Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
Hello Robin and all other lacefriends, It's my understanding that copying pages for use in a class was covered under the fair use clause of copyright. In other words, it would not be a violation of copyright to use patterns from published books. Of course, that may vary in other countries. It is not so really clear and because for some of us happened that they found their own designs with another name some people are meanwhile a bit critical. Some years ago a lawyer told me if the name of the origin person and the source is written on the sheet and if you don't asked for more than the price of the copy (in our country not so much private copier exist, we go to the copy-shop) it is allowed. But some book-writer don't like this. It is a difficult thing. And I know that the DKV try to find an answer for this problem. Greetings Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
In a message dated 24/05/2005 12:25:27 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Robin and all other lacefriends, It's my understanding that copying pages for use in a class was covered under the fair use clause of copyright. In other words, it would not be a violation of copyright to use patterns from published books. Of course, that may vary in other countries. It is not so really clear and because for some of us happened that they found their own designs with another name some people are meanwhile a bit critical. Some years ago a lawyer told me if the name of the origin person and the source is written on the sheet and if you don't asked for more than the price of the copy (in our country not so much private copier exist, we go to the copy-shop) it is allowed. But some book-writer don't like this. It is a difficult thing. And I know that the DKV try to find an answer for this problem. Greetings Ilske Apologies for quoting the whole of the email but I wanted to put my reply in context. Last year, during our last foray into copyright law, I contacted the UK Patent's office about the copyright on lace patterns within the UK. They were very helpful and agreed with me that the fact that you have to photocopy your lacebook in order to make the design puts us in a very different position to most other book users. Think about it - If we want to work our way through a book of patterns we need to photocopy the pattern (probably about 45% of the book which already takes us over what is normally allowed) - then, we are often encouraged to copy the diagram of the pattern and enlarge it so that we can work from it - so by the time we've done it all we could have copied about 75% of the book. But, and this is the biggy ... we have bought the book and by buying it have entered into a contract which allows us to copy the patterns for OUR OWN use. Copying pages for class, under UK Law is a violation of the copyright which allows us to make copies for our OWN use - i.e. that we make the item not that we are using them to teach from. Now US Law is different as a ruling has now been made. According to the Copyright Handbook by Stephen Fishman, with deals with US Copyright law: Fair use of out of print works The drafters of the Copyright Act and the Supreme Court have suggested that a user may have more justification for reproducing a work without permission if it is out of print and unavailable for purchase through normal channels. (Harper Row v. Nation Enterprises, 471 U.S. 539 (1985).) Thus, most courts give users more leeway when they quote from or photocopy out-of-print works. But this does not mean that any amount of material from out-of-print works may be used without permission. The advice that I was given in the UK for out of print work is very interesting as I was told that the Copyright law protects against the copying of a work. The right lasts for the life of the author, and for 70 years after the author's death. In addition, in the UK, the publisher also has a right in the layout etc. of the book, which lasts for 25 years. If a work is out of print, this does not negate the copyright, or the duration given above. In the UK there are limited exceptions to copyright, for fair dealing purposes such as private research, private study, criticism, review and news reporting etc, but these are limited in scope, and will not allow the copying of large sections of a book etc. If the author has not indicated to what extent she may or may not allow copies of the work to be made, it may well be that making a single copy for your own use would not be considered fair dealing under the law. Your actions could then constitute an infringement of copyright. This advice corroborates the position that the publishers Ruth Bean took over the pricking for Miss Channer's mat - which caused this debate to happen last time. They were saying that whether or not Miss Channer was dead, or her original book out of copyright, by redrafting the pricking they now had copyright over the pricking as issued - i.e. the layout as mentioned above. There is a worry that with some of our favourite designers stopping from producing patterns that we could be loosing patterns - but there are two issues here to remember - 1) there are more patterns out there than we could make in a lifetime and 2) once you have finished with a pattern and your pricking then you can always give it on to another lacemaker to have and keep. Such sequential ownership of patterns is not an issue as you relinquish rights to it with passing it on. However, to give the pricking and not the original pattern is an infringement of copyright as you have the ability to make another pricking from the pattern. Multiple copies of a pricking from one book is infringement of copyright so by using a pattern
Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
It's my understanding that copying pages for use in a class was covered under the fair use clause of copyright. In other words, it would not be a violation of copyright to use patterns from published books. Of course, that may vary in other countries. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA (formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to know, which patterns/prickings you use in the courses you teach? Do you draw your own prickings and your own course? (Copyright reasons) or what could I use? - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
