question correctly, then no. There's only one version
of Lithuanian language that suits everyone. And we don't add "and" in the
middle of spelled out numerals.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
> to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?
>
> Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
> in English outline numbering)
> First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
> default numbering styles cover this, too)
>

​Numerals have to be adapted to the gender of the noun in Lithuanian.
Luckily, there's only two genders and only the last word of the numeral has
to be changed according to the gender.​
Out of the few words that were listed, book, part, section, paragraph are
feminine: pirma knyga, pirma dalis, pirma sekcija, pirma pastraipa. Chapter
and page are masculine: pirmas skyrius, pirmas puslapis.

Numerals usualy go together with noun, I can't think of a common case where
there could be number alone.
Also, ordinal number always comes before noun, so it's always "first
chapter", and never "chapter first" or "chapter one".

Regards,
Modestas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Mihail Balabanov]

Hi,

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Németh László  wrote:

> LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
> Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
>

Great!


> 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
>

There is no Bulgarian; I used the Soros IDE to create a module and it is
now almost complete (only the currency part is remaining) but I could not
find how to add it to the list when it is ready. What is the procedure?


> 2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
> usage of your country/language variant?
>

The only similar issue for Bulgarian that comes to my mind is that some
numbers have alternative names, for example 15 may be "петнадесет" (more
formal) or "петнайсет" (less formal but also OK in writing). These are not
dependent on language variants though, just style preference. My module
currently uses the formal ones.


> 3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
> to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?
>
> Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
> in English outline numbering)
> First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English,
> but
> default numbering styles cover this, too)
>

In Bulgarian, spelled out numerals in chapter numbering are almost always
ordinal ("First chapter" rather than "Chapter one"). Both ordinal and
cardinal numerals have gender that must agree with the gender of the noun,
so all genders must be supported:

първа книга/част/глава/страница (first book/part/chapter/page, feminine)
първи раздел/абзац (first section/paragraph, masculine)
един долар (one dollar, masculine)
една лира (one pound, feminine)
едно евро (one euro, neuter)

Since apparently many languages are like this, maybe we need an option for
the user to select a particular Soros macro (probably through a
user-friendly name rather than things like "ordinal-feminine") for each
numbering level. This can also be used to switch between alternative number
names like the ones described above.

Cheers,
Mihail

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Sophie]

Hi László,
Le 03/05/2018 à 18:57, Németh László a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
> Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
> as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
> German examples):
> 
>  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 
> 
> My questions to the native language speakers:
> 
> 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
> 
> You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
> index.html#testimonials

French has different numbering between fr-CH, fr-FR, fr-BE, fr-CA
example: 'quatre-vingt-onze' in fr-FR is 'nonante et un' in fr-CH,
fr-BE, fr-CA
> 
> 2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
> usage of your country/language variant?
> 
> For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
> English differ with the “and”
> 
> 101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
> 101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

There is also a difference between fr-FR and the others:
for example 21 should be written
vingt et un in fr-FR,  vingt-et-un (with hyphens) in other French.

> 
> 3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
> to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?
> 
> Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
> in English outline numbering)

Number is never alone and then there is a gender issue, because book and
page have not the same gender for example.

Ordinal number are used before noun (like Première partie for Part One,
Premier chapitre for Chapter One). Cardinal number without noun are
quiet never used. Cardinal number with noun are used too (mostly in books).

> First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
> default numbering styles cover this, too)
> 
> Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
> formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
> languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
> Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
> com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
> service).

Cheers
Sophie

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Krunose]

On 03.05.2018 20:39, Krunose wrote:

On 03.05.2018 18:57, Németh László wrote:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. 
languages

to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage


Setting this ordering is tricky.

Book One -> Knjiga prva / Prva knjiga (femininum)
Part One -> Prvo poglavlje (neutrum) [Prvi dio (masculinum)]
Section One -> Prvi dio (masculinum)
Page One -> Prva stranica (less common Stranica prva) (femininum)
Paragraph One -> Prvi odlomak (less common Odlomak prvi) (masculinum)

Practically only ordinal numbers are used.

But if Book, part, section, page or paragraph is omited then is most 
common to use ordinal numbers in neutrum.


Most common is to use ordinal number with noun after it. Guess having 
cardinal numbers in Headings without noun that follows is not wrong but 
not really used.



Is it possible to extend Soros so regular expression matches nouns like 
Book/Part/Section/Page/Paragraph so output is preprepared regarding to that?


Kruno




in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in 
English, but

default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency 
and date

formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the 
NUMBERTEXT

Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).
Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew 
contributors:


Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the 
Numbertext

Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc


I'm thinking about this for last two days and have some concerns. 
Chapters are spelled out like First, Second and so on, but Croatian 
has three genders and masculinum should be used in Calc when turning 
spelling out numbers, but in Writer - for chapter numbers - neutrum 
makes more sense but I doubt default format support both.


