RE: [lace] Mechlin and lace terminology

[Lorelei Halley]

Nancy

I only omitted Valenciennes because it produces another whole set of problems.
Mechlin/Flanders and Flemish/Brussels/Duchesse were enough, for the time
being. Let me recover my brain’s full function and I may revisit that aspect
of the problem.



And, among your other points, the problem of gradual changes from one type to
another, there is also the problem of wild, uncontained, irreverent creativity
which leads some lace designers to mix styles and techniques. It drives me
crazy.



Also, having just reviewed my own pinboards, with lots of examples, I now have
to admit that Mechlin ground was used in the mid 1700s in straight laces. I
base this on the ratio of ground to motif. If that ratio is 50/50 the lace is
from c. 1750, give or take a decade.



Also I just revised some of my pinboards, and separated out the Revival Era
and modern examples from the older ones. So the links I just posted don’t
work. But these should.



Part laces

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/early-brussels-flemish-milanese/

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/brussels-point-de-angleterre-brabant/

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/duchesse-bobbin-lace/



Straight laces

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/flanders-and-old-mechlin-antique/

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/flanders-revival-era-and-modern/



From: Nancy Neff [mailto:nancy.a.n...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:42 PM
To: Lorelei Halley <lhal...@bytemeusa.com>
Cc: Arachne <lace@arachne.com>
Subject: Re: [lace] Mechlin and lace terminology



Lorelei,



It may be because I am both a collector and a lacemaker, but I don't see that
the two groups differ in what they want to use a name for--to be a short-hand
for some set of data.

...

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Re: [lace] Mechlin and lace terminology

[Nancy Neff]

Lorelei,

It may be because I am both a collector and a lacemaker, but I don't see
that the two groups differ in what they want to use a name for--to be a
short-hand for some set of data. The data that you as a lacemaker want to
know is the same as what I think collectors want to know--techniques, date,
location of manufacture, materials, and what characteristics enable one to
know date and origin. The fundamental question is which of these data do
you want to base a name on?  The more distinguishing features you use as
the basis for identifying a "kind of lace"--i.e., what one puts a unique
name to--the finer the categories are going to be and the more names will
be in play. Plus you have the difficulty of naming lace that is a
duplicate, made yesterday, of an antique piece, since I think both
lacemakers and collectors would consider the later copy to be different
from the original, however close to identical the two are.

My second observation is that the terminology problem really arises from
the fact that there are few discontinuities in the history of lace; for any
two related kinds of lace, one can usually find examples that are
intermediate between the two, or combine features from one with features
from the other. Any terminology is going to have problems with items that
fall on a spectrum or, worse, vary in multiple dimensions as lace does.

I suspect that my solution for my own use will be to base a set of names on
only the techniques used in the lace, and apply adjectives to those names
as needed to communicate the other metadata, especially date, because
usually all the rest are inferred from techniques and design. However, I
will withhold that suggestion as well as specific comment on your
classification until I have found my old notes and thought more about it
all again, since this revisits something I attempted to do about 10 years
ago (except to ask whether you meant to exclude Valenciennes or is that an
oversight?).

Many thanks to Devon, I think it was, for opening this particularly
interesting can of worms!

Nancy A. Neff
Connecticut, USA

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Lorelei Halley 
wrote:

> We have a constant problem with terminology, partly because we comprise 2
> different groups of people - collectors and lace makers. ... As
> I understand it, the collectors want a name they can use to reference a
> particular piece in a way that gives collectors an idea what to expect. I
> would like to hear from collectors on this issue, particularly what they
> consider the purpose of a name for a lace. ...
>
> The problem comes in when us lacemakers get into the conversation. My
> perspective is always that of a lace maker - what techniques are used in
> this piece, what do I have to know to reproduce this. I also would like
> terminology to refer to time, to distinguish antique from modern designs of
> that type, and to distinguish century or half century for antique laces...

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