[lace] Re: question re: terminology

[Tamara P Duvall]

On Aug 11, 2008, at 17:39, Jane O'Connor wrote:

'fond de vierge '   We have figured out it means the background 
or bottom is done in

virgin stitch. What is the virgin stitch?


English roseground. I think -- but am not 100% siure -- that it's the 
roseground where all the stitches (the 4 of the rose and the 4 
conbecting ones)  are CT (or TC, depending on which method yu're using)



Possibly roseground but if so, why
in the same listing of techniques needed for the pattern have 
rozengrond

listed?


Because rozenground, although it literally translates to roseground 
actually means honeycomb in English. The same problem comes up in 
Danish, IIRC. I was never quite sure whether the rose in 
(non-English) roseground referred to a single stitch (CTT,P,CTT), or 
to the series of them forming the ground (missing evey other pinhole, 
on diagonal).


Coene's dictionary, BTW, can be extremely frustrating on this point. 
Sometimes, it seems to use literal (dictionary) tanslations. Other 
times, it uses true *lacemaking* ones...

--
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)

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[lace] Re: Question of terminology

[Tamara P Duvall]

Gentle Spiders,

First, a big thank you to everyone who responded -- on list and 
privately. Obviously, I should have avoided using the term whole 
stitch and stuck simply to the description of the ground: CTCT, p, 
CTCT. I'm very much aware of the reigning confusion regarding that 
stitch (CTCT) and its names (whole, double, whole-and-twist) :)


But I thought that, perhaps, the ground did have a name that everyone 
agreed on; afterall, the CT (or TC) is called half stitch 
everywhere...


On Dec 16, 2007, at 17:45, Adele Shaak wrote:


Tamara wrote:
So here goes a question: What do you call a ground which is 
constructed

as follows:

Whole Stitch (CTCT, or TCTC), Pin, Whole Stitch...




And Bev replied:

I call it CTCT, pin, CTCT ground  ...   ;)\


I'm with Bev. And I've had at least one teacher who also describes her 
patterns with C and T rather than defining stitches.


I agree too, in general, which is why, whenever I use a term -- half 
stitch, cloth stitch, honecomb stitch, whole stitch -- I always follow 
it up with a breakdown into the C and T terms, to clarify. But not 
everyone does, so you have to know the other names as well.


For myself, I switched to cloth stitch from the whole stitch for 
the CTC sequence (I learnt lacemaking from an Oz book, which used 
English terms), when my 11yr old asked: why do you call a two-movement 
stitch a 'half-stitch' and a three-movement one a 'whole stitch'? It's 
mathematically incorrect. Since he was a math genius, I accepted his 
pronouncement and the CTCT sequence became the 'whole' :)


And, still later, I switched to using the C and T terms for everything; 
the ground in Point Ground is CTTT, not 'half stitch and two twists'. 
But that's when I'm working on my pillow and counting to myself. When I 
talk to other people, I try to use the language they might be familiar 
with and many people do remember names better than sequences, 
especially *long* sequences (I'm among those. Probably one of the 
reasons I never could get the hang of the binary system of writing 
numbers).


--
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)

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