Re: [lace] Tallies
Hi Dianne and everyone the cushion bit sounds like the ones referred to as pumpkin seed - leaf-shaped tallies with the effect of ridges at the edges. Check out the French methods (e.g. Cluny lace) of making leaf-tallies. One way to achieve this appearance is to tension outwards firmly, when the weaver has completed each pass. The middle passive, because it swings back and forth (moves out of the way accordingly), is known as the pendulum. On 10/29/10, Dianne Derbyshire diannederbysh...@yahoo.com wrote: she has seen some that look as though they have a cushion bit in the middle and wants to know how they are made. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Tallies
Hi Bev Thank you. I think that is what she was referring to. Kind regards Dianne --- On Fri, 29/10/10, bev walker walker.b...@gmail.com wrote: From: bev walker walker.b...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [lace] Tallies To: Dianne Derbyshire diannederbysh...@yahoo.com Cc: lace@arachne.com Date: Friday, 29 October, 2010, 17:30 Hi Dianne and everyone the cushion bit sounds like the ones referred to as pumpkin seed - leaf-shaped tallies with the effect of ridges at the edges. Check out the French methods (e.g. Cluny lace) of making leaf-tallies. One way to achieve this appearance is to tension outwards firmly, when the weaver has completed each pass. The middle passive, because it swings back and forth (moves out of the way accordingly), is known as the pendulum. On 10/29/10, Dianne Derbyshire diannederbysh...@yahoo.com wrote: she has seen some that look as though they have a cushion bit in the middle and wants to know how they are made. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Tallies
Hi Dianne: I went through this a few years ago. I saw the pumpkin-seed tallies and liked them, too, and now I make them all the time. The thread path is, of course, the same as with any other way of making tallies; it is only the method that creates the distinctive look. Set Up: threads: 1 2 3 4. Twist, cross, in the usual way, and the thread that is now in the 2 position will be your weaver. TIP: make the weaver about 1 cm longer than the other threads - you'll have to keep lengthening it as you weave - so you don't accidentally pull it when you're doing the crosses. Now: with the LH pair only (LH passive plus weaver), twist, twist, cross. The weaver is now in the 3 position. Hold 12 on the left and hold 4 on the right, and pat gently on the weaver to tension. Now, with the RH pair (which now contains the weaver), twist, twist, cross. Weaver is now in the 2 position. Hold 3 4 on the right, and 1 on the left, and pat gently on the weaver to tension. Repeat. The secret is holding the centre passive thread firmly with either the right or the left passive every time you tension. That makes a tight turn on the edge and a wide cushion in the middle. Hope this helps. Adele North Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) On 2010-10-29, at 9:15 AM, Dianne Derbyshire wrote: Hi Thank you to the people who have contacted me about tallies. The person in question wants to make tallies (I presume leaf). She has been making lace for over 30 years so she can make the tallies in Beds and Bucks but she has seen some that look as though they have a cushion bit in the middle and wants to know how they are made. Hope this helps. Regards Dianne Derbyshire - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Tallies in 17th c lace (was: 17th century Genoese lace on Ebay)
Thanks, Tamara! That's a lot of useful information--I appreciate your taking the time. As I said to Sharon, I certainly still have a lot to learn! :-) --Nancy Nancy A. Neff Connecticut, USA From: Tamara P Duvall t...@rockbridge.net I didn't think the 17th century lace had leaves?? Yes it did. Leaves -- and other woven shapes, like triangles -- appear even earlier... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] tallies and leaves
Hello Brenda, Sue and everyone else. Thanks for the comments on continental way of making leaves and tallies. Probably just me being silly, but when I tried both methods in thick string, I could not tell why they were different. So I am off to my pilow and have another go. Agnes Boddington - dreary Elloughton UK www.sixpennybobbins.co.uk Brenda Paternoster wrote: Agnes I think you may be thinking of the continental method of crossing the two centre bobbins, two twists oon the left hand pair, cross the middle two then two twists on the right hand pair but whichever way you handle the bobbins it's down to tensioning the two outer passives correctly. Brenda - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] tallies and leaves
Hi Agnes, The tallies aren't different. The techniques are different but the end result is always the same - the threads follow the same path. I suppose some lacemakers find the continental technique easier because you shouldn't need to shorten any of the bobbins. I can make good tallies using the continental method, but I prefer the technique Christine Springett taught me. I think I enjoy a moment of mental rest while I take time to shorten the three passive bobbins. Sally Farmington - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] tallies and leaves
Agnes Boddington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ages ago someone showed me an easier way of making tallies and leaves, but I think I wrote it down wrongly as I just end up with a kind of plait-gone-wrong.--- It sounds like the twist, twist, cross method. If that's what you wrote down, you'd probably assume the twists were using all 4 bobbins. Instead the twist is right-over-left only between the worker and the nearest outside passive. At the beginning of every movement, the worker is second from the edge (in other words, one edge passive and the center passive on one side of it and one edge passive on the other side of it). The worker and the adjacent edge passive go Twist, Twist, which puts the worker back where it was. Then the worker goes Cross with the middle passive, which puts the worker just inside the as-yet-unused edge passive. With tension on the outer passives, tension the worker gently. Now the worker twists twice with the as-yet-unused edge passive and crosses with the middle passive. The worker is back to being just inside the first-used outer passive. Tension again. Hope this helps, Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] tallies and leaves