Current version of Croatian Numbertext is at

    https://github.com/krunose/hr-numbertext

and any advice would be much appreciated. Didn't include this to 
Numbertext.org as decimal number should be done first, but I guess 
this whole spell out thing might speed things up...


Thanks,
Kruno



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Gerhard Weydt]

Hi László,

I forgot to remark that there are differences regarding point 2, in 
french/belgian/swiss usage for 70, 80, 90 and associated numbers, which 
are already covered in numbertext.github.io.


Am 04.05.2018 um 00:40 schrieb Gerhard Weydt:

Hi László,

not an easy task you have set out to accomplish! I think you will have 
to hope that more than one person per language will answer, because it 
will be easy to overlook some specialty, as a native speaker uses 
these terms without much thinking about.


Here are my answers for German, I hope they are complete as regards 
German for Germany, but I don't swear to it:


Am 03.05.2018 um 18:57 schrieb Németh László:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
For German one can only see cardinal numbers which are OK, including 
the reverse order for the last two digits (e.g. 43 = forty-three = 
dreiundvierzig).

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials
Ordinal numbers seem also to be OK (gender problem see below); ordinal 
indicator is simply a point/dot, as supplied in that site, so that's 
easy.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.
As regards this example, you may indeed say "einhundertundeins" or 
"einhunderteins" or even "hunderteins" and also "hundertundeins", 
which all will be regarded as correct, but the version 
"einhunderteins", which is also proposed by numbertext.github.io, is 
in my opinion the most common and sufficient for all German-speaking 
communities.
But there is one difference between german (and austrian and probably 
luxembourgian) and swiss usage (and I don't know which is followed by 
Liechtenstein): The Swiss don't use ß, but ss, so thirty = dreißig 
(Germany...), but dreissig (Switzerland). This is, for numbers, the 
only difference I know of; numbertext.github.io reflects this correctly.
3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. 
languages

to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal 
usage

in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in 
English, but

default numbering styles cover this, too)
No, it's not sufficient, if you intend to support the second style. 
For the first style cardinal numbers are used, so there's no problem. 
But for the ordinal numbers needed for the second style you have to 
respect the three genders:

In the sequence of your example:
Erstes Buch/Erster Teil/Erstes Kapitel/Erster Abschnitt/Erste 
Seite/Erster Absatz

or with gender:
neutral Buch/male Teil/neutral Kapitel/male Abschnitt/female 
Seite/male Absatz
Luckily, these suffixes ("s" for neutral, "r" for male, none for 
female, in addition to the form supplied by numbertext.github.io) are 
regular; and for the form "the first..." (don't know the grammatical 
term in English), if you should also cover it, there is only the 
female form which you already find in numbertext.github.io.
This, though, rises the question how to specify which gender should be 
used in a certain context.
Personally I would not object if you do not implement the second 
style, as it sounds antiquated, although it was certainly used. Even 
the first style (using text for a number) I would regard as 
uncommon/rare.
Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency 
and date

formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the 
NUMBERTEXT

Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Cardinal Number as seen above is OK for currency.
For date there are/may be differences, I know of one: Austrians use 
"Jänner" instead of "Januar" for january normally, also on TV, for 
example, but I cannot say if using "Januar" as in Germany would be OK 
for Austria as well.

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew 
contributors:


Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the 
Numbertext

Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc


Gerhard



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Gerhard Weydt]

Hi László,

not an easy task you have set out to accomplish! I think you will have 
to hope that more than one person per language will answer, because it 
will be easy to overlook some specialty, as a native speaker uses these 
terms without much thinking about.


Here are my answers for German, I hope they are complete as regards 
German for Germany, but I don't swear to it:


Am 03.05.2018 um 18:57 schrieb Németh László:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
For German one can only see cardinal numbers which are OK, including the 
reverse order for the last two digits (e.g. 43 = forty-three = 
dreiundvierzig).

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials
Ordinal numbers seem also to be OK (gender problem see below); ordinal 
indicator is simply a point/dot, as supplied in that site, so that's easy.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.
As regards this example, you may indeed say "einhundertundeins" or 
"einhunderteins" or even "hunderteins" and also "hundertundeins", which 
all will be regarded as correct, but the version "einhunderteins", which 
is also proposed by numbertext.github.io, is in my opinion the most 
common and sufficient for all German-speaking communities.
But there is one difference between german (and austrian and probably 
luxembourgian) and swiss usage (and I don't know which is followed by 
Liechtenstein): The Swiss don't use ß, but ss, so thirty = dreißig 
(Germany...), but dreissig (Switzerland). This is, for numbers, the only 
difference I know of; numbertext.github.io reflects this correctly.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)
No, it's not sufficient, if you intend to support the second style. For 
the first style cardinal numbers are used, so there's no problem. But 
for the ordinal numbers needed for the second style you have to respect 
the three genders:

