Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
El domingu, 26-avientu-2010 a les 19:15 +0300, Sophie Gautier escribió: If other team wants to give a try, please follow the same process as for the extensions project, post on the mailing list and Rimas (big thanks to him :) will take care of your request. Hi! I guess it's time for asturian team to take care of this one :) Please, Rimas, can you activate ast language for us? Best regards, -- Saludinos Xuacu Saturio -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Xuacu, 2011.01.10 01:08, Xuacu rašė: I guess it's time for asturian team to take care of this one :) Please, Rimas, can you activate ast language for us? Just did. Bear in mind though that online translation is basically not working for that project now. You probably should translate this XLIFF file offline using Virtaal and only upload it to Pootle afterwards (though I'm not quite sure whether or not it would be kept intact after uploading). Rimas -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi, Von: Rimas Kudelis Pootle has the problem, I'd bet virtaal (based on the same toolkit) has the same problem. Nope. In fact, I was explicitly suggested by Pootle/Virtaal's authors that we use Virtaal for XLIFF because of much better support for this file format. Yes, you are right. Virtaal correctly handles inlines :) (just tried) regards, André -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
2011/1/7 Javier Sola li...@khmeros.info André, Yes, it was a problem of the toolkit, and they just fixed it. We will apply the patch in WordForge, as we are still using the same code. This does not really solve the problem, which is to get a working filter for ODF-XLIFF, but so far it can be done with Omega-T The main issue with the toolkit is that it does not keep the structure of XLIFF files internally, but it creates its own internal representation. If something is not specifically represented internally, then it is not stored, and therefore not saved back in the file. This is why WordForge ia moving away from the toolkit, because not being native to XLIFF it is very hard to work on implementation of XLIFF features. Lokalize does not have this problem because it keeps all the data of an XLIFF file, independently of understanding it or not. So, OmegaT and Lokalize can handle this conversion and WordForge might handle it in future if necessary code updates are added (after using patches for the toolkit)? Seems ok. How could then the workflow for localizing ODT files look like? Could ODF-XLIFF transformation be offered by the translation system (Pootle?) so that the user does not bother with that? Localizers would localize XLIFF files (how does that relate to localization of pictures and other objects in the ODF?). Lp, m. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
So, OmegaT Sorry, I confused the names, not Omega-T, but Okapi, for the ODF to/from XLIFF filters. Lokalize, WordForge 0.8RC1 and Virtaal should be able to handle the XLIFF files. and Lokalize can handle this conversion and WordForge might handle it in future if necessary code updates are added (after using patches for the toolkit)? Seems ok. How could then the workflow for localizing ODT files look like? Could ODF-XLIFF transformation be offered by the translation system (Pootle?) so that the user does not bother with that? Localizers would localize XLIFF files (how does that relate to localization of pictures and other objects in the ODF?). Once good filters are available, they will probably be integrated in the different tools that can handle XLIFF. We will definitely do it for WordForge. Integrating Okapi is a little complex at the moment because the filters are in Java, and this means integrating new dependencies or converting the code to Python. The question about pictures is interesting. Editing text or culture in images is not something that editors will be doing in the short run (an image editor like Gimp is necessary), but at some point it will be important to be able to display pictures attached, to clarify the text. Cheers, Javier Lp, m. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi André, 2011.01.06 17:06, Andre Schnabel rašė: Are you sure? There were plenty of placeholders in the file exported by Sophie. To me, it looks like most of the problem is actually in Pootle itself, because it simply ignores XML tags in the translatable string. The problem might look simple - but afaik, all (but one) free translation editors share the same problem. Pootle has the problem, I'd bet virtaal (based on the same toolkit) has the same problem. Nope. In fact, I was explicitly suggested by Pootle/Virtaal's authors that we use Virtaal for XLIFF because of much better support for this file format. Wordforge Editor removes the inline tags (just tested). OLTE removes them (spent some days on trying to find a solution, but it woult mean a major redesign of the internal translation handling in the editor). Afaik, only Lokalize handles inlines correctly. I did not check other tools like OmegaT yet. So after all, for document translation XLIFF is the better (because more rich) file format, but it lacks the tools :( Rimas -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Sophie, The ODF2XLIFF filters in both translate toolkit and WordForge are broken. They ignore some strings from the source (they do not go into the XLIFF files) in which there is mark-up. They can be used only for plain text without any markup, and even them segmentation is not very good. There are also other problems with them. I-tools does not have enough working tools either. Our testing shows that the Okapi framework does a good job for the round trip, I don't know about other tools. This is a very important issue, but not easy to solve. We will be putting some time to fix it, but it will not happen immediately. Cheers, Javier Sophie Gautier wrote: Hi all, As promised, I'm going on with the tests concerning the ability to use Pootle in the translation workflow for documentation. As you may