On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:33, Agnes Boddington wrote: Thanks for the comments on continental way of making leaves and tallies. Probably just me being silly, but when I tried both methods in thick string, I could not tell why they were different. The leaves themselves are not any different; they aren't supposed to be. There are at least 4 different methods of making leaves that I've tried and all of them produce similar (if not identical) leaf-tallies. The difference is in how you think while making them. I like the method shown in Rosalibre (I learn it first here, from Tess Parrish, who learnt it from someone in Canada, I think. This list is *fantastic* for passing info) best. That's because, instead of having to think over under, over under -- which I had trouble keeping track of -- this method reduces the procedure to terms which are already familiar: Cross and Twist. The sequence (one full pass of the worker thread) is: TT on the right, C in the middle, TT on the left, C in the middle. There's another continental way of making tallies, BTW. It's used in Cluny.The teacher tried to teach me how to make those during the workshop in Montreal but, unfortunately, I couldn't afford to have a chiropractor as a stand-by at all times :) The method does have certain advantages, though, as it allows you to use more than 3 passive threads (several on each side, a single in the middle) and keeping them *all* under tension. -- Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/ Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] tallies and leaves
Thanks to all who helped me get myself sorted on the leaves. Managed to do two, then realized I should have brought in two new pairs, only added one, so am now undoing the leaves again. Good learning curve, I suppose. Should know how to do leaves by the time I finish my small Beds circle! Agnes Boddington - Elloughton UK Tamara P Duvall wrote: On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:33, Agnes Boddington wrote: Thanks for the comments on continental way of making leaves and tallies. Probably just me being silly, but when I tried both methods in thick string, I could not tell why they were different. The leaves themselves are not any different; they aren't supposed to be. There are at least 4 different methods of making leaves that I've tried and all of them produce similar (if not identical) leaf-tallies. The difference is in how you think while making them. I like the method shown in Rosalibre (I learn it first here, from Tess Parrish, who learnt it from someone in Canada, I think. This list is *fantastic* for passing info) best. That's because, instead of having to think over under, over under -- which I had trouble keeping track of -- this method reduces the procedure to terms which are already familiar: Cross and Twist. The sequence (one full pass of the worker thread) is: TT on the right, C in the middle, TT on the left, C in the middle. There's another continental way of making tallies, BTW. It's used in Cluny.The teacher tried to teach me how to make those during the workshop in Montreal but, unfortunately, I couldn't afford to have a chiropractor as a stand-by at all times :) The method does have certain advantages, though, as it allows you to use more than 3 passive threads (several on each side, a single in the middle) and keeping them *all* under tension. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] tallies and leaves
Agnes I think you may be thinking of the continental method of crossing the two centre bobbins, two twists oon the left hand pair, cross the middle two then two twists on the right hand pair but whichever way you handle the bobbins it's down to tensioning the two outer passives correctly. Brenda On 31 May 2008, at 09:47, Agnes Boddington wrote: Hi all Ages ago someone showed me an easier way of making tallies and leaves, but I think I wrote it down wrongly as I just end up with a kind of plait-gone-wrong. Any help out there? Agnes Boddington - Ellougthon UK (www.sixpennybobbins.co.uk) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brenda in Allhallows, Kent http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Tallies, leaves
Sorry ladies that it has been so long since this email question. I have been in hospital and recouperating. The proceedure messed up my balance and I couldn't even look at the computer screen. It has got better little by little, still have to take care moving and turning. I couldn't touch my lace for ages and so I have spent the last 4 or 5 days getting back into it, doing a little project for my daughters stepdaughter and the second strip of garter lace for my niece. One is nearly finished but the garter is bound to take about another 3 or 4 weeks. I have so little experience of Russian lace but I will tell you my thinking and understanding of tallies and things. Tallies as far as I am aware are square features, I have used them in bucks point. Leaves I have done in the bedfordshire style of lace and some pieces which are a combination of Roseground, some sort of other group, ws, hs or dieppe. the only Russian piece I have done is the rocking horse and using 2 pairs of bobbins for each of 4 leaves, doing a windmill crossing and then the other half of the leaves to make a flower, or just seperate leaves depending on the pattern. After I had done it my teacher explained the Russian way, doing each leave and going up and then down using the same pair and sewing into the centre (I hope you understand what I mean here). Sue T Dorset UK I did not realize Russian tallies are