Re: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

Thank you Laurie, and thank you everyone for your responses! Seems I had a 
right to be suspicious.
Best,
Elena 

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Re: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Laurie Waters]

See the piece I wrote on LaceNews a few years ago, at
https://lacenews.net/2011/08/24/music-the-bonelace-weavers-song/

It is Part 1, because I actually interviewed  Roy Harris about this, and
will write up my notes in a second article soon.

Laurie 

___

Laurie Waters

505-412-2873

lswaters...@comcast.net  ,
lacen...@gmail.com  

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RE: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Elena
You are right to question Thomas Wright's assertion. "Bone lace" is just 
another name for bobbin lace. "Pillow lace" is another term that is used 
sometimes. This is an example of how careful one must be in using any 
statements by authors of that era. Many years ago I gave some attention to 
Palliser's opinions, but I no longer even do that. Levey and Earnshaw are just 
about the only ones I really trust. But Earnshaw is better on needle lace than 
on bobbin lace. The real issue is whether the author in question has figured 
out some way of reaching outside the lace itself to pinpoint dates and 
geographical origin. An example of this is Levey's use of weavers' sample books 
(when they have dates attached to the book or to the samples) as a way of 
dating a design.
Lorelei Halley

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of Elena 
Kanagy-Loux
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:43 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] Question about early English lace

Hello all!

I am researching the development of the lace industry at the moment, and I have 
a fairly extensive bibliography, but there is one reference that I have only 
seen in one place.

In Thomas Wright’s “Romance of the Lace Pillow,” on page 8 he makes a 
distinction between bone lace as being finer, and bobbin lace as being coarser. 
My other trusted sources (Levey, Palliser, Earnshaw, etc) make no distinction, 
and my understanding has always been that bone lace is just an early name for 
bobbin lace. What say you all? Are there any other sources to support this or 
should I take it with a grain of salt?

Thank you!
Best,
Elena

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Re: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Sue Harvey]

My apologies for not trimming previous post
Sue M Harvey

Sent from my iPad

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Re: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Sue Harvey]

Thank you Brenda for that,  I found out about many things concerning the Queens 
wardrobe it made fascinating reading also made me very curious to know more 
I  shall be looking into that . 
Sue M Harvey
Norfolk UK 

Sent from my iPad

> On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:57, Brenda Paternoster  
> wrote:
> 
> What Thomas Wright actually wrote is
> ‘ "…bone-lace it is named, because first made with bone (since wooden)
> bobbins.”
> 
> In the wardrobe accounts of Queen Elizabeth’s day the terms “bone lace”
> (which was made with a fine thread) and “bobbin lace” (which was made with
> a coarser thread) often occur - “bone,” however more frequently than
> “bobbin.”
> 
> In the first quoted sentence he appears to be saying that bone lace was just
> an earlier name for bobbin lace.
> In the second sentence he’s saying that the term bone lace occurs more
> frequently than the term bobbin lace and although he says that bobbin lace is
> coarser he doesn’t provide a source to corroborate that statement.
> 
> Maybe looking at the wardrobe accounts of Queen Elizabeth I would shed light
> on it.
> 
> A couple of interesting websites about Queen Elizabeth I’s
> http://www.elizabethancostume.net/blog/warrants-101/
> 
> and
> http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cyte/ElizabethI
> 
> 
> BTW the references in the second website which begin PRO LC 5/  are old
> references, they should now be TNA LC 5/
> PRO = Public record office   which is now known as The National Archives (TNA)
> at Kew, London
> LC = Lord Chamberlain’s Department and 5= Great Wardrobe
> 
> Just looking at one of the items on TNA Discovery database
> http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C213973
> 
> shows that it’s a public record available for public viewing, but not
> digitised or online so it would be necessary to visit TNA in person to see the
> original.
> 
>> 
>> In Thomas Wright’s “Romance of the Lace Pillow,” on page 8 he makes a
> distinction between bone lace as being finer, and bobbin lace as being
> coarser. My other trusted sources (Levey, Palliser, Earnshaw, etc) make no
> distinction, and my understanding has always been that bone lace is just an
> early name for bobbin lace. What say you all?
> 
> Brenda in Allhallows
> 
> paternos...@appleshack.com
> www.brendapaternoster.co.uk
> 
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> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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Re: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Brenda Paternoster]

What Thomas Wright actually wrote is
‘ "…bone-lace it is named, because first made with bone (since wooden)
bobbins.”

In the wardrobe accounts of Queen Elizabeth’s day the terms “bone lace”
(which was made with a fine thread) and “bobbin lace” (which was made with
a coarser thread) often occur - “bone,” however more frequently than
“bobbin.”

In the first quoted sentence he appears to be saying that bone lace was just
an earlier name for bobbin lace.
In the second sentence he’s saying that the term bone lace occurs more
frequently than the term bobbin lace and although he says that bobbin lace is
coarser he doesn’t provide a source to corroborate that statement.

Maybe looking at the wardrobe accounts of Queen Elizabeth I would shed light
on it.

A couple of interesting websites about Queen Elizabeth I’s
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/blog/warrants-101/

and
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cyte/ElizabethI


BTW the references in the second website which begin PRO LC 5/  are old
references, they should now be TNA LC 5/
PRO = Public record office   which is now known as The National Archives (TNA)
at Kew, London
LC = Lord Chamberlain’s Department and 5= Great Wardrobe

Just looking at one of the items on TNA Discovery database
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C213973

shows that it’s a public record available for public viewing, but not
digitised or online so it would be necessary to visit TNA in person to see the
original.

>
> In Thomas Wright’s “Romance of the Lace Pillow,” on page 8 he makes a
distinction between bone lace as being finer, and bobbin lace as being
coarser. My other trusted sources (Levey, Palliser, Earnshaw, etc) make no
distinction, and my understanding has always been that bone lace is just an
early name for bobbin lace. What say you all?

Brenda in Allhallows

paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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Re: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Kim Davis]

Elena,

 I would take this with a grain of salt.  Some of the inventories that
actually mention bone lace are likely to have been metal laces, which were
certainly not "fine" in terms of diameter of the thread.

Kim


In Thomas Wright’s “Romance of the Lace Pillow,” on page 8 he makes a
> distinction between bone lace as being finer, and bobbin lace as being
> coarser. My other trusted sources (Levey, Palliser, Earnshaw, etc) make no
> distinction, and my understanding has always been that bone lace is just an
> early name for bobbin lace. What say you all? Are there any other sources
> to support this or should I take it with a grain of salt?
>

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