know, Pootle is able to handle very large projects now thanks to the great work the team has provided. There is all the tools needed for the translation process, but also you can assign task and objectives to a member or a team. I've worked on the first chapter of the OOoAuthors guide for beginners. I used WordForge filters [1] to convert the file from .odt (ODF file format) to .xlf (XLIFF file format). Both are standards, so it should be easier to have a good conversion. Several tools manage off line translation for Xliff file format, like WordForge or OmegaT, there may be others I don't know too. Rimas has kindly uploaded the file on Pootle [2], creating a new project for several languages for the beginning. Currently, en_GB fr hu ko nl oc pt_BR ru zh_CN . Those are the 7 languages for which libo33 project is fully localized plus hu and nl. The issue we meet is that the strings appears as needing review instead of being empty. If other team wants to give a try, please follow the same process as for the extensions project, post on the mailing list and Rimas (big thanks to him :) will take care of your request. Please, follow up on the l10n list for the moment, we will settle a more precise workflow once we have solved the issued that may raised and that we are sure most (I know we miss an offline tool currently for Mac translators) of the needs to work quietly and efficiently on the documentation translation. Thanks for your help in improving the process :) [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/wordforge2/ [2] http://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/doc_test/ Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Sophie, all, Le Mon, 27 Dec 2010 11:51:06 +0300, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi Javier, On 27/12/2010 11:37, Javier Sola wrote: Hi Sophie, The ODF2XLIFF filters in both translate toolkit and WordForge are broken. They ignore some strings from the source (they do not go into the XLIFF files) in which there is mark-up. They can be used only for plain text without any markup, and even them segmentation is not very good. There are also other problems with them. I-tools does not have enough working tools either. Ok, I didn't test enough to be aware of the errors, the round trip I made seems to be ok, but thanks a lot for your feedback. Our testing shows that the Okapi framework does a good job for the round trip, I don't know about other tools. Ok, good to know, thanks, I'll test it now for the conversion. This is a very important issue, but not easy to solve. We will be putting some time to fix it, but it will not happen immediately. I understand. Thanks a lot for the work you have already done for us :-) Sorry to jump in late, but would this platform help? http://www.hforge.org/odf-i18n-tests Best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Charles, On 27/12/2010 16:47, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hi Sophie, all, Le Mon, 27 Dec 2010 11:51:06 +0300, Sophie Gautiergautier.sop...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi Javier, On 27/12/2010 11:37, Javier Sola wrote: Hi Sophie, The ODF2XLIFF filters in both translate toolkit and WordForge are broken. They ignore some strings from the source (they do not go into the XLIFF files) in which there is mark-up. They can be used only for plain text without any markup, and even them segmentation is not very good. There are also other problems with them. I-tools does not have enough working tools either. Ok, I didn't test enough to be aware of the errors, the round trip I made seems to be ok, but thanks a lot for your feedback. Our testing shows that the Okapi framework does a good job for the round trip, I don't know about other tools. Ok, good to know, thanks, I'll test it now for the conversion. This is a very important issue, but not easy to solve. We will be putting some time to fix it, but it will not happen immediately. I understand. Thanks a lot for the work you have already done for us :-) Sorry to jump in late, but would this platform help? http://www.hforge.org/odf-i18n-tests Thank you for the link Charles, I was not aware of this site. From what Javier said, the filter of the translate toolkit is also buggy and I think this is the one they use. But I'll check later. In the mean time I'll test this evening the Okapi converter. Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Please also enable zh_TW = Chinese (Taiwan). Thanks! On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all, As promised, I'm going on with the tests concerning the ability to use Pootle in the translation workflow for documentation. As you may know, Pootle is able to handle very large projects now thanks to the great work the team has provided. There is all the tools needed for the translation process, but also you can assign task and objectives to a member or a team. I've worked on the first chapter of the OOoAuthors guide for beginners. I used WordForge filters [1] to convert the file from .odt (ODF file format) to .xlf (XLIFF file format). Both are standards, so it should be easier to have a good conversion. Several tools manage off line translation for Xliff file format, like WordForge or OmegaT, there may be others I don't know too. Rimas has kindly uploaded the file on Pootle [2], creating a new project for several languages for the beginning. Currently, en_GB fr hu ko nl oc pt_BR ru zh_CN . Those are the 7 languages for which libo33 project is fully localized plus hu and nl. The issue we meet is that the strings appears as needing review instead of being empty. If other team wants to give a try, please follow the same process as for the extensions project, post on the mailing list and Rimas (big thanks to him :) will take care of your request. Please, follow up on the l10n list for the moment, we will settle a more precise workflow once we have solved the issued that may raised and that we are sure most (I know we miss an offline tool currently for Mac translators) of the needs to work quietly and efficiently on