made differently to Beds. ones. How do you make them 'differently'? Surely one thread weaving over and under the other 3 threads is all the same. Some tallies have square ends, and some have pointy ends, that's all! I'll be curious to see Sue's explanation myself, because it's a puzzle to me, too... My own original response was: the proportions are different: Beds leaf-tallies are skinnier, so they look longer, while the Russian ones are plumper, so they look shorter (square tallies would be the same, I think. I can't, off-hand, remember seeing square tallies in Russian, though). But then I started checking, looking at photos of older laces, which were made before the globalization of the lace techniques. Laces made before the lacemakers of Russian Tape had easy access to the pictures of Beds lace and vice versa; pictures which might have influenced the lacemakers' eye as to the -- aimed for -- perfection or ideal... - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Tallies/ Leaves
Hi All, When I started making lace - far too many years ago! - I was shown both the 'on the pillow' method and the 'in hand' method of leaves. I went for the former - mainly because the tutor also told me that, when the leaves are done 'in hand' it is more difficult to keep to a symmetrical shape, as one tends to favour one side, so the leaves turn out fatter on one side. I didn't try the method for long enough to find out, as I went for the 'pillow' method - but I do wonder how true that is! Carol - in a sunny/snowy/haily/rainy Suffolk UK - it just can't make up its mind!!! Subject: Re: [lace] Tallies/ Leaves I have seen a couple of people work the leaves and tallies in their hands. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Tallies/ Leaves
So, dear Clay, please tell all of us--How do you make a leaf and how do you make a tally? Barbara Having JUST taken a class with Christine Springett with the specific goal to learn to make a respectable leaf, (mission accomplished!), I can report that while I initially struggled to make a leaf the same way I make tallies, she encouraged me, saying that if I could do it that way, she would not tell me no. She added that once a beautiful leaf is made, no one will ever know which way you used. But my efforts were not rewarded until I caved in and worked the leaf like she demonstrated. So for me, a tallie is made one way, a leaf another. Clay Clay Blackwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Tallies/ Leaves
I have seen a couple of people work the leaves and tallies in their hands. One lady with tiny little hands and severe rheumatoid arthritis couldn't do that so found another way. I cannot hold them and work with them like that but have managed the in the pillow version fairly successfully over the last 3 years or so. I was glad I saw it done and I did try. Sue T Dorset UK Thank you all for your replies. How Interesting! I always was told that the fat tallies were Maltese, and the long thin ones were Cluny. Beds people made them to fit the space. I was shown 2 ways of making tallies - on the pillow, and holding the passives in the hand. I tried both ways - and found the hand held way the easiest, so have stuck with that way! No-one ever told me it was the Russian way!! Also, I was taught the continental way - tying a single knot with the 2 outer passives at the end of the tally (leaf tally). It was many years before I found that other people did not do that! I still do it occasionally, - mainly if I have to make multiple leaf tallies all to come to the same point, and, by holding the passives in my hand , I find I need more room to work , so need to make the tallies, and leave them. The knot at the bottom means I can toss them aside, and know they will stay in shape withoug being propped on pins, which will get in the way while I make the next tally. Isn't it great that there is so much variety in techniques etc, - but we all wind up with a similar product!!! This is why Lacemaking is so addictive, I think - there is so much variety, and new/different ideas to come across, and try out! Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 24/02/2006 - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Tallies, international (was: rocking horse)
On 2/26/06, Tamara P Duvall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maltese, Cluny -- since then, which also have the prominent veins in their tallies, so it's nothing to do with Slavic; it's all to do with how you tension the tallies... Bev chimes in with a big YES! It is all about tension. The lovely fat veined leaves are sometimes referred to as 'pumpkin seed leaves' - pne way you can effect them is to firmly tweak the end pair when the weaver is one of the threads of that pair, and have the pairs short on tether, and quite far apart when tensioning. The thumb or another designated finger serves to scoot the centre bobbin back and forth (it, too, has a name...the pendulum bobbin I think). I don't usually make my leaves or tallies in this way, but I taught myself from pictures in a Cluny book, to prove that it could be done (by me). They are most beautiful this way in linen. -- Bev in Sooke BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) Cdn. floral bobbins www.woodhavenbobbins.com bloggin lace at www.looonglace.blogspot.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: [lace] tallies
Hi everyone and Sally who asked regarding: the crescent and circular shaped tallies on page 105 of Bridget Cook's Practical Skills. Have any of you tried these? I've tried the crescent tally ! They are fun to do. Definitely helps control the shape if you incorporate picots on the outer curve. I haven't had a reason to use a circular tally, so can't chime in about that one. However I did try the halfstitch 'flower' started from a circle, pg. 32 (that was fun) :) -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) hoping Sally's 'House with No Heat' becomes the 'House with New Heat' v. soon - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