I had thought that it was only fair use to copy pages for use in the class if the pupils owned the book in question. Is that not the case here in USA? Sue Babbs - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lace@arachne.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes It's my understanding that copying pages for use in a class was covered under the fair use clause of copyright. In other words, it would not be a violation of copyright to use patterns from published books. Of course, that may vary in other countries. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA (formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
At 05:26 PM 5/23/2005, you wrote: I had thought that it was only fair use to copy pages for use in the class if the pupils owned the book in question. Is that not the case here in USA? That was my understanding, also. We require each student to own the book when we have students. The book owner can copy a pattern for her own use but not to pass out to other people, without permission of the author. That's why some people prefer to draft their own beginning patterns. If you own the pattern, you can give it out to as many people as you want to. Each student should have a good, basic reference book, anyway. That way the student can work independently if or when needed. We do use one of the less expensive books so the cost is reasonable to get started. The cost of all the supplies to get started is less than two tickets to a stage play in Portland, or a professional ball game, or dinner for two at an upscale restaurant. Our local guild has beginner equipment to borrow (with a deposit) for someone who wants to start in a hurry. But we do expect them to get a book for themselves. The book we use is usually available on eBay or a book seller web page at a discount if someone wants to pinch pennies. (I try to keep one on hand at all times since we no longer have a book source in this town.) The choir at church has to buy a copy of a song for each choir member. They can't buy one and copy it for the rest of the choir. The local live theatre has to buy a script for each member of the cast instead of making copies. So.the same thing applies to lace books. You can copy for your own use, but not for other people. Sorry, teachers. Draft your own patterns, or have your students each get a book. Thats my understanding of the copyright law in the USA. Alice in Oregon -- with a spell of summer this week. And waiting for notification of IOLI conference classes. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
Dear Arachneans, finally I decided to advertise a beginners course in bobbin lace in autumn. I would like to know, which patterns/prickings you use in the courses you teach? Do you draw your own prickings and your own course? (Copyright reasons) or what could I use? I don't think it is realistic to ask the beginners before they even have a first go to by a printed course book. Thanks for your help. Martina in Germany - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
I'm emerging from serious lurkdom, hereg I took an online bobbin lace class a couple of years ago from Bjarne, who, I think, also lurks on this list. If I recall correctly, he used some of his own designs, as well as some historical ones. I also had access to some books on bobbin lace that were relatively inexpensive and relatively easily available, at least here in the US. I don't have any idea what would be available in Germany, or in Europe-in-general, let alone things that are oriented for non-English speakers (I've only got two non-English lace books [both Danish] and even they've got some English text). If there's a relatively inexpensive book available to you, perhaps you could use that? Or internet sources, if your students are likely to have internet access? Or perhaps patterns that are copyright free? It also occurs to me that perhaps you could make arrangements with local museums, if you have any that have lace in their collections. Sometimes, they'll allow things for educational purposes that they wouldn't otherwise. Most of the beginner-oriented stuff I've seen here in the US seems to start folks off with some form of Torchon lace, probably because it's relatively coarse and easy to learn. Starting with work on short bits appropriate for use as bookmarks, and working through simple edgings to more complex ones Hope this helps Sue in Montana (NW corner of the US), where she doesn't have nearly enough time for her lace making, because she made the mistake of discovering how fun it is to spin and weave her own fabrics;o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Arachneans, finally I decided to advertise a beginners course in bobbin lace in autumn. I would like to know, which patterns/prickings you use in the courses you teach? Do you draw your own prickings and your own course? (Copyright reasons) or what could I use? I don't think it is realistic to ask the beginners before they even have a first go to by a printed course book. Thanks for your help. Martina in Germany - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Pattern for bobbin lace classes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes finally I decided to advertise a beginners course in bobbin lace in autumn. I would like to know, which patterns/prickings you use in the courses you teach? I use my own patterns, or those for which I have obtained permission to use (in which case the students are asked to buy their own copy). Does the German Lace Guild produce anything in the same way that The Lace Guild in the UK does? The guild's book Introduction to Torchon Lace is less than five pounds, so I don't have any problems with asking students to buy it. At least then they have a back up (along with the handouts I have produced on various techniques) for working at home. You will, I assume, need something with the text in German! Sorting out your own paperwork in advance, and planning the basis of your course (which may or may not be thoroughly revised after the first session with the students) at least gives you a chance to plan what you are intending to teach them, to work out what you can reasonably expect of them (remember they will all learn and work at differing speeds!) and give you an idea of what you need to take with you (if the class is to be away from home) or get out ready on the day. It is also a good idea to consider insurance - you will need liability cover, and if you are teaching at home, consider whether this has any implications on your household insurance and any restrictions on lease/rental agreements etc. In the UK we can insure our classes through the Guild, as long as we are Guild members. -- Jane Partridge -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 - Release Date: 22/05/2005 - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