the documentation translation. Thanks for your help in improving the process :) [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/wordforge2/ [2] http://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/doc_test/ Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.orgl10n%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Sincerely, by Cheng-Chia Tseng -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Rimas, We have been looking into this for a while. We tried to use it to translate some text books. We were considering integrating it Odf2Xliff in WordForge, but in the toolkit it has old (2009) known bugs that have not been solved. We need to find another solution. We have looked into it, same as other filters that are not 100% correct, but in this case it is not easy to solve, given the way ODF files are built. You might have an in-line tag that is a reference to an internal tag of the document, that finally might come out to be just marking text as bold, but you have to do a recursive analysis to get there.. not obvious... and then you have to build it back when returning to the original translated text. Cheers, Javier Rimas Kudelis wrote: Hi, 2010.12.27 10:37, Javier Sola rašė: The ODF2XLIFF filters in both translate toolkit and WordForge are broken. They ignore some strings from the source (they do not go into the XLIFF files) in which there is mark-up. They can be used only for plain text without any markup, and even them segmentation is not very good. There are also other problems with them. I-tools does not have enough working tools either. Are you sure? There were plenty of placeholders in the file exported by Sophie. To me, it looks like most of the problem is actually in Pootle itself, because it simply ignores XML tags in the translatable string. By the way, I haven't really seen the original document before conversion, but I wonder how odf2xliff actually split the file into strings. In my opinion, splitting by anything less than a paragraph (or maybe even a chapter) reduces flexibility and may be undesired, no? IMO, localization of documentation and help, unlike that of UI, is a bit more creative task, and to better convey the idea, it may sometimes be desirable to shuffle sentences, and perhaps even entire paragraphs, around. Could anyone comment on that? Rimas -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Sophie, I have just one question regarding the document you used: 2010/12/26 Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com: Hi all, [...] I've worked on the first chapter of the OOoAuthors guide for beginners. I used WordForge filters [1] to convert the file from .odt (ODF file format) to .xlf (XLIFF file format). Both are standards, so it should be easier to have a good conversion. Several tools manage off line translation for Xliff file format, like WordForge or OmegaT, there may be others I don't know too. Did you use the OOo version or the file, that was already adapted to LibO? The latter can be found in the tdf wiki on this page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation Chapter 1 is considered to be finished, so it is already offered as pdf as well. ;) I just noticed some paragraphs, that weren't in the LibO version like the explanation that OpenOffice is a trademark owned by someone else and so on So, if we were to use Pootle for translation I think it would be useful to use the already adapted file as our sourcefile. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Javier, Is there a chance, that you can offer either the Source code of WordForge (so that I can use configure, make, make install) or a rpm package of WordForge? I was looking into installing alien to convert deb into rpm but with all the dependencies (I don't have my computer set up for any development stuff) the download will take a few days (I have a really crappy internet connection). Thanks in advance. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi all, As promised, I'm going on with the tests concerning the ability to use Pootle in the translation workflow for documentation. As you may know, Pootle is able to handle very large projects now thanks to the great work the team has provided. There is all the tools needed for the translation process, but also you can assign task and objectives to a member or a team. I've worked on the first chapter of the OOoAuthors guide for beginners. I used WordForge filters [1] to convert the file from .odt (ODF file format) to .xlf (XLIFF file format). Both are standards, so it should be easier to have a good conversion. Several tools manage off line translation for Xliff file format, like WordForge or OmegaT, there may be others I don't know too. Rimas has kindly uploaded the file on Pootle [2], creating a new project for several languages for the beginning. Currently, en_GB fr hu ko nl oc pt_BR ru zh_CN . Those are the 7 languages for which libo33 project is fully localized plus hu and nl. The issue we meet is that the strings appears as needing review instead of being empty. If other team wants to give a try, please follow the same process as for the extensions project, post on the mailing list and Rimas (big thanks to him :) will take care of your request. Please, follow up on the l10n list for the moment, we will settle a more precise workflow once we have solved the issued that may raised and that we are sure most (I know we miss an offline tool currently for Mac translators) of the needs to work quietly and efficiently on the documentation translation. Thanks for your help in improving the process :) [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/wordforge2/ [2] http://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/doc_test/ Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translating ODF files on Pootle
Hi Rimas, 2010/12/26 Rimas Kudelis r...@akl.lt: Hi Sigrid, 2010.12.26 19:40, Sigrid Carrera rašė: I would like to test the process for de - if that is possible. :) de enabled. Thank you. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