In the sequence of your example:
Erstes Buch/Erster Teil/Erstes Kapitel/Erster Abschnitt/Erste 
Seite/Erster Absatz

or with gender:
neutral Buch/male Teil/neutral Kapitel/male Abschnitt/female Seite/male 
Absatz
Luckily, these suffixes ("s" for neutral, "r" for male, none for female, 
in addition to the form supplied by numbertext.github.io) are regular; 
and for the form "the first..." (don't know the grammatical term in 
English), if you should also cover it, there is only the female form 
which you already find in numbertext.github.io.
This, though, rises the question how to specify which gender should be 
used in a certain context.
Personally I would not object if you do not implement the second style, 
as it sounds antiquated, although it was certainly used. Even the first 
style (using text for a number) I would regard as uncommon/rare.

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Cardinal Number as seen above is OK for currency.
For date there are/may be differences, I know of one: Austrians use 
"Jänner" instead of "Januar" for january normally, also on TV, for 
example, but I cannot say if using "Januar" as in Germany would be OK 
for Austria as well.

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc


Gerhard

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Olivier Hallot]

Hi László

Em 03/05/2018 13:57, Németh László escreveu:
> Hi,
> 
> LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
> Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
> as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
> German examples):
> 
>  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 
> 
> My questions to the native language speakers:
> 
> 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?
> 
> You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
> index.html#testimonials
> 

For pt and pt-BR

Cardinal numbers: OK

Ordinal numbers: Depends on gender of the noun.
e.g. 1234 can be
"milésima duocentésima trigésima quarta" if the noun gender is feminine
"milésimo duocentésimo trigésimo quarto" if the noun gender is masculine

Ordinal indicator: Same as above
e.g.
"Parágrafo 1.º"
"Cláusula 2.ª"
(pt-BR keyboard has native support for º and ª)

Default currency: for both pt (EUR) and pt-BR (BRL) the currency gender
is masculine.

> 2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
> usage of your country/language variant?
> 
> For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
> English differ with the “and”
> 
> 101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
> 101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.
> 

not for pt or pt-BR

> 3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
> to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?
> 
> Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
> in English outline numbering)
> First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
> default numbering styles cover this, too)
> 

For pt & pt-BR, cardinal numbers have no gender.
"Página um"
"Página dois"
"Capítulo cinco"

> Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
> formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
> languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
> Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
> com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
> service).
> 
> Best regards,
> László
> 
> P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:
> 
> Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
> Calc extension:
> 
> NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc
> 

-- 
Olivier Hallot
LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator
Comunidade LibreOffice
Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00
http://tdf.io/joinus

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Stanislav Horáček]

Hi,

great initiative, thanks!


Dne 3.5.2018 v 18:57 Németh László napsal(a):

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials


Not correct for Czech: all words should be modified for ordinal numbers 
while it is the case for the last one only; there are also incorrect 
details in another categories.




2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)


I assume that support for all genders is needed, in Czech both masculine 
and feminine are commonly used for the outline numbering.


Best regards,
Stanislav




Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Sveinn í Felli]

Þann fim  3.maí 2018 16:57, skrifaði Németh László:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials


My language (Icelandic) is not there, but I don't see any trouble except 
for 1st, 2nd... which we treat as numbers (1., 2., ...) and then there's 
a big gender issue*.



2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.


In Icelandic there has to be an 'and': 'eitt hundrað og einn'



3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)


Numbers/adjectives take on gender in Icelandic; Book/Page/Paragraph 
would be feminine, Chapter/Part/Section are masculine, and in formal 
speech without referencing which kind of item we would use neutral form.

Also this is a stylistic minefield...

Best regards,
Sveinn í Felli


Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc




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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Krunose]

On 03.05.2018 18:57, Németh László wrote:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc


I'm thinking about this for last two days and have some concerns. 
Chapters are spelled out like First, Second and so on, but Croatian has 
three genders and masculinum should be used in Calc when turning 
spelling out numbers, but in Writer - for chapter numbers - neutrum 
makes more sense but I doubt default format support both.


Current version of Croatian Numbertext is at

    https://github.com/krunose/hr-numbertext

and any advice would be much appreciated. Didn't include this to 
Numbertext.org as decimal number should be done first, but I guess this 
whole spell out thing might speed things up...


Thanks,
Kruno

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Rimas Kudelis]

hi,


2018.05.03 19:57, Németh László rašė:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials


Lithuanian seems quite OK.


2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.


Not sure which format is the default.


3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).


Not sure if these questions only apply to Spanish or not. I would 
certainly think it's best to support all possible genders.


Also, I noticed that two ways of spelling out are currently not 
supported for Lithuanian (Year and Formal number, whatever that is).


Also, the default currency is incorrect for Lituania. We switched to 
Euro a few years ago, but the library default is still LTL. This should 
definitely be changed, unless it's not that library, but some other...


Cheers,
Rimas

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[libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Németh László]

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

 https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